Ditch Windows for Linux?

D1stant

I am considering this

The last time I used UNIX/Linux was in the mid 90s (dual boot) and have not kept up to date witrh developments, but my laptop is over 4 years old and the perforemance is crap on Windows and Im sure I'd get much better performance from a Linux OS.

Some questions

- What version of Linux would people recomend (Free, totally free)

- Am I likely to have a pain with drivers for webcams, USB devices, iPhone, tethering etc?

- Are there potential isssues with silly partioning?

- Can I get freeware (Star Office?) that will seamlessly open/edit and share with MS users MS Office docs/presentations etc

- How good is the network control (firewalling, packet sniffing, QoS etc)

- How easy is it to patch?


Anything else I should be aware of?

Thanks in advance

fionny

- What version of Linux would people recomend (Free, totally free)
Ubuntu is the most friendly I believe

- Am I likely to have a pain with drivers for webcams, USB devices, iPhone, tethering etc?
AFAIK most drivers are all pretty much sorted, not sure about the fruitphone though.

- Are there potential isssues with silly partioning?
Define Silly? It should work the same as windows

- Can I get freeware (Star Office?) that will seamlessly open/edit and share with MS users MS Office docs/presentations etc
Open Office or Libre Office, in fact I think one of them is pre-installed in Ubuntu.

- How good is the network control (firewalling, packet sniffing, QoS etc)
Not quite sure to be honest but would imagine its as good if not better the windows flexibility and functionality wise.

- How easy is it to patch?
Last time I used it was seemless no different from windows update really.

uncle_sam_ie

http://linuxmint.com/

yoyo

Moved to unix

Knasher

Mostly agree with Fionny, just wanted to add a few things.

- Am I likely to have a pain with drivers for webcams, USB devices, iPhone, tethering etc?
I don't have an iPhone, but one thing to keep in mind is that, there is alternative software to sync music, but iTunes itself doesn't work on Linux. So if there is another feature if iTunes you really need you should look in advance for an alternative in Linux.

- Are there potential issues with silly partitioning?
Well Linux gives you a lot more control over these sort of things. For example I have an SSD so I keep a small partition on my RAM for temporary files and log files as I really don't need them written to and wearing away at my SSD. If you don't have a reason to change away from the defaults, then the defaults will do fine.

- How good is the network control (firewalling, packet sniffing, QoS etc)
It's a common theme, it gives you a lot more control, but is a bit more complicated. If you want to do something unusual, then generally you will find that the different linux communities are really excellent and someone have documented exactly they went about doing exactly what you are trying to do.

- How easy is it to patch?
This is one of the areas I think Linux has a big advantage over Windows. Most software you will ever use is held in repositories, so updating everything is just as simple as issuing one or two commands. As apposed to Windows where each piece of software either has to include its own update system or you just have to keep track of the websites of the people who write the software. The added advantage is that software can be updated regularly and not just when you actually want to use the software.

BopNiblets

+1 for Mint, version 13 should be coming out soon and should sort you out for most, if not all, of what you mentioned.
(12 is fine too with the Cinnamon desktop environment added)

PrzemoF

OP, Give it a go. If you hit any problems we'll solve them here. Most likely it will work out of the box.You can also test a livecd to get a good idea how it works and what might not work. If you're going to wipe out windows completely (recommended) you'll have to set time zone, your name, account name & password and that's _all_. The installator will do the rest for you - I did a fresh installation of ubuntu for a friend 2 days ago (another one converted to linux ).

I'm using LibreOffice to open excel files that excel refuses to open
And it's better than free, because it's open & free.

Tethering (samsung S2): plug the phone, hit tether on the phone, wait 5 seconds, connection established. My coleague (windows user) was shocked when he saw that. However I don't have iphone, so your experience might be different.

Linux is a network system. I was designed as a network system. Huge part of the internet works on linux (from big google servers to home routers). Some info to start: sniffing - wireshark & kismet, QOS - flash your router with tomato or dd-wrt (both linux).

D1stant

PrzemoF wrote: »

OP, Give it a go. If you hit any problems we'll solve them here. QUOTE]



That convinced me. Mint it is. Wish me luck!

