Households to pay cost of installing water meters

desaparecidos · 15-04-2012 12:34PM #1

www.rte.ie/news/2012/0415/households-to-pay-cost-of-water-meters.html

It has been reported by The Sunday Times that this could amount to around €300.

However, a spokesperson for the department said this was just speculation and the cost will be determined by the regulator.

The Cabinet will discuss the final details of setting up a new public sector body on Tuesday.

Irish Water will introduce water metering and take over the running of water services from local authorities.

Under the EU-IMF deal, water charges must be introduced by the end of 2013.

Meters will be installed to 1m households over the next two to three years.

A further 300,000 apartments will not have meters and will pay a fixed charge.

Installation of water meters will begin in the next few months.

The Commission for Energy Regulation will regulate services and will be responsible for determining the cost of charges, the free allowance and the framework for levying charges.

Minster for the Environment Phil Hogan has said this will create up to 2,000 construction jobs.

Can anyone confirm if people who have their own well, pump their own water, pay for the running costs of the pump will have a water meter installed?

beeftotheheels · 15-04-2012 12:41PM

desaparecidos wrote: »

Can anyone confirm if people who have their own well, pump their own water, pay for the running costs of the pump will have a water meter installed?

No. That would be daft. Just as it is currently daft that people avail of mains water without having to pay for it.

This balances things out a bit.

I had the choice a couple of months back of digging a well or joining the mains. The well option would have cost almost double the mains option up front, and I'd have had ongoing maintenance issues.

The mains route is cheaper and easier for me - so it's only right I should pay for the ongoing maintenance.

desaparecidos · 15-04-2012 12:45PM

beeftotheheels wrote: »

No. That would be daft.

Yes, it would be daft. It's just that any politician or media outlet which has mentioned water charges always use the word all when referring to what will be metered.

liammur · 15-04-2012 12:48PM

The politicians are handling this very poorly. They need PR lessons.

We are told the household charge is to pay for services, yet we are now paying for bins/water etc.

Why on earth they don't tell the truth is beyond me.

beeftotheheels · 15-04-2012 01:03PM

desaparecidos wrote: »

Yes, it would be daft. It's just that any politician or media outlet which has mentioned water charges always use the word all when referring to what will be metered.

And here we have the collateral damage of Mr Hogan's communication strategy relating to the household charge.

People now believe his department capable of introducing daft legislation.

I think they'll stop short of daft and leave well owners alone. How they'll communicate it to us is an entirely different matter.

km79 · 15-04-2012 03:23PM

Our meter was installed last year so will we be retrospectivaley charged ...

Bullseye1 · 15-04-2012 03:53PM

Can someone explain how we are getting water for free when we pay taxes?

Skopzz · 15-04-2012 04:05PM

Luckily I didn't register for this banker's household charge. I feel sorry for the suckers who did register now that they're on the database.

CptMackey · 15-04-2012 04:20PM

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Can someone explain how we are getting water for free when we pay taxes?

It's not free. Having worked in water services there is alot that they need to do before the charge for it. There is upwards to 50% of water that is produced lost before it reaches your Tap tho. Alot of local authorities got rid of their leak detection programme around 08 09.

They need to reform the la before they charge for "services"

Manach · 15-04-2012 04:24PM

There is a small stream passing through my land. Can I now charge the council for this resources? :rolleyes:

Oceans12 · 15-04-2012 05:03PM

confirmation on the news, that homeowners to pay for the cost of the water meter!

FG shower of muppets.

howamidifferent · 15-04-2012 05:11PM

Oceans12 wrote: »

confirmation on the news, that homeowners to pay for the cost of the water meter!

FG shower of muppets.

While labour think the most important thing to discuss while the country is in **** is that we appoint an ambassador to the kiddyfiddlers company. :mad:

Bullseye1 · 15-04-2012 05:13PM

Labour are only concerned with not selling off public utilities and protecting the Croke Park Agreement.

lightspeed · 15-04-2012 05:21PM

Well if we are supposed to believe that this is something dictated by the troika and the europe than i think the people will now know what to vote for on the fiscal treaty referendum. NO.

I paid the household charge because i know how much my father overreacts and worries if someone tells him he owes them money even when he doesent. He was convinced he would end up in the joy if we didnt pay it. However even the father wont be willing to pay this. It will never happen that people will pay for water meters to be put in their homes so they can be charged money for drinking water and washing their children. Just no way. I dont care how many penalties or what blackmail threat they use. Sure if I dont pay and violently refuse to have it installed I could get arrested and then win free water in the joy.

:D
Its gonna be interesting when sinn fein win the next election.

Oceans12 · 15-04-2012 05:22PM

whats next on the tax menu a €1200 yearly property tax?

