Should horse racing be banned?

calfmuscle · 15-04-2012 01:38PM

Discodog wrote: »

If the death of a horse is going to make you break down in floods of tears then why subject to so much risk ? One of my dogs would love to chase across a particular field. I stop him because he might hit the barbed wire fence. We have a duty to keep our animals reasonably safe.

I thought that the comments of the RSPCA man, who specialises in Horse Racing were spot on. He admitted that all racing carries an element of risk but the risks in the National are too high.

Risk can be reduced. Formula one went through a period where a lot of drivers died whereas now it is an extreme rarity. The sport still attracts huge crowds & TV coverage - reducing the risk can enhance the sport.

I have seen horses jump out of fields and break legs, much to the upset of the owners, stable staff and vets. They where not put at risk they jumped because that's what they do.

cson · 15-04-2012 01:39PM

Probably been mentioned but the National is run over fences not hurdles.

To be honest, the cruelty crusaders in the thread are taking the wrong line at this; horses good enough to make the National field are generally amongst the best horses in the yard and therefore will be cared for extremely well. If you want to direct your ire at something worthwhile then maybe look at the fate of horses who consistently finish down the field in grade 5 or 6 handicap hurdles around the country.

Anyway, anyone involved in racing knows the dangers. I'd love to see one of the preachy types on here tell Jonjo O'Neill how to care for his horses better.

Seomra Mushie · 15-04-2012 01:43PM

cson wrote: »

Anyway, anyone involved in racing knows the dangers.

Including the horses? Who briefs them?

grindle · 15-04-2012 01:43PM

Can't believe this thread is still open. Trying to justify the banning of a sport due to a competitor or two dying... Sickening.

Da Shins Kelly · 15-04-2012 01:44PM

I think this thread is going round in circles at this stage..

Seomra Mushie · 15-04-2012 01:48PM

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I think this thread is going round in circles at this stage..

I think it's kinda like foxhunting, it's something there'll never be agreement on. A very polarising topic.

cson · 15-04-2012 01:48PM

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

Including the horses? Who briefs them?

Notwithstanding horses are quite intelligent creatures; I'm not debating whether an animal has cognitive reasoning skills or not with you.

Little bit of perspective darling; the incumbent Syrian Government has slaughtered around 9,000 people (actual human beings) and you're getting your knickers in a twist over 2 horses?

awec · 15-04-2012 01:49PM

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

I think it's kinda like foxhunting, it's something there'll never be agreement on. A very polarising topic.

No it isn't. It's nothing like fox hunting.

Micky Dolenz · 15-04-2012 01:51PM

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I think this thread is going round in circles at this stage..

Like a track?

Seomra Mushie · 15-04-2012 01:51PM

cson wrote: »

Little bit of perspective darling; the incumbent Syrian Government has slaughtered around 9,000 people (actual human beings) and you're getting your knickers in a twist over 2 horses?

Employing patronising terms-of-endearment, a sign of a nerve hit if ever there was one.

kfallon · 15-04-2012 01:52PM

Horses die galloping at home. Rewilding died in a 6 runner flat race last July. I just knew logging on here today there would be a thread about the GN, will the OP start a thread every time a horse dies when racing or is he just being fashionable cos he watched a race yesterday and it'll be the only race he watches all year?

Would you rather racing be banned and never have these horses to love cos without racing these horses would never be born. Better to have loved and lost....

And RIP Synchronised, you did me a couple of good favours

Gone but never forgotten

Seomra Mushie · 15-04-2012 01:52PM

awec wrote: »

No it isn't. It's nothing like fox hunting.

No, you misunderstand, I just mean in terms of people not agreeing on the topic. I'm not saying the actual sport is like foxhunting. JAYsus.

Discodog · 15-04-2012 01:53PM

calfmuscle wrote: »

I have seen horses jump out of fields and break legs, much to the upset of the owners, stable staff and vets. They where not put at risk they jumped because that's what they do.

I agree but, even in the stables & yards you minimise the risk of injury. For example you would remove anything sharp from inside the stables.

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

ill give you 100/1 that it is banned within 10 years

There is no possibility of horse racing being banned in Ireland - not in 100 years. Greyhound racing won't be banned but it may slowly die out. We are about 30 years behind the UK & much of Europe regarding animal welfare.

kfallon · 15-04-2012 01:53PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Like a track?

