Carragher, Neville & MNF On Sky

Sanity_Saviour · 17-04-2012 01:32AM

kryogen wrote: »

I'm not, I'm one of the voices in your head.

What a super point. :rolleyes:

PhlegmyMoses · 17-04-2012 01:33AM

If he touched you, Sanity Saviour, you know you can tell us, right? A problem shared is a problem halved.

kryogen · 17-04-2012 01:35AM

cambo2008 wrote: »

I think somebody has a little crush on you Kryogen ^^^^^^^^

She actually does! I have checked her last few posts and they are all following me around threads like a puppy quoting me and responding with strange comments!

I feel all fuzzy inside! havent had a boards stalker in a while

kryogen · 17-04-2012 01:39AM

Dude! you spelt my name wrong!!

I wish I knew what I had done to deserve this ones attention, gotta be careful what you say to the younger ones, they are easily fooled into thinking its a long term thing

Red Crow · 17-04-2012 01:45AM

kryogen wrote: »

Dude! you spelt my name wrong!!

I wish I knew what I had done to deserve this ones attention, gotta be careful what you say to the younger ones, they are easily fooled into thinking its a long term thing

So did you!

kryogen · 17-04-2012 01:51AM

Ah where's the Gene Wilder pic gone

Love Gene Wilder!

J. Marston · 17-04-2012 01:53AM

Neville actually gives the impression that he researches the stuff he's talking about while the likes of Hansen and Shearer give the impression that they show up 30 minutes before the start of Match Of The Day and ask ''Who played today?'' and then throw out a couple of clichés.

Jamie Redknapp gives the impression that he eats glue before a Sky producer sits him in his chair.

Jesus Wept · 17-04-2012 02:10AM

It was an interesting piece from that Neville but still the xenophobia to suggest that diving was invented by foreigners 20 years ago.

hangballlouie wrote: »

In the studio, he is the best there is in England. Co-commentating he is ok, but when he is analysing in the studio he is quality.

I'm a Liverpool fan and was a bit worried when he got the gig full-time but he hasn't been biased at all in the EPL IMO.

He has a fantastic knowledge of the game. Has won it all, and played for and against great teams.

Sky should have just him and Souness doing the analysing from now on, get rid of the other clowns.

Btw, I got some stick from my LFC mates for buying it, but his book is a very good read. Recommended reading for all football fans.

Souness comes out with awful nonsense a lot of the time.

kryogen · 17-04-2012 02:17AM

He is sort of right, in a way though isnt he? Before the European and players from elsewhere came into the English leagues there wasnt a big diving culture was there?

I remember laughing when it was the big story that Klinsmann brought diving to England

I could be wrong of course, but I did think diving was mainly only a problem since the Premiership/Premier League, era?

Jesus Wept · 17-04-2012 02:32AM

I couldn't say but then I seriously doubt it could ever be proven so it seems unfair to keep implying it.

I don't buy that English players are just more honest than the foreigners. Or that they used to be. It's not like English players aren't diving now and regardless, does it matter if one group started it at this point, no.

Klinsmann was just theatrical in the extreme with it, so that probably fuels it a fair bit.

Also it was always going to get less attention before Sky invented football in the 90's and frame by frame replays.

My suspicion is that there is most likely a considerable correlation between the growing perception of the problem and the ever growing coverage of premier league matches, increased: punditry, facebook/twitterering, message boards posting, online and print media column inches.

PhlegmyMoses · 17-04-2012 02:38AM

Latin countries are far more accepting of diving. It's a cultural thing. They seem to be more concerned about bad tackles than we are.

That's not a criticism, either. It's just a different sporting culture.

Giggsy11 · 17-04-2012 07:02AM

cson wrote: »

I agree but is it rendering defending redundant if you simply can't touch someone in the penalty area? It is supposed to be a contact sport after all. Tell me what Shaun Derry did shouldn't happen because of players going down?

I think Neville is bang on in his analysis too. Would have loved to see him include 2 things; [1] A vid of Sky's darling boy Bale in action and [2] A clip of the Wolves - Arsenal match where Ramsey was fouled in the box (in terms of what goes for a foul nowadays) but got up, played on and took a shot - no penalty.

He did that, not that incident but showed incident from Spurs Vs Norwich game where Gallas clearly fouled but Norwich player was very honest enough to not go to the ground and in the end didn't get penalty. Instead for Corner kick.

