Infamous Islamophobe Geert Wilders funded by US Right-Wing

11-04-2012 11:12PM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Again, what are you talking about!? You are desperately trying to compare something that is real and demonstratable with something that is straight from your imagination. Your in no position to bring up dishonesty.

And I'm sure that Wilders and his crew have a bunch of articles and studies that they use to show that their claims are real and demonstrable too.
So unfortunately just because you think your claims are backed up does not differentiate your claims from the claims you are vilifying.

studiorat · 12-04-2012 08:58AM

weisses wrote: »

The only reason Wilders got 20% of the votes in the Netherlands is because of Islamophobia, and he is a master in playing the evil Islam card,

THat's over simplified to the point of idiocy. It's concern over immigration in general and the rise in nationalism across Europe. There's no middle ground party addressing those issues for people to vote for and express genuine concerns, so the extremists get the vote.

weisses wrote: »

Problem is the dodgy funding by foreign people (jewish lobby) with a certain Agenda .. Manipulating dutch and european politics this way.

Dodgy funding by foreign people!! WTF? You sound like Wilders there...

old_aussie · 12-04-2012 09:05AM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

A programme of dehumanisation of Muslims worldwide to manipulate world public opinion into not caring when Muslims are killed and ethnically cleansed from land stolen from them or when they are invaded and have their natural resources stolen.

They're doing a fine job of that themselves, no one needs to assist them.

weisses · 12-04-2012 10:52AM

studiorat wrote: »

THat's over simplified to the point of idiocy. It's concern over immigration in general and the rise in nationalism across Europe. There's no middle ground party addressing those issues for people to vote for and express genuine concerns, so the extremists get the vote.

Dodgy funding by foreign people!! WTF? You sound like Wilders there...

If you can point out to me what is wrong in my posting please do add something useful yourself instead of Accusing me of making idiot posts.. His party is acting illegally regarding the law on party funding... He thinks Islam is a retarded ideology... Without his anti Islam campaign he wouldn't have had even 1 seat in Dutch parliament

studiorat · 12-04-2012 01:56PM

weisses wrote: »

If you can point out to me what is wrong in my posting please do add something useful yourself instead of Accusing me of making idiot posts..

Read the post again. I pointed out the reasons.

weisses wrote: »

His party is acting illegally regarding the law on party funding...

What law are you talking about? The only thing dodgy about the funding is you don't like the idea that it comes from Jews it would seem.

weisses wrote: »

He thinks Islam is a retarded ideology...

Islam is a religion. Islamism is an ideology, and a retarded one at that.

weisses wrote: »

Without his anti Islam campaign he wouldn't have had even 1 seat in Dutch parliament

EU-scepticism is the is one of the main reasons for Dutch support of them. Their voters are anti-European Union and anti-immigration. They see outsiders as any sort of foreigner, be they from the Hague itself or further afield. Everyone according to them is a member of the corrupt elite. Muslims are only part of those foreigners. Just look at the reports about how they portrayed Eastern Europeans on the PVV website.

Brown Bomber · 12-04-2012 02:15PM

old_aussie wrote: »

They're doing a fine job of that themselves, no one needs to assist them.

I suspect the irony of this statement escapes you?

Brown Bomber · 12-04-2012 02:19PM

King Mob wrote: »

And I'm sure that Wilders and his crew have a bunch of articles and studies that they use to show that their claims are real and demonstrable too.
So unfortunately just because you think your claims are backed up does not differentiate your claims from the claims you are vilifying.

If you can't tell the difference between fact and fiction I'm giving up...

Brown Bomber · 12-04-2012 02:24PM

studiorat wrote: »

Dodgy funding by foreign people!! WTF? You sound like Wilders there...

I suggest you read the OP as that is exactly what has happened. You and King Mob are doing a whole lotta' talking without actually saying anything.

Tell you what, I must've named a dozen professional Islamophobes so far. Since you apparently consider Islamophobia a myth on the whole perhaps you could pick out a couple who aren't Islamophobic and/or spreading anti-Islam propoganda.

Brown Bomber · 12-04-2012 02:29PM

studiorat wrote: »

What law are you talking about? The only thing dodgy about the funding is you don't like the idea that it comes from Jews it would seem.

1. That's a pathetic strawman
2. Your wrong. Read the OP.

12-04-2012 02:46PM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

If you can't tell the difference between fact and fiction I'm giving up...

But I don't accept your biased, misrepresented and twisted evidence anymore than I accept Wilders biased, misrepresented and twisted evidence.

And even if all of his evidence met your standards, you'd still realise that him pointing out Islamic/Arabic violence does not support his claims.

But you doing the same for your villains is exempt because you have double standards. Like for instance giving out about people using strawmen and using one yourself in the same breath.

