Pensioners evicted from their home today!!

votecounts · 21-04-2012 12:48AM

mikemac1 wrote: »

Why is our local TD Joan Collins of Peope before Profit Alliance supporting the Kellys
She was on the radio today

It sort of goes against everything she has ever said about wealth tax and burn the bankers and her usual talk
If I was Mr Kelly's tenant and couldn't pay my rent would she support me?

United Left Alliance - socialism for millionaires and landlords :rolleyes:

This has to be a wind up surely, as no supposed socialist could support those two greedy fcuks

micropig · 21-04-2012 12:51AM

votecounts wrote: »

This has to be a wind up surely, as no supposed socialist could support those two greedy fcuks

They'd jump on any bandwagon going if it means they get a bit of publicity

old_aussie · 21-04-2012 12:56AM

Sorry officer, it was dark, raining and foggy, I didn't see the tent on the road.

NIMAN · 21-04-2012 01:00AM

votecounts wrote: »

This has to be a wind up surely, as no supposed socialist could support those two greedy fcuks

And they shouldn't be supportive, if true socialists.

Interesting reading
http://www.billtormey.ie/2012/02/13/stephen-collins-should-be-professor-of-rational-politics-in-ucd-or-in-university-of-ulster/

Doc Ruby · 21-04-2012 01:19AM

Milk & Honey wrote: »

It is not a legal legitimate reason for eviction in Ireland. The only legal legitimate reason for eviction is because of a court order.
A person who wants his tenant out in order to move in himself has to go through the same termination process as anybody else.

Sorry, it is, and a court order isn't required. You didn't think we had such a strong culture of property ownership for historical reasons, did you? Landlords have huge powers in this country. Its not in the constitution though.

Milk & Honey · 21-04-2012 10:09AM

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Sorry, it is, and a court order isn't required. You didn't think we had such a strong culture of property ownership for historical reasons, did you? Landlords have huge powers in this country. Its not in the constitution though.

It is not in the constitution and the law does not allow it. A couple tried to do just that and were brought to the PRTB and fined €9,000 for their troubles. You do not know what you are talking about. This whole matter was discussed earlier in this thread.
In what law book is this supposed power of a landlord referred to?

mikemac1 · 21-04-2012 10:20AM

votecounts wrote: »

This has to be a wind up surely, as no supposed socialist could support those two greedy fcuks

No windup
Was on another site

Speaking on Classic Hits 4FM, Joan Collins lashed out at the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation (IBRC) and baliffs who evicted landlords Brendan (71) and Asta (63) Kelly from their mansion in Killiney. The millionare couple who went on a property buying splurge during the Celtic tiger amassing 18 properties, became intransigient with IBRC in 2010 and stopped making payments on their €2 million mortgage.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/united-left-alliance/186777-people-before-profit-td-joan-collins-speaks-up-evicted-property-speculators.html

Not sure why People before Profit and the ULA are getting involved here

Sure they were bashing rich speculators before, suddenly they defend them?

philstar · 21-04-2012 10:26AM

mikemac1 wrote: »

Not sure why People before Profit and the ULA are getting involved here

Sure they were bashing rich speculators before, suddenly they defend them?

because they are looking for martyrs for the cause and they stupidly think the kellys of kiliney fit the bill...but they don't

44leto · 21-04-2012 10:32AM

The people before profit are getting involved because its a high profile eviction. Although we are informed Irish people in general, god love us, are not that bright, another proof of this is Sinn Fein making gains in opinion poles when they have no real workable solutions, just sound bites and mass pandering which they know they will never have to impose, because they can't, nor could a government in power.

paddyandy · 21-04-2012 10:46AM

Playing the Media Game ? Out of touch they are ?

Doc Ruby · 21-04-2012 10:52AM

Milk & Honey wrote: »

It is not in the constitution and the law does not allow it. A couple tried to do just that and were brought to the PRTB and fined €9,000 for their troubles. You do not know what you are talking about. This whole matter was discussed earlier in this thread.
In what law book is this supposed power of a landlord referred to?

