The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 2)

doctoremma wrote: »

Is this your answer, that the earth rotates on its axis a total of 360 degrees in one solar day?

Tick here: Yes/No.

Today is April 19th

It is a 24 hour day

It is a rotation of the planet through 360 degrees

Here is the proof -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeOGxil6SMw

It is a normal day as the Earth turns once and the world wakes and life responds to the appearance of the Sun.This is God's creation and if you and the pseudo-Christians want to condemn me as mad for enjoying that correspondence between 24 hours and one rotation then I can live with comfortably.

What is hard to live with are students who never get to appreciate how humans worked out the calendar system,the 24 hour average day from natural noon cycles,how the astronomers actually worked out how the Earth moves and all the other things.The only obstacle is followers of a toxic strain of empiricism and their pseudo-Christian cronies who have no appreciation of Church involvement with astronomy and the evolutionary sciences and can't appreciate why these things are important for a vibrant Christianity.

Now accept it or don't,one 24 hour day on Earth is also one rotation and if you can't extract that from the video above then so be it.It is not a battle for submission but of familiarity and nobody has an excuse any longer,at least at this basic level so that much is accomplished.

gkell3 wrote: »

All I see is a hatred of simplicity and common sense for what strangeness is there in a time lapse footage on what one rotation of the Earth looks like within a 24 hour day and its effects?.

Sorry gkell but you are still not answering the question. If what you say is true then surely you should be able to answer the question?

gkell3 wrote: »

It is the most amazing mass delusion the people of the planet are ever likely to encounter and it is something so simple and straightforward.

Is there a sane person who understands that February 29th is a 24 hour day and also one rotation of the Earth with all the effects of rotation ?.It is also the 1461st day which closes out the 4 orbital circuits around the Sun.

Within that period there are 1461 natural noon cycles which answer to the term AM/PM denoting the daily event where a location turns to noon and these natural noon cycles are converted into 24 hour AM/PM cycles which correspond to Monday turning into Tuesday into Wednesday into Thursdays with each 24 hour day keeping in step with the rotation of the Earth as it turns to noon.

"Here take notice, that the Sun or the Earth passeth the 12. Signes, or makes an entire revolution in the Ecliptick in 365 days, 5 hours 49 min. or there about, and that those days, reckon'd from noon to noon, are of different lenghts; as is known to all that are vers'd in Astronomy. Now between the longest and the shortest of those days, a day may be taken of such a length, as 365 such days, 5. hours &c. (the same numbers as before) make up, or are equall to that revolution: And this is call'd the Equal or Mean day, according to which the Watches are to be set; and therefore the Hour or Minute shew'd by the Watches, though they be perfectly Iust and equal, must needs differ almost continually from those that are shew'd by the Sun, or are reckon'd according to its Motion. But this Difference is regular, and is otherwise call'd the Aequation" Huygens

http://adcs.home.xs4all.nl/Huygens/06/kort-E.html

The 24 hour day never diverges from observed noon which is caused by the rotation of the Earth.The transfer of 1461 days in 4 years to 1461 rotations in 4 orbital circuits is an intricate process but it still amounts to the fact that when the sun rises tomorrow and sets within the same 24 hour period,you will be witnessing the effect of one rotation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IinlmnaZ0Tc

The Lat/Long system and the AM/PM cycles work in tandem which is why you have clocks and the history of this issue is so well known that to even doubt it deserves scorn even though there are many components that require a complete explanation such as where the equation of time comes from and how it relates to the differences in daily and orbital motions -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIywgw9_1sQ&feature=relmfu

The herd mentality directed at me means nothing,the Earth turns once in a day and at a rate of 15 degrees per hour,there are enough articles and video out there to make that plain enough.

If what you say is true it should be relatively easy to answer the question I presented to you. Not being able to answer that question would suggest that what you say is not true, wouldn't you agree?

gkell3 wrote: »

Today is Friday, 20th April.

It is a 24 hour day.

The Earth will turn once.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxrIMHKobk0

The Christian looks at the video of all the daily effects within a 24 hour period,shrugs and moves on as they have no reason to believe that tomorrow will be any different and the day after that.