Tell you what, I must've named a dozen professional Islamophobes so far. Since you apparently consider Islamophobia a myth on the whole perhaps you could pick out a couple who aren't Islamophobic and/or spreading anti-Islam propoganda.

weisses · 12-04-2012 02:53PM

studiorat wrote: »

Read the post again. I pointed out the reasons.

And you accuse me off simplifying ???

studiorat wrote: »

What law are you talking about? The only thing dodgy about the funding is you don't like the idea that it comes from Jews it would seem.

I posted about this earlier ... did you even read the thread ? And yes there is a Law in The Netherlands about party gifts/donations ... My opinion has nothing to do with that part ...

studiorat wrote: »

Islam is a religion. Islamism is an ideology, and a retarded one at that.

I was quoting from the man himself

studiorat wrote: »

EU-scepticism is the is one of the main reasons for Dutch support of them. Their voters are anti-European Union and anti-immigration. They see outsiders as any sort of foreigner, be they from the Hague itself or further afield. Everyone according to them is a member of the corrupt elite. Muslims are only part of those foreigners. Just look at the reports about how they portrayed Eastern Europeans on the PVV website.

No sorry your wrong again ..... EU skepticism is is a PVV stance but only recently voters are taking note of that ... The PVV and their campaign (spin during is/was solely based on the Islam, People voted for him because he was against the political elite and their soft approach to mainly the Moroccan street scum as he calls them ... Now that the people are bored with that (because he achieved not much himself now) He started the ... "complain and report the polish people website.

Yes the more extreme right is/was voting for him too but that is only a small portion of his voters ... the rest will move back to the more mainstream parties again when his populist mumble dies down a bit ... unless he pules something new out of his hat. That trend is already going on ... he's down a good bit in opinion polls

weisses · 12-04-2012 03:03PM

King Mob wrote: »

But I don't accept your biased, misrepresented and twisted evidence anymore than I accept Wilders biased, misrepresented and twisted evidence.

What Evidence is Wilders providing that you don't accept ?

12-04-2012 03:06PM

weisses wrote: »

What Evidence is Wilders providing that you don't accept ?

Pretty much the same stuff that BB is providing.
Irrelevant and overblown claims of violence, out of context quotes from religious leaders and texts while also ignoring moderates, appeals to fear and shadowy conspiracy taking over...

studiorat · 12-04-2012 03:09PM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I suggest you read the OP as that is exactly what has happened. You and King Mob are doing a whole lotta' talking without actually saying anything.

Weiss tells us Wilders is breaking the law. What law? I don't see it in the OP.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Tell you what, I must've named a dozen professional Islamophobes so far. Since you apparently consider Islamophobia a myth on the whole perhaps you could pick out a couple who aren't Islamophobic and/or spreading anti-Islam propoganda.

What ? People branded Islamophobe who aren't? I could name many more than a dozen.
Christopher Hitchens,
Salman Rushdie
Bernard Henry Levi,
Ben Elton,
Ian McEwan,
Martin Amis,
Peter Tatchel.

Pick any one of them, all have been called Islamophobes.

studiorat · 12-04-2012 03:12PM

weisses wrote: »

No sorry your wrong again ..... EU skepticism is is a PVV stance but only recently voters are taking note of that ...

I think you're making this sh1t up. As recently as when? Let's have some evidence.

weisses · 12-04-2012 03:18PM

King Mob wrote: »

Pretty much the same stuff that BB is providing.
Irrelevant and overblown claims of violence, out of context quotes from religious leaders and texts while also ignoring moderates, appeals to fear and shadowy conspiracy taking over...

Was asking because I never seen him trying to proof anything (as in evidence) ... Most of it is scaremongering funded by his "american fans" ... and he is doing a good job so far

Breivik naming Wilders did him more harm then good i think

weisses · 12-04-2012 03:34PM

studiorat wrote: »

I think you're making this sh1t up. As recently as when? Let's have some evidence.

Nope dead serious

For dutch people the credit crunch wasn't really there up till now, so now the anti European spin from the PVV is taking more notice .... Before that people didn't gave a sh1t about the EU in the Netherlands

First the focus was on non western immigrants ... and now they are shifting to eastern Europeans

Like i said PVV always had this stance but only recently they are more actively promoting it so to say ... (dutch people are getting a bit tired of the same old islamophobic gospel) not saying that they don't agree with the man but he's doing feck all about it himself

And why do you think I'm making this up ?? ..Do you have any evidence I'm making sh1t up ???? I thought i was very straight forward in my posting

I take it that your not interested in that dodgy funding story anymore ??

studiorat · 12-04-2012 03:50PM

weisses wrote: »

Nope dead serious
Before that people didn't gave a sh1t about the EU in the Netherlands

Jesus wept...