If you try to evict someone without due process you can land in trouble, of course. But one of the legitimate reasons for an eviction under Irish law is if the landlord needs the house for his own use or that of a relative.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/if_your_landlord_wants_you_to_leave.html
Landlords can terminate a tenancy that has lasted between six months and four years (a Part 4 tenancy) only in the following circumstances:

After 3 and ½ years
If the tenant does not comply with the obligations of the tenancy
If the property is no longer suited to the tenants’ needs (e.g. overcrowded)
If the landlord needs the property for him/herself or for an immediate family member
If the landlord intends to sell the property
If the landlord intends to refurbish the property
If the landlord plans to change the business use of the property (e.g. turn it into offices).

The only reason a court order would be needed in those circumstances is if the tenant decided to try and fight the eviction, which would make no sense, as they would lose anyway and waste plenty of money in the process.

If you're living in local authority or housing association housing, they can evict you for no reason at all:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/local_authority_and_social_housing/notice_to_quit_and_eviction.html

Doc Ruby · 21-04-2012 10:58AM

44leto wrote: »

Although we are informed Irish people in general, god love us, are not that bright

Who is informing us of this?

Milk & Honey · 21-04-2012 11:05AM

Doc Ruby wrote: »

If you try to evict someone without due process you can land in trouble, of course. But one of the legitimate reasons for an eviction under Irish law is if the landlord needs the house for his own use or that of a relative.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/if_your_landlord_wants_you_to_leave.html
Landlords can terminate a tenancy that has lasted between six months and four years (a Part 4 tenancy) only in the following circumstances:
After 3 and ½ years

If the tenant does not comply with the obligations of the tenancy

If the property is no longer suited to the tenants’ needs (e.g. overcrowded)

If the landlord needs the property for him/herself or for an immediate family member

If the landlord intends to sell the property

If the landlord intends to refurbish the property

If the landlord plans to change the business use of the property (e.g. turn it into offices).

The only reason a court order would be needed in those circumstances is if the tenant decided to try and fight the eviction, which would make no sense, as they would lose anyway and waste plenty of money in the process.

If you're living in local authority or housing association housing, they can evict you for no reason at all:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/local_authority_and_social_housing/notice_to_quit_and_eviction.html

Wrong on both counts. What you are quoting from the citzens information is copied from the PRTB, which the Tribunal of the PRTB has said is wrong. A ll a landlord can do is issue a notice of termination in any event. A notice of termination cannot terminate the tenacy during a fixed term.
An eviction can only take place on foot of a court order if the tenant has not complied with an order of the PRTB to vacate.

http://public.prtb.ie/2011%20Disputes/Tribunals%202011/TR59.2011.DR1751.2010/Tribunal%20Report.pdf

The local authority tenant cannot be evicted for no reason at all. there was a Supreme Court decision recently to the effect that a tenant cannot be removed from local authority housing without regard to his rights under the ECHR

http://www.courts.ie/judgments.nsf/6681dee4565ecf2c80256e7e0052005b/c6f4944e0e6e995e802579bb0052a4d5?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,donegan

RichieC · 21-04-2012 11:08AM

Hope stories start coming out about them being Cnuts to their tenants in their 22 other properties.. lols will had.

44leto · 21-04-2012 11:09AM

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Who is informing us of this?

We inform each other and draw from many sources. The answer many media sources.

battle_hardend · 21-04-2012 11:12AM

mikemac1 wrote: »

Why is our local TD Joan Collins of Peope before Profit Alliance supporting the Kellys
She was on the radio today

It sort of goes against everything she has ever said about wealth tax and burn the bankers and her usual talk
If I was Mr Kelly's tenant and couldn't pay my rent would she support me?