The 'theory of gravity' bunch have built an imbalance between one 24 hour day and one rotation so they can't look at a simple time lapse footage of a 24 hour day and state that yes,it is the Earth turning once as dawn breaks and the descent through twilight into darkness in the period or what is effectively the most easily understood known fact.

The Longitude problem makes the whole thing easy to understand and it begins about 2 minutes into this video so students and interested adults would find it easy enough to take onboard the principles -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIywgw9_1sQ&feature=relmfu


This is not about submission but familiarity,it now comes down to active participation of the Christian community to correct this empirical monstrosity or practice the sin of silence.I have made the necessary contribution towards regaining a stable scientific narrative by bringing up the history of timekeeping and its links to astronomy and I can do no more beyond this point.All these Christians expressing opinions about God and Jesus would be better off expressing concerns as to what students are taught and not taught and the utter lack of responsibility and common sense is the most striking aspect of this major topic,despite what those moralizing Christians might wish to believe,science is a facet of Christianity rather than being in opposition to or equal to Christian thinking.

You have said all that many many times before, but it does not address the question I put to you, a question you are continuing to ignore.

From that we can draw the following conclusions.

- What you are saying is not true.
- You are aware that what you are saying is not true.
- You wish to avoid dealing with the question because you know what you are saying is not true.

You can continue to copy and paste previous posts of yours all you like gkell but that is not answering the question put to you, as I'm sure you are well aware.

Regards
Wick

Zombrex wrote: »

You have said all that many many times before, but it does not address the question I put to you, a question you are continuing to ignore.

You don't have a question son,you have a 350 year empirical indoctrination working against you and it surfaces dramatically at this particular point which just about everyone can handle no matter how indifferent they choose to be.

It is not just the willful vandalism of astronomy and its historical and technical details on one side but the influence on students,what their heroes should be and how they reason properly which is equally important.Unlike these Christian airheads who imagine that empiricists, and their complete incomprehension of Christ and Christianity are reasonable people,I have known nothing other than a more narrow minded and meanspirited bunch who don't possess the intelligence to match all the effects within a 24 hour period with one rotation of the planet.

It is students that have the problem of the cosy relationship between the moralizing Christian and the dumb empiricist for each accepts their roles as a given,Jesus rightly overturned a few tables in this respect and it most certainly needs to be done again.

In science,technical facts mean everything and if your point of departure is that you cannot appreciate why the temperature goes up and down daily due to the rotation of the Earth,you would have no business whatsoever discussing climate.The attempt to inject guilt into the wider population based on the idea that humans can control global temperature within a certain range because of computer modeling is another of these horrible consequences of Christians abandoning their heritage for none of this would have arisen if there existed a stable astronomical narrative and reasonable people behind it.

Today is Saturday 21st April

It is one 24 hour day

The Earth will turn once.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v2L2UGZJAM&feature=related

No matter how gorgeous,enormous or small an object is,it sweeps around in its daily circuit to face the Sun one day after the next and that is what makes science worthwhile,not how well you can hide an error we inherited from the late 17th century that attempts to create an imbalance between days and rotations.

Zombrex wrote: »

I do have a question, one you are ignoring. I can repeat the question for you if you like

All questions are answered for everyone based on the ability to accept that all the effects within a 24 hour period reflect the Earth turning once,a normal fact that people recognize and either move on or get into the details behind this primary fact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIywgw9_1sQ&feature=relmfu

I do have a lot to say of Christians who positively refuse to accept the correspondence between a round and rotating Earth and the connection with a 24 hour day which can easily be grasped by the explanation a few minutes into that tutorial.If you can't make it that far then remain with that 1465 rotation/1461 day imbalance that exists only in your imagination.

Are you enjoying today as the Earth sweeps round in its daily cycle ? -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rfL00UCANA

If you can manage to explain how 24 hours does not keep in step with one rotation,including Feb 29th as the 1461st day that completes 4 orbital circuits you can have your 1465 rotations in the same period.The fact is that you are seeing Christians doing nothing and that tell you how much they care for God's creation hence the emptiness in their words.

Zombrex wrote: »

Once again instead of attempting to answer my question you simply re-post paragraphs that you have already posted.

