Ditch Windows for Linux?

D1stant · 19-04-2012 11:28AM #1

I am considering this

The last time I used UNIX/Linux was in the mid 90s (dual boot) and have not kept up to date witrh developments, but my laptop is over 4 years old and the perforemance is crap on Windows and Im sure I'd get much better performance from a Linux OS.

Some questions

- What version of Linux would people recomend (Free, totally free)

- Am I likely to have a pain with drivers for webcams, USB devices, iPhone, tethering etc?

- Are there potential isssues with silly partioning?

- Can I get freeware (Star Office?) that will seamlessly open/edit and share with MS users MS Office docs/presentations etc

- How good is the network control (firewalling, packet sniffing, QoS etc)

- How easy is it to patch?

Anything else I should be aware of?

Thanks in advance

fionny · 19-04-2012 11:34AM

- What version of Linux would people recomend (Free, totally free)
Ubuntu is the most friendly I believe

- Am I likely to have a pain with drivers for webcams, USB devices, iPhone, tethering etc?
AFAIK most drivers are all pretty much sorted, not sure about the fruitphone though.

- Are there potential isssues with silly partioning?
Define Silly? It should work the same as windows

- Can I get freeware (Star Office?) that will seamlessly open/edit and share with MS users MS Office docs/presentations etc
Open Office or Libre Office, in fact I think one of them is pre-installed in Ubuntu.

- How good is the network control (firewalling, packet sniffing, QoS etc)
Not quite sure to be honest but would imagine its as good if not better the windows flexibility and functionality wise.

- How easy is it to patch?
Last time I used it was seemless no different from windows update really.

uncle_sam_ie · 19-04-2012 11:45AM

http://linuxmint.com/

yoyo · 19-04-2012 12:11PM

Moved to unix

Knasher · 19-04-2012 02:30PM

Mostly agree with Fionny, just wanted to add a few things.

- Am I likely to have a pain with drivers for webcams, USB devices, iPhone, tethering etc?
I don't have an iPhone, but one thing to keep in mind is that, there is alternative software to sync music, but iTunes itself doesn't work on Linux. So if there is another feature if iTunes you really need you should look in advance for an alternative in Linux.

- Are there potential issues with silly partitioning?
Well Linux gives you a lot more control over these sort of things. For example I have an SSD so I keep a small partition on my RAM for temporary files and log files as I really don't need them written to and wearing away at my SSD. If you don't have a reason to change away from the defaults, then the defaults will do fine.

- How good is the network control (firewalling, packet sniffing, QoS etc)
It's a common theme, it gives you a lot more control, but is a bit more complicated. If you want to do something unusual, then generally you will find that the different linux communities are really excellent and someone have documented exactly they went about doing exactly what you are trying to do.

- How easy is it to patch?
This is one of the areas I think Linux has a big advantage over Windows. Most software you will ever use is held in repositories, so updating everything is just as simple as issuing one or two commands. As apposed to Windows where each piece of software either has to include its own update system or you just have to keep track of the websites of the people who write the software. The added advantage is that software can be updated regularly and not just when you actually want to use the software.

BopNiblets · 20-04-2012 01:05AM

+1 for Mint, version 13 should be coming out soon and should sort you out for most, if not all, of what you mentioned.
(12 is fine too with the Cinnamon desktop environment added)

PrzemoF · 20-04-2012 10:29AM

OP, Give it a go. If you hit any problems we'll solve them here. Most likely it will work out of the box.You can also test a livecd to get a good idea how it works and what might not work. If you're going to wipe out windows completely (recommended) you'll have to set time zone, your name, account name & password and that's _all_. The installator will do the rest for you - I did a fresh installation of ubuntu for a friend 2 days ago (another one converted to linux

).

I'm using LibreOffice to open excel files that excel refuses to open

And it's better than free, because it's open & free.

Tethering (samsung S2): plug the phone, hit tether on the phone, wait 5 seconds, connection established. My coleague (windows user) was shocked when he saw that. However I don't have iphone, so your experience might be different.

Linux is a network system. I was designed as a network system. Huge part of the internet works on linux (from big google servers to home routers). Some info to start: sniffing - wireshark & kismet, QOS - flash your router with tomato or dd-wrt (both linux).

D1stant · 20-04-2012 10:58AM

PrzemoF wrote: »

OP, Give it a go. If you hit any problems we'll solve them here. QUOTE]

That convinced me. Mint it is. Wish me luck!

