Garda with no licience,tax, and bald tyres kills two and gets a fine!

hondasam · 19-04-2012 05:41PM

HigginsJ wrote: »

Thats what i'm wondering. I mean, he did kill them, unitentionally and am wondering if he could face those charges

It was an accident.

Ellis Dee · 19-04-2012 05:41PM

If a society wants its citizens to respect the law, it must demand exceptionally high standards of those who are paid to exercise public power. :cool:

A police officer who drives without a licence, has not paid his road tax (and is thereby defrauding the taxpayer) and, by having bald tyres, is on the road in a potentially dangerous vehicle, does not meet the standard of probity that it is reasonable to expect of someone in his position, and he is providing others with an excuse to disregard the law. He likewise can not plead poverty or shortage of funds, as might be the case with someone who is unemployed or enjoys less pay and benefits than our boys in blue.:rolleyes:

A person like him has no place in the police force of a democratic country, and I hope the Garda Ombudsman soon comes to the same conclusion.:)

KarlDrake · 19-04-2012 05:44PM

Kess73 wrote: »

Yes. The Garda driving and his passenger who is also a garda.

The vehicle or vehicles that the two men came from did not stick around and left the scene of the accident, and afaik none of them have come forward to give their side and nor have any of the family members of the deceased said how the two men from Cork happened to be lying on a stretch of Motorway just miles outside Limerick city.

Seemed quite odd to me at the time that the other car would leave and that no proper explanation was ever given as to how the men got to Limerick or how they were to return to Cork. One thing that did stand out was that at least one of them was well known to the Cork gardai, and as such maybe whoever was driving their car/cars were as well.

It is not exactly a stretch of motorway that you would walk to as it is a fair walk from the city and even a fair walk from the nearest bus stop or pub/club.

Thanks for that. Most peculiar set of circumstances.

Kess73 · 19-04-2012 05:47PM

Ellis Dee wrote: »

If a society wants its citizens to respect the law, it must demand exceptionally high standards of those who are paid to exercise public power. :cool:

A police officer who drives without a licence, has not paid his road tax (and is thereby defrauding the taxpayer) and, by having bald tyres, is on the road in a potentially dangerous vehicle, does not meet the standard of probity that it is reasonable to expect of someone in his position, and he is providing others with an excuse to disregard the law. He likewise can not plead poverty or shortage of funds, as might be the case with someone who is unemployed or enjoys less pay and benefits than our boys in blue.:rolleyes:

A person like him has no place in the police force of a democratic country, and I hope the Garda Ombudsman soon comes to the same conclusion.:)

He pleaded guilty to all the charges put against him and did not try to plead poverty or make any other excuses.

hondasam · 19-04-2012 05:53PM

Ellis Dee wrote: »

If a society wants its citizens to respect the law, it must demand exceptionally high standards of those who are paid to exercise public power. :cool:

A police officer who drives without a licence, has not paid his road tax (and is thereby defrauding the taxpayer) and, by having bald tyres, is on the road in a potentially dangerous vehicle, does not meet the standard of probity that it is reasonable to expect of someone in his position, and he is providing others with an excuse to disregard the law. He likewise can not plead poverty or shortage of funds, as might be the case with someone who is unemployed or enjoys less pay and benefits than our boys in blue.:rolleyes:

A person like him has no place in the police force of a democratic country, and I hope the Garda Ombudsman soon comes to the same conclusion.:)

why can't he plead poverty or shortage of funds?

He was involved in an accident which he did not cause, yes he is guilty of having no d/lic and no tax (not the biggest crime btw) and bald tyres, I'm sure he is sorry for what happened. You think he should be sacked?

Paparazzo · 19-04-2012 05:54PM

professore wrote: »

Did he not have lights on his car? Surely if it was dark he would have had full beams on.