So what was the 2005 European Constitution referendum all about then? :rolleyes:

weisses · 12-04-2012 04:09PM

studiorat wrote: »

Jesus wept...

So what was the 2005 European Constitution referendum all about then? :rolleyes:

Correct 63% voted

.......... 60% said no but asked why ... Many said that disagreement with the government (Balkenende 2 at the time) was also a reason to say No (just to piss them off) the referendum gave the people a stick to beat with ... Also the Trouble with this referendum was that it wasn't binding for the government

Any more questions i can help you with today ?

Brown Bomber · 12-04-2012 05:44PM

studiorat wrote: »

Weiss tells us Wilders is breaking the law. What law? I don't see it in the OP.

Let's not move the goalposts. You said:

Dodgy funding by foreign people!! WTF?

As I've already pointed out to you that is exactly what is happening in the case of Wilder's PVV.

studiorat wrote: »

What ? People branded Islamophobe who aren't? I could name many more than a dozen.
Christopher Hitchens,
Salman Rushdie
Bernard Henry Levi,
Ben Elton,
Ian McEwan,
Martin Amis,
Peter Tatchel.

Pick any one of them, all have been called Islamophobes.

I asked you to to select any of the numerous people that I'VE MENTIONED IN THIS THREAD. I haven't mentioned any of those!!!

Can you do it or are they in fact Islamophobic?

studiorat · 13-04-2012 10:11AM

weisses wrote: »

His party is acting illegally regarding the law on party funding...

Like I said what law?
Is Wilders funding illegal? or is it that you just don't like who's giving him the money?

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Can you do it or are they in fact Islamophobic?

Now who's moving the goalposts? I'm not going to defend any of those people,

I've said many times already that the charge of Islamophobia is used to avoid discussion and is exaggerated time and time again. Why doesn't that register ? I seriously can't believe you can't see this.

What you are doing is collating increased awareness of something with increased instances of it. And I'm afraid you can't tell the difference.

Brown Bomber · 13-04-2012 10:41AM

studiorat wrote: »

Now who's moving the goalposts? I'm not going to defend any of those people, .

I didn't ask you to defend anyone I asked you to pick out anyone that I've mentioned who isn't Islamophobic. Since you can't won't it's safe to assume that you do consider them Islamophobes. Which begs the question why are you trying to argue against me then?

studiorat wrote: »

I've said many times already that the charge of Islamophobia is used to avoid discussion and is exaggerated time and time again. Why doesn't that register ? I seriously can't believe you can't see this.

Is Wilders funding illegal? or is it that you just don't like who's giving him the money? .

:rolleyes:
Are you aware at how insanely hypocritical your above statement is?

weisses · 13-04-2012 10:43AM

studiorat wrote: »

Like I said what law?
Is Wilders funding illegal? or is it that you just don't like who's giving him the money

all gifts over 4500 euro need to be transparent ... When party refuse a fine of 25000 euro applies. Which the pvv is paying rather then to disclose were all the big donations are coming from ... Again nothing to do with me or what I like ... You seem to be very obsessed with making discussions personal

studiorat · 13-04-2012 02:27PM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I didn't ask you to defend anyone I asked you to pick out anyone that I've mentioned who isn't Islamophobic. Since you can't won't it's safe to assume that you do consider them Islamophobes. Which begs the question why are you trying to argue against me then?

I disagree with you because you are happy enough to ignore the evidence and equate the rising awareness with an actual rise in incidences. Furthermore I disagree because because I believe you are only too happy to use the exaggerated claims of islamophobia as a tool.

In general I'd consider the people you have mentioned to be anti-Islamist, and more importantly Pro-Israeli.
But it would seem that some people choose to equate Pro-Israeli with Islamobhobic.

According to Pipes

"It’s a mistake to blame Islam, a religion 14 centuries old, for the evil that should be ascribed to militant Islam, a totalitarian ideology less than a century old. Militant Islam is the problem, but moderate Islam is the solution."

Pipes is the only one I've paid any attention to really. It would seem that's it's all to easy to slap the Islamophobia label on him and ignore his arguments. Would you like to address his quote above? Or are you happy enough to slap a label on it and ignore him?

studiorat · 13-04-2012 02:29PM

weisses wrote: »

all gifts over 4500 euro need to be transparent ... When party refuse a fine of 25000 euro applies. Which the pvv is paying rather then to disclose were all the big donations are coming from ... Again nothing to do with me or what I like ... You seem to be very obsessed with making discussions personal

That's a proposal, not a law. Why do you keep insisting it is when you clearly know it's not?

weisses · 13-04-2012 03:11PM

studiorat wrote: »

That's a proposal, not a law. Why do you keep insisting it is when you clearly know it's not?