D1stant

2 problems

PC is Dell Latitude 630 with Broadcom 1490 Wifi controller

Mint sees the adapter (lspci & ifconfig) but wifi is not working. Found some CLI instructions on the web, no joy

iPhone tethering not working, Ditto. says cant mount iphone

Other than that performance is very much improved

human 19

D1stant wrote: »

2 problems

PC is Dell Latitude 630 with Broadcom 1490 Wifi controller

Mint sees the adapter (lspci & ifconfig) but wifi is not working. Found some CLI instructions on the web, no joy

iPhone tethering not working, Ditto. says cant mount iphone

Other than that performance is very much improved

searching Broadcom 1490 on linux mint forum...

http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=48564&p=279798&hilit=Broadcom+1490#p281213

googling tether iphone linux: 1st result

http://techie-buzz.com/foss/getting-iphone-internet-tethering-working-in-linux.html

D1stant

I cant see my adapter (I did ealrier when I installed Wifi radar, but cant now for some reason)

eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:1c:23:52:83:e8
inet addr:192.168.1.3 Bcast:192.168.1.255 Mask:255.255.255.0
inet6 addr: fe80::21c:23ff:fe52:83e8/64 Scope:Link
UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
RX packets:11222 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:6344 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
RX bytes:15211971 (15.2 MB) TX bytes:468728 (468.7 KB)
Interrupt:17

lo Link encap:Local Loopback
inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0
inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1
RX packets:39 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:39 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
RX bytes:2883 (2.8 KB) TX bytes:2883 (2.8 KB)

lspci gives this

09:00.0 Ethernet controller: Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5755M Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express (rev 02)
0c:00.0 Network controller: Broadcom Corporation BCM4311 802.11a/b/g (rev 01)

Any ideas?

Thanks

human 19

D1stant wrote: »

I cant see my adapter (I did ealrier when I installed Wifi radar, but cant now for some reason)


Any ideas?

Thanks

I thought this was the relevant post from the thread (although it was from 2010)...


A friend has the BCM4312 in his Dell 1545. He installed the operating system using his wired Ethernet. While still plugged in, he pulled up the System>Administration>Hardware Drivers options. He selected the STA driver, installed it, unplugged his wired Ethernet, rebooted, and the BCM4312 wi-fi was available for configuration. I know this method worked for him.

---

search of BC1490 on Ubuntu website gives this thread

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1848937&highlight=broadcom+1490

Personally, I would also look on the broadcom website for Debian/Ubuntu/Mint drivers

crow242

D1stant wrote: »

0c:00.0 Network controller: Broadcom Corporation BCM4311 802.11a/b/g (rev 01)

Any ideas?

Thanks

Install b43-fwcutter and firmware-b43-installer from the software manager and you might need to reboot for wireless to work.

LiamOSullivan

I've no experience with Mint, but you could try Ubuntu 12.04(Or one of its derivatives; Lubuntu might be a good plan on an old laptop).
When I used 12.04 at a full installation, everything worked perfectly.

I've been having a lot of problems since, but I did a minimal install and have been setting up everything myself(Only have i3 as a DE, and don't even use that too much).

PrzemoF

OP, read this [1]. If you feel lost, unsure what to do or anything else post the results here.

From the info provided you need b43 driver. Installing
firmware-b43-installer package might be enough to solve your problem.

You're a new user, so I'd suggest to reboot after installing. Advanced option: load/check modules manually and restart networking service - no system restart required.

[1] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx

D1stant

Stumped. Not sure where to go from here

I have tried most of the suggestions here and elsewhere

ifconfig still cannot see the adapter

I did a reinstall of Mint 12 beta

ifconfig could not see the adapyer, but system tools, networking saw a wireless MAC but could not switch on wireless

updated all packages

sudo apt-get install b43-fwcutter firmware-b43-installer, rebooted. No joy

In additional drivers activated the Broadcom STA. rebooted. No joy

BTW how do I just restart networking without rebooting the PC?

D1stant

Solved

Reinstalled again.

sudo apt-get install b43-fwcutter

sudo apt-get install b43-fwcutter firmware-b43-installer

Reboot.

Jesus. Finicky though

PrzemoF

Sounds like you had an incorrect driver loaded.

Did you remove STA driver? I think that installing b43 on top of STA might not work.