SunnyDub1 wrote: »

Its a motor way... big enough road and space for a car to be moved.. hardly imagine the 2 of them where taking up the whole road

Seriously, have either of you ever driven on an unlit motorway before? A car could have been coming the other way, so dips were on. Next time you're doing 120kph on a dark road, imagine coming across something like a person on the road. You'd hit it before you have a chance to think "what the fúck is that?"

dillo2k10 · 19-04-2012 05:54PM

If someone was to do that with a provisional licence they would get a €2000 fine for not having a licences driver with them and no L plates. Then they would be fined for No Tax, bald tyres and the car impounded for no NCT. Then extra for driving on a motorway and then extra for killing two people.

Sure you dont expect 2 people to be on the ground of the motorway but you should only drive as fast as you can stop within the distance that you can see clear, even on a motorway.

They should be banned from Driving and/or imprisoned with the fine on top.

hondasam · 19-04-2012 05:56PM

dillo2k10 wrote: »

If someone was to do that with a provisional licence they would get a €2000 fine for not having a licences driver with them and no L plates. Then they would be fined for No Tax, bald tyres and the car impounded for no NCT. Then extra for driving on a motorway and then extra for killing two people.

Sure you dont expect 2 people to be on the ground of the motorway but you should only drive as fast as you can stop within the distance that you can see clear, even on a motorway.

They should be banned from Driving and/or imprisoned with the fine on top.

He had a passenger maybe she had a full d/lic. Do you know the speed limit on a motorway? I would think the car was impounded or TE.

HigginsJ · 19-04-2012 05:58PM

Ellis Dee wrote: »

If a society wants its citizens to respect the law, it must demand exceptionally high standards of those who are paid to exercise public power. :cool:

A police officer who drives without a licence, has not paid his road tax (and is thereby defrauding the taxpayer) and, by having bald tyres, is on the road in a potentially dangerous vehicle, does not meet the standard of probity that it is reasonable to expect of someone in his position, and he is providing others with an excuse to disregard the law. He likewise can not plead poverty or shortage of funds, as might be the case with someone who is unemployed or enjoys less pay and benefits than our boys in blue.:rolleyes:

A person like him has no place in the police force of a democratic country, and I hope the Garda Ombudsman soon comes to the same conclusion.:)

Do you know him personally. I dont.

He may well be an excellent Garda (or a rubbish one)

He was involved in an accident of which he is not at fault and tax/licence would have made no difference to that (neither would tyres tbf)

DarkJager · 19-04-2012 05:59PM

dillo2k10 wrote: »

Sure you dont expect 2 people to be on the ground of the motorway but you should only drive as fast as you can stop within the distance that you can see clear, even on a motorway.

A motorway is 120kph and driving slowly on one can lead to accidents. These 2 gob****es from what I recall had an argument in the car and pulled over, and then got out to have a fight...on the ****ing motorway. Regardless of what condition his car was in, these 2 imbeciles took themselves out of the gene pool with their stupidity.

Regardless of that though, a 900e fine for no licence and no tax is a joke.

MagicSean · 19-04-2012 06:00PM

dillo2k10 wrote: »

If someone was to do that with a provisional licence they would get a €2000 fine for not having a licences driver with them and no L plates. Then they would be fined for No Tax, bald tyres and the car impounded for no NCT. Then extra for driving on a motorway and then extra for killing two people.

Sure you dont expect 2 people to be on the ground of the motorway but you should only drive as fast as you can stop within the distance that you can see clear, even on a motorway.

They should be banned from Driving and/or imprisoned with the fine on top.

i take it you've never been to court. a learner driver would likely get a fine for a first offence with every thing else taken into consideration.

HigginsJ · 19-04-2012 06:00PM

dillo2k10 wrote: »

If someone was to do that with a provisional licence they would get a €2000 fine for not having a licences driver with them and no L plates. Then they would be fined for No Tax, bald tyres and the car impounded for no NCT. Then extra for driving on a motorway and then extra for killing two people.

Sure you dont expect 2 people to be on the ground of the motorway but you should only drive as fast as you can stop within the distance that you can see clear, even on a motorway.

They should be banned from Driving and/or imprisoned with the fine on top.