Its a tricky situation, if a player is fouled and stays on feet they rarely gets decision and with so much money at stake I can't see them being popular with manager and teammates. I have seen Anelka not going down when fouled and not getting penalty decisions.

Rekop dog · 17-04-2012 07:19AM

kryogen wrote: »

He is sort of right, in a way though isnt he? Before the European and players from elsewhere came into the English leagues there wasnt a big diving culture was there?

I remember laughing when it was the big story that Klinsmann brought diving to England

I could be wrong of course, but I did think diving was mainly only a problem since the Premiership/Premier League, era?

He's not right! The growth in diving has coincided with the growth of the Premier league, where there's so much on the line financially every game and the decision to dive/not dive can be the difference between winning a title, getting in Europe or being relagated and the massive financial implications that come with this like a club potentially getting into massive debt problems when going down as we've seen with plenty during the prem era.

People blame 'the foreigners' as the massive influx naturally came with the growth of the Premiership, and then draw lazy conclusions like "we never had diving on this scale before they entered the league".

Will I Amnt · 17-04-2012 08:48AM

Rekop dog wrote: »

People blame 'the foreigners' as the massive influx naturally came with the growth of the Premiership, and then draw lazy conclusions like "we never had diving on this scale before they entered the league".

It's not as clear as that.I think he's right in saying it arrived with the foreign players.
It was going on in their leagues before they came to the EPL,it's not just coincidence for me.

Neville did another written piece on diving last week that was a very interesting read.

Edit: here it is http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2126567/Gary-Neville-Andy-Carrolls-dive-laugh--zero-tolerance-wont-ground.html

kryogen · 17-04-2012 08:49AM

Rekop dog wrote: »

He's not right! The growth in diving has coincided with the growth of the Premier league, where there's so much on the line financially every game and the decision to dive/not dive can be the difference between winning a title, getting in Europe or being relagated and the massive financial implications that come with this like a club potentially getting into massive debt problems when going down as we've seen with plenty during the prem era.

People blame 'the foreigners' as the massive influx naturally came with the growth of the Premiership, and then draw lazy conclusions like "we never had diving on this scale before they entered the league".

Thats kinda what I was saying dude! I remember laughing when Klinsmann "brought" diving to England! That diving has been growing mainly since the beginning of the Premiership, and the influx of foreign players on a greater scale began then too. They both happened around the same time, it does also have to be pointed out that diving is not seen as cheating in Latin countries especially and this cultural difference has left its mark on the English game also.

I dont blame the foreigners for the theatrics soley, I would put their influence down as part of the cause alright, and tbh a substantial part, but to ignore the financial factors and everything else and simply blame the foreigners would be wrong.

markie29 · 17-04-2012 08:53AM

cambo2008 wrote: »

It's not as clear as that.I think he's right in saying it arrived with the foreign players.
It was going on in their leagues before they came to the EPL,it's not just coincidence for me.

Neville did another written piece on diving last week that was a very interesting read.

Diving was happening in england long before premier league started.....i remember seeing videos of games from the 1970s and Francis Lee was diving looking for penalties in every game.As for Gary Neville is more suited to being a studio analyst than a co commentator.

Rekop dog · 17-04-2012 08:57AM

cambo2008 wrote: »

Rekop dog wrote: »

People blame 'the foreigners' as the massive influx naturally came with the growth of the Premiership, and then draw lazy conclusions like "we never had diving on this scale before they entered the league".

It's not as clear as that.I think he's right in saying it arrived with the foreign players.
It was going on in their leagues before they came to the EPL,it's not just coincidence for me.

Neville did another written piece on diving last week that was a very interesting read.

Edit: here it is http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2126567/Gary-Neville-Andy-Carrolls-dive-laugh--zero-tolerance-wont-ground.html

It wasn't that comman in other leagues back then either, it's just there's lots of other leagues and just one English league so it's obviously going to be easier to find instances of diving from a gigantic sample compared to a smallish one.

Will I Amnt · 17-04-2012 09:05AM

Rekop dog wrote: »

It wasn't that comman in other leagues back then either, it's just there's lots of other leagues and just one English league so it's obviously going to be easier to find instances of diving from a gigantic sample compared to a smallish one.

Well according to that article it was ingrained into the kids he used to face when he was in his early teens.It's been around a lot longer on the continent,I think most would agree on that.