I am actually looking at the behavior of Christians rather than you,after all,what can you say somebody who sees the effects of the Earth within a 24 hour period and cannot accept that it keeps in step with one rotation of the Earth.

I discovered that Christians no more wish to know about the technical and historical details of science than the empiricists do,the quote I used from Augustine was written by Galileo in his defense of his own views against elements in the Church who did not understand the details of the system of planetary dynamics no more than you do.

What is disturbing is not so much all the productive sciences that are being drowned out by empirical junk,not even the vandalism wrought on the work of all Christian and non Christian astronomers but most certainly that students are being exposed to doctrines which portray Arian works like Newton toxic strain of empiricism as though they were achievements when they are not.They actually represent,at least in respect to planetary dynamics, the genuine objections the Pope had to the approach of using predictions to prove planetary motions,at least from the scant information I have of Urban's views and central to this topic where empiricists are insistent in 1465 rotations in 1461 days which defies common sense -

"Here lurked the danger of serious misunderstanding. Maffeo Barberini, while he was a Cardinal, had counselled Galileo to treat Copernicanism as a hypothesis, not as a confirmed truth. But ‘hypothesis’ meant two very different things. On the one hand, astronomers were assumed to deal only with hypotheses, i.e. accounts of the observed motions of the stars and planets that were not claimed to be true. Astronomical theories were mere instruments for calculation and prediction, a view that is often called ‘instrumentalism’. On the other hand, a hypothesis could also be understood as a theory that was not yet proved but was open to eventual confirmation. This was a ‘realist’ position. Galileo thought that Copernicanism was true, and presented it as a hypothesis, i.e. as a provisional idea that was potentially physically true, and he discussed the pros and cons, leaving the issue undecided. This did not correspond to the instrumentalist view of Copernicanism that was held by Maffeo Barberini and others. They thought that Copernicus’ system was a purely instrumental device, and Maffeo Barberini was convinced that it could never be proved. This ambiguity pervaded the whole Galileo Affair."

http://www.unav.es/cryf/newlightistanbul.html

shizz wrote: »

Gkell you are just wrong wrong WRONG on this matter. You have been told this in COUNTLESS threads. It is not only the rotation of the earth that you have to take into account, it is it's movement in orbit, this amounts to a revolution of more than 360 degrees to get the sun back in the place it was yesterday to determine the same time.

Done.

Look at you,it only seems like a few weeks ago you were asking me about Venus-

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056571913

I assure you,Feb 29th as a 24 hour day, one rotation of the planet and the 1461st day that closes out 4 orbital circuits allows you to appreciate that daily and orbital motions are separate.It is the familiar Lat/Long system in tandem with the AM/PM cycles which keeps it all together and no point in asking you to change your mind and look at any tutorial on longitude ,had readers taken the common sense view on board,I would not have to keep it front and center for so long.Maybe previous explanations were too complicated ,Christian or not,so I did find a basic one for you -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w_Vr2KbJrw

No point in lauding the brilliance of Augustine if today I have to resort to having children explain something to adults and make no mistake about it,it doesn't matter if you are a Christian or not,if the intention is not to budge from entrenched positions and raise the standards of either science or matter of faiths,one of the central tenets of Christianity is not to try and appease such people -

" I know; such men do not deduce their conclusion from its premises or
establish it by reason, but they accommodate (I should have said
discommode and distort) the premises and reasons to a conclusion which
for them is already established and nailed down. No good can come of
dealing with such people, especially to the extent that their company
may be not only unpleasant but dangerous." Galileo

shizz wrote: »

Brilliant, using a dumbed down kids video to get your point across. The earth does not rotate 360 degrees in exactly 24 hours.

