Should horse racing be banned?

UrbanSea · 15-04-2012 03:46PM

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

Again, the jockey CHOOSES to be involved in the sport.

This is another ignorant argument.

If a horse does not want to run, it will not run. Look at King John's Castle in the National. Sariska used to stand in the stalls. Look up a filly named Memory. The list is endless.

Seomra Mushie · 15-04-2012 03:47PM

UrbanSea wrote: »

This is another ignorant argument.

If a horse does not want to run, it will not run. Look at King John's Castle in the National. Sariska used to stand in the stalls. Look up a filly named Memory. The list is endless.

You'd want to stop calling people who disagree with you ignorant. :rolleyes:

UrbanSea · 15-04-2012 03:48PM

DB10 wrote: »

As long as they get their pay cheque I'm sure they'll be grand.

Sure didn't one of the stable jockeys earn 2 million pounds last week on a bet. I'd say he cares right now alright.

It's a disgrace the money involved and nobody cares about the horses.

You have not got a clue. That's the same stable lad who went to work the morning after to look after the horse he minds.

To assume that all stable workers only care about their cheque is one of the most idiotic things I've possibly ever read. The horses are like family to them.

Go to any stable actually and just get a tour around. You'll see how much they care.

Judging by your posts I'm guessing you've never stepped foot into a yard.

UrbanSea · 15-04-2012 03:48PM

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

You'd want to stop calling people who disagree with you ignorant. :rolleyes:

Your comment was ignorant. Do you dispute that?

DB10 · 15-04-2012 03:49PM

UrbanSea wrote: »

This is another ignorant argument.

If a horse does not want to run, it will not run. Look at King John's Castle in the National. Sariska used to stand in the stalls. Look up a filly named Memory. The list is endless.

Synchronise didnt want to run yesterday. It was clear from the start, he delayed the race by 10 minutes because he didn't want to run.

Yet he was forced to because so many people had money bet on him. And now hes dead. There needs to be a thorough investigation into these circumstances.

He was never upto this race so soon after the Gold Cup.

The Snipe · 15-04-2012 03:49PM

http://slanchreport.com/2009/10/26/lightning-strikes-cause-disaster-on-african-soccer-fields/

Lets ban soccer!

My name is URL · 15-04-2012 03:50PM

kfallon wrote: »

OP watches Grand National, 2 horses die, he is 'outraged'.

A horse may die at Ayr next Friday, OP won't care, doubt he'll even know about it :rolleyes:

What makes you think I won't care? Maybe I won't know about it, but I know about what happened yesterday, and I decided to start a thread about it. Get the fcuk over it, and yourself.

UrbanSea · 15-04-2012 03:51PM

DB10 wrote: »

Synchronise didnt want to run yesterday. It was clear from the start, he dalyed the race by 10 minutes because he didn't want to run.

Yet he was forced to because so many people had money bet on him. And now hes dead. There needs to be a thorough investigation into these circumstances.

He was never upto this race so soon after the Gold Cup.

Horses can often get excited before a race. This doesn't mean they don't want to run. If he didn't want to run, he would have either stood at the start or refused at some of the fences.

Synchronized ran and jumped fences even after McCoy had come off him. Doesn't strike me as a horse who doesn't want to go.

The day before a horse called Finian's Rainbow did something similar, in fact he crashed through one of the rails. He went on to win the race. There is a difference between a horse being excited prior to a race and a horse not wanting to race.

Duggys Housemate · 15-04-2012 03:52PM

This is really a debate with urban animal lovers. A love which basically means knowing only about dogs and cats, and the reality of the countryside, of foxes and horses, are lost to them.

I am not a horse person. But I do know horsy people and to a woman(generally it is women) they ride horses. They don't always hunt but they often as not jump. Some night think the grand national too severe but horse lovers follow racing. And these people live and breathe horses.

Horses used to be urban creatures as much as rural. They followed humans to cities, but have been replaced by cars. Their wild environment is the Asian steppe. The only reason why they exist anymore in Western Europe is racing, a hangover from their days as useful creatures. They can't run free, we have no space. Ban racing and you will largely exterminate horses, certainly the line of pedigree horses. The alternative is largely extinction.

kfallon · 15-04-2012 03:52PM

DB10 wrote: »

I find it hard to see how anyone can support this animal cruelty sport, they certainly only care about their bets or their job if they are involved with horses.

Would you rather these horses were never born and loved? They are bred to race, if racing didn't exist we would never know about them. Take George Washington, gave me one of my biggest thrills in racing when standing in Newmarket watching him win the 2,000 Guineas and I didn't win any money. Unfortunately he died on the track 18 months later. However he gave me a memory I will cherish forever, the pain of his ending couldn't overshadow the joy he gave me in May 2006.