Will I Amnt · 17-04-2012 09:07AM

markie29 wrote: »

Diving was happening in england long before premier league started.....i remember seeing videos of games from the 1970s and Francis Lee was diving looking for penalties in every game.As for Gary Neville is more suited to being a studio analyst than a co commentator.

Maybe a few isolated incidents but not the culture of it that was going on elsewhere.

carlop · 17-04-2012 09:33AM

kryogen wrote: »

Thats kinda what I was saying dude! I remember laughing when Klinsmann "brought" diving to England! That diving has been growing mainly since the beginning of the Premiership, and the influx of foreign players on a greater scale began then too. They both happened around the same time, it does also have to be pointed out that diving is not seen as cheating in Latin countries especially and this cultural difference has left its mark on the English game also.

I dont blame the foreigners for the theatrics soley, I would put their influence down as part of the cause alright, and tbh a substantial part, but to ignore the financial factors and everything else and simply blame the foreigners would be wrong.

What are you counting as the Latin countries? I don't know too much about South America, but if you're including Italy you have to take into account that it is one of the few places where retrospective bans for diving have been given. Off the top of my head I think Quagliarella got one a couple of years back.

In Spain it may not be regarded quite as negatively as in the UK or Ireland, but it isn't far off. Go to Madrid and mention the word Dani Alves and the word 'tramposo' (cheat) will only be preceded by 'Hijo de la gran puta,' likewise Di Maria in Barcelona, or Diego Capel anywhere.

Neil3030 · 17-04-2012 10:51AM

More money -> increased significance of victory -> successful diving increases chance of victory -> winning more important than dignity -> diving.

Edit: apologies just realised this is a thread about G-Nev, not diving.

kryogen · 17-04-2012 11:04AM

carlop wrote: »

What are you counting as the Latin countries? I don't know too much about South America, but if you're including Italy you have to take into account that it is one of the few places where retrospective bans for diving have been given. Off the top of my head I think Quagliarella got one a couple of years back.

In Spain it may not be regarded quite as negatively as in the UK or Ireland, but it isn't far off. Go to Madrid and mention the word Dani Alves and the word 'tramposo' (cheat) will only be preceded by 'Hijo de la gran puta,' likewise Di Maria in Barcelona, or Diego Capel anywhere.

Are you actualy going to tell me that Madrid and Barca are against diving/cheating vehemently?

17-04-2012 11:14AM

As much as i don't like Neville, he does give a very valid & factual opinion at times.
He's growing on me.

Cantona's Collars · 17-04-2012 11:17AM

I hope he's in the studio with Bitter Summerbee for the Manchester Derby,there'll be fireworks with Summerbee's entrenched,narrow minded views and Nevilles straight talking.

kryogen · 17-04-2012 11:19AM

If thats true it will be a serious test of Nevilles ability not to punch an old man in the face anyway

Neil3030 · 17-04-2012 11:25AM

kryogen wrote: »

If thats true it will be a serious test of Nevilles ability not to punch an old man in the face anyway

Pre-season friendly for working with Dunphy.

carlop · 17-04-2012 11:28AM

kryogen wrote: »

Are you actualy going to tell me that Madrid and Barca are against diving/cheating vehemently?

No, I'm saying if you ask a supporter of either team they will say that Alves, Di Maria and a couple of others are cheats because they dive.

I don't think any club is against diving when it works in their favour.

kryogen · 17-04-2012 11:29AM

Neil3030 wrote: »

Pre-season friendly for working with Dunphy.

??

I assume this is a joke but I would absolutely love to see Nevilles head explode sitting in between Eamo and Gilesy!

He definitely wouldnt make it through that without killing someone

Warper · 17-04-2012 02:11PM

Gary Neville has proved to be a good analyst who knows what hes talking about. Like every analyst they make mistakes, such as him blaming the "foreigners" for all the diving and the refusal to call players who dive, cheats. Diving is a massive part of the game now but its still cheating no matter where its at. Interesting to see how some people who rant and rave about the likes of Barca or Real cheating and yet suddenly cant say it when there own team has a habit of it. I await the posts this Sat night when El Clasico is on for the usual badness.

17-04-2012 02:13PM

Last night, Rosicky cheated, and i'm an Arsenal fan.
I think Nial Quinn had a good piont, a few restrospective red cards will definately help.

Carragher, Neville & MNF On Sky

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