Not all tracks are circular, if you knew one iota about racing you'd know this :rolleyes:

Discodog · 15-04-2012 01:57PM

One similarity between the racing & hunting arguments is that people suggest that only "experts" are entitled to an opinion. The Hunting crowd say that "townies" should mind their own business & the racing fraternity say that you shouldn't have an opinion unless you attend lots of races.

The welfare of animals is a national concern & everyone is entitled to a say.

Mickeroo · 15-04-2012 01:58PM

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

This is the second comment like this of yours that I don't really get. In an earlier one, you said that it was less cruel as these horses were bred to race, and the bulls were bred for bull fighting. I not really following how that makes it less cruel, especially the bull fighting. The bull doesn't know he's being bred for that purpose and even if he did, he's not going to feel pain any less.

My own moral viewpoint is that horse racing should be made safer and bull fighting should be banned as its extremely cruel towards the animal.

In that previous post I was merely pointing out the complexitiy of the issue as neither race horses nor fighting bulls would even exist if it was not for their respective sports, they were bred for a specific purpose, without that purpose they lose their function/usefulness. Is it really cruel to use an animal for the purpose it was made? Its not something I claim to have a definitive answer on tbh.

The same argument can be made for dairy cows, animals bred for their meat etc.

Micky Dolenz · 15-04-2012 02:02PM

kfallon wrote: »

Not all tracks are circular, if you knew one iota about racing you'd know this :rolleyes:

But some are by your reasoning.

So what's your point?

Seomra Mushie · 15-04-2012 02:03PM

Mickeroo wrote: »

My own moral viewpoint is that horse racing should be made safer and bull fighting should be banned as its extremely cruel towards the animal.

In that previous post I was merely pointing out the complexitiy of the issue as neither race horses nor fighting bulls would even exist if it was not for their respective sports, they were bred for a specific purpose, without that purpose they lose their function/usefulness. Is it really cruel to use an animal for the purpose it was made? Its not something I claim to have a definitive answer on tbh.

The same argument can be made for dairy cows, animals bred for their meat etc.

It's doesn't really matter why they came into existence, for the bull the experience would still be the same. In cases like this, you have to decide if the endpoint is worth the animal's life. Providing nutrition is a good enough reason, IMO, especially as in many countries, suffering is reduced to a minimum. Ditto, animal testing for medical products, as long as suffering is reduced to a minimum. Raising an animal to kill it slowly and painfully for the amusement of humans? No, just no. I'd feel the same to a lesser extent about horse-racing. It's an interesting philosophical topic.

El Horseboxo · 15-04-2012 02:23PM

I don't watch horse racing but i hear of the stories of horses that broke legs having to be put down. Just wondering are there many horses put down due to injuries in flat racing compared to the hurdles? Is it a rare thing in the flats?

kfallon · 15-04-2012 02:26PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

But some are by your reasoning.

So what's your point?

My point is you're talking thru your hole, as usual!

later12 · 15-04-2012 02:29PM

Discodog wrote: »

One similarity between the racing & hunting arguments is that people suggest that only "experts" are entitled to an opinion. The Hunting crowd say that "townies" should mind their own business & the racing fraternity say that you shouldn't have an opinion unless you attend lots of races.

The welfare of animals is a national concern & everyone is entitled to a say.

...For one weekend in April, it seems.

I don't think it's fair to 'exclude' people who are not acquainted with equestrian sports, I think that's a bit inflammatory and unhelpful.

However, there is a credibility issue in question when people attach human emotions to horses and respond with outrage at the notion that a horse might enjoy hunting.
Sorry but if you've never sat on top of an animal with his ears pricked and his head up following a herd of horses over natural countryside, or bolting past you to get out of a trailer on the way to a meet, then you're not really in a position to respond with outrage at the idea that they don't often enjoy this stuff.

I think it's a pity that people of no familiarity with horses would reject an awareness of horses' temperaments by their riders, grooms or trainers.

