The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 2)

Zombrex wrote: »

Again a 24 hour day is based on the time between high noons, not the Earth's rotation.

There are 1461 noons in 1461 days which correspond to 4 years and 4 orbital circuits of the Earth.Get back to me when you can say without the slightest hesitation that the 24 hours of Monday followed by the 24 hours of Tuesday keep in step with all the other days and rotations you experience throughout your life.

Of course,being an empiricist,you insist on a mismatch between rotations and days so we have nothing to discuss,the issue is strictly an issue between Christians and their lack of common sense and responsibility to not only the astronomical heritage of the past and genuine great men of science and to students who have to suffer through a cult ideology that is empiricism and its 'scientific method'.

Zombrex wrote: »

What are the other rotations I experience in my life? Anyway a day is defined as 24 hours, since it is based on the time between high noons, not the Earths rotation.

A day is officially defined as 86,400 seconds, which is exactly 24 hours

60 (seconds) x 60 (minutes) x 24 (hours) = 86,400 seconds.

A day is not defined as 23 hours 56 minutes. So again you are arguing against a position that doesn't exist. Which again leads me to wonder why you are so angry?

I assure you and everyone else here,today the 19th April 2012 and all the experiences of God's creation within this 24 hour period is one rotation of the planet.

I see the pseudo-Christian take Augustine out of context when unable to figure out astronomical observations,he does not say it doesn't matter,he determines that it he does not have the capacity or the time to deal with it -

"To these men I reply that it would require many subtle and profound reasonings to find out which of these things is actually so;.." Augustine

Something is really not sinking in,not penetrating into the minds and hearts of readers here,the people promoting the 'theory of gravity',the same people who pour scorn on Christianity,work off a 1465 rotation/1461 day imbalance and do I have to spell this out that this is impossible,the same way a flat Earth is impossible.

A person who can't interpret the experience of God's creation within a 24 hour day as one rotation can't build on that fact no more than they could build on a flat Earth ideology and I really don't rate empiricists in altering to the correct view.

Take a calendar from a wall and count the actual days and rotations from January 1st to December 31st and as this year is a leap year there are both 366 days and 366 rotations of the planet.The idiotic Christian who doesn't get the fact that it was the Church who refined the calendar system to take account that the leap day correction is an over-compensation however appreciation of Church history in this important area is not possible if the dominant fact of one rotation in one 24 hour day is ignored.

gkell3 wrote: »

Something is really not sinking in,not penetrating into the minds and hearts of readers here,the people promoting the 'theory of gravity',the same people who pour scorn on Christianity,work off a 1465 rotation/1461 day imbalance and do I have to spell this out that this is impossible,the same way a flat Earth is impossible.

You're posts aren't particularly clear, so I just need to check, do you also doubt the legitimacy of gravity? If so, you've managed to make creationists look sensible in contrast. :eek:

gkell3 wrote: »

You begin with the fact that all the experiences of the Earth within a 24 hour period is due to the rotation of the planet,then you do what the Egyptians did,consider the number of days against the annual cycle.They discovered that the annual event of the flooding of the Nile did not happen after a continuous cycle of 365 days but an extra day was needed to keep the number of days fixed to the annual flooding event -

on account of the precession of the rising of Sirius by one day in the course of 4 years, therefore it shall be, that the year of 360 days and the 5 days added to their end, so one day as feast of Benevolent Gods [the pharaoh and family] be from this day after every 4 years added to the 5 epagomenae before the New Year, whereby all men shall learn, that what was a little defective in the order as regards the seasons and the year, as also the opinions which are contained in the rules of the learned on the heavenly
orbits, are now corrected and improved" Canopus Decree

This is why we have 3 years of 365 days and 1 year of 366 days where the cycle began on Mar 1st this year and the orbital cycle will end 4 years later on Feb 29th 2016 as the 1461st day and 1461st rotation of this great planet.The leap day is a statement of the fact that daily and orbital motions are completely separate and from there into explaining the Lat/Long system and the AM/PM cycles which is intricate as explaining the workings of a watch or a cell.

