Households to pay cost of installing water meters

desaparecidos

www.rte.ie/news/2012/0415/households-to-pay-cost-of-water-meters.html

It has been reported by The Sunday Times that this could amount to around €300.

However, a spokesperson for the department said this was just speculation and the cost will be determined by the regulator.

The Cabinet will discuss the final details of setting up a new public sector body on Tuesday.

Irish Water will introduce water metering and take over the running of water services from local authorities.

Under the EU-IMF deal, water charges must be introduced by the end of 2013.

Meters will be installed to 1m households over the next two to three years.

A further 300,000 apartments will not have meters and will pay a fixed charge.

Installation of water meters will begin in the next few months.

The Commission for Energy Regulation will regulate services and will be responsible for determining the cost of charges, the free allowance and the framework for levying charges.

Minster for the Environment Phil Hogan has said this will create up to 2,000 construction jobs.

Can anyone confirm if people who have their own well, pump their own water, pay for the running costs of the pump will have a water meter installed?

beeftotheheels

desaparecidos wrote: »

Can anyone confirm if people who have their own well, pump their own water, pay for the running costs of the pump will have a water meter installed?

No. That would be daft. Just as it is currently daft that people avail of mains water without having to pay for it.

This balances things out a bit.

I had the choice a couple of months back of digging a well or joining the mains. The well option would have cost almost double the mains option up front, and I'd have had ongoing maintenance issues.

The mains route is cheaper and easier for me - so it's only right I should pay for the ongoing maintenance.

desaparecidos

beeftotheheels wrote: »

No. That would be daft.

Yes, it would be daft. It's just that any politician or media outlet which has mentioned water charges always use the word all when referring to what will be metered.

liammur

The politicians are handling this very poorly. They need PR lessons.

We are told the household charge is to pay for services, yet we are now paying for bins/water etc.

Why on earth they don't tell the truth is beyond me.

beeftotheheels

desaparecidos wrote: »

Yes, it would be daft. It's just that any politician or media outlet which has mentioned water charges always use the word all when referring to what will be metered.

And here we have the collateral damage of Mr Hogan's communication strategy relating to the household charge.

People now believe his department capable of introducing daft legislation.

I think they'll stop short of daft and leave well owners alone. How they'll communicate it to us is an entirely different matter.

km79

Our meter was installed last year so will we be retrospectivaley charged ...

Bullseye1

Can someone explain how we are getting water for free when we pay taxes?

Skopzz

Luckily I didn't register for this banker's household charge. I feel sorry for the suckers who did register now that they're on the database.

CptMackey

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Can someone explain how we are getting water for free when we pay taxes?

It's not free. Having worked in water services there is alot that they need to do before the charge for it. There is upwards to 50% of water that is produced lost before it reaches your Tap tho. Alot of local authorities got rid of their leak detection programme around 08 09.

They need to reform the la before they charge for "services"

Manach

There is a small stream passing through my land. Can I now charge the council for this resources? :rolleyes:

Oceans12

confirmation on the news, that homeowners to pay for the cost of the water meter!

FG shower of muppets.

howamidifferent

Oceans12 wrote: »

confirmation on the news, that homeowners to pay for the cost of the water meter!

FG shower of muppets.

While labour think the most important thing to discuss while the country is in **** is that we appoint an ambassador to the kiddyfiddlers company. :mad:

Bullseye1

Labour are only concerned with not selling off public utilities and protecting the Croke Park Agreement.

lightspeed

Well if we are supposed to believe that this is something dictated by the troika and the europe than i think the people will now know what to vote for on the fiscal treaty referendum. NO.

I paid the household charge because i know how much my father overreacts and worries if someone tells him he owes them money even when he doesent. He was convinced he would end up in the joy if we didnt pay it. However even the father wont be willing to pay this. It will never happen that people will pay for water meters to be put in their homes so they can be charged money for drinking water and washing their children. Just no way. I dont care how many penalties or what blackmail threat they use. Sure if I dont pay and violently refuse to have it installed I could get arrested and then win free water in the joy. :D
Its gonna be interesting when sinn fein win the next election.

Oceans12

whats next on the tax menu a €1200 yearly property tax?


