Dog halts thief and now faces death

CrackisWhack · 20-04-2012 12:20PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

They'll use him as a guide to lead a counter terrorist team retracing the route of escape 30 years later in order to defuse a hostage situation and chemical weapons threat.

so, no answer?

Dravokivich · 20-04-2012 12:27PM

CrackisWhack wrote: »

so, no answer?

Ease up.

And if the dog attacked a kid trying to get the ball back, the sensible among us would be arguing that the kid should have knocked on the door and asked for it back.

CrackisWhack · 20-04-2012 12:34PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

Ease up.

And if the dog attacked a kid trying to get the ball back, the sensible among us would be arguing that the kid should have knocked on the door and asked for it back.

Ye the kid should knock, but speaking from personal experience, they don't always, neighbours aren't home, arsehole neighbours who won't give ball back, even an example when I was a teen I was running away from getting a beating one night and scaled a wall into someones garden to hide:D (there was loads of them;)).

Just saying it was a pretty savage attack, the dog didnt know the guy was a junkie that just robbed superquinn and is a danger full stop.

Dravokivich · 20-04-2012 12:43PM

CrackisWhack wrote: »

Ye the kid should knock, but speaking from personal experience, they don't always, neighbours aren't home, arsehole neighbours who won't give ball back, even an example when I was a teen I was running away from getting a beating one night and scaled a wall into someones garden to hide:D (there was loads of them;)).

Just saying it was a pretty savage attack, the dog didnt know the guy was a junkie that just robbed superquinn and is a danger full stop.

haha, no worries so.

But a dog in most instances wouldn't need to know the person the same way we'd try to assess. In this occurence the dog's agression would build up as a result of the attitude / actions of the guy who tried to run through the garden. They tend pick up on body language we generally don't concentrate on too much.

MungBean · 20-04-2012 12:53PM

cowzerp wrote: »

So the fact that if someone enters my property against my will and i'd attack does that make me a dangerous person who should be locked up/put down!!

If you have that attitude all dogs should be banned, Ridoncilus to say the least.

Come on lets relax here for a minute people are not dogs.

If you spotted someone running through your garden and attacked him to an extent that you had his hand off you'd be in a world of shít. Of course it makes you a dangerous person, at least the dog has instinct and a lack of awareness to back it up. I know the dog only reacted but the fact that he reacted makes him dangerous. I dont care what anyone says about dogs not being stupid, that dog did not attack because he knew the guy was upto no good he reacted to the excited situation.

Dravokivich wrote: »

Problem there is a result of the actions of the kid. Can't push responsiblity on the dog.

Doesnt matter who's responsible, kid, owner or dog. The result is the same and the dog is wicked and dangerous.

But going by the stereotype of the junkie scum they are attempting to arrest, it'll be taken as is that the dog in that instance was trained to act in such a manner. As a result being no more than a weapon. Your hypothetical situation should result in the dog being put down, but it is far from being on par with the hypothetical situation that Jenny, myself and others responded too in a more thought out manner as opposed to the sensationalist crap you've just put out.

Hold on your saying the dog was trained to attack people and was a weapon. Thanks for making my point for me. If it was a gun the owner used would the gun be taken away ? Sword ? Course they would. The reason the dog would be put down is that because a wicked dog cannot be re homed. This case is no different, the dog is wicked, it attacked a human being and tore his hand off. Whether used as a weapon or acting as a weapon its no different. He shouldnt be kept as a pet and unless theres some retirment home for wicked dogs the best option is to put it down.

What sensationalist crap are you talking about ? The only sensationist crap is from those eager to say well done to a vicious dog for ripping a human being hand off.

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

I find hearing stories of kids hopping over fences trespassing are more-so from disadvantaged areas where the parents just let their toe rags for kids run riot of the neighbourhood. Horrible generalisation of course but most people will agree with me. More well-to-do areas tend to have much nicer, polite, well manner kids.

So let the kids be savaged by dogs because their disadvantaged parents didnt bring them up right ? And people agree with this ? Jesus Christ.