I think that's as lacking in credibility as someone who has no familiarity with dogs denying that their owners can tell if they're nervous, excited or relaxed

kfallon · 15-04-2012 02:31PM

El Horseboxo wrote: »

I don't watch horse racing but i hear of the stories of horses that broke legs having to be put down. Just wondering are there many horses put down due to injuries in flat racing compared to the hurdles? Is it a rare thing in the flats?

unfortunately it does happen in flat racing but it also happens 'at home' where a horse might just be running around a field and might break a leg.

It's heartbreaking for the people involved. Just think about the lad or girl who looked after Synchronised every day, they will have been heartbroken today. Tony McCoy gave up his last ride yesterday because he was distraught. Jonjo and JP would also have been in the same boat.

lividduck · 15-04-2012 02:31PM

kfallon wrote: »

My point is you're talking thru your hole, as usual!

`Jaysus thats a bit ott

Super-Rush · 15-04-2012 02:32PM

kfallon wrote: »

My point is you're talking thru your hole, as usual!

Keep your personal grievances out of this thread please.

argosy2006 · 15-04-2012 02:43PM

If you were to ban horse racing today then 1000's and 1000's of horse races around the world would be killed tomorrow, They would have no purpose,
Now who wants to kill 1000's of race horses,
No one,

More people died yesterday in car accidents that horses died racing,
So lets ban driving,

No one likes to see horses die, But it happens ,sadly

Fences are two high, and two many, eliminate 5 fences lower rest, make trip 4 m,

Brook needs to be level on other side, Not tricking a horse into jumping a fence that is much deeper on other side, Jumping into a hole!
Why?

Seomra Mushie · 15-04-2012 02:46PM

later12 wrote: »

...
However, there is a credibility issue in question when people attach human emotions to horses and respond with outrage at the notion that a horse might enjoy hunting.

My dislike of foxhunting is do with the fox's experience not the horse's. I assumed many people were the same?

4zn76tysfajdxp · 15-04-2012 02:48PM

argosy2006 wrote: »

If you were to ban horse racing today then 1000's and 1000's of horse races around the world would be killed tomorrow, They would have no purpose,
Now who wants to kill 1000's of race horses

dr.bollocko. :mad:

colinslade · 15-04-2012 02:50PM

El Horseboxo wrote: »

I don't watch horse racing but i hear of the stories of horses that broke legs having to be put down. Just wondering are there many horses put down due to injuries in flat racing compared to the hurdles? Is it a rare thing in the flats?

Think fig is about 2.5-3 per 1000 for jumps an 1 per 1000 for flat. V SA to see these racehorses dying but these racehorses are better treated than almost any animal you can think of. Plenty horses die in wild too from hunger and similar falls etc.

Discodog · 15-04-2012 02:50PM

argosy2006 wrote: »

If you were to ban horse racing today then 1000's and 1000's of horse races around the world would be killed tomorrow, They would have no purpose,
Now who wants to kill 1000's of race horses,
No one,

I don't support a ban but your argument is seriously flawed. Yes thousands might be killed but it would prevent the deaths of thousands more during the following years. You may not of seen it earlier in the thread but over 4000 unwanted Thoroughbred horses were killed in Ireland in 2010 alone.

The basic problem with any animal that is bred for a human purpose like "entertainment" is that it becomes disposable once it no longer serves the purpose. Many people would be horrified if we got rid of our dog because we fancied a different breed. But this is acceptable to the equine fraternity. People claim the love for their pony until they need a bigger one then they are happy to replace it.

I would have far less of a problem with horse & greyhound racing if the owners were committed to caring for the animals for the duration of their natural lives.

colinslade · 15-04-2012 02:53PM

argosy2006 wrote: »

If you were to ban horse racing today then 1000's and 1000's of horse races around the world would be killed tomorrow, They would have no purpose,
Now who wants to kill 1000's of race horses,
No one,

More people died yesterday in car accidents that horses died racing,
So lets ban driving,

No one likes to see horses die, But it happens ,sadly

Fences are two high, and two many, eliminate 5 fences lower rest, make trip 4 m,

Brook needs to be level on other side, Not tricking a horse into jumping a fence that is much deeper on other side, Jumping into a hole!
Why?

Think a lot of problem is they have lowered many fences allowing the horses to jump them much quicker. Slightly higher and will slow th pace of the race a lot. No of fatalities in the GN massively reduced from a decade ago

Should horse racing be banned?

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