FG are taking the piss.. what do school teachers know about running a country.?

lightspeed · 15-04-2012 05:39PM

How do they think they can persuade people to purchase a meter for their home so they can now be charged for their water. Im sick of people saying it only right we pay for pur local services. Is the bin tax not for the bins? Is this household charge not for local services? Is the USC not just another tax. A country with too low of a corporation tax, banking bailouts and cosy deals like the croke park agreement to gaurantee that the rich to continue to get overpaid huges sums of cash and pay f**k all tax. For those that made the mistake of voting Fianna Gael as i did are you proud that the country represents nothing but corruption?

Dubit10 · 15-04-2012 05:43PM

Anyone who registered for the household charge will be on the system for this now. First of many you guys suck it up.

MadsL · 15-04-2012 05:53PM

Dubit10 wrote: »

Anyone who registered for the household charge will be on the system for this now. First of many you guys suck it up.

Because it is now a dog-eat-dog world? And better to 'sacrifice' those who were 'stupid' enough to register 'first' for water charges.

Hmm, bet you are well prepared for the zombie apocalypse as well.

Interesting how Ireland has become a land where the law-abiding are 'suckers'. Is this really how citizens of a democracy should see things?

_Kaiser_ · 15-04-2012 06:03PM

MadsL wrote: »

Interesting how Ireland has become a land where the law-abiding are 'suckers'. Is this really how citizens of a democracy should see things?

You don't really think Ireland is a democracy do you? With a political system where the 2 main players are 2 sides of the same coin, controlled by a party whip and where anything "different" simply doesn't feature.

As for your law-abiding comment.. there have been many "laws" repealed throughout history for being unfair, unjust, discriminatory etc etc - this is no different.

This government has lost the plot - first the debacle that was/is the Household Charge (and for what - €160m? A drop in the ocean compared to what they've given away to gamblers who had no legal right to compensation for their bad bets) and now this?

Well I'd imagine they can kiss goodbye to their Austerity Treaty being passed, and with any luck the rotten mess that is the EU will pass (into history) with it.

Chazz Michael Michaels · 15-04-2012 06:07PM

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

You don't really think Ireland is a democracy do you? With a political system where the 2 main players are 2 sides of the same coin, controlled by a party whip and where anything "different" simply doesn't feature.

As for your law-abiding comment.. there have been many "laws" repealed throughout history for being unfair, unjust, discriminatory etc etc - this is no different.

This government has lost the plot - first the debacle that was/is the Household Charge (and for what - €160m? A drop in the ocean compared to what they've given away to gamblers who had no legal right to compensation for their bad bets) and now this?

Well I'd imagine they can kiss goodbye to their Austerity Treaty being passed, and with any luck the rotten mess that is the EU will pass (into history) with it.

Why on Earth would the EU vanish? That makes no sense, at all.

liammur · 15-04-2012 06:25PM

Oceans12 wrote: »

whats next on the tax menu a €1200 yearly property tax?

FG are taking the piss.. what do school teachers know about running a country.?

The problem is far deeper than that imo. Nobody will know how to run a country in a place like Spain/Ireland/Greece. We are basically out of bullets.

stock> · 15-04-2012 06:26PM

It high time we reduced the number of politicians. We have way to many councillors with their noses stuck in the trough,just look at the expenses they draw down.
The parties in government have breached the so called pay ceiling,the health service is in ruins, the education system is under threat and no I'm not involved in it.
In four years time they will all run off with their fat pensions in the same manner as the last lot.
I will seriously look at what alternative parties are around for the local elections and the next general election.

After this debacle along with the septic tank and household charges the upcoming referendum will fail..............

murphaph · 15-04-2012 06:45PM

lightspeed wrote: »

How do they think they can persuade people to purchase a meter for their home so they can now be charged for their water. Im sick of people saying it only right we pay for pur local services. Is the bin tax not for the bins? Is this household charge not for local services? Is the USC not just another tax. A country with too low of a corporation tax, banking bailouts and cosy deals like the croke park agreement to gaurantee that the rich to continue to get overpaid huges sums of cash and pay f**k all tax. For those that made the mistake of voting Fianna Gael as i did are you proud that the country represents nothing but corruption?

Germany has hefty corporation taxes but the individual and the property owner get taxed more heavily too. Water metering is a fact of life here. In my building we have a common meter and the bill is divided equally amongst the 12 units at the end of the year, but we've opted to install individual meters as there are clearly some people using much more water than the average.

Ireland has lots of problems. We overpay for our public services and at the very same time our tax base is too narrow. we should be getting better value from our public services but we should also be paying a bit more tax than we have been.

We should then see fewer stealth taxes, tolls, charges to visit a doctor and so on. That's what we should be moving towards IMO.

I agree with a lot of what you say by the way, but realistically Ireland relies so heavily on FDI that the idea of increasing corporation taxes and leaving the little guy alone is completely wrong. It'd be economic suicide to make doing business in Ireland anymore uncompetitive than it already is. We don't have the luxury that Germany has to tax VW and Siemens etc. to the hilt because they trade off the "Made in Germany" image and their German location is typically important for them.