There was no mention of the owner trying to stop the dog or did I miss that?

Article (which is now gone so I cant re-check) said the dog had to be pepper sprayed to get it off. I thought it mentioned the owner in that same piece so I assume if they had to pepper spray it it wasnt very responsive to commands.

We don't know the full facts, all I know is my dog has done the same to someone trying to break into the house, she is a labrador/greyhound cross, she chased them down the road and gave one of them an awful bite. She knew they were a threat and was defending her territory and her family. When the guards came over she happily walked over wagging her tail, she knew they were no threat.

Dog's arn't stupid, they know if someone means harm or not.

They are dogs they react to certain situations, they cannot differentiate between someone who wants to break in, a scumbag fleeing the police or a kids chasing a frog. They may not be stupid but they are not aware of jack **** other than attacking somebody unfamiliar to them when the owner isnt around.

Think that covers everything.

greendom · 20-04-2012 12:53PM

Dogs are supposed to be pets, and shouldn't cause serious harm to anyone. If they do they should be put down.

Dravokivich · 20-04-2012 01:19PM

MungBean wrote: »

Doesnt matter who's responsible, kid, owner or dog. The result is the same and the dog is wicked and dangerous.

A dog is only a threat if it goes on its own accord looking to attack. In the hypothetical situation of a kid hopping a wall to get a ball, the dog does not go looking to attack, but reacts to what the kid did.

MungBean wrote: »

Hold on your saying the dog was trained to attack people and was a weapon. Thanks for making my point for me. If it was a gun the owner used would the gun be taken away ? Sword ? Course they would. The reason the dog would be put down is that because a wicked dog cannot be re homed. This case is no different, the dog is wicked, it attacked a human being and tore his hand off. Whether used as a weapon or acting as a weapon its no different. He shouldnt be kept as a pet and unless theres some retirment home for wicked dogs the best option is to put it down.

In the hypothetical situation you presented, I merely acknowledged that with the stereotype of the owner it's generally expected that that dog would be trained to attack. That's all it would of been of use for to the owner. That would indeed make it a weapon.

I doubt the dog in this case which the thread is about was. I also would not jump to the conclusion that the dog in "the kid hopping over a wall" scenario was trained to do so either.

They are 2 completely different things and a matter of reaction, as opposed to a commanded action. The dog in this case presents no threat to the general public, nor does the dog in "the kid hopping over a wall" scenario.

MungBean wrote: »

What sensationalist crap are you talking about ? The only sensationist crap is from those eager to say well done to a vicious dog for ripping a human being hand off.

Bringing up talk of a kid hopping over a wall is sensationist. There is at presence no talk of such an issue occuring and is only referenced because this is what the theif did. He just hopped a wall.

Which led some people to say to themselves:

"Sure could of been a kid hopping the wall for a ball"

Without thinking:

A kid should know to knock. A local kid will also know where there's dogs. They'd also have a fair idea of their relationship with the dog and whether or not they are safe with it.

People not thinking about the arguement they present makes it sensationist. Constantly spewing it out makes it crap.

Thus sensationlist crap.

Jen Pigs Fly · 20-04-2012 01:23PM

MungBean wrote: »

So let the kids be savaged by dogs because their disadvantaged parents didnt bring them up right ? And people agree with this ? Jesus Christ.

Completely misunderstood me, no child deserves to be mauled by a dog, but generally the parents of those kids don't give two ****es about them or have no control over them and because of this don't put rules in place, so kids just run riot. Typical toe-rags really.

If they run into a dog, and are lucky to survive they will learn from it. I would say 9 times out of 10 a dog would not attack but would warn the child.

token101 · 20-04-2012 01:32PM

Why can't we just put this 'thief' down instead? That's what dogs are trained to do; kill vermin.

MungBean · 20-04-2012 01:41PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

A dog is only a threat if it goes on its own accord looking to attack. In the hypothetical situation of a kid hopping a wall to get a ball, the dog does not go looking to attack, but reacts to what the kid did.