Anyway, good that you have it working and I'm quite sure it will be easier from now on

This should restart networking:

sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart

This checks if you have b43 driver loaded:

lsmod | grep b43

This loads b43 module manually:

sudo modprobe b43

This removes b43 module:

sudo rmmod b43

However most of the time you don't need to know that. It's handy if something goes wrong.

I strongly recommend to avoid reinstalls - you learn nothing from that and in 99% cases the info what's wrong is in log files (kernel/dmesg/messages/Xorg)

irishdude11

And this is why its not worth using Linux these days. This happens way too much. It doesn't work with some piece of your hardware or a peripheral piece of hardware. And then you have to go and spend hours looking up crap on the ubuntu forums and where-ever else trying to find an answer. And then you find an answer and have to start typing crap into the terminal. And it doesn't work and you are back looking for another answer. And eventually you may get it working, or you may not. It's just pointless in this day and age to be at this craic.

D1stant

irishdude11 wrote: »

And this is why its not worth using Linux these days. This happens way too much. It doesn't work with some piece of your hardware or a peripheral piece of hardware. And then you have to go and spend hours looking up crap on the ubuntu forums and where-ever else trying to find an answer. And then you find an answer and have to start typing crap into the terminal. And it doesn't work and you are back looking for another answer. And eventually you may get it working, or you may not. It's just pointless in this day and age to be at this craic.

I'm completely with you in one regard. I just want to use the PC and not spend hours begging the thing to work. That said, it was a little bit of hassle, but now the machine is 2-3 times faster. So its like having a new laptop. Worth the hassle for me.... so far

PrzemoF

Lads, what if you have a wifi card that doesnt want to work with windows for some unknown reason? Buy a new one/reinstall windows or pray for a miracle?

I organised a small meeting some time ago. 3 users with laptops (ubuntu/pld linus/windows xp) and a mobile hot spot provided by an android device. Linux boxes connectied in no time, xp user gave up after 20 minutes and had to watch presentation over my shoulder as he couldn't connect to the hot spot.

irishdude11, my mother in law is using ubuntu (I did the initial setup about year ago and haven't seen tha laptop since) - believe me she's not aware what is a terminal or how to load a module.

irishdude11

PrzemoF wrote: »

Lads, what if you have a wifi card that doesnt want to work with windows for some unknown reason? Buy a new one/reinstall windows or pray for a miracle?

Neither it will work. And if it doesn't work it's not down to windows it's down to a problem in the card itself. Because when a company that manufactures wifi cards has millions invested in their product you can be sure they will have it working with Windows which has something like 85% market share. They will have a team of professionals paid to constantly maintain the drivers. You are not relying on some random person or group working in their spare time to write an open source driver like you are with Linux.

I organised a small meeting some time ago. 3 users with laptops (ubuntu/pld linus/windows xp) and a mobile hot spot provided by an android device. Linux boxes connectied in no time, xp user gave up after 20 minutes and had to watch presentation over my shoulder as he couldn't connect to the hot spot.

Are you for real here, why are you comparing modern Linux to an 11 year old operating system like XP that is already 3 years past it's mainstream support lifecycle? That's like comparing Windows 7 to a version of Linux that was released 11 years previously in 1998. It's ridiculous.

irishdude11, my mother in law is using ubuntu (I did the initial setup about year ago and haven't seen tha laptop since) - believe me she's not aware what is a terminal or how to load a module.

Good for her. Maybe one day she might try and hook up some external hardware to the pc like an mp3 player/phone/camera and maybe it'll work, maybe it won't and you 'll be on the ubuntu forums for hours trying to sort it out.

One of the problems with Linux is you run into problems that you would never run into on windows and it can take ages to fix, if they are even fixable. I used ubuntu and mint as my main operating systems for two years. They are great operating systems and I enjoyed using them 90% of the time, but its just not worth the hassle for me anymore spending hours looking up answer if I need to get something working. And then Windows 7 runs perfectly all the time and never slows down (one of the reasons I ditched XP for Linux), and has open source software for every task and brilliant commercial software if you want to pay. I think Windows 7 hurt Linux as many people were starting to look into Linux as XP was so old and Vista was crap. It seems once Windows 7 came out, the interest in Linux dryed up big time.