FG are taking the piss.. what do school teachers know about running a country.?

lightspeed

How do they think they can persuade people to purchase a meter for their home so they can now be charged for their water. Im sick of people saying it only right we pay for pur local services. Is the bin tax not for the bins? Is this household charge not for local services? Is the USC not just another tax. A country with too low of a corporation tax, banking bailouts and cosy deals like the croke park agreement to gaurantee that the rich to continue to get overpaid huges sums of cash and pay f**k all tax. For those that made the mistake of voting Fianna Gael as i did are you proud that the country represents nothing but corruption?

Dubit10

Anyone who registered for the household charge will be on the system for this now. First of many you guys suck it up.

MadsL

Dubit10 wrote: »

Anyone who registered for the household charge will be on the system for this now. First of many you guys suck it up.

Because it is now a dog-eat-dog world? And better to 'sacrifice' those who were 'stupid' enough to register 'first' for water charges.

Hmm, bet you are well prepared for the zombie apocalypse as well.

Interesting how Ireland has become a land where the law-abiding are 'suckers'. Is this really how citizens of a democracy should see things?

_Kaiser_

MadsL wrote: »

Interesting how Ireland has become a land where the law-abiding are 'suckers'. Is this really how citizens of a democracy should see things?

You don't really think Ireland is a democracy do you? With a political system where the 2 main players are 2 sides of the same coin, controlled by a party whip and where anything "different" simply doesn't feature.

As for your law-abiding comment.. there have been many "laws" repealed throughout history for being unfair, unjust, discriminatory etc etc - this is no different.

This government has lost the plot - first the debacle that was/is the Household Charge (and for what - €160m? A drop in the ocean compared to what they've given away to gamblers who had no legal right to compensation for their bad bets) and now this?

Well I'd imagine they can kiss goodbye to their Austerity Treaty being passed, and with any luck the rotten mess that is the EU will pass (into history) with it.

Chazz Michael Michaels

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

You don't really think Ireland is a democracy do you? With a political system where the 2 main players are 2 sides of the same coin, controlled by a party whip and where anything "different" simply doesn't feature.

As for your law-abiding comment.. there have been many "laws" repealed throughout history for being unfair, unjust, discriminatory etc etc - this is no different.

This government has lost the plot - first the debacle that was/is the Household Charge (and for what - €160m? A drop in the ocean compared to what they've given away to gamblers who had no legal right to compensation for their bad bets) and now this?

Well I'd imagine they can kiss goodbye to their Austerity Treaty being passed, and with any luck the rotten mess that is the EU will pass (into history) with it.

Why on Earth would the EU vanish? That makes no sense, at all.

liammur

Oceans12 wrote: »

whats next on the tax menu a €1200 yearly property tax?


FG are taking the piss.. what do school teachers know about running a country.?

The problem is far deeper than that imo. Nobody will know how to run a country in a place like Spain/Ireland/Greece. We are basically out of bullets.

stock>

It high time we reduced the number of politicians. We have way to many councillors with their noses stuck in the trough,just look at the expenses they draw down.
The parties in government have breached the so called pay ceiling,the health service is in ruins, the education system is under threat and no I'm not involved in it.
In four years time they will all run off with their fat pensions in the same manner as the last lot.
I will seriously look at what alternative parties are around for the local elections and the next general election.

After this debacle along with the septic tank and household charges the upcoming referendum will fail..............

murphaph

lightspeed wrote: »

How do they think they can persuade people to purchase a meter for their home so they can now be charged for their water. Im sick of people saying it only right we pay for pur local services. Is the bin tax not for the bins? Is this household charge not for local services? Is the USC not just another tax. A country with too low of a corporation tax, banking bailouts and cosy deals like the croke park agreement to gaurantee that the rich to continue to get overpaid huges sums of cash and pay f**k all tax. For those that made the mistake of voting Fianna Gael as i did are you proud that the country represents nothing but corruption?

Germany has hefty corporation taxes but the individual and the property owner get taxed more heavily too. Water metering is a fact of life here. In my building we have a common meter and the bill is divided equally amongst the 12 units at the end of the year, but we've opted to install individual meters as there are clearly some people using much more water than the average.

Ireland has lots of problems. We overpay for our public services and at the very same time our tax base is too narrow. we should be getting better value from our public services but we should also be paying a bit more tax than we have been.

We should then see fewer stealth taxes, tolls, charges to visit a doctor and so on. That's what we should be moving towards IMO.