But he was not a provisional driver and he had another guard in the car.

He has been fined for everything and the Judge took all factors into account when deciding the fine.

He may well have to face further charges depending on the Garda Ombudsman enquiry so he is not finished yet

finty · 19-04-2012 06:04PM

Dont condone the guy who hit them driving without tax, insurance, a licence an bald tires.

but those 2 imbeciles fighting or whatever they were at on a motorway in the middle of the night got themselves killed and probably left the driver scarred for life!

Darwin award nomination for both

humbert · 19-04-2012 06:06PM

Are there consequences associated with a garda breaking the law? It can't say a lot for his attitude toward his profession.

dillo2k10 · 19-04-2012 06:06PM

DarkJager wrote: »

A motorway is 120kph and driving slowly on one can lead to accidents.

In the middle of the night what kind of accident is going to be caused by driving at 90 instead of 120.

120 is also a speed limit, you dont have to go that speed, there is no min speed.

_feedback_ · 19-04-2012 06:07PM

Seriously though, two people on the ground on a motorway in the middle of the night, and some people try to put some blame on the driver...

Really? Think about it, it's pure madness.

MagicSean · 19-04-2012 06:08PM

dillo2k10 wrote: »

In the middle of the night what kind of accident is going to be caused by driving at 90 instead of 120.

120 is also a speed limit, you dont have to go that speed, there is no min speed.

Are you honsetly suggesting that a person travelling at 90 kmph could have stopped in time?

Stark · 19-04-2012 06:09PM

dillo2k10 wrote: »

In the middle of the night what kind of accident is going to be caused by driving at 90 instead of 120.

120 is also a speed limit, you dont have to go that speed, there is no min speed.

Who's to say he would have seen them doing 90km/hr? It's a motorway, not Dublin quays, it's reasonable to expect you should be able to do 120km/hr on one without encountering drunken eejits brawling in the middle of the road.

dillo2k10 · 19-04-2012 06:10PM

MagicSean wrote: »

Are you honsetly suggesting that a person travelling at 90 kmph could have stopped in time?

I dont know.

I dont think that it is the drivers fault that he hit those people, but I do think that in the eyes of the law it would be his fault.

hondasam · 19-04-2012 06:11PM

dillo2k10 wrote: »

I dont know.

I dont think that it is the drivers fault that he hit those people, but I do think that in the eyes of the law it would be his fault.

How is it his fault in the eyes of the law?

HigginsJ · 19-04-2012 06:12PM

humbert wrote: »

Are there consequences associated with a garda breaking the law? It can't say a lot for his attitude toward his profession.

Yes the Garda Ombudsman is currently carrying out an investigation and that is why no further charges have been brought

Kess73 · 19-04-2012 06:14PM

Paparazzo wrote: »

Seriously, have either of you ever driven on an unlit motorway before? A car could have been coming the other way, so dips were on. Next time you're doing 120kph on a dark road, imagine coming across something like a person on the road. You'd hit it before you have a chance to think "what the fúck is that?"

Not only that but the sliproad which joins that stretch of motorway is coming at motorway at an angle and there is the small matter of the view to the left being obstructed as you come down that sliproad.

Two men lying or rolling on the ground would not be picked up by the headlights of any car coming down this sliproad simply because the lights would not be facing in a straight line and along the motor until after the car takes the bend to the left near the end of the slip road. Plus the sliproad itself is a wide bend which starts off heading in a different direction to the motorway and works it's way towards the motorway by way of a long right turn before entering the motorway with the left hand turn at the end.

There is also a high slope of rock/trees (the sliproad was cut into the land/slope) etc that completly block off a left sided view whilst on that sliproad.

Another thing is that the view to your right as you use the sliproad is not the greatest either, so anyone using the sliproad has to be careful of traffic coming from the right side as the flyover blocks that view somewhat plus the angle at the point where the sliproad starts to run alongside the motorway means that you have to watch the right hand side as you drive down as your car is at an angle to traffic coming from the right instead of running parallel with the motorway straight away.