D1stant · 20-04-2012 03:33PM

2 problems

PC is Dell Latitude 630 with Broadcom 1490 Wifi controller

Mint sees the adapter (lspci & ifconfig) but wifi is not working. Found some CLI instructions on the web, no joy

iPhone tethering not working, Ditto. says cant mount iphone

Other than that performance is very much improved

human 19 · 20-04-2012 07:53PM

D1stant wrote: »

2 problems

PC is Dell Latitude 630 with Broadcom 1490 Wifi controller

Mint sees the adapter (lspci & ifconfig) but wifi is not working. Found some CLI instructions on the web, no joy

iPhone tethering not working, Ditto. says cant mount iphone

Other than that performance is very much improved

searching Broadcom 1490 on linux mint forum...

http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=48564&p=279798&hilit=Broadcom+1490#p281213

googling tether iphone linux: 1st result

http://techie-buzz.com/foss/getting-iphone-internet-tethering-working-in-linux.html

D1stant · 20-04-2012 10:40PM

I cant see my adapter (I did ealrier when I installed Wifi radar, but cant now for some reason)

eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:1c:23:52:83:e8
inet addr:192.168.1.3 Bcast:192.168.1.255 Mask:255.255.255.0
inet6 addr: fe80::21c:23ff:fe52:83e8/64 Scope:Link
UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
RX packets:11222 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:6344 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
RX bytes:15211971 (15.2 MB) TX bytes:468728 (468.7 KB)
Interrupt:17

lo Link encap:Local Loopback
inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0
inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1
RX packets:39 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:39 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
RX bytes:2883 (2.8 KB) TX bytes:2883 (2.8 KB)

lspci gives this

09:00.0 Ethernet controller: Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5755M Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express (rev 02)
0c:00.0 Network controller: Broadcom Corporation BCM4311 802.11a/b/g (rev 01)

Any ideas?

Thanks

human 19 · 21-04-2012 12:38AM

D1stant wrote: »

I cant see my adapter (I did ealrier when I installed Wifi radar, but cant now for some reason)

Any ideas?

Thanks

I thought this was the relevant post from the thread (although it was from 2010)...

A friend has the BCM4312 in his Dell 1545. He installed the operating system using his wired Ethernet. While still plugged in, he pulled up the System>Administration>Hardware Drivers options. He selected the STA driver, installed it, unplugged his wired Ethernet, rebooted, and the BCM4312 wi-fi was available for configuration. I know this method worked for him.

search of BC1490 on Ubuntu website gives this thread

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1848937&highlight=broadcom+1490

Personally, I would also look on the broadcom website for Debian/Ubuntu/Mint drivers

crow242 · 21-04-2012 12:49AM

D1stant wrote: »

0c:00.0 Network controller: Broadcom Corporation BCM4311 802.11a/b/g (rev 01)

Any ideas?

Thanks

Install b43-fwcutter and firmware-b43-installer from the software manager and you might need to reboot for wireless to work.

LiamOSullivan · 21-04-2012 11:58AM

I've no experience with Mint, but you could try Ubuntu 12.04(Or one of its derivatives; Lubuntu might be a good plan on an old laptop).
When I used 12.04 at a full installation, everything worked perfectly.

I've been having a lot of problems since, but I did a minimal install and have been setting up everything myself(Only have i3 as a DE, and don't even use that too much).

PrzemoF · 22-04-2012 07:32PM

OP, read this [1]. If you feel lost, unsure what to do or anything else post the results here.

From the info provided you need b43 driver. Installing
firmware-b43-installer package might be enough to solve your problem.

You're a new user, so I'd suggest to reboot after installing. Advanced option: load/check modules manually and restart networking service - no system restart required.

[1] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx

D1stant · 22-04-2012 09:25PM

Stumped. Not sure where to go from here

I have tried most of the suggestions here and elsewhere

ifconfig still cannot see the adapter

I did a reinstall of Mint 12 beta

ifconfig could not see the adapyer, but system tools, networking saw a wireless MAC but could not switch on wireless

updated all packages

sudo apt-get install b43-fwcutter firmware-b43-installer, rebooted. No joy

In additional drivers activated the Broadcom STA. rebooted. No joy

BTW how do I just restart networking without rebooting the PC?

D1stant · 22-04-2012 11:42PM

Solved

Reinstalled again.

sudo apt-get install b43-fwcutter

sudo apt-get install b43-fwcutter firmware-b43-installer

Reboot.

Jesus. Finicky though

PrzemoF · 23-04-2012 08:58AM

Sounds like you had an incorrect driver loaded.

Did you remove STA driver? I think that installing b43 on top of STA might not work.

Anyway, good that you have it working and I'm quite sure it will be easier from now on

This should restart networking:

sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart

This checks if you have b43 driver loaded:

lsmod | grep b43

This loads b43 module manually:

sudo modprobe b43

This removes b43 module:

sudo rmmod b43

However most of the time you don't need to know that. It's handy if something goes wrong.