I agree with a lot of what you say by the way, but realistically Ireland relies so heavily on FDI that the idea of increasing corporation taxes and leaving the little guy alone is completely wrong. It'd be economic suicide to make doing business in Ireland anymore uncompetitive than it already is. We don't have the luxury that Germany has to tax VW and Siemens etc. to the hilt because they trade off the "Made in Germany" image and their German location is typically important for them.

Arguably, the standard of living in Ireland should have never really climbed so high for a remote island off the western edge of Europe, with no natural resources of note and with an average education system and poor infrastructure relative to most continental countries.

ednwireland

theres a second home database, a prtsb database, a household charge database, a water charges database, a septic tank database no doubt all created and updated by seperate depts. heres a thought get an post or esb to create the database, send out bills and do what you need to do.

but no the irish civil service think the best way is to create several random systems, so no joined up thinking , no efficiencies and no doubt any charges will be sucked into creating a bigger public sector black hole

honestly i'm sick of their incompetance

Dannyboy83

€300........??

Didn't Siemens offer to install the water metres for the government?

http://www.greenbusiness.ie/news/2010/siemens-offers-to-install-domestic-water-meters/
The offer from Siemens would see them lend the money required to install up to 1.1 million domestic water meters. The costs would be repaid through savings in the Government’s multi-billion euro water services programme.

touts

I wonde what other great ideas Fine Gale and New Workers Party have in store for us?

Visitors to sick people in hospitals expected to bring in meals, blankets for their loved ones and scrub the area around the bed daily. That way relatives will be less concerned about the risk of secondary infection as they will have direct control over the factors most likely to lead to infection.

Parents expected to chip in every month to pay the wages of their children's teachers. That way parents have a greater say in the ideal pupil teacher ratio and subjects provided in their local school.

Street lights to be wired directly into the electricity of the nearest house. Therefore local residents can take ovnership of the problem of carbon emmissions and only operate the lights at optimum times for their needs.

A call outcharge for gardai just like the highly successful "My house is on fire I'll pay whatever you want just please save it” charge for availing of Fire Brigade service and the very popular ”My child is dying here is €100 now open the ****ing door and let us in” accident tax at A&E.

And I'm sure they have many more in store for us before we get to send them into the abyss in the next election. I think it is easier to understand government policy when you consider it all as them getting their retaliation in first.

bbsrs

If they charge people for the water meter and not the installation according to Enda, is the water meter your property then because you specifically paid for it . If you then sell your property can you take your water meter with you when you leave and say have it installed in a new build for instance . It's ridiculous , taxes pay for infrastructure and the meters will become part of the infrastructure so the government should facilitate payment from the tax take.

Godge

lightspeed wrote: »

How do they think they can persuade people to purchase a meter for their home so they can now be charged for their water. Im sick of people saying it only right we pay for pur local services. Is the bin tax not for the bins? Is this household charge not for local services? Is the USC not just another tax. A country with too low of a corporation tax, banking bailouts and cosy deals like the croke park agreement to gaurantee that the rich to continue to get overpaid huges sums of cash and pay f**k all tax. For those that made the mistake of voting Fianna Gael as i did are you proud that the country represents nothing but corruption?

(1) Who are Fianna Gael? Never heard of them
(2) There is no bin tax. You pay your charges or you legally dispose of your waste some other way.
(3) How does the Croke Park Agreement guarantee that the rich continue to get overpaid huge sums of cash and pay little tax? Last I checked, it had nothing to do with the rich who own property in Ireland (it is the household charge that is the first step to deal with those rich) and it had nothing to do with tax.

Fed up with the standard "bash the new government for no reason and blame all our ills on the CPA " type of debating around here.

Oafley Jones

bbsrs wrote: »

If they charge people for the water meter and not the installation according to Enda, is the water meter your property then because you specifically paid for it . If you then sell your property can you take your water meter with you when you leave and say have it installed in a new build for instance . It's ridiculous , taxes pay for infrastructure and the meters will become part of the infrastructure so the government should facilitate payment from the tax take.

I always under the assumption that a home owner couldn't own their meter, otherwise a home owner would be well within their right to adjust the readings of what was their property?

woodoo

People talk abut its only right we pay a property tax other countries do, its only right we pay water charges others do etc.