Jagera

D1stant wrote: »

Jesus. Finicky though

This is, in my opinion, why Linux still isn't gathering a lot of pace in the market.

I can say, safely here in the UNIX forum, that it's a better OS for performance & easier to manage but sometimes things are really really difficult to get going.

When I tried to use a wireless UBS modem - no go. Bought an Epson printer - prints fine - scanner doesn't work from pc.

The anomaly with Linux, it's the perfect OS for home users - bit of internet/email/music/photos - but you need to be a bit of a techy to get over those scary hurdles which do come up.

Still.. I use it, and recommend it always. Good luck.

PrzemoF

irishdude11 wrote: »

You are not relying on some random person or group working in their spare time to write an open source driver like you are with Linux.

I'm quite sure you know some of the names from that list:
http://www.remword.com/kps_result/3.4_whole.html

OK xp is old, yet in 3 engineering companies I have contact with it's still the main system used. W7 for home use only?

irishdude11, Let's make a bet: in 10 years time linux will have 75% of the market of PCs and mobile devices (W8 will help big time!).

irishdude11

PrzemoF wrote: »

I'm quite sure you know some of the names from that list:
http://www.remword.com/kps_result/3.4_whole.html

Yeah some big name companies contributed some patches to the kernel. Are their products properly supported on Linux? Not by a long shot. Way way more devices are not supported than are supported. I see Samsung high up there on the list. Go to Samsung's smartphones page and you'll see they offer their Kies software for Windows and Mac OS, no Linux. Microsoft are high up there too. Yet my Microsoft mouse wasn't properly supported.

And on that list the biggest contributer is intel, no surprises there, that's a given. But look at the 2nd and 3rd biggest contributers- unknowns and hobbyists.

That list is irreleveant, it's not a list of companies that fully support Linux, it's a list of companies who added some code to the Linux kernel.

OK xp is old, yet in 3 engineering companies I have contact with it's still the main system used. W7 for home use only?

I don't understand your point? They are using xp because it is not worth upgrading for them cost-wise or hassle wise at this time. What has that got to do with anything?

irishdude11, Let's make a bet: in 10 years time linux will have 75% of the market of PCs and mobile devices (W8 will help big time!).

We are talking about pcs and laptops here. Mobile are a different area altogether, I have an android phone myself.

croo

irishdude11 wrote: »

We are talking about pcs and laptops here. Mobile are a different area altogether, I have an android phone myself.

You wouldn't have if others had not gone against mainstream opinion like yours for the last 20 years and helped to make a viable alternative that is linux.

d'Oracle

You read some funny stuff on here.

Win 7 hurt Linux?
Even if I'm not pedantic about it and I accept it as read that we are talking purely about desktop......How the hell did Win 7 hurt Linux? Half of bugger all people used it before, half of bugger all use it now. Has there been a significant impact on the linux desktop userbase that nobody knows about?

Nobody uses Linux because Windows optimised wireless cards won't work with it?
So its nothing to do with the fact that Computers are put together to work with Windows?
Nothing to do with when I walk into a shop I have a choice of Windows 7 or MacOS?
Nothing to do with the absolute lack of marketing or advertising for desktop linux because they are mostly not-for-profit organisations?

desaparecidos

Funny thread, starts off looking like the answer to the title is, "yes, ditch Windows for Linux" but then cold hard evidence shows us Linux just isn't up to it. If you have to waste time reading blogs and forums and using the command prompt to get a basic installation fully working then something is wrong.

What can you do on Linux that you can't do on Windows? Nothing.

What can you do on Windows that you can't do on Linux? A hell of a lot, and easier.

d'Oracle

desaparecidos wrote: »

Funny thread, starts off looking like the answer to the title is, "yes, ditch Windows for Linux" but then cold hard evidence shows us Linux just isn't up to it.

Isn't up to what?

If you buy a windows pc, it will come with the software for the contained hardware installed or on a disc.

If you build your own, you must ensure that the software is adequate.

If you install a linux distro, you need to make sure the software is set up for the hardware.

desaparecidos wrote: »

If you have to waste time reading blogs and forums and using the command prompt to get a basic installation fully working then something is wrong.

