Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Sinn Fein overtakes Labour as second largest party in Country

  • 20-04-2012 10:19AM
    #1
    paky
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭


    A new poll this morning shows Sinn Fein as the second most popular party in the country. I never thought I'd see Sinn Fein rise so fast. I wonder who their new converts are?


«13

Comments

  • #2
    Dots1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    Does it make much of a difference in reality? No one will go into government with them unless they water down their socialist policies so they are left with a choice of being popular out of government or going into government and having to change their policies.


  • #3
    paky
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭paky


    it makes a big difference, their level of support has soared. if thats a continuing trend, where will they stand by the next election?


  • #4
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38,989 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #5
    GSF
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,378 ✭✭✭GSF


    One poll, one week - lets not get too excited. Their core support is still only 15/16%. Faced with the worst crisis in 80 years, for a party that champions the populist over the realist, thats not a great showing.


  • #6
    Dots1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    paky wrote: »
    it makes a big difference, their level of support has soared. if thats a continuing trend, where will they stand by the next election?


    A huge IF, SF are a working class party, unless they update their economic policies they will never have support in the middle class and upper class hence will never grow all that much and if they do update their policies they will alienating their lower class support base so they are in a catch 22 situation.


  • Advertisement
  • #7
    ednwireland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,954 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    ahh its allright enda's not worried
    TAOISEACH Enda Kenny has dismissed a poll that showed a sharp fall in the public's opinion of the Government.

    He said the only poll he cares about is the general election, which saw the Fine Gael and Labour coalition seal a landslide victory over rival parties.

    The Taoiseach said public satisfaction may have dropped due to tough decisions the Government has been forced to make.

    "I acknowledge of course that people have difficulties in adjusting to changes that have to be made," said Mr Kenny, in response to the Ipsos MRBI/Irish Times survey.

    "But the fact we are spending 18 million euro more than we are taking in is a problem that will not go away and that has to be faced."

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/kenny-dismisses-poll-showing-sharp-fall-in-public-support-for-the-government-3087468.html

    shame hes not lived up to any election promise that doesnt involve increasing the tax burden

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



  • #8
    Border-Rat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Border-Rat


    Dots1982 wrote: »
    A huge IF, SF are a working class party, unless they update their economic policies they will never have support in the middle class and upper class hence will never grow all that much and if they do update their policies they will alienating their lower class support base so they are in a catch 22 situation.

    FG can't rely on both, yet they are in power. Seemingly you're introducing a 'catch 22' problem that is exclusive to the party you're conveniently biased against.


  • #9
    Lawrence1895
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,627 ✭✭✭Lawrence1895


    No surprise to me, the electorate finally did find out, that FG and Labour were making promises, they could not keep.

    FF still down in the dumps, no surprise either, they won't be forgiven that fast anyway.

    So maybe, Sinn Fein is seen as a real alternative?


  • #10
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38,989 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #11
    Dots1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    Border-Rat wrote: »
    FG can't rely on both, yet they are in power. Seemingly you're introducing a 'catch 22' problem that is exclusive to the party you're conveniently biased against.

    SF are in more of a catch 22 because they are far left so appeal to a particular subsection. The parties in power are in the centre so they have broader appeal if you get me.

    Seems harsh to accuse me of bias, I just don't have belief in their manifesto rather than being "biased" against them.


  • Advertisement
  • #12
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,809 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    I'd say their actual policies would have worked out much better than what the current government offered. No harms in having some bollocks and trying to look after the people of the country - not like FF/FG or labour have done and look after the banks.

    As to your made up policies that apparently SF support (burn which bondholders exactly? Or do you think its better to just be vague) ... well thats just makey uppy rubbish.


  • #13
    Dannyboy83
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    Best thing for Sinn Fein would be if a right wing party came along.

    Labour will not budge on Croke Park, because they know they would shed heavily to Sinn Fein/ULA & Fine Gael have to toe Labour's line to keep the coalition going.
    So the whole thing is deadlocked, politics by obstruction and the only answer is major tax increases.

    But if a new right wing party (or fiscally responsible party at least) came along with the primary aim of scrapping the CPA and getting taxation back under control, either Labour would have to get real, or Fine Gael would have a new coalition partner.
    Either way, Sinn Fein would benefit heavily from that.