But we are already paying a road tax that is more like a property tax with the rates so high. What other countries in Europe are paying €600 per year to drive a 1.9 VW Golf/Passat or a Mondeo. Average family cars.

bbsrs

Oafley Jones wrote: »

bbsrs wrote: »

If they charge people for the water meter and not the installation according to Enda, is the water meter your property then because you specifically paid for it . If you then sell your property can you take your water meter with you when you leave and say have it installed in a new build for instance . It's ridiculous , taxes pay for infrastructure and the meters will become part of the infrastructure so the government should facilitate payment from the tax take.

I always under the assumption that a home owner couldn't own their meter, otherwise a home owner would be well within their right to adjust the readings of what was their property?

Basically it just a one off water meter tax then , why can't they just say that instead of telling us you're paying for your own meter but lucky you we won't charge you for installation . I suppose there will be those that are exempt again and the good old Paye worker will keep on paying his /her unfair share.

CapBean

Got news for you folks, the government has to implement another two austerity budgets before 2014 in order to be able to borrow from the markets and also as part of the bailout that Fianna Fail agreed to. That’s another Six Billion that has to come from somewhere. This is why all these new tax’s/charges are being implemented. The IMF wants its money back. The fiscal referendum hasn’t been published in public yet, as far as I know, so no one really knows what’s in it.
As for the Croke Park agreement, that’s being left for the last budget so as to avoid any problems with the unions. The public pay bill is still too excessive and this still needs to be cut. Too much money wasted. County Councils have a budget each year that they have to spend or they must pass what remains back to the government coffers. Then next year because they had spare cash, the councils are given less money as it’s deemed that they don’t need the extra cash. So what happens? Right before the kids go back to school there’s a sudden increase in work being done by the councils. For example, any new alterations to road junctions where they weren’t necessary, new road humps suddenly appearing on roads that don’t need them, (these cost 15 grand each to install). How many pot holes or road resurfacing takes place near the end of the year? Why not do this work during the summer instead? Waste, waste and more waste. Do you know that some council workers used to get paid a bonus for arriving to work on time? Ahh, taxpayers money well spent don’t you know. We had a council worker hired by my previous employer once. He thought he could take a week to do what we did in a day. And his excuse was, that’s how we do it in the council.

Also people need to see the bigger picture. The National Lottery, ESB, Bord Na Mona, Aer Lingus, the new water board and various other state and semi-state companies are being made ready to be sold off to the highest bidder. This is what Germany and the IMF wants. The only winners here are the global corporations who will buy these assets dirt cheap and in a few years sell them at highly inflated prices. This has already happened in England with the water, bins and rail services. An Irish example is Eircom. The government told the citizens that, sure having shares in Eircom was a great idea. Anyone who bought those shares lost all their money when Eircom was sold off to speculators. After passing through the hands of several speculators and asset stripped at each turn, it’s now in even deeper debt than when it was first privatised and sold off.
Don’t kid yourself, we the Irish people are known in Europe for being pushovers. Sure didn’t we have to redo not one but two European referendums in order to get the right result for Europe. Wasn’t it Fianna Fail’s reasoning that if we didn’t vote for the two referendums we would lose out on jobs and prosperity?
Now ask yourself this, how many of you went to the protests that were held in Dublin over the last few months? I went but I didn’t see many Irish there, it was mostly foreign workers. The Irish complain but do nothing to change anything.
So don’t kid yourself, in the end we’ll all pay whatever tax’s or charges that are introduced.
We’ll just complain about it first!

NakedNNettles

Yeah, some Irish like to complain a lot and thump their chest when they 'beat' the system (household charge).

.....but when the dust settles and nobody is looking.....these same ones are sneakily paying all their charges, then telling everyone else the opposite.

I think the words are 'glic holes'.

Dubit10

MadsL wrote: »

Because it is now a dog-eat-dog world? And better to 'sacrifice' those who were 'stupid' enough to register 'first' for water charges.

Hmm, bet you are well prepared for the zombie apocalypse as well.

Interesting how Ireland has become a land where the law-abiding are 'suckers'. Is this really how citizens of a democracy should see things?

It's the way it is i'm afraid. You get the government you deserve.