Yes, in this case, the system wasn't set up for all its hardware.
Just like my wifes laptop and her printer when she upgraded from Vista to Windows 7.
I had to spend time online to see how to fix it.
Think I used the prompt too.

desaparecidos wrote: »

What can you do on Linux that you can't do on Windows? Nothing.

What can you do on Windows that you can't do on Linux? A hell of a lot, and easier.

Apart from playing games and Windows specific stuff.....what?

desaparecidos

desaparecidos wrote: »

What can you do on Linux that you can't do on Windows? Nothing.

What can you do on Windows that you can't do on Linux? A hell of a lot, and easier.

Provide some examples please?

croo

desaparecidos wrote: »

What can you do on Linux that you can't do on Windows? Nothing.

Eh..
* Read the source code,
* give a copy to a friend,
* put it on a machine other than the one I bought it on [most windows versions are OEM and so can only be run on the hardware it was purchased with],
* experiment with lots of copies in Virtual Machines without needing to spend a fortune on licenses,
That's before I get to the everyday things like be confident I can browse securely online.

desaparecidos

croo wrote: »

Eh..
* Read the source code,
* give a copy to a friend,
* put it on a machine other than the one I bought it on [most windows versions are OEM and so can only be run on the hardware it was purchased with],
* experiment with lots of copies in Virtual Machines without needing to spend a fortune on licenses,
That's before I get to the everyday things like be confident I can browse securely online.

*Read the source code?????? buhahahahhahaha!!!
*Who needs friends?
*Vast majority of people won't need to do this
*Again, vast majority have no need for this. The types that do might have an MSDN account or just take advantage of the 30 day trial period to do experimenting or just pirate a copy.

desaparecidos

d'Oracle wrote:

Apart from playing games and Windows specific stuff.....what?

NoDrama wrote:

Provide some examples please?

Come on, that's just a silly question.

D1stant

desaparecidos wrote: »

Funny thread, starts off looking like the answer to the title is, "yes, ditch Windows for Linux" but then cold hard evidence shows us Linux just isn't up to it. If you have to waste time reading blogs and forums and using the command prompt to get a basic installation fully working then something is wrong.

What can you do on Linux that you can't do on Windows? Nothing.

What can you do on Windows that you can't do on Linux? A hell of a lot, and easier.

If I didn't put Linux on the machine I would have had to buy a new one. So its really well justified in my case. I've always suspected some kind of conspiracy between Intel and Micorsoft whereby Intel release a faster chip that is need to run the next fat OS, but user experience is a contant

If I compare Window 3.1 running on a 386 processor (I'm old!) with Vista running on Intel® Core™2 Duo CPU T7300 @ 2.00GHz × 2... I don't see any difference from a user point of view. Takes the same time to boot, same time to copy files, open docs etc

With this install of Mint, the machine boots and loads browser and IM in 40 seconds

If your even a little bit technical, Linux wins.

mathperson

Why are using vista for your comparison. Everyone, microsoft included, knows vista was crap and had performance issues. Windows 7 requires less resources than vista and has none if the performance issues. But there is a disadvantage in your situation as you would have to buy it new.

mathperson

croo wrote: »

desaparecidos wrote: »

What can you do on Linux that you can't do on Windows? Nothing.

Eh..
* Read the source code,
* give a copy to a friend,
* put it on a machine other than the one I bought it on [most windows versions are OEM and so can only be run on the hardware it was purchased with],
* experiment with lots of copies in Virtual Machines without needing to spend a fortune on licenses,
That's before I get to the everyday things like be confident I can browse securely online.

You couldnt name one thing that actually involves using the os.

Heres things that you get with windows, stuff that actually matters -
- Ability to run massive range of applications, applications that are industry standard with nothing even close to comparable in the open source world.
- Massive amount of open source software, almost all the best open source software for linux is also on windows.
- By far the best hardware support. No issues with getting hardware to work as the drivers are written specifically for windows by the companies that make the hardware.
- Ability to run all games.

Linux cant compete with windows on desktops/laptops, however it is excellent on phones where the issues i mentioned above arent a factor. In fact i think linux will win out in the phone os battle and it has a big future there. And this will have follow on effects that lead to some big improvements down the line for desktop linux. So linux for phones and maybe down the line it can compete with windows on the desktop but in todays world windows is by far the best desktop os.

croo

mathperson wrote: »

You couldnt name one thing that actually involves using the os.