I think that many people might be thinking of the nice straight sliproads on parts of the M50 when thinking about why the headlights did not light up the two men well in advance. Anything of car height to your left as you prepare to enter that stretch of motorway would not be easy to see, so two men rolling or lying on the ground at a height of maybe 24 inches of so would be next to impossible to see at that point until you were literally on them.

dillo2k10 · 19-04-2012 06:15PM

hondasam wrote: »

How is it his fault in the eyes of the law?

You must only drive at a speed that you can stop within the distance that you can see to be clear. That could have been a broken down car, a car crash or something that fell of a car etc on the motorway.

HigginsJ · 19-04-2012 06:15PM

Stark wrote: »

Who's to say he would have seen them doing 90km/hr? It's a motorway, not Dublin quays, it's reasonable to expect you should be able to do 120km/hr on one without encountering drunken eejits brawling in the middle of the road.

Its a perfect road. 120kmphs is comfortable speed. Even the big articulated lorries do the 120 on the road.

He was not speeding so anyone saying he should have been driving slower is being a tad risiculous

flynnlives · 19-04-2012 06:15PM

hold on a sec!

is it that he never had a driving license or was he driving his car without having his license on him?

If he had insurance then he has a driving license.

It is an offense to drive a car without having your license on your person.
I suspect this is the charge he was done for.

hondasam · 19-04-2012 06:19PM

dillo2k10 wrote: »

You must only drive at a speed that you can stop within the distance that you can see to be clear. That could have been a broken down car, a car crash or something that fell of a car etc on the motorway.

Do you drive?

@flynnlives, you have ten days to produce you d/lic.

Dead Man Walking · 19-04-2012 06:23PM

HigginsJ wrote: »

Its a perfect road. 120kmphs is comfortable speed. Even the big articulated lorries do the 120 on the road.

He was not speeding so anyone saying he should have been driving slower is being a tad risiculous

80km/h is the speed limit for trucks

actua11 · 19-04-2012 06:25PM

In normal circumstances a driver hitting those two men would be absolved of much of the blame as it would be considered nothing more than an unavoidable accident. However this case is different as a)The car was not road worthy with it's bald tires and should not have been on that road, b)The driver had no license or tax and as such such not have been on that road. The two men was always going to be hit by a car on that road, it just so happens that the car that did should never have been there to do it.

I think people at large could be frustrated by the hypocrisy shown by the Garda in question as the public are (rightly) punished with the tax/tires/license problems as described in this case but yet they read about a Garda trying to get away with it. It is such a miniscule minority of the Garda force that do something like this but it can create a stereotype of the corrupting nature of authority that reflects on the force on the whole. It's similar to how a bad customer experience in one store in a chain may lead to having a negative opinion about the chain as a whole.

The public expect to see the Gardaí leading by example, so it's understandable that when this is not the case, they cry hypocrisy and to an extent develop a negative stigma towards the Gardaí as a whole, unfortunately.

_feedback_ · 19-04-2012 06:25PM

dillo2k10 wrote: »

You must only drive at a speed that you can stop within the distance that you can see to be clear. That could have been a broken down car, a car crash or something that fell of a car etc on the motorway.

The speed limit is posted on the road. That isn't the problem. It is every drivers responsibility to be alert and to expect the unexpected. There is nothing to say that he wasn't. The two people should not have been there.

Would you blame a train driver if they hit someone on their track?

flynnlives wrote: »

hold on a sec!

is it that he never had a driving license or was he driving his car without having his license on him?

If he had insurance then he has a driving license.

It is an offense to drive a car without having your license on your person.
I suspect this is the charge he was done for.

Yeah the wording isn't very clear in the article, but sure you can only assume that he didn't have a valid licence. Otherwise he could produce it afterwards..

HigginsJ · 19-04-2012 06:31PM

Dead Man Walking wrote: »

80km/h is the speed limit for trucks

I did not know that. They do an awful lot more than that

Garda with no licience,tax, and bald tyres kills two and gets a fine!

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