But that doesnt mean he's not a threat. In that situation he becomes a threat to the kid or to anyone who trespasses. If he growled and barked but didnt attack then he's a deterrent. If he attacks then he's a weapon and whatever causes the reaction although responsible doesnt change the fact that the dog is still a threat and still dangerous and to allow him remain as a pet puts people in danger.

In the hypothetical situation you presented, I merely acknowledged that with the stereotype of the owner it's generally expected that that dog would be trained to attack. That's all it would of been of use for to the owner. That would indeed make it a weapon.

So no matter how aggressive the dog is as long as he's not trained to attack he's not a weapon ? Like I have stated above guard dogs are mostly deterrents, they are aggressive but not rained to attack people. If they attack they are a weapon whether trained to be or not. Whether the owner is Joe Soap or Scumbag Murphy its still dangerous.

I doubt the dog in this case which the thread is about was. I also would not jump to the conclusion that the dog in "the kid hopping over a wall" scenario was trained to do so either.

That doesnt matter, the fact he wasnt trained and still attacked means he's just as dangerous. Maybe even more so. Regardless of being trained the dog attacked a person that make shim dangerous not just attacking on command.

They are 2 completely different things and a matter of reaction, as opposed to a commanded action. The dog in this case presents no threat to the general public, nor does the dog in "the kid hopping over a wall" scenario.

They pose no immediate threat to the public but they are dangerous and do pose a threat. Same as dog trained to fight and attack if its kept in a back yard.

Bringing up talk of a kid hopping over a wall is sensationist. There is at presence no talk of such an issue occuring and is only referenced because this is what the theif did. He just hopped a wall.

Thats not sensationalist its a valid analogy ffs. This guy was attacked by a dog after jumping into the garden.

People not thinking about the arguement they present makes it sensationist. Constantly spewing it out makes it crap.

Thus sensationlist crap.

I have thought about the argument I'm making its neither sensationalist or crap, its just easy for you to say that to discount it. There is a lot of sensationalism in this thread but it hasnt come from me. I'm done talking to you as you seem more interested in having a go at me rather than discussing the topic. In other words I have no interest in reading your crap.

MungBean · 20-04-2012 01:43PM

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

Completely misunderstood me, no child deserves to be mauled by a dog, but generally the parents of those kids don't give two ****es about them or have no control over them and because of this don't put rules in place, so kids just run riot. Typical toe-rags really.

If they run into a dog, and are lucky to survive they will learn from it. I would say 9 times out of 10 a dog would not attack but would warn the child.

I didnt misunderstand you at all you have just stated the exact same thing again. Lets hope these toe rags run into some savage dogs to learn some manners eh ? :rolleyes:

cowzerp · 20-04-2012 01:57PM

CrackisWhack wrote: »

Also this thread would have entirely different comments if it had of been a kid trying to get his football back, which it could have easily been.

The whole kid going into a garden thing is BS propaganda and is never heard of, If it was to happen it would be all over the news, Dogs are not just maniacs that want kiddies blood and they know a threat when they see 1.

Maybe the next scummer on the run will think twice before trespassing on peoples private property.

Dravokivich · 20-04-2012 02:00PM

MungBean wrote: »

Thats not sensationalist its a valid analogy ffs. This guy was attacked by a dog after jumping into the garden.

I do not consider it valid for the reasons I referenced earlier:

Dravokivich wrote: »

Which led some people to say to themselves:

"Sure could of been a kid hopping the wall for a ball"

Without thinking:

A kid should know to knock. A local kid will also know where there's dogs. They'd also have a fair idea of their relationship with the dog and whether or not they are safe with it.

Which you do not appear to dispute.

MungBean wrote: »

I have thought about the argument I'm making its neither sensationalist or crap, its just easy for you to say that to discount it. There is a lot of sensationalism in this thread but it hasnt come from me. I'm done talking to you as you seem more interested in having a go at me rather than discussing the topic.