You have these Christian blackguards turning a blind eye to the astronomical heritage of the Church and that creature who managed to misdirect the statement of Augustine to excuse the consideration of the topic is no different that those blackguards who turned a blind eye to the rottenness that was going on in this country until we lost out sovereignty.If you can't maintain a standard of one rotation in a 24 hour day then you have all the inspirational qualities and the intellectual standard of a flat Earther.

It is quite difficult to figure out what exactly you are arguing for. Again your posts are taken mostly up with anger and misplaced aggression and general ignorance over what a day is.

You appear to be saying that leap years are wrong or unnecessary. Surely if that is the case then the calendars should have shifted far away from the Winter/Summer cycle, since leap years have been going for over a thousand years.

We find this has not happened. The summer solstice still occurs at the same time each year. If we were unnecessarily adding days for the last thousand years this should change every few years as we add days.

Or perhaps you believe this is a trick of the devil? Who knows. Again I think you need to go speak to someone about why you are so angry.

doctoremma wrote: »

Please tell me how many degrees you think the earth rotates in one solar day.

Why don't you take the answer of the actual man who invented accurate watches based on the fact that 15 degrees of geographical separation on the Earth surface equates to 1 hour time difference as the Earth turns 360 degrees in 24 hours -

"The application of a Timekeeper to this discovery is founded upon the
following principles: the earth's surface is divided into 360 equal
parts (by imaginary lines drawn from North to South) which are called
Degrees of Longitude; and its daily revolution Eastward round its own
axis is performed in 24 hours; consequently in that period, each of
those imaginary lines or degrees, becomes successively opposite to the
Sun (which makes the noon or precise middle of the day at each of
those degrees) and it must follow, that from the time any one of
those lines passes the Sun, till the next passes, must be just four
minutes, for 24 hours being divided by 360 will give that quantity; so
that for every degree of Longitude we sail Westward, it will be noon
with us four minutes the later, and for every degree Eastward four
minutes the sooner, and so on in proportion for any greater or less
quantity. Now, the exact time of the day at the place where we are,
can be ascertained by well known and easy observations of the Sun if
visible for a few minutes at any time from his being ten degrees high
until within an hour of noon, or from an hour after noon until he is
only 10 degrees high in the afternoon; if therefore, at any time when
such observation is made, a Timekeeper tells us at the same moment
what o'clock it is at the place we sailed from, our Longitude is
clearly discovered." John Harrison

You wouldn't spent two seconds reading the work of a man who spent 50 years contending with the most narrow minded,mean spirited people who sought to undermine his invention because Newton declared longitude was not to be found by watches but by empiricists.As for these blackguards here call who respect neither Church history nor an individual Christian like Harrison and his work by knowingly ignoring the most basic fact known,they hardly act like Christians.

As for you,arguing against one 24 hour day and one rotation doesn't bother you in the slightest no more than a creationist or a flat Earther is oblivious to historical or technical details.

shizz wrote: »

Honestly guys, debating with Gkell is an exercise in futility. It's been done so many times.

Yes he does have a tendency to flatly refuse to answer basic questions when asked.

Surely he must realize that he is doing that. I can't figure out if he is just trolling or whether we are genuinely observing something with serious anger and mental issues having a nervous break down "on air". I hope it is the former, but if it is the latter again all I we can do is hope he goes to speak to someone about it.

lmaopml wrote: »

ok gkell, perhaps if you explain your problem than people would understand a little better.
.

I don't have a problem but students certainly do.

You completely misdirected the antecedent sentence of Augustine in order to excuse consideration of the topic in front of you,a topic so obvious as it comes within the immediate experience of a single day.

Augustine excused himself as a genuine Christian would by virtue of incapacity to handle the details and not because the topic is unimportant as astronomy always sat within Christianity and all the centuries after Augustine have demonstrated that it did until this present Church abandoned astronomy to the empiricists who mangled every known fact .