Dubit10

ednwireland wrote: »

theres a second home database, a prtsb database, a household charge database, a water charges database, a septic tank database no doubt all created and updated by seperate depts. heres a thought get an post or esb to create the database, send out bills and do what you need to do.

but no the irish civil service think the best way is to create several random sytems, so no joined up thinking , no efficiencies and no doubt any charges will be sucked into creating a bigger public sector black hole

honestly i'm sick of their incompetance

Yeah so is everyone, the problem is we as a people have'nt got the guts to do anything about it.

ednwireland

CapBean wrote: »

As for the Croke Park agreement, that’s being left for the last budget so as to avoid any problems with the unions.

if thats the plan they are even more stupid than i thought,it will hand power straight to SF at the next election

Sleepy

liammur wrote: »

Why on earth they don't tell the truth is beyond me.

Because the public don't want to hear the truth.

liammur

Sleepy wrote: »

Because the public don't want to hear the truth.

Maybe so, but from the current govt's point of view it's a no brainer. This is their choice:

We have to bring in these charges because FF have the country up to it's eyes in debt. OR

We need the household charge to bring you world class services.

The latter of course also gives FF plenty of ammo.

DoesNotCompute

liammur wrote: »

The politicians are handling this very poorly. They need PR lessons.

We are told the household charge is to pay for services, yet we are now paying for bins/water etc.

Why on earth they don't tell the truth is beyond me.

The HHC isn't intended to pay for bins or water. It's been said multiple times, and it's out there in the open for anyone to see.

From the Household Charge website:

https://www.householdcharge.ie/ wrote:

The EU/IMF Programme of Financial Support for Ireland commits the Government to the introduction of a property tax for 2012. We are one of the last countries in Europe that does not fund local services through local property-based charges.

These services are essential to your community. They include: fire and emergency services; maintenance and cleaning of streets; planning and development; public parks; street lighting; libraries; open spaces and leisure amenities. These facilities benefit everyone.

Nothing in there about bins or water.

seamus

There must be more to this plan or FG are really down the swanee.

Water charges, fine. Forcing homeowners to buy and install a meter for the purposes of charging them for their water usage? Good luck with that one.

Any legislation would likely be subject to much challenge, not least because they would effectively be trying to retroactively impose building regulations on buildings which are already built and up to standard.

I'm struggling to think of any legislation which could legally require a homeowner to install a meter in their existing property, that wouldn't be completely ripped apart by the courts.

The best approach would be to arrange a flat charge for non-metered households, and then you will find that people quickly slot in meters in order to drive down their water bill. But if that's their plan, they have completely screwed up by not announcing it that way.

In general I have no issue with the charges or the fact that we don't really have choice in the EU/IMF deal. But, "You must pay to install a meter so that we can charge you for your water"? Even Michael O'Leary couldn't sell that one.

rainbowdash

Skopzz wrote: »

Luckily I didn't register for this banker's household charge. I feel sorry for the suckers who did register now that they're on the database.

I have not registered yet either, but I don't see how I am going to get around paying it sooner rather than later.

Interest and penalties are accrueing on my property and I am sure people have done the sums around here before but in 10 years or so I will end up owing god knows how much, maybe €5000 or in 20 years maybe €20000, and if I ever go to sell the property it has to be paid before anybody can buy it.

Galwayguy35

beeftotheheels wrote: »

No. That would be daft. Just as it is currently daft that people avail of mains water without having to pay for it.

This balances things out a bit.

I had the choice a couple of months back of digging a well or joining the mains. The well option would have cost almost double the mains option up front, and I'd have had ongoing maintenance issues.

The mains route is cheaper and easier for me - so it's only right I should pay for the ongoing maintenance.

I dont have a problem paying for my water usage but I do not see why I should have to pay to install a meter @ a cost of pobably €300.

liammur

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

The HHC isn't intended to pay for bins or water. It's been said multiple times, and it's out there in the open for anyone to see.

From the Household Charge website:


Nothing in there about bins or water.

That's exactly where they are falling down. Before we were getting all of these free and water and bins.

1 by 1, these will be scratched off the list, your local library is closing down due to lack of funds. Park has to be closed down due to anti- social behaviour etc

Galwayguy35

liammur wrote: »

That's exactly where they are falling down. Before we were getting all of these free and water and bins.

1 by 1, these will be scratched off the list, your local library is closing down due to lack of funds. Park has to be closed down due to anti- social behaviour etc

Dont know where you live but around here we always paid for our bin collection so I wouldnt be including everyone when you say all.

ednwireland

seamus wrote: »

There must be more to this plan or FG are really down the swanee.

Water charges, fine. Forcing homeowners to buy and install a meter for the purposes of charging them for their water usage? Good luck with that one.