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

What do you base that on?

21,114 posts since 2008 and not one in the horse racing forum, says it all :rolleyes:

Micky Dolenz · 15-04-2012 03:52PM

DB10 wrote: »

As long as they get their pay cheque I'm sure they'll be grand.

Sure didn't one of the stable jockeys earn 2 million pounds last week on a bet. I'd say he cares right now alright.

It's a disgrace the money involved and nobody cares about the horses.

That's not true. The money made by the bulk if people working in the industry is poor and the hours are long with the work being very hard.

Most people will have got into it through their love of horses.

DB10 · 15-04-2012 03:52PM

UrbanSea wrote: »

Judging by your posts I'm guessing you've never stepped foot into a yard.

No, and I don't intend to. Seeing animals forced to run and be whipped for peoples entertainment. It's like the Colloseum in Rome ffs.

I have't been to dog fighting yards either and I have no wish to.

Seomra Mushie · 15-04-2012 03:53PM

UrbanSea wrote: »

Horses can often get excited before a race. This doesn't mean they don't want to run.

Do you speak horse?

UrbanSea · 15-04-2012 03:53PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

That's not true. The money made by the bulk if people working in the industry is poor and the hours are long with the work being very hard.

Most people will have got into it through their love of horses.

Totally true. Most of the stable workers are paid pittance and work about 18 hour days. This isn't a job for them,it's a way of life. They genuinely love them.

UrbanSea · 15-04-2012 03:54PM

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

Do you speak horse?

Have you a dog/cat?

Is it possible to understand their emotions without speaking dog/cat?

Idiotic question.

kfallon · 15-04-2012 03:56PM

DB10 wrote: »

Synchronise didnt want to run yesterday. It was clear from the start, he delayed the race by 10 minutes because he didn't want to run.

Yet he was forced to because so many people had money bet on him. And now hes dead. There needs to be a thorough investigation into these circumstances.

He was never upto this race so soon after the Gold Cup.

Synchronised ran on after he unshipped Tony McCoy

My name is URL wrote: »

What makes you think I won't care? Maybe I won't know about it, but I know about what happened yesterday, and I decided to start a thread about it. Get the fcuk over it, and yourself.

You won't know about it because you won't care

xzanti · 15-04-2012 03:56PM

kfallon wrote: »

Why do you think that everyone who likes horse racing is only in it for the money?

kfallon wrote: »

But is what ever they're 'getting' from it, be it financial gain or simply the thrill of the race, worth sacrificing the animals life?

kfallon wrote: »

But I agree with the first part of your post, these horses mean so much to so many people, they are not 'just' horses. As I said before there is a lad or lass who looked after Synchronised every day of his life who is heartbroken today, JP McManus and Jonjo will be feeling the same. I don't see people calling for F1 to be banned even tho we have lost people due to crashes in that sport.

Again, it goes back to the argument that humans go into their sport of their own free will, equipped with the knowledge of all the dangers involved..

There's no dotted line for animals to sign, and no big payout to rest up on if they get injured... it's curtains for them.

Seomra Mushie · 15-04-2012 03:57PM

UrbanSea wrote: »

Have you a dog/cat?

Is it possible to understand their emotions without speaking dog/cat?

Idiotic question.

Again with the insults. The horse delayed the race. I'd take that as reticence. You don't seem to so I was wondering what other means are used to find out if the horse wants to race, if the obvious one is ignored.

kfallon · 15-04-2012 03:59PM

DB10 wrote: »

No, and I don't intend to. Seeing animals forced to run and be whipped for peoples entertainment. It's like the Colloseum in Rome ffs.

I have't been to dog fighting yards either and I have no wish to.

Have you ever been whipped by a jockey's whip?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/oct/18/jockeys-whip-didnt-hurt

UrbanSea · 15-04-2012 04:00PM

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

Again with the insults. The horse delayed the race. I'd take that as reticence. You don't seem to so I was wondering what other means are used to find out if the horse wants to race, if the obvious one is ignored.

When did I insult you? Now you're simply making things up to suit your argument.

The horse delayed the race. This is not uncommon at all. Again, look at Finian's Rainbow the day before.

That may be an obvious sign to someone who hasn't a clue about horses or racing. The most obvious sign is that a horse refuses to line up with the others or is left at the start by refusing (See King John's Castle),a horse who refuses at a fence (Vic Venturi yesterday), a horse who will not go into the stalls on the flat, or a horse who stands in the stalls.

I'm repeating myself, which is rather irritating.