Do you wish to hear it from the man who designed the watch on your hand because it isn't sinking in at any level,Christian or not -

"The application of a Timekeeper to this discovery is founded upon the
following principles: the earth's surface is divided into 360 equal
parts (by imaginary lines drawn from North to South) which are called
Degrees of Longitude; and its daily revolution Eastward round its own
axis is performed in 24 hours; consequently in that period, each of
those imaginary lines or degrees, becomes successively opposite to the
Sun (which makes the noon or precise middle of the day at each of
those degrees) and it must follow, that from the time any one of
those lines passes the Sun, till the next passes, must be just four
minutes, for 24 hours being divided by 360 will give that quantity; so
that for every degree of Longitude we sail Westward, it will be noon
with us four minutes the later, and for every degree Eastward four
minutes the sooner, and so on in proportion for any greater or less
quantity. Now, the exact time of the day at the place where we are,
can be ascertained by well known and easy observations of the Sun if
visible for a few minutes at any time from his being ten degrees high
until within an hour of noon, or from an hour after noon until he is
only 10 degrees high in the afternoon; if therefore, at any time when
such observation is made, a Timekeeper tells us at the same moment
what o'clock it is at the place we sailed from, our Longitude is
clearly discovered." John Harrison

http://books.google.ie/books?id=8roAAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA89&dq=remarks#v=onepage&q&f=false

Readers should read that thread from a few weeks ago which explains the system of Copernicus and line of sight observations which are within easy reach of anyone today due to graphics ,time lapse footage and online orrerys to get a feel for the historical perspectives -

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2056571913

The recent fad of judging others doesn't apply here,it takes talent,effort or both to get into the stream of astronomical thinking and I have obliterated the empirical approach which has temporary destroyed the ability of people with real talent from looking at the same picture Copernicus,Kepler and Galileo saw without any of the modern tools which make it so easy.

Like all things,you had no difficulty accepting my explanations before I showed why these explanations are not more accessible to students because of the parasitic nature of empiricism and now you act as though you understood detailed astronomical knowledge.With no condescension to anyone and much encouragement,I demonstrated how easy it all is with familiarity yet now everyone is an expert.That is the way it always has been for genuine Christians and even Jesus himself spoke of it -

"I am not speaking of all of you; I know whom I have chosen. But the Scripture will be fulfilled, ‘He who ate my bread has lifted his heel against me.’" Jesus

The great Copernicus did not fear Church censure,he feared the mob who would not be capable of handling delicate arguments and he had every reason to,that much I can testify to from my own accomplishments in evolutionary geology,climate and astronomy -

".. they wanted the very beautiful thoughts attained by great men of
deep devotion not to be ridiculed by those who are reluctant to exert
themselves vigorously in any literary pursuit unless it is lucrative;
or if they are stimulated to the nonacquisitive study of philosophy by
the exhortation and example of others, yet because of their dullness
of mind they play the same part among philosophers as drones among
bees. When I weighed these considerations, the scorn which I had
reason to fear on account of the novelty and unconventionality of my
opinion almost induced me to abandon completely the work which I had
undertaken." Copernicus letter to Paul III.

lmaopml wrote: »

Gkell, I love learning, but I have to understand the tutor.

Considering that you probably have watched the empiricists dig in their heels as to what is behind all the events experienced within a 24 hour period with their odd mismatch between a 24 hour day and rotation,this leaves you to affirm something so amazingly simple that a child could explain it to you -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w_Vr2KbJrw

Do you really want to get into a Biblical quotation warfare with empiricists who refuse to accept a fact that is so immediate to human experience that it actually takes an effort to ignore it ?.I see these empirical numbskulls handle the Christian texts with impunity the same way they handle astronomical insights and methods and the simple fact that they couldn't reach a basic conclusion to save their lives says more about the Christian community than it does about them.Let them mock Christianity if they so wish,it blows back in their face in the most obvious of ways for those who understand those things of faith correctly hence the greatness of God.

The priests of Israel such as Caiaphas and Nicodemus did understand Jesus up to a point and why the health of their nation depended on his message,a message which spread to the wider world in spite of the protestations of people who couldn't see it and still can't -

"So the chief priests and the Pharisees convened the Sanhedrin and said, “What are we going to do? This man is performing many signs.If we leave him alone, all will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our land and our nation.” But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, “You know nothing,nor do you consider that it is better for you that one man should die instead of the people, so that the whole nation may not perish.”He did not say this on his own, but since he was high priest for that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation,and not only for the nation, but also to gather into one the dispersed children of God."

http://www.usccb.org/bible/john/11


True prophesy is knowing what is important when nobody else does and that is what I love about the Johnannine text,far from contending with people who are empty vessels,it keeps them on the back foot and addresses people who can understand the life of the spirit.You might even learn that lesson from this thread.