Should horse racing be banned?

Born to Die · 14-04-2012 06:54PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

Ok, so 13 deaths in the last 20 nationals is no big deal then?

If it were 13 jockey's that were killed then no.

14-04-2012 06:54PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

Ok, so 13 deaths in the last 20 nationals is no big deal then?

13 horses dying in 20 years of a race, while terrible to see and not something I hate happening, does not look like a big number to me.

FloatingVoter · 14-04-2012 06:56PM

This is not about the "cruelty" of horse racing, its about letting that clearly ****ed horse run.

Davidson2k9 · 14-04-2012 06:56PM

I hate watching the grand national, its the one race i hate. But to ban horse racing, no way.

Look at when a horse falls or unseats its rider, what does it do? It gets back up and joins the other horses and completes the race going over the jumps too. They enjoy racing.

Athletes die in car racing, skiing, soccer, all kinds of sports.

Da Shins Kelly · 14-04-2012 06:56PM

Evie90 wrote: »

Personally I think there's no argument for banning the grand national, I've been horse riding for 15 years and competing for about 10 and I've seen at least a dozen horses die while show-jumping or at cross country or hunting they've either died instantly or were put down as a result of their injuries. Does that mean that show-jumping/ cross country/ point to points and hunting should all be banned? should riding on the roads be banned as well because horses and riders die on the roads? Every aspect of horse riding is dangerous, I'm not trying to be sensationalist but if you want to ban one race because horses die while in it, very little would actually be achieved as far as preventing the deaths of horses in sport .

As for the argument that we shouldn't be using horses for sport, they are very intelligent animals with the ability to remove you from their back with very little effort on their part, I honestly believe that horses like to have a purpose and that they do enjoy what they do, for example I compete at cross country and some of the fences I've jumped have been up to five foot and some courses have been quite frankly terrifying but the horse still goes and does it's best when It could easily stop and not move and there would be sweet f*** all the I could do about it. Admittedly it is eerie that Syncronised unseated his rider before the race and clearly wasn't happy so maybe he should not have been run, I feel they most sorry for his grooms as they are probably more attached to the horse than anybody and are most likely absolutely devastated right now.

Also (this is my last point I promise) the economic implications of banning Aintree festival would be massive for all the surrounding hotels/bars/ restaurants and retailers.

The point is that it's one race in the racing calendar and over 20 horses have died in this one race in 12 years. That's a lot. If that many horses were dying in one single cross-country event every year, there would be a reassessment. Most people who understand anything about the equine world agree that racing itself shouldn't be banned, but the Grand National needs to be looked at. First and foremost, reducing the number of runners would greatly reduce the risk. This is something we don't see in cross-country for example - we don't have 40 horses galloping at 5 ft high fences all together.

Believe me, I've seen horses come and go and I've seen my fair share of horrible accidents, but the organised carnage that is the Grand National is just a death trap. That's not what an enjoyable sport should be about, and furthermore, it gives the equine world a bad name.

Where To · 14-04-2012 06:58PM

FloatingVoter wrote: »

The horse (Synchronised) was making it quite clear it didn't feel like running let alone jumping. The fact that JP McManus and Tony McCoy are either too egotistical / greedy or don't understand animals enough to pull the horse from the race is relevant. BTW, I had money on two horsies myself and am not in any animal rights organisation.

McManus should become a bookie (oh look, he is) and McCoy become a "celebrity", he seems to think he is. And yes, the horse was cleared by a vet....funny vet that. Minutes away from death yet unable to diagnose a sick horse.

None of the three should be allowed in a decision making process near any animal in clear distress. Perhaps racing goldfish will be their next career move.

Ummm, he would be have to be a psychic vet to foretell the horse was going to fall.

14-04-2012 06:59PM

FloatingVoter wrote: »

The horse (Synchronised) was making it quite clear it didn't feel like running let alone jumping. The fact that JP McManus and Tony McCoy are either too egotistical / greedy or don't understand animals enough to pull the horse from the race is relevant. BTW, I had money on two horsies myself and am not in any animal rights organisation.

McManus should become a bookie (oh look, he is) and McCoy become a "celebrity", he seems to think he is. And yes, the horse was cleared by a vet....funny vet that. Minutes away from death yet unable to diagnose a sick horse.

None of the three should be allowed in a decision making process near any animal in clear distress. Perhaps racing goldfish will be their next career move.