United Left Alliance - socialism for millionaires and landlords :rolleyes:

i suspect joan collins is backing theese people because they are pensioners , politicans know that thier is infinite capital to be made from supporting pensioners in this country on any and every issue , if the kellys were in thier forties , the ULA would be calling for thier heads

Doc Ruby · 21-04-2012 11:17AM

Milk & Honey wrote: »

Wrong on both counts. What you are quoting from the citzens information is copied from the PRTB, which the Tribunal of the PRTB has said is wrong. A ll a landlord can do is issue a notice of termination in any event. A notice of termination cannot terminate the tenacy during a fixed term.
An eviction can only take place on foot of a court order if the tenant has not complied with an order of the PRTB to vacate.

http://public.prtb.ie/2011%20Disputes/Tribunals%202011/TR59.2011.DR1751.2010/Tribunal%20Report.pdf

The local authority tenant cannot be evicted for no reason at all. there was a Supreme Court decision recently to the effect that a tenant cannot be removed from local authority housing without regard to his rights under the ECHR

http://www.courts.ie/judgments.nsf/6681dee4565ecf2c80256e7e0052005b/c6f4944e0e6e995e802579bb0052a4d5?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,donegan

Interesting. What I quoted there was an official Irish government publication. You are aware that both of these cases go directly against most government supplied information on eviction legislation, which was actually mentioned in the first case? Perhaps you should be getting on to the likes of citizensinformation.ie and informing them of this to prevent any further confusion?

44leto wrote: »

We inform each other and draw from many sources. The answer many media sources.

Can you quote me some of them?

Agent J · 21-04-2012 11:23AM

Just to clarify for evictions on the rental side.

The PRTB rules are technically correct but they apply to the "Part 4" Tenancies only and can be superceded by a lease.

There is a difference between the standard "Part 4" Tenancy and a fixed term one. People always try to the use those rules as a definitive list but they are only a minimum standard of a protection.

A fixed term lease is on top of those rules.

44leto · 21-04-2012 11:26AM

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Interesting. What I quoted there was an official Irish government publication. You are aware that both of these cases go directly against most government supplied information on eviction legislation, which was actually mentioned in the first case? Perhaps you should be getting on to the likes of citizensinformation.ie and informing them of this to prevent any further confusion?

Can you quote me some of them?

This thread there are multiple links and references to other media sources.

Look back yourself, its how I learned about the story. I seen a bit on vincent brown as well.

Milk & Honey · 21-04-2012 11:28AM

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Interesting. What I quoted there was an official Irish government publication. You are aware that both of these cases go directly against most government supplied information on eviction legislation, which was actually mentioned in the first case? Perhaps you should be getting on to the likes of citizensinformation.ie and informing them of this to prevent any further confusion?

The information sources do not purport to be a legal interpretation and a re for guidance only. You are perfectly free to contact them yourself and point out that their information is wrong. In one case it was wrong from the beginning and in the other it has gone out of date.

T all events the landlord cannot evict without a court order. the City Council have to go to the district Court for an order for possession before they can evict. All they can do before that is serve notice.

Likewise all a landlord can do is serve a notice of termination. Eviction is ultimately carried out on foot of a court order. A landlord cannot just turn up and say I am moving in and change the locks.
It may be provided in some leases that there is a right of forfeiture but that only applies where there is a breach of condition.

Doc Ruby · 21-04-2012 11:36AM

Agent J wrote: »

Just to clarify for evictions on the rental side.

The PRTB rules are technically correct but they apply to the "Part 4" Tenancies only and can be superceded by a lease.

There is a difference between the standard "Part 4" Tenancy and a fixed term one. People always try to the use those rules as a definitive list but they are only a minimum standard of a protection.

A fixed term lease is on top of those rules.

A fixed term tenancy is just a lease, which for these purposes only matters insofar as a tenant may be in violation of the lease terms, part 4 protection applies whether or not a lease is in place. This is a bit beyond the scope of the thread though, I might start another one in accom/prop.

44leto wrote: »

This thread there are multiple links and references to other media sources.

Look back yourself, its how I learned about the story. I seen a bit on vincent brown as well.

Yeah, you can't go saying Irish people generally aren't too bright, that's racism.

Milk & Honey wrote: »

You are perfectly free to contact them yourself and point out that their information is wrong.

Sorta losing your social crusader high ground here. I will contact them, but I'll seek further clarification first.

Milk & Honey wrote: »

T all events the landlord cannot evict without a court order.

Only if tenants decide to dispute the eviction.

Milk & Honey wrote: »

A landlord cannot just turn up and say I am moving in and change the locks.