  • #14
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,809 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Dots1982 wrote: »
    SF are in more of a catch 22 because they are far left so appeal to a particular subsection. The parties in power are in the centre so they have broader appeal if you get me.

    Seems harsh to accuse me of bias, I just don't have belief in their manifesto rather than being "biased" against them.

    The central, conservatives parties are trying to please everyone ... due to their larger appeal. Failing badly at it too. Give me a party that means what it says any day of the week.


  • #15
    Border-Rat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Border-Rat


    Dots1982 wrote: »
    SF are in more of a catch 22 because they are far left so appeal to a particular subsection. The parties in power are in the centre so they have broader appeal if you get me.

    Seems harsh to accuse me of bias, I just don't have belief in their manifesto rather than being "biased" against them.

    Sinn Fein is not 'far-left'. I think you have trouble with the basic left/right paradigm. Sinn Fein has never been 'far-left'. They are a centrist party.


  • #16
    Dots1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    maccored wrote: »
    The central, conservatives parties are trying to please everyone ... due to their larger appeal. Failing badly at it too. Give me a party that means what it says any day of the week.

    Fair enough but most middle and upper class voters won't agree with you so that is why they are at the moment locked into pleasing their base but will find it hard to get votes outside that base.


  • #17
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    So lets say Mary Lou comes to my hall door, campaigning for SF in the next election, and I then ask her "So Mary whats your stance on the PIRA armed struggle? did you support it, or not"? and I guess she would say 'YES'. Straight away Mary Lou has lost my vote, and up until recently she would have lost everybody's vote in the South, but sadly I get the impression that some people are cutting the Shinners some slack and forgetting (or not wanting to) remember the awful atrocities committed by IRA/SF in the name of the Irish people.

    I guess Mary Lou (untainted by any PIRA associations) would still say that the PIRA campaign was a just War, and she supported them and their thirty year bombing-shooting-murder fest. I will never vote for Sinn Fein, and I will never have a good word to say about them "unless" they accept that their 'alter egos' in the PIRA were wrong in murdering so many Irish & British people.


  • #18
    Border-Rat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Border-Rat


    LordSutch wrote: »
    So lets say Mary Lou comes to my hall door, campaigning for SF in the next election, and I then ask her "So Mary whats your stance on the PIRA armed struggle? did you support it, or not"? and I guess she would say 'YES'. Straight away Mary Lou has lost my vote, and up until recently she would have lost everybody's vote in the South, but sadly I get the impression that some people are cutting the Shinners some slack and forgetting (or not wanting to) remember the awful atrocities committed by IRA/SF in the name of the Irish people.

    I guess Mary Lou (untainted by any PIRA associations) would still say that the PIRA campaign was a just War, and she supported them and their thirty year bombing-shooting-murder fest. I will never vote for Sinn Fein, and I will never have a good word to say about them "unless" they accept that their 'alter egos' in the PIRA were wrong in murdering so many Irish & British people.

    So what would your response have been to UVF murder? I guess by this reasoning you also detest FF for their history of burning out Protestants?


  • #19
    Dots1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    LordSutch wrote: »
    So lets say Mary Lou comes to my hall door, campaigning for SF in the next election, and I then ask her "So Mary whats your stance on the PIRA armed struggle? did you support it, or not"? and I guess she would say 'YES'. Straight away Mary Lou has lost my vote, and up until recently she would have lost everybody's vote in the South, but sadly I get the impression that some people are cutting the Shinners some slack and forgetting (or not wanting to) remember the awful atrocities committed by IRA/SF in the name of the Irish people.

    I guess Mary Lou (untainted by any PIRA associations) would still say that the PIRA campaign was a just War, and she supported them and their thirty year bombing-shooting-murder fest. I will never vote for Sinn Fein, and I will never have a good word to say about them "unless" they accept that their 'alter egos' in the PIRA were wrong in murdering so many Irish & British people.


    Very principally but honestly if they could fix that pothole on your road would you change your tune?


  • #20
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Border-Rat wrote: »
    So what would your response have been to UVF murder? I guess by this reasoning you also detest FF for their history of burning out Protestants?

    In relation to the UVF I think they are/were just as bad as the PROVO's and if they were running for election down here I would equally reject them! and as regards FF, well I would never vote for them for many reasons, including your "burning out Protestants" reason.