Flancrest · 15-04-2012 04:01PM

The fact of the matter is horses are surplus to requirements without horse racing and therefore a ban on horse racing would cause many more horse deaths than keeping it going.

99% of people involved in hose racing are horse lovers and would never force a horse to do anything they didn't think they'd be able for. If you ever hear a trainer owner or jockey speak its always about the horse not the money.

There is also a piece i read by Mick Fitzgerald today that questions if the changes made to beachers brook for safety reasons were actually the cause of the 2 horses dying yesterday

Seomra Mushie · 15-04-2012 04:01PM

UrbanSea wrote: »

I'm repeating myself, which is rather irritating.

Know the feeling.

kfallon · 15-04-2012 04:04PM

xzanti wrote: »

Again, it goes back to the argument that humans go into their sport of their own free will, equipped with the knowledge of all the dangers involved..

There's no dotted line for animals to sign, and no big payout to rest up on if they get injured... it's curtains for them.

Why do you think every horse dies on the track?

A lot of horses enjoy a fantastic retirement after their racing days are over, some even have the luxury of being a stallion after racing, how better a retirement can you get? :P

As I said before, if racing didn't exist these horses would never be born, they are bred for the specific reason of racing, nothing else.

UrbanSea · 15-04-2012 04:04PM

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

Know the feeling.

I've had better debates with a horse.

later12 · 15-04-2012 04:08PM

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

Again with the insults. The horse delayed the race. I'd take that as reticence. You don't seem to so I was wondering what other means are used to find out if the horse wants to race, if the obvious one is ignored.

I can understand the irritation.

You and others are making some absolutely bizarre claims like participants in racing being only in it for the money, or horses' reticences on the racetrack.

I have nothing against people who have no interest in horseracing or other equestrian sports outside of grumbling about the grand national.But please don't start telling people who are familiar with working with horses 'what's what' when claims you are making are so visibly and exasperatingly off the mark, and you would realise that if you spent any length of time in a training yard at all.

I do appreciate that the national is a cause for concern, and there is such a thing as 'overfacing' horses. There is room there for intelligent debate. But not this guff you're coming out with.

Micky Dolenz · 15-04-2012 04:08PM

kfallon wrote: »

21,114 posts since 2008 and not one in the horse racing forum, says it all :rolleyes:

Heh, good deduction Watson.

Even when I was a stable hand I had little interest in the sport, unless it was one of our own horses running or one I had worked with. I never gambled.which is funny as ive probably been to every race course in the country as a stable hand I did it as I grew up around them so had little choice really. I love horses and
Love to ride And their is nothing better then riding a thoroughbred.

I never intended to make a career of it and once I left home that was it.

Harry Angstrom · 15-04-2012 04:09PM

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

Again with the insults. The horse delayed the race. I'd take that as reticence. You don't seem to so I was wondering what other means are used to find out if the horse wants to race, if the obvious one is ignored.

The horse delayed the race because he got loose. If he didn't want to race, he would have planted himself at the start. As was mentioned earlier, take a look at a horse called King Johns Castle when he did just that in a previous Grand National. Also, take a look at a horse called Vodkatini. If he wasn't in the mood he would simply plant himself and no amount of encouragement would get him to move. The same went for a horse called Twist Magic. He did exactly the same thing when he didn't want to race.

This thread really is a waste of time because it's impossible to have a reasoned debate with people who haven't a clue of the subject. Good luck.

Seomra Mushie · 15-04-2012 04:10PM

kfallon wrote: »

As I said before, if racing didn't exist these horses would never be born

Weird argument.

xzanti · 15-04-2012 04:11PM

Why do you think every horse dies on the track?

Where did I say that?

kfallon wrote: »

As I said before, if racing didn't exist these horses would never be born, they are bred for the specific reason of racing, nothing else.

Kind of like battery hens I guess.

Mint Sauce · 15-04-2012 04:12PM

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

Again with the insults. The horse delayed the race. I'd take that as reticence. You don't seem to so I was wondering what other means are used to find out if the horse wants to race, if the obvious one is ignored.

The race was delayed because the horse instinctingly went to jump when he seen the start tape during the warm up, thus unseating his rider. When he was eventully caught up with, he was examined by a vet and deemed okay to race.

As already said, if he didn't want to race he would have stood his ground at the start, or refused the fences.

Now this is no defence of the race its self, I have already said earlier I wouldn't miss the National if it was never ran again, it was saddening that two horses died, but it doesn't mean that all horse racing should be banned.

There is racing nearly everyday of the year, if horses dying were a regular event, I would say 'yeah sure, ban it', but theres not. I do think though a review is needed though in regards to the national.

Should horse racing be banned?

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