That's not what I said at all. I said according to official information a landlord can basically serve up an eviction notice on a whim (ie refurbishment). You may claim they are only guidelines but they are extremely clear guidelines, and not just on that website either, which it appears are now in dispute. Don't think I'm arguing with you on this, apparently you're right, but a bit more investigation would seem to be in order.

44leto · 21-04-2012 11:45AM

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Yeah, you can't go saying Irish people generally aren't too bright, that's racism.

.

Yes I can, because I am Irish, just like a Black man can call other Blackmen Ni**ers. It's only racism if I denegate another group. Irish people when it comes to politics are not that bright, I don't think I will have to go into details as to how I came to that decision.

Doc Ruby · 21-04-2012 11:55AM

44leto wrote: »

Yes I can, because I am Irish, just like a Black man can call other Blackmen Ni**ers. It's only racism if I denegate another group. Irish people when it comes to politics are not that bright, I don't think I will have to go into details as to how I came to that decision.

Oh no you can't my friend. Some African Americans do refer to one another in that way, but its not derogatory. If an African American was buying slaves while using that term, it would indeed be racist. This bollocks of "it can't be racist because I'm Irish" is utter nonense and frankly embarrassing. That's even assuming you are Irish.

As for Irish people and politics, you could say the same thing about any country that elected the wrong people for whatever reason, which is to say all of them. Despite which FF still got clinically demolished at the polls when the lies would go no further.

Agent J · 21-04-2012 11:59AM

Doc Ruby wrote: »

A fixed term tenancy is just a lease, which for these purposes only matters insofar as a tenant may be in violation of the lease terms, part 4 protection applies whether or not a lease is in place. This is a bit beyond the scope of the thread though, I might start another one in accom/prop.

I've been over this before in accom/prop.

Part 4 is a default minimum standard agreement. It's to protect people from no formal written lease. Nothing in a written lease can go aganist the law but it can give you addition protection. If you have fixed term this provides extra protection.

So when you sign a fixed term lease the fixed term issue must be dealt with before any of the part 4 stuff is even relevant(Legality nonwithstanding).

A landlord can't just break a fixed term lease and point to part 4 rules as justification. They need the tenants consent to do so.

It's a very common mistake people make.You really need to read this closely

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/types_of_tenancy.html

44leto · 21-04-2012 12:04PM

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Oh no you can't my friend. Some African Americans do refer to one another in that way, but its not derogatory. If an African American was buying slaves while using that term, it would indeed be racist. This bollocks of "it can't be racist because I'm Irish" is utter nonense and frankly embarrassing. That's even assuming you are Irish.

As for Irish people and politics, you could say the same thing about any country that elected the wrong people for whatever reason, which is to say all of them. Despite which FF still got clinically demolished at the polls when the lies would go no further.

It took a long time, to long we put up with mediocrity in our public officials because we know better. I would have a slight agreement with you if Micheal Lowry had not topped the polls in his constituency, but he did.

As for the racist thing, I am Irish and I don't have any Irish slaves, so I as an Irish man can put myself down along with my country, comedians do it all the time, its only derogative or insulting when ,lets say, British and mainly English comedians do so.

So I stand by my comment Irish god love us we are not that bright, lets vote Sinn fein and burn the bondholders and default,,yay.

Doc Ruby · 21-04-2012 12:11PM

44leto wrote: »

As for the racist thing, I am Irish and I don't have any Irish slaves, so I as an Irish man can put myself down along with my country, comedians do it all the time, its only derogative or insulting when ,lets say, British and mainly English comedians do so. .

You can say its not racist all you like, but it is. If you can't tell the difference between a comedian cracking wise for humour and a comment which deliberately puts down four million people, its not the Irish I'd be worried about in terms of intelligence.

44leto · 21-04-2012 12:19PM

Doc Ruby wrote: »

You can say its not racist all you like, but it is. If you can't tell the difference between a comedian cracking wise for humour and a comment which deliberately puts down four million people, its not the Irish I'd be worried about in terms of intelligence.