I am not having a go at you as I had responded similary to someone else who said the same thing earlier, and saw more posters do so since the inital post by you which I responded to. It was the sum of all those posts I was referring to.

MungBean wrote: »

In other words I have no interest in reading your crap.

I carried on correspondence as you continued respond to me on it. If you do not wish to engage further, just don't respond.

20-04-2012 02:04PM

superscouse wrote: »

Thats pure genius that is !

Seriously though. Two comments.

Fair play to the dog - one less scumbag

BUT

What if it was a child retrieving a football ?

It's not staffies but just about every dog I've experience with will jump all over and lick kids and just know when someone shouldn't be around.

greendom · 20-04-2012 02:08PM

cowzerp wrote: »

The whole kid going into a garden thing is BS propaganda and is never heard of, If it was to happen it would be all over the news, Dogs are not just maniacs that want kiddies blood and they know a threat when they see 1.

Is that so ?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/feb/13/man-sentenced-dog-attack-child

http://survivalfarm.wordpress.com/2011/08/17/pit-bull-dog-attacks-a-child/

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hero-neighbour-rescues-toddler-as-pet-dog-goes-beserk-3072116.html

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/9132513.Mum___s_warning_after_dog_attack_in_garden/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-115038/5-year-old-savaged-dog-attack.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/4550500/Baby-mauled-to-death-in-dog-attack-is-named.html

http://www.thisistotalessex.co.uk/Dog-tears-young-girl-s-face-apart-horrific-attack/story-15724950-detail/story.html

I could go on - dogs can be dangerous beasts and if they show any signs of attacking people, they should be put down.

Baneblade · 20-04-2012 02:13PM

A dog should be a threat to intruders.

Remember this guy invaded the dogs territory in an agitated state.
I would imagine the dog went through the usual barking then growling stages to warn him off.
if he did not attempt to go back over the wall he entered by as he was being chased from that direction but instead when for a different wall in the direction of the dog, then the dog would have had an agitated intruder comming at him so being attacked by the dog is completely understandable response.

in the "what if he escapes in the future scenario" a dog that has attacked someone who entered their territory wont automatically attack everyone they encounter. it attacked this person as it perceived that it or its house was being attacked

i assume the guards pepper sprayed the dog to stop the attack quickly and there were no mention of the owners as this probably happened very quickly and they probably were not even aware of it untill the attack was over. Also keep in mind there was no mention of the guards being attacked so i dont think the dog was overly aggressive.

cowzerp · 20-04-2012 02:34PM

greendom wrote: »

Is that so ?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/feb/13/man-sentenced-dog-attack-child

http://survivalfarm.wordpress.com/2011/08/17/pit-bull-dog-attacks-a-child/

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hero-neighbour-rescues-toddler-as-pet-dog-goes-beserk-3072116.html

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/9132513.Mum___s_warning_after_dog_attack_in_garden/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-115038/5-year-old-savaged-dog-attack.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/4550500/Baby-mauled-to-death-in-dog-attack-is-named.html

http://www.thisistotalessex.co.uk/Dog-tears-young-girl-s-face-apart-horrific-attack/story-15724950-detail/story.html

I could go on - dogs can be dangerous beasts and if they show any signs of attacking people, they should be put down.

OK i read them and from the 1st 1 and it was nothing to do with kid's going into a garden and getting attacked, epic fail.

Dravokivich · 20-04-2012 02:34PM

greendom wrote: »

Is that so ?

I could go on - dogs can be dangerous beasts and if they show any signs of attacking people, they should be put down.

I agree that there can be issues with dogs acting out agressively without any reason, as per the links you've put forward.

But this thread is in regards to a dog that reacted agressively towards someone who tresspassed that resulted in the dog causing great bodily harm to them. This dog should not be put down because of that. This dog did not seek to attack the person for no reason as per the articles you linked. I sincerly doubt there's a chance it will start attacking people without reason on that basis that it has attacked 1 person already.

greendom · 20-04-2012 02:38PM

cowzerp wrote: »

OK i read the 1st 1 and it was nothing to do with a kid going into a garden and getting attacked, epic fail.