He did absolutely nothing to indicate he didnt want to run, AP fell of him and he cantered off like any horse would, he actually ran off a lot more relaxed than loose horses usually do. He didnt try to evade being caught and his heart rate was not even elevated as the vet checked. Vets will withdraw a horse if needs be. He wasn't sick, he was just unlucky.

FloatingVoter · 14-04-2012 06:59PM

Where To wrote: »

Ummm, he would be have to be a psychic vet to foretell the horse was going to fall.

Not psychic, observant perhaps.

FloatingVoter · 14-04-2012 07:01PM

I've seen contrary horses before. that horse was ill.

RobbingBandit · 14-04-2012 07:01PM

In honour of Synchronised.

Born to Die · 14-04-2012 07:02PM

FloatingVoter wrote: »

I've seen contrary horses before. that horse was ill.

You know this how?

Dyr · 14-04-2012 07:02PM

tbh any industry that uses animals will be all about maximising their profits rather than caring about the animals welfare. It's just a bit sickening when the industry is using animals to entertain humans.

My name is URL · 14-04-2012 07:03PM

Carolina Disgusting Paperback wrote: »

He did absolutely nothing to indicate he didnt want to run, AP fell of him and he cantered off like any horse would, he actually ran off a lot more relaxed than loose horses usually do. He didnt try to evade being caught and his heart rate was not even elevated as the vet checked. Vets will withdraw a horse if needs be. He wasn't sick, he was just unlucky.

After McCoy got back on the horse and was showing it the fence before the race, it did not look like it wanted to run. Even the commentator said at the time that the horse looked uncomfortable.

later12 · 14-04-2012 07:04PM

FloatingVoter wrote: »

I've seen contrary horses before. that horse was ill.

Oh come on. If you posted that before it happened, I would give you some credit. The idea that vets are deliberately passing horses that are clearly ill is just absurd. The idea that a trainer would allow (or hesitate to sue for negligence) any veterinary surgeon doing such a thing is even worse.

Trainers and owners refrain from sending their horses to meetings all the time when there is a concern over an animal's health.

While I would take the point that there is an ongoing need to re-visit and measure risk and the course deisgn at Aintree, I think you're picking some pretty unrealistic arguments here.

14-04-2012 07:05PM

FloatingVoter wrote: »

I've seen contrary horses before. that horse was ill.

If you think Syncronised was contrary today I doubt you know what a contrary horse is.

Harry Angstrom · 14-04-2012 07:05PM

FloatingVoter wrote: »

The horse (Synchronised) was making it quite clear it didn't feel like running let alone jumping. The fact that JP McManus and Tony McCoy are either too egotistical / greedy or don't understand animals enough to pull the horse from the race is relevant. BTW, I had money on two horsies myself and am not in any animal rights organisation.

McManus should become a bookie (oh look, he is) and McCoy become a "celebrity", he seems to think he is. And yes, the horse was cleared by a vet....funny vet that. Minutes away from death yet unable to diagnose a sick horse.

None of the three should be allowed in a decision making process near any animal in clear distress. Perhaps racing goldfish will be their next career move.

Wow.
Synchronised jinked before the start because his attention had been diverted by the starting tape above his head, other horses did the same thing as well. Tony McCoy was just unlucky to lose his balance and fall off. It had nothing to do with the fact that the horse "didn't feel like running".
He cantered down the course for a bit, came to a stop all by himself and a camerman came and held on to him. A vet came to check him and there were no signs that the horse was the least bit distressed. Maybe you should become a vet or a horse psychologist as you seem to profess to know a lot more than most about the inner workings of a horse's mind? :rolleyes:

Maire2009 · 14-04-2012 07:05PM

FloatingVoter wrote: »

I've seen contrary horses before. that horse was ill.

So the "egotistical, greedy" JP McManus let his Gold Cup winning horse run even though he knew the horse was ill and had a chance of dying?

Yeah, that makes sense - letting a horse run to his death that is making him a mint, seen as you are talking money.

Sunnyisland · 14-04-2012 07:05PM

Bambi wrote: »

tbh any industry that uses animals will be all about maximising their profits rather than caring about the animals welfare. It's just a bit sickening when the industry is using animals to entertain humans.

Is there not millions of pounds/euros/dollars spent on maintaining these horses ? As another poster has said they are treated very well in the there homes stables.