Are you so lacking in appreciation of God's creation that you would knowingly accept a flat Earth because you feel knowledge of the attributes of the planet are not required as a Christian ?.Don't believe for one second that this issue is in anyway substantially different than getting rid of a flat Earth ideology and the attempt to bury genuine inspiration of astronomers,inventors and explorers who created the system you will use today.

Zombrex wrote: »

It is quite difficult to figure out what exactly you are arguing for. Again your posts are taken mostly up with anger and misplaced aggression and general ignorance over what a day is.

You appear to be saying that leap years are wrong or unnecessary. Surely if that is the case then the calendars should have shifted far away from the Winter/Summer cycle, since leap years have been going for over a thousand years.

We find this has not happened. The summer solstice still occurs at the same time each year. If we were unnecessarily adding days for the last thousand years this should change every few years as we add days.

Or perhaps you believe this is a trick of the devil? Who knows. Again I think you need to go speak to someone about why you are so angry.

Here is a nice video for you son,it shows the Earth rotating from space once in a day -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxrIMHKobk0

If you can find a way to squeeze 4 extra rotations into 1461 days then good for you but for everyone else,there are 1461 rotations in 1461 days even if the system takes quite a bit of explaining where the natural noon AM/PM cycles mesh with 24 AM/PM cycles.

If Christians can't believe in Earthly things that they can see,how will they make sense of Christian things that they can't,it is a fundamental tenet of Christian faith -

“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? " Jesus to Nicodemus

An uninspired attitude to nature ,and this is what your 1465 rotation/1461 day imbalance represents,is the sign of a weak mind insofar as if you can't interpret the experience of your body within a 24 hour day in terms of the dynamic behind the day,how would you interpret the things of the spirit within your body.The saying of Jesus is purely practical and while you are excused because you are an empiricist,the same cannot be said for people who declare themselves Christian.

If I am called mad for believing the Earth turns once in a day then I can live with that but I assure you students should not have to suffer an indoctrination by people who refuse to accept the Earth turns once in 24 hours and that I do mind.Indignation makes me human and those without it are dead to themselves and their surroundings.

Doc Farrell wrote: »

Zombrex it is because I agree with you that I ask you and other posters to please be careful what they say and to remember that this is a Christianity forum. If anyone disagrees with a poster please do not ask too personal a question, it's only a forum.
In this case, please be careful.

Interesting reactions from people with no technical knowledge of astronomy and which includes the explanation for the use of clocks in tandem with the Earth;s geography once in a 24 hour day.

Galileo encountered your type of mind which becomes ill in its inability to accept basic facts that no person in history ever doubted until somebody in the late 17th century drew a silly conclusion which tried to split apart the normal progression of days in step with rotations.He wrote -

" I have heard such things put forth as I should blush to repeat--not
so much to avoid discrediting their authors (whose names could always
be withheld) as to refrain from detracting so greatly from the honor
of the human race. In the long run my observations have convinced me
that some men, reasoning preposterously, first establish some
conclusion In their minds which, either because of its being their own
or because of their having received it from some person who has their
entire confidence, impresses them so deeply that one finds it
impossible ever to get it out of their heads. Such arguments in
support of their fixed idea as they hit upon themselves or hear set
forth by others, no matter how simple and stupid these may be, gain
their instant acceptance and applause. On the other hand whatever is
brought forward against it, however ingenious and conclusive, they
receive with disdain or with hot rage--if indeed it does not make them
ill " Galileo

You will close out today as another rotation of the Earth and experience another one tomorrow and continue to do so day after day and just like Galileo remarked,the 1465 rotation/1461 day conclusion is a dishonor to the human race and an ill-thought out observation.

You have the explanation of John Harrison in front of you,if you can't read and accept that explanation then you can count yourself as the type of person Galileo was commenting on.Nothing personal,just pure technical details.