A half quote is a mis quote, and yes as an Irishman I can generalise about the Irish, isn't that a national identity, one great delusional generalisation. So would say when it comes to politics, we are bright, a shining beacon of democracy to the world. How many tribunals are we on now and how may prosecutions did we get for the 3 billion they cost,,,,,,,,,,,,,,pointless going on.

Yeah you are right, we are great at voting the right people, we never suffer corruption or fools gladly,,,,,,,

I will leave it there and agree to differ.

jmayo · 21-04-2012 12:20PM

outtagetme wrote: »

Debt does not equal wealth. You had better start waking up to that realisation.
The Kelly's are NOT wealthy.....they have been living on fake money for decades.

If I am living at home with my mother, paying her 20% of my paycheque, banking 50% and spending 30% I am a hell of a lot more wealthy than some bloke who has, say, 10 million euros in Equity but owes 15 million euros in mortgage costs, has rental income of 15k a month but also monthly outgoings of 25k.

As the yanks would say, "do the math"

The hypothetical guy in the modest home bought to house his family, not to speculate. The value dropped in the crash...no problem....his circumstances haven't changed....BUT if he lost his job and can't keep up with the payments....again c'est la vie.....HOWEVER he can't flog the house and move elsewhere where he might find work because he's trapped and nobody will buy. So he deserves a bit of sympathy for the plight he's in. If he buries his head in the sand for 4 years until the knock on the door finally comes then he too deserves precious little sympathy.

And spare us the begrudgery "oh how Irish" crap.

People here and expressing begrudgery, they're expressing disgust at this guy's galling sense of entitlement. He bitches about 19th century tactics. What the hell is he on about. If I walked into his house and refused to leave I'm quite certain he'd call the guards and have me physically removed. Can you imagine me crying about 19th century tactics.

Give me peace.

Excellent post.

mikemac1 wrote: »

Why is our local TD Joan Collins of Peope before Profit Alliance supporting the Kellys
She was on the radio today

It sort of goes against everything she has ever said about wealth tax and burn the bankers and her usual talk
If I was Mr Kelly's tenant and couldn't pay my rent would she support me?

United Left Alliance - socialism for millionaires and landlords :rolleyes:

This just shows that politicans of a certain brand will support any cause without first checking their facts.
Sure isn't it a bit of a protest ?

Has anyone noticed how recently the media have been hyping a bailout, sorry debt forgiveness/debtwriteoff for mortgage holders ?

Well folks I bet the media is more interested in a bailout for their "friends" who probably happen to be more like the kellys rather some poor smucks who bought a semi D in Gorey, Mullingar, Drogheda and now suddenly find they can't meet their repayments because they may have lost jobs, have increased taxes and are not making what they did when they bought.

There are a hell of a lot of kellys and mini wantabee shane filans (both from Sligo hence the link) in this country, who when push comes to shove will want to get the taxpayers to help them keep their plush primary residence even though they have had a bunch of investment properties that have caused them to go bust.

It is because of fookers like the kellys of Killiney that will mean our kids will have a lower standard of education and healthcare and may have to emigrate out of this sh**hole of a country.
Remember folks the bank this fooking couple owe money to belongs to us, the taxpayers of this state.
Thus they owe the money to you, me and the rest of us.

I know we cannot advocate violence on these forums, but if anyone deserve a swift kicking in the ar** and being tarred and feathered these two do. :mad:

EDITed ...
Remember folks next time you see a protest to protect pensioners freebees, you will see people protecting the rights of these freeloaders.

Remember folks next time you see a protest to protect ALL pensioners' freebees, you are seeing people protesting to protect the rights of deserving and UNDESERVING pensioners such as the freeloaders that are the topic of this thread.
Thus there should not be freebees for ALL of anything. :rolleyes:

jucko · 21-04-2012 12:33PM

I think this couple were just taking the piss.....
no one wanted the eviction
they should have paid, they had every opportunity to pay
they didn't
end of story.

cyrusdvirus · 21-04-2012 12:44PM

jmayo wrote: »

Remember folks next time you see a protest to protect pensioners freebees,
you will see people protecting the rights of these freeloaders.

Don't tar all pensioners with the same brush. Not all of them own 21 properties around the country and take the piss like these 2.

Pensioners evicted from their home today!!

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