Born to Die · 14-04-2012 07:06PM

Carolina Disgusting Paperback wrote: »

If you think Syncronised was contrary today I doubt you have know what a contrary house is.

One with 6 bathrooms and only 2 bedrooms.

Discodog · 14-04-2012 07:07PM

Carolina Disgusting Paperback wrote: »

If you think Syncronised was contrary today I doubt you have know what a contrary house is.

But he might know what a contrary horse is

Naomi00 · 14-04-2012 07:07PM

'Cruelty' is not the right word. Those horses are treated like royalty and have better lives than a lot of people. I've been to the races a good few times and have only seen jockeys get injured, it seems to be just at big races like the Grand National where horses die. It's not the sport of horse racing that's in question, there's nothing wrong with that and the horses enjoy it. I think that races like the Grand National need to be altered though to make it safer for the horses.

Discodog · 14-04-2012 07:08PM

Maire2009 wrote: »

Yeah, that makes sense - letting a horse run to his death that is making him a mint, seen as you are talking money.

Are they not insured ?

dr.bollocko · 14-04-2012 07:09PM

MickySticks wrote: »

If anyone else wrote this they would be banned.

Disgusting, shame on you!!!

I notice how you have selectively removed my edit to this post in order to give me another bash. Did you read the rest of the thread?

Anybody else posting this would not have been banned.

This is after hours.

If you want serious business go to the horse racing forum.

I have already clarified my position in that post and on this thread and apologised.

Seeing as how I can do little else at this point beyond that lets please get back to the topic of the thread.

Optimalprimerib · 14-04-2012 07:10PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

I would rather watch two people enter an arena with shield and sword and a fight to the death happens than watch horse racing to be honest. Get the old ways back into entertainment. It is far to safe today and I honestly think back in the days of the Roman Empire, the thrill of fighting would have been greater than anything we have today.

It is just betting on horses and many of the horses don't have a clue. Boxing isn't that good now and UFC is too safe. Perhaps one event a year could happen in which convicts who are serving time for murder can battle it out and the winner of the event is released.

An event for convicts could involve horses and say 20 convicts serving murder having to run a long course and while they race to win, they are allowed to use bow and arrow to kill the other convicts.

Just make the hunger games a reality. Imagine if this was berties punishment. RTE would have no issues with dwindling ratings if it was. Anyway back on topic, I'm very saddened to hear the fate of synchronised. He had a chance to create history today instead his name will br remembered for a different reason entirely.

My name is URL · 14-04-2012 07:11PM

Naomi00 wrote: »

'Cruelty' is not the right word. Those horses are treated like royalty and have better lives than a lot of people. I've been to the races a good few times and have only seen jockeys get injured, it seems to be just at big races like the Grand National where horses die. It's not the sport of horse racing that's in question, there's nothing wrong with that and the horses enjoy it. I think that races like the Grand National need to be altered though to make it safer for the horses.

Well they're certainly looked after well once they are still turning a profit for the owners. After that though, life is not so easy for them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12682680

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/06/racehorse-slaughter-animal-welfare

Born to Die · 14-04-2012 07:11PM

Discodog wrote: »

Are they not insured ?

Isn't everything these days.

Maire2009 · 14-04-2012 07:11PM

Discodog wrote: »

Are they not insured ?

They would be I'd reckon, but anyone would hardly be suggesting someone as rich as JP McManus would let a Champion horse die to claim some insurance money?!

BlaasForRafa · 14-04-2012 07:13PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Its just a gimmick. Like having sprinkers at the side of a formula 1 track. Flat racing is the sport of kings for the best horses. Only in Ireland and the UK is jumps racing popular because the rest of the world see it as pointless. I think Ireland is the only country in the world where jumps races is preferred to the real stuff.

flat racing is boring as f**k, as are the people who like it.

RichieC · 14-04-2012 07:14PM

Really sad about Syncronised all the same. From gold cup glory to dog food in a matter of weeks.

Naomi00 · 14-04-2012 07:17PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Well they're certainly looked after well once they are still turning a profit for the owners. After that though, life is not so easy for them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12682680

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/06/racehorse-slaughter-animal-welfare

Fair point, although that's more to do with money than animal welfare. If they were abandoned or mistreated it would be a welfare issue. I'm guessing that those horses would be from trainers who don't make that much money and maybe have no other choice, I'd imagine that the ones who can afford it look after their retired horses.

Should horse racing be banned?

Comments