Nope your wrong article 18 of the Law regarding subsidizing political parties

Brown Bomber · 14-04-2012 11:57PM

studiorat wrote: »

That's a proposal, not a law. Why do you keep insisting it is when you clearly know it's not?

How does it matter if it is legal or not? Foriegn interests financing elected politicians in a seperate continent is contrary to the most fundamental principles of democracy in that it should citizens who decide public policy via elected representatives, not foriegn billionaires.

Brown Bomber · 15-04-2012 12:19AM

studiorat wrote: »

Pipes is the only one I've paid any attention to really. It would seem that's it's all to easy to slap the Islamophobia label on him and ignore his arguments. Would you like to address his quote above? Or are you happy enough to slap a label on it and ignore him?

1. I'd like to point out that you still have not singled out someone who you consider to not be Islamophobic.

2. Re the Pipes quote:

"It’s a mistake to blame Islam, a religion 14 centuries old, for the evil that should be ascribed to militant Islam, a totalitarian ideology less than a century old. Militant Islam is the problem, but moderate Islam is the solution."

What he says is reasonable. However, his cherrypicked comments need to be contextualised with an understanding of what Pipes actually means when he refers to when he talks of "Moderate Islam" and "Militant Islam".

Moderate Islam: To Pipes are Zionist Muslims who profit from the professional Islamophobia industry. They go on public debates, speaking tours and write books about Jihad, Infidels, Sharia etc and speak as insiders on Islam to non-Muslims despite not being in any way representative or having any grassroots support whatsoever of Muslims.

Militant Islam: To pipes actual moderate Islam is Militant Islam (conflated with actual militant Islam). This group includes almost all Muslim public figures/groups. For example, he compared Bin Laden to Muslim Senator Keith Ellison.

Brown Bomber · 20-04-2012 01:38AM

Muslims vulnerable to racism

Thursday, February 16, 2012

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/letters/muslims-vulnerable-to-racism-183983.html#ixzz1sXZ6wl3E

Tackling racism is an extremely complex issue.
It is not always simply a case of whether the crime was racist ‘yes’ or ‘no’ but can include multifarious reasons why one was targeted, including skin colour, religion, gender and migrant status. These operate at times in isolation but are sometimes intersect. Religion is one area where discrimination and racist crime can meet, making those most clearly associated with a given faith a higher likelihood of being targeted. This is true of Sikhs, Jews and Muslims to name just three.

The approximately 23m Muslims in Europe are particularly vulnerable to racism aka Islamophobia: a form of racism that operates on negative stereotypical imagery of Muslims and Islam. This is the result of historical prejudices, the so-called ‘war on terror’ and State policies that single out Muslims as a security threat. Ireland is no different as on-going research on Islamophobia in Ireland is revealing.

There are currently at least 35 nationalities in Muslim communities in Ireland. These nationalities include people of different skin colours, nationalities. What seems to be common to Irish Muslims who have experienced Islamophobia at this stage of the research is that it is those who are most identifiably Muslim: women who veil, men who wear the full beard and/or clothes associated with predominantly Muslim countries that are experiencing the phenomena most.

The Irish State needs to recognise that Islamophobia is a specific form of racism that requires urgent attention. Institutional racism can be an unintentional ‘hangover’ from the days before Ireland had such a diverse society. Indeed, the Gardaí Racial Intercultural and Diversity Office has made great efforts to address and accommodate multi-cultural Ireland. At local level, particular Garda initiatives in Cork and Kilkenny come to mind. However, some problematic areas of policy and practice remain: including how racism is recorded by the gardaí encountering a report of a racist crime.

Islamophobia as a specific form of racism is not systematically recorded. This needs to change if Ireland is to ensure that those of all faiths and none can feel safe practicing their religion.

Anyone with an interest in my ongoing study on Islamophobia in Ireland study can email me at james.carr@ul.ie. The study is based in the Department of Sociology in the University of Limerick and funded by a scholarship from the Irish Research Council for the Humanities and Social Sciences.

James Carr
Department of Sociology
University of Limerick

Brown Bomber · 24-04-2012 01:21AM

studiorat wrote: »

Pipes is the only one I've paid any attention to really. It would seem that's it's all to easy to slap the Islamophobia label on him and ignore his arguments. Would you like to address his quote above? Or are you happy enough to slap a label on it and ignore him?

Were you paying attention to Pipes' anti-Arab propaganda last week?

Daniel Pipes' attack on Israeli Arabs is baseless and inflammatory

Pipes has written an aggressive and confused jumble of half-truths and misunderstandings about the Arabs citizens of Israel in an article published in the Washington Times.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/daniel-pipes-attack-on-israeli-arabs-is-baseless-and-inflammatory-1.423718

Infamous Islamophobe Geert Wilders funded by US Right-Wing

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