Heres things that you get with windows, stuff that actually matters -
- Ability to run massive range of applications, applications that are industry standard with nothing even close to comparable in the open source world.
- Massive amount of open source software, almost all the best open source software for linux is also on windows.
- By far the best hardware support. No issues with getting hardware to work as the drivers are written specifically for windows by the companies that make the hardware.
- Ability to run all games.

Linux cant compete with windows on desktops/laptops, however it is excellent on phones where the issues i mentioned above arent a factor. In fact i think linux will win out in the phone os battle and it has a big future there. And this will have follow on effects that lead to some big improvements down the line for desktop linux. So linux for phones and maybe down the line it can compete with windows on the desktop but in todays world windows is by far the best desktop os.

All OS do things like support hardware & run software, I was looking for the difference.
And those are things that Windows cannot do!

How you can list "Massive amount of open source software" as a benefit is beyond me.

I've never had issues with hardware on linux. I have been asked, on numerous occaisions, to help friends & relatives install windows and it is always a nightmare. I just did two laptops a couple of months ago. It took me about two days for each - had I not had ubuntu on a USB key I would not have been able to actually start the machines (windows had crashed & hung on restart) and look at what hardware was installed.
Windows is easy to install when you get the machine pre-installed.

I have plenty of games that won't run on windows. They were written for ataris & playstations but this is the type of BS you read in linux forums. Why won't my game [designed for windows] run under linux? I don't play much games anymore, if I did I think I'd just get a console like most other kids.

What is this massive range of industry applications that nothing can touch?
The only thing that comes to mind is Office but then a huge amount of money from people like you was spent buying its standards a few years back. In my experience, most people know next to nothing about how to use the MS office apps most could use open/libre office and be perfectly happy. Is MS office ubiquitous? Yes, but MS spent massive amounts of their monoply money making it so. That doesn't make it more productive.

Johnboy1951

I find it sorrowful that our educational institutions insist in some cases that particular proprietary software is used or that projects are submitted in some proprietary format, when there are alternative software applications & open standards available.

Within the last week I had occasion to install Win 7 and Adobe Premiere on a PC so that a student of multimedia could complete a project. The less said about the origin of those the better.

The student was capable of completing the project in full without using those pieces of software.
But the institution/lecturer insisted that no other means of generating the result was acceptable.

When I asked about this, I was told it is common practice.

To my way of looking at it, this is not education.
This is a means of promoting particular proprietary software, to the exclusion of alternative proprietary software or open source software.

It is long past the time when our educational establishments took a good look at what they are doing and why.

Seems to me it has nothing at all to do with education ....

BTW: It was interesting to note that open source software, running on Linux, was used to prepare the source of the project before it could be used in the project.

D1stant

mathperson wrote: »

Why are using vista for your comparison. Everyone, microsoft included, knows vista was crap and had performance issues. Windows 7 requires less resources than vista and has none if the performance issues. But there is a disadvantage in your situation as you would have to buy it new.

Well Vista is what the machine was loaded with, but the same goes for every windows release I have ever used from windows 3.0, 3.1, 95, NT, 2000, etc

If Vista was crap why was it released? Because MSFT invented the upgrade game and there are enough lemmings that blindingly upgrade, are disappointed but believe that the next release will be better

This has been going on for 20 years!

Cork24

I dont like the new Ubuntu

mathperson

D1stant wrote: »

Well Vista is what the machine was loaded with, but the same goes for every windows release I have ever used from windows 3.0, 3.1, 95, NT, 2000, etc

If Vista was crap why was it released? Because MSFT invented the upgrade game and there are enough lemmings that blindingly upgrade, are disappointed but believe that the next release will be better

This has been going on for 20 years!

What are you talking going about...every single windows release except Vista and ME were big improvements over the previous version. It is common knowledge that microsoft had a dud on their hands with Vista but did an excellent job on Windows 7.

mathperson

croo wrote: »

All OS do things like support hardware & run software, I was looking for the difference.
And those are things that Windows cannot do!