  • #21
    Border-Rat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Border-Rat


    LordSutch wrote: »
    In relation to the UVF I think they are/were just as bad as the PROVO's and if they were running for election down here I would equally reject them! and as regards FF, well I would never vote for them for many reasons, including your "burning out Protestants" reason.

    But conveniently you didn't answer the question. The UVF once tried to burn and shoot a chapel full of Catholics (Which they did again last year). The Provo's repulsed the attempt with weaponry. Do you agree or not with that action?


  • Advertisement
  • #22
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Border-Rat wrote: »
    But conveniently you didn't answer the question.

    You asked me "So what would your response have been to UVF murder" To which I answered "In relation to the UVF I think they are/were just as bad as the PROVO's and if they were running for election down here I would equally reject them"


  • #23
    Lawrence1895
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,627 ✭✭✭Lawrence1895


    Border-Rat wrote: »
    Sinn Fein is not 'far-left'. I think you have trouble with the basic left/right paradigm. Sinn Fein has never been 'far-left'. They are a centrist party.

    But they are seen as a far left party in the 26 counties. Wasn't it Bertie Ahern himself, who called Sinn Fein 'Marxist Dreamers'?


  • #24
    Border-Rat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Border-Rat


    LordSutch wrote: »
    You asked me "So what would your response have been to UVF murder" To which I answered "In relation to the UVF I think they are/were just as bad as the PROVO's and if they were running for election down here I would equally reject them"

    That wasn't an answer. If given responsibility for the protection of Irish Catholics against UVF terrorism, what would your response have been? Come on now, surely you're a man of some substance?


  • #25
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Border-Rat wrote: »
    That wasn't an answer. If given responsibility for the protection of Irish Catholics against UVF terrorism, what would your response have been?

    I would have sent in the British Army to protect them, and to keep both sides apart.


  • #26
    Border-Rat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Border-Rat


    Lars1916 wrote: »
    But they are seen as a far left party in the 26 counties. Wasn't it Bertie Ahern himself, who called Sinn Fein 'Marxist Dreamers'?

    Thats just muck-slinging. Calling SF far-left is the equal of calling FG Fascist. National Socialism incorporates a lot of PSF policy but they are anything but far-left, or even centrist.


  • #27
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    ...without reducing Ireland to DeValera-esque economic basket-case-ity.
    maccored wrote: »
    I'd say their actual policies would have worked out much better than what the current government offered.
    Well, that depends on your interpretation of “better”. If, for example, you think that Ireland would be “better” if everyone was forced to speak Irish, buy Irish and pay for goods and services with potatoes and turf, then yes, I suppose Sinn Féin's policies would have worked out much better than what the current government offered.
    Border-Rat wrote: »
    Sinn Fein is not 'far-left'. I think you have trouble with the basic left/right paradigm. Sinn Fein has never been 'far-left'. They are a centrist party.
    Sure, if “centrist” is defined as being just to the left of Joe Higgins, then yes, Sinn Féin are centrist.


  • #28
    Border-Rat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Border-Rat


    LordSutch wrote: »
    I would have sent in the British Army to protect them, and to keep both sides apart.

    And if the British army began assisting the UVF in murder? Are you ashamed of the War of Independence? Or perhaps you're a Unionist?


  • #29
    Lawrence1895
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,627 ✭✭✭Lawrence1895


    LordSutch wrote: »
    I would have sent in the British Army to protect them, and to keep both sides apart.

    Sorry for interrupting, but that would be something like asking a bunch of Neo Nazi Skinheads to protect a synagogue :rolleyes:


  • #30
    Border-Rat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Border-Rat


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Sure, if “centrist” is defined as being just to the left of Joe Higgins, then yes, Sinn Féin are centrist.

    Sinn Fein is a centrist party. Those who argue otherwise fail to understand the basic paradigm or just don't like the fact that the IRA blew up 'blightly' and will use anything within hands-reach to attack with.


  • Advertisement
  • #31
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Border-Rat wrote: »
    Or perhaps you're a Unionist?

    Of course I'm a Unionist, but thast doesn't alter the fact that the Provo's were the enemy of all (excluding Republicans) of course.


Advertisement
Advertisement