I strongly recommend to avoid reinstalls - you learn nothing from that and in 99% cases the info what's wrong is in log files (kernel/dmesg/messages/Xorg)

irishdude11 · 23-04-2012 01:28PM

And this is why its not worth using Linux these days. This happens way too much. It doesn't work with some piece of your hardware or a peripheral piece of hardware. And then you have to go and spend hours looking up crap on the ubuntu forums and where-ever else trying to find an answer. And then you find an answer and have to start typing crap into the terminal. And it doesn't work and you are back looking for another answer. And eventually you may get it working, or you may not. It's just pointless in this day and age to be at this craic.

D1stant · 23-04-2012 01:33PM

irishdude11 wrote: »

And this is why its not worth using Linux these days. This happens way too much. It doesn't work with some piece of your hardware or a peripheral piece of hardware. And then you have to go and spend hours looking up crap on the ubuntu forums and where-ever else trying to find an answer. And then you find an answer and have to start typing crap into the terminal. And it doesn't work and you are back looking for another answer. And eventually you may get it working, or you may not. It's just pointless in this day and age to be at this craic.

I'm completely with you in one regard. I just want to use the PC and not spend hours begging the thing to work. That said, it was a little bit of hassle, but now the machine is 2-3 times faster. So its like having a new laptop. Worth the hassle for me.... so far

PrzemoF · 23-04-2012 04:23PM

Lads, what if you have a wifi card that doesnt want to work with windows for some unknown reason? Buy a new one/reinstall windows or pray for a miracle?

I organised a small meeting some time ago. 3 users with laptops (ubuntu/pld linus/windows xp) and a mobile hot spot provided by an android device. Linux boxes connectied in no time, xp user gave up after 20 minutes and had to watch presentation over my shoulder as he couldn't connect to the hot spot.

irishdude11, my mother in law is using ubuntu (I did the initial setup about year ago and haven't seen tha laptop since) - believe me she's not aware what is a terminal or how to load a module.

irishdude11 · 23-04-2012 05:20PM

PrzemoF wrote: »

Lads, what if you have a wifi card that doesnt want to work with windows for some unknown reason? Buy a new one/reinstall windows or pray for a miracle?

Neither it will work. And if it doesn't work it's not down to windows it's down to a problem in the card itself. Because when a company that manufactures wifi cards has millions invested in their product you can be sure they will have it working with Windows which has something like 85% market share. They will have a team of professionals paid to constantly maintain the drivers. You are not relying on some random person or group working in their spare time to write an open source driver like you are with Linux.

I organised a small meeting some time ago. 3 users with laptops (ubuntu/pld linus/windows xp) and a mobile hot spot provided by an android device. Linux boxes connectied in no time, xp user gave up after 20 minutes and had to watch presentation over my shoulder as he couldn't connect to the hot spot.

Are you for real here, why are you comparing modern Linux to an 11 year old operating system like XP that is already 3 years past it's mainstream support lifecycle? That's like comparing Windows 7 to a version of Linux that was released 11 years previously in 1998. It's ridiculous.

irishdude11, my mother in law is using ubuntu (I did the initial setup about year ago and haven't seen tha laptop since) - believe me she's not aware what is a terminal or how to load a module.

Good for her. Maybe one day she might try and hook up some external hardware to the pc like an mp3 player/phone/camera and maybe it'll work, maybe it won't and you 'll be on the ubuntu forums for hours trying to sort it out.

One of the problems with Linux is you run into problems that you would never run into on windows and it can take ages to fix, if they are even fixable. I used ubuntu and mint as my main operating systems for two years. They are great operating systems and I enjoyed using them 90% of the time, but its just not worth the hassle for me anymore spending hours looking up answer if I need to get something working. And then Windows 7 runs perfectly all the time and never slows down (one of the reasons I ditched XP for Linux), and has open source software for every task and brilliant commercial software if you want to pay. I think Windows 7 hurt Linux as many people were starting to look into Linux as XP was so old and Vista was crap. It seems once Windows 7 came out, the interest in Linux dryed up big time.

Jagera · 23-04-2012 05:30PM

D1stant wrote: »

Jesus. Finicky though

This is, in my opinion, why Linux still isn't gathering a lot of pace in the market.

I can say, safely here in the UNIX forum, that it's a better OS for performance & easier to manage but sometimes things are really really difficult to get going.

When I tried to use a wireless UBS modem - no go. Bought an Epson printer - prints fine - scanner doesn't work from pc.

The anomaly with Linux, it's the perfect OS for home users - bit of internet/email/music/photos - but you need to be a bit of a techy to get over those scary hurdles which do come up.

Still.. I use it, and recommend it always. Good luck.

PrzemoF · 23-04-2012 05:48PM

irishdude11 wrote: »

You are not relying on some random person or group working in their spare time to write an open source driver like you are with Linux.