Any legislation would likely be subject to much challenge, not least because they would effectively be trying to retroactively impose building regulations on buildings which are already built and up to standard.

I'm struggling to think of any legislation which could legally require a homeowner to install a meter in their existing property, that wouldn't be completely ripped apart by the courts.

The best approach would be to arrange a flat charge for non-metered households, and then you will find that people quickly slot in meters in order to drive down their water bill. But if that's their plan, they have completely screwed up by not announcing it that way.

In general I have no issue with the charges or the fact that we don't really have choice in the EU/IMF deal. But, "You must pay to install a meter so that we can charge you for your water"? Even Michael O'Leary couldn't sell that one.

gov cant figure out its ar*e from its elbow shock

liammur

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Dont know where you live but around here we always paid for our bin collection so I wouldnt be including everyone when you say all.

I doubt that very much indeed.

Galwayguy35

liammur wrote: »

I doubt that very much indeed.

Well you can doubt all you want but I and everyone else around here always paid for our bin collection. The only people who seemed to be getting it done for free were the Dubs.

CapBean

The government knows full well what their doing.
As part of the bailout deal we the Irish people have to sell our state assets to reduce the IMF dept FF got us into.
Once these water meters are installed, how long will it take FG & Labour to sell off the water service like the english did years ago.
Look at their service now.
We'll end up with an overpriced service and poor water quality, owned and controlled by speculative corporate water companies who's only concern is profits for the shareholders.
And who would buy this service, well maybe French and German water companies of course.
This type of thing happens in every country where the IMF get involved.

As for the house hold charge, does anyone know where this money is being spent in their local community?
Can we see the budgets of where this money is going?
What kind of oversite and controls are in place to stop councillors spending the money in their political areas right before rural election times?
Isn't that the reason the budgets were taken away from the county councils years ago, to stop this type of corruption?
If the HHC is to fund local services then if I need to ring for the Fire brigrade, Police or ambulance, will I still get charged a call out fee as happens at present or will that now be covered in the HHC? :mad:

buzz123

Ah I knew there was more to come, now, all I need to hear is that Prisoners in the Mountjoy or elswhere will be paying for their Board and Lodgings.....
We will have to pay to enter the Courts to pay Traffic / parking fines...
We will have to pay to re-enter Ireland after being overseas on business...
They propose installing Toll Booths on your Driveway...
Weigh and charge for any solids contained in your Toilet Water....
Put CO2 emission charges on all Cremations... ( probably already there !)

Paying for a meter that will be used to enable you to be charged is akin to the Condemned paying the Executioner to behead him...which, to those of you who don't know, was a normal practise in years gone by, fair water charges, to a degree..yes but not like this.

If they think for one moment that this will enamour Voters to vot yes on the upcoming referendum, they are in for a huge shock!

Rings of fat Hogan again.

buzz123

CapBean wrote: »

The government knows full well what their doing.
As part of the bailout deal we the Irish people have to sell our state assets to reduce the IMF dept FF got us into.
Once these water meters are installed, how long will it take FG & Labour to sell off the water service like the english did years ago.
Look at their service now.
We'll end up with an overpriced service and poor water quality, owned and controlled by speculative corporate water companies who's only concern is profits for the shareholders.
And who would buy this service, well maybe French and German water companies of course.
This type of thing happens in every country where the IMF get involved.

As for the house hold charge, does anyone know where this money is being spent in their local community?
Can we see the budgets of where this money is going?
What kind of oversite and controls are in place to stop councillors spending the money in their political areas right before rural election times?
Isn't that the reason the budgets were taken away from the county councils years ago, to stop this type of corruption?
If the HHC is to fund local services then if I need to ring for the Fire brigrade, Police or ambulance, will I still get charged a call out fee as happens at present or will that now be covered in the HHC? :mad:

Don't forget, you'll probably be charged for the extra Water used to quash the Fire !!

Sleepy

One might wonder if the water might not be better off provided by a private company. As it stands, we've out crypto-sporidium outbreaks a number of times in recent years and as a number of posters from the Aquarium forum could tell you our water quality is pretty poor in Ireland in general. Given that it'd then be private sector staff providing and billing for the service rather than the expensive (and usually less-than-efficient) local authority staff currently carrying out these roles there should be plenty of room for profit without the need to price gouge.