I did not bother reading the rest but no doubt they are the same sort of garbage as the 1st 1 and totally off topic.

Reports of dogs attacking children is garbage. Interesting take on the World.

I agree that there can be issues with dogs acting out agressively without any reason, as per the links you've put forward.

But this thread is in regards to a dog that reacted agressively towards someone who tresspassed that resulted in the dog causing great bodily harm to them. This dog should not be put down because of that. This dog did not seek to attack the person for no reason as per the articles you linked. I sincerly doubt there's a chance it will start attacking people without reason on that basis that it has attacked 1 person already.

Is that a chance you really want to take ?

MungBean · 20-04-2012 02:40PM

cowzerp wrote: »

OK i read the 1st 1 and it was nothing to do with a kid going into a garden and getting attacked, epic fail.

I did not bother reading the rest but no doubt they are the same sort of garbage as the 1st 1 and totally off topic.

Its proof that dogs in general are unpredictable and do attack kids both in "their territory" when excited and when they escape. Its very much relevant to the argument about a dog who bit someone hand off being dangerous and how they might react to kids jumping into the garden.

Your claiming they dont pose a threat to kids, other claim its tough shít if the kids get savaged when tresspassing. Which is it ? Not a threat or justifiable threat ?

allibastor · 20-04-2012 02:47PM

greendom wrote: »

Is that so ?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/feb/13/man-sentenced-dog-attack-child

http://survivalfarm.wordpress.com/2011/08/17/pit-bull-dog-attacks-a-child/

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hero-neighbour-rescues-toddler-as-pet-dog-goes-beserk-3072116.html

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/9132513.Mum___s_warning_after_dog_attack_in_garden/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-115038/5-year-old-savaged-dog-attack.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/4550500/Baby-mauled-to-death-in-dog-attack-is-named.html

http://www.thisistotalessex.co.uk/Dog-tears-young-girl-s-face-apart-horrific-attack/story-15724950-detail/story.html

I could go on - dogs can be dangerous beasts and if they show any signs of attacking people, they should be put down.

on Having read these articles i came to the conclusion that in all cases the owner was someone who should not have had a dog in the first place. correct me if i am wrong, but a child who grows up in a scummy environment will act like a scum bag. same with a dog. will we put down the child also?

Dravokivich · 20-04-2012 02:50PM

greendom wrote: »

Is that a chance you really want to take ?

Due to the reason for the attack in the article that this thread is about, I wouldn't consider it a "chance" or point of concern to still have a dog that attacked under those circumstances.

The articles you linked are very different to it. Those dogs should clearly be put down.

Merch · 20-04-2012 02:52PM

Holy christ on a bike!

I really didn't expect it so soon.

I said over in animals and pet issues its only a matter of time before something like this happens in Ireland in a thread I started in Animals and pet issues, while i expected a dog on the Restricted List breed to turn on its master or attack some kid in a park and not really that some person/thief running from a crime is attacked in a the owners back yard, while I have little sympathy for the thief generally, it could easily (waits for childish cries "oh will somebody please think of the children"

) but as some posters have pointed out, this easily have been some kid going over to get a ball from that back yard, what if a Garda chasing this guy had gone after said thief and gotten mauled instead of the thief?

edit, awaits militant and stupid replies from usual respondents to animals and pet issues, such as, if some kid goes into the backgarden where a dog like this is, they deserve to have their hand chewed off!
or maybe dogs are people too

Peace · 20-04-2012 02:59PM

That dog is a modern day hero but just like Jack Bauer he will probably be labeled the bad guy.

MaxSteele · 20-04-2012 03:04PM

Won't somebody please think of the children !!!

Getting tired of this high horse sh*te "what if it had been a child" scenario. Most children are smart enough and weary of threatening dogs (I was and I've seen plenty of other kids do the same). Most would either knock or **** their knickers at the sight of a growling dog. Pretty lame argument at that too.