Arguably, the standard of living in Ireland should have never really climbed so high for a remote island off the western edge of Europe, with no natural resources of note and with an average education system and poor infrastructure relative to most continental countries.

ednwireland · 15-04-2012 06:48PM

theres a second home database, a prtsb database, a household charge database, a water charges database, a septic tank database no doubt all created and updated by seperate depts. heres a thought get an post or esb to create the database, send out bills and do what you need to do.

but no the irish civil service think the best way is to create several random systems, so no joined up thinking , no efficiencies and no doubt any charges will be sucked into creating a bigger public sector black hole

honestly i'm sick of their incompetance

Dannyboy83 · 15-04-2012 09:21PM

€300........??

Didn't Siemens offer to install the water metres for the government?

http://www.greenbusiness.ie/news/2010/siemens-offers-to-install-domestic-water-meters/
The offer from Siemens would see them lend the money required to install up to 1.1 million domestic water meters. The costs would be repaid through savings in the Government’s multi-billion euro water services programme.

touts · 15-04-2012 10:06PM

I wonde what other great ideas Fine Gale and New Workers Party have in store for us?

Visitors to sick people in hospitals expected to bring in meals, blankets for their loved ones and scrub the area around the bed daily. That way relatives will be less concerned about the risk of secondary infection as they will have direct control over the factors most likely to lead to infection.

Parents expected to chip in every month to pay the wages of their children's teachers. That way parents have a greater say in the ideal pupil teacher ratio and subjects provided in their local school.

Street lights to be wired directly into the electricity of the nearest house. Therefore local residents can take ovnership of the problem of carbon emmissions and only operate the lights at optimum times for their needs.

A call outcharge for gardai just like the highly successful "My house is on fire I'll pay whatever you want just please save it” charge for availing of Fire Brigade service and the very popular ”My child is dying here is €100 now open the ****ing door and let us in” accident tax at A&E.

And I'm sure they have many more in store for us before we get to send them into the abyss in the next election. I think it is easier to understand government policy when you consider it all as them getting their retaliation in first.

bbsrs · 15-04-2012 10:15PM

If they charge people for the water meter and not the installation according to Enda, is the water meter your property then because you specifically paid for it . If you then sell your property can you take your water meter with you when you leave and say have it installed in a new build for instance . It's ridiculous , taxes pay for infrastructure and the meters will become part of the infrastructure so the government should facilitate payment from the tax take.

Godge · 15-04-2012 10:32PM

lightspeed wrote: »

How do they think they can persuade people to purchase a meter for their home so they can now be charged for their water. Im sick of people saying it only right we pay for pur local services. Is the bin tax not for the bins? Is this household charge not for local services? Is the USC not just another tax. A country with too low of a corporation tax, banking bailouts and cosy deals like the croke park agreement to gaurantee that the rich to continue to get overpaid huges sums of cash and pay f**k all tax. For those that made the mistake of voting Fianna Gael as i did are you proud that the country represents nothing but corruption?

(1) Who are Fianna Gael? Never heard of them
(2) There is no bin tax. You pay your charges or you legally dispose of your waste some other way.
(3) How does the Croke Park Agreement guarantee that the rich continue to get overpaid huge sums of cash and pay little tax? Last I checked, it had nothing to do with the rich who own property in Ireland (it is the household charge that is the first step to deal with those rich) and it had nothing to do with tax.

Fed up with the standard "bash the new government for no reason and blame all our ills on the CPA " type of debating around here.

Oafley Jones · 15-04-2012 10:39PM

bbsrs wrote: »

If they charge people for the water meter and not the installation according to Enda, is the water meter your property then because you specifically paid for it . If you then sell your property can you take your water meter with you when you leave and say have it installed in a new build for instance . It's ridiculous , taxes pay for infrastructure and the meters will become part of the infrastructure so the government should facilitate payment from the tax take.

I always under the assumption that a home owner couldn't own their meter, otherwise a home owner would be well within their right to adjust the readings of what was their property?

woodoo · 15-04-2012 10:55PM

People talk abut its only right we pay a property tax other countries do, its only right we pay water charges others do etc.

But we are already paying a road tax that is more like a property tax with the rates so high. What other countries in Europe are paying €600 per year to drive a 1.9 VW Golf/Passat or a Mondeo. Average family cars.

bbsrs · 15-04-2012 11:13PM

Oafley Jones wrote: »

bbsrs wrote: »

If they charge people for the water meter and not the installation according to Enda, is the water meter your property then because you specifically paid for it . If you then sell your property can you take your water meter with you when you leave and say have it installed in a new build for instance . It's ridiculous , taxes pay for infrastructure and the meters will become part of the infrastructure so the government should facilitate payment from the tax take.

I always under the assumption that a home owner couldn't own their meter, otherwise a home owner would be well within their right to adjust the readings of what was their property?

Basically it just a one off water meter tax then , why can't they just say that instead of telling us you're paying for your own meter but lucky you we won't charge you for installation . I suppose there will be those that are exempt again and the good old Paye worker will keep on paying his /her unfair share.

Households to pay cost of installing water meters

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