How you can list "Massive amount of open source software" as a benefit is beyond me.

I've never had issues with hardware on linux. I have been asked, on numerous occaisions, to help friends & relatives install windows and it is always a nightmare. I just did two laptops a couple of months ago. It took me about two days for each - had I not had ubuntu on a USB key I would not have been able to actually start the machines (windows had crashed & hung on restart) and look at what hardware was installed.
Windows is easy to install when you get the machine pre-installed.

The issues of crashing and hanging and slowdown over time with Vista and XP have ceased to exist with Windows 7. And it is trivial to install.

I have plenty of games that won't run on windows. They were written for ataris & playstations but this is the type of BS you read in linux forums. Why won't my game [designed for windows] run under linux? I don't play much games anymore, if I did I think I'd just get a console like most other kids.

Why are you bringing different platforms in to it? Linux and Windows both operate on the PC platform. Every game written for the PC platform works on windows. How many work on linux?

What is this massive range of industry applications that nothing can touch?
The only thing that comes to mind is Office but then a huge amount of money from people like you was spent buying its standards a few years back. In my experience, most people know next to nothing about how to use the MS office apps most could use open/libre office and be perfectly happy. Is MS office ubiquitous? Yes, but MS spent massive amounts of their monoply money making it so. That doesn't make it more productive.

What applications? Photoshop, Illustrator, music production and editing applications such as Pro Tools/Cubase, video editing applications like Premiere and After Effects, all the best development tools such as Visual Studio/Expression Blend/etc.., SQL Server, all the applications written by hardware manufacturers for interfacing with their products (eg Samsung Kies for Samsung smarthphones), all game engines and game creation tools, then there are tons and tons of industry specific products that are made for the Windows platform precisely because it is the industry standard OS... And there are Windows versions of just about all the main open source applications on Linux. So with Linux you are limited to a very small subset of applications. Why would anyone want to limit themselves to a subset of the available software I will never understand.

One thing I cant understand with Linux is why there is no decent assembly IDE in this day and age. For an OS that is supposed to be more technical and is often studied in computer science I cant see why one hasnt been written yet. There is a program called Nemiver but I couldnt get that to work after trying it on a few different installs of Ubuntu and Mint on different pcs. So I went through an entire book on assembly using gdb which was painful. And then once I finished that and started doing some shellcoding I went back to Windows and was able to use Visual Studio for assembly - panels for viewing stack, registers, multiple areas of memory, threads....etc...Someone needs to write something like this for Linux as it is not right in this age to have to use the terminal for this stuff.

D1stant

mathperson wrote: »

What are you talking going about...every single windows release except Vista and ME were big improvements over the previous version. It is common knowledge that microsoft had a dud on their hands with Vista but did an excellent job on Windows 7.

QED

p.s. Do you work for MSFT?

d'Oracle

desaparecidos wrote: »

Come on, that's just a silly question.

Just trolling then?

PrzemoF

Yes, folks you're right: ms applications are unreal. I found out sometime ago that outlook has an option to make attached image look like it was projected in 3D on a metallic surface. This is a must-have for every single mailing application and since the discovery I no longer can live without it.

Most of the apps under windows try to do everything for a simple reason: interaction between 2 applications created by 2 different companies is non-existent. The ammo in the fight are closed proprietry file formats and getting less for more. Example: old adobe software allowed me to batch print pdfs form command line. It was working and bullet-proof solution. The option is gone from new version. I can do batch plotting from windows (select & print), but in the result half of the pdfs are not printed and if pdfs are too big then the plotter is loosing some of the content of the drawings (i.e. the pipe is there, but the piperack is gone). Any advice? If I had that problem with linux I could:
- fill a bug report
- try to downgrade
- try to fix the code (yes, I could do it)
- try a different file manager/windows manager
- make a simple batch file to plot a pdf, wait 10 seconds and plot a next one (command line, of course).

With windows all I can do is plot pdfs manually one-by-one: waste of time and money.

Anyway, the new ubuntu is out there: time for some tests .If you're using windows right know try to go to ubuntu.com, download it and test - livecds are perfect for that,

conor.hogan.2

Live CDs or Virtual Machines. Personally I prefer Vms, I hate having to restart.