I'm quite sure you know some of the names from that list:
http://www.remword.com/kps_result/3.4_whole.html

OK xp is old, yet in 3 engineering companies I have contact with it's still the main system used. W7 for home use only?

irishdude11, Let's make a bet: in 10 years time linux will have 75% of the market of PCs and mobile devices (W8 will help big time!).

irishdude11 · 23-04-2012 06:10PM

PrzemoF wrote: »

I'm quite sure you know some of the names from that list:
http://www.remword.com/kps_result/3.4_whole.html

Yeah some big name companies contributed some patches to the kernel. Are their products properly supported on Linux? Not by a long shot. Way way more devices are not supported than are supported. I see Samsung high up there on the list. Go to Samsung's smartphones page and you'll see they offer their Kies software for Windows and Mac OS, no Linux. Microsoft are high up there too. Yet my Microsoft mouse wasn't properly supported.

And on that list the biggest contributer is intel, no surprises there, that's a given. But look at the 2nd and 3rd biggest contributers- unknowns and hobbyists.

That list is irreleveant, it's not a list of companies that fully support Linux, it's a list of companies who added some code to the Linux kernel.

OK xp is old, yet in 3 engineering companies I have contact with it's still the main system used. W7 for home use only?

I don't understand your point? They are using xp because it is not worth upgrading for them cost-wise or hassle wise at this time. What has that got to do with anything?

irishdude11, Let's make a bet: in 10 years time linux will have 75% of the market of PCs and mobile devices (W8 will help big time!).

We are talking about pcs and laptops here. Mobile are a different area altogether, I have an android phone myself.

croo · 28-04-2012 05:12PM

irishdude11 wrote: »

We are talking about pcs and laptops here. Mobile are a different area altogether, I have an android phone myself.

You wouldn't have if others had not gone against mainstream opinion like yours for the last 20 years and helped to make a viable alternative that is linux.

d'Oracle · 28-04-2012 06:09PM

You read some funny stuff on here.

Win 7 hurt Linux?
Even if I'm not pedantic about it and I accept it as read that we are talking purely about desktop......How the hell did Win 7 hurt Linux? Half of bugger all people used it before, half of bugger all use it now. Has there been a significant impact on the linux desktop userbase that nobody knows about?

Nobody uses Linux because Windows optimised wireless cards won't work with it?
So its nothing to do with the fact that Computers are put together to work with Windows?
Nothing to do with when I walk into a shop I have a choice of Windows 7 or MacOS?
Nothing to do with the absolute lack of marketing or advertising for desktop linux because they are mostly not-for-profit organisations?

desaparecidos · 28-04-2012 06:32PM

Funny thread, starts off looking like the answer to the title is, "yes, ditch Windows for Linux" but then cold hard evidence shows us Linux just isn't up to it. If you have to waste time reading blogs and forums and using the command prompt to get a basic installation fully working then something is wrong.

What can you do on Linux that you can't do on Windows? Nothing.

What can you do on Windows that you can't do on Linux? A hell of a lot, and easier.

d'Oracle · 28-04-2012 06:47PM

desaparecidos wrote: »

Funny thread, starts off looking like the answer to the title is, "yes, ditch Windows for Linux" but then cold hard evidence shows us Linux just isn't up to it.

Isn't up to what?

If you buy a windows pc, it will come with the software for the contained hardware installed or on a disc.

If you build your own, you must ensure that the software is adequate.

If you install a linux distro, you need to make sure the software is set up for the hardware.

desaparecidos wrote: »

If you have to waste time reading blogs and forums and using the command prompt to get a basic installation fully working then something is wrong.

Yes, in this case, the system wasn't set up for all its hardware.
Just like my wifes laptop and her printer when she upgraded from Vista to Windows 7.
I had to spend time online to see how to fix it.
Think I used the prompt too.

desaparecidos wrote: »

What can you do on Linux that you can't do on Windows? Nothing.

What can you do on Windows that you can't do on Linux? A hell of a lot, and easier.

Apart from playing games and Windows specific stuff.....what?

28-04-2012 07:02PM

desaparecidos wrote: »

What can you do on Linux that you can't do on Windows? Nothing.

What can you do on Windows that you can't do on Linux? A hell of a lot, and easier.

Provide some examples please?

croo · 28-04-2012 08:18PM

desaparecidos wrote: »

What can you do on Linux that you can't do on Windows? Nothing.

Eh..
* Read the source code,
* give a copy to a friend,
* put it on a machine other than the one I bought it on [most windows versions are OEM and so can only be run on the hardware it was purchased with],
* experiment with lots of copies in Virtual Machines without needing to spend a fortune on licenses,
That's before I get to the everyday things like be confident I can browse securely online.

Ditch Windows for Linux?

Comments