Also some posters are failing to differentiate between dogs who attack randomly by jumping a wall and those who simply stand their ground on home turf. Sick to death of this "pitbulls etc should be banned" excuse too, a dog is a product of their environment in most cases and is usually down to an uncaring, irresponsible owner. That dog deserves a medal and a streak meal.

MaxSteele · 20-04-2012 03:08PM

Merch wrote: »

Holy christ on a bike!

I really didn't expect it so soon.

I said over in animals and pet issues its only a matter of time before something like this happens in Ireland in a thread I started in Animals and pet issues, while i expected a dog on the Restricted List breed to turn on its master or attack some kid in a park and not really that some person/thief running from a crime is attacked in a the owners back yard, while I have little sympathy for the thief generally, it could easily (waits for childish cries "oh will somebody please think of the children" ) but as some posters have pointed out, this easily have been some kid going over to get a ball from that back yard, what if a Garda chasing this guy had gone after said thief and gotten mauled instead of the thief?

edit, awaits militant and stupid replies from usual respondents to animals and pet issues, such as, if some kid goes into the backgarden where a dog like this is, they deserve to have their hand chewed off!
or maybe dogs are people too

Well until something like that happens here ...... stop making ignorant generalizations and tarring dogs, when parents and trespassers should know better.

Padkir · 20-04-2012 03:27PM

Dogs are not stupid, and I would imagine that the dog in this situation should not be put down as he was simply defending his territory against someone who was an obvious threat.

I'll give you an example. I deliver home heating oil for my father the odd time, weekend dealie or holidays, whatever. Came to a house one day, reversed in, was about to pull the pipe over tot he tank, when an Rottweiler appears from behind it. He just looked at me, no aggression, until I thought, "hmmm he must be ok, I'll carry on."

Once I took one step towards him he started growling, getting ready for attack mode, took a few steps towards me. I stopped, stayed still for a minute, then went back to the truck and rang the guy I was delivering to, who said he was on his way home. Meanwhile dog happily lied down again watching me.

As soon as the owner got there, he brought me over to the dog, who was now calm as you like, friendly, wagging the tail, sniffing etc. and continued to be friendly while I was there, even after the owner left again.

Interesting part was that the owner told me that the kids around all loved him, and often went in to play with him, sometimes running towards him and screaming, but he knew that they weren't a threat, and tolerated it.

Had a few similar situations in other places but this is the best example I could think of.

Point is, I think the dog in question probably would have acted differently if a child had wandered in looking for a ball, as they'd not be a threat, and even if he did perceive them to be a threat, there would be plenty of warning to get out before he needed to attack.

cowzerp · 20-04-2012 03:45PM

MungBean wrote: »

Its proof that dogs in general are unpredictable and do attack kids both in "their territory" when excited and when they escape. Its very much relevant to the argument about a dog who bit someone hand off being dangerous and how they might react to kids jumping into the garden.

Your claiming they dont pose a threat to kids, other claim its tough shít if the kids get savaged when tresspassing. Which is it ? Not a threat or justifiable threat ?

It's not proof that kids get are getting attacked going into back gardens at all, It's typical grasping at straws posting that means nothing in the context of what the thread is about.

I also never said they don't pose a threat to kids, i said the kids stuff is bs and it does not happen that kids get mauled following their balls into gardens. then you post links up about anti social dogs that are attacking in a totally different scenario to 1 that is defending it's home.

Sponge Bob · 20-04-2012 03:47PM

I hate pit bulls (and their owners who generally always look like the dog itself) but I feel sorry for this poor bastard who was just minding his own business when a skanger jumped on him.

cowzerp · 20-04-2012 03:51PM

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I hate pit bulls (and their owners who generally always look like the dog itself) but I feel sorry for this poor bastard who was just minding his own business when a skanger jumped on him.

Most people would have no clue what a pitbull looked like! Except you as your ignorance leads me to believe you would know :rolleyes:

What most people think are pitbulls are Staffies, Boxers, Sharpei's or any dog with a Mastiff type look on it.

Dog halts thief and now faces death

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