Defend BMWs

Blazer wrote: »

Can't see how people class BMWs as uncomfortable and apply it across their whole range.
I had a 05 primera which I bought brand new at the time and I thought it was miles better than my previous 98 megane and far more comfortable.
I often used to borrow the old fellas 97 hiace to move stuff and it would a relief to get back into the primera afterwards...

until I bought a 07 520D (full leather)...difference is comfort was unbelievable..
normally I borrowed the old fella's van to do favours for a mate but after the last time I swore never again...I couldn't wait to get back into the car and swore to him that never again would I drive the van or even to ask me to.
The difference was light years apart.

Have I read that right, we talking about comfort and your arguement is that your 520d is more comfortable then a Hi-ace?

Marlow wrote: »

The question is, what are you comparing it to ? As a mechanic you only see the ones that are broken or need service. Not the ones, that have no problems. More facts, less pub talk.

The way I gauge this is the amount of non service items that fail versus other marques.

BMW's, and the Germans brands in general, suffer many more failures of things like, rads, PS pumps, electrical items, etc etc then other, often much cheaper, brands.

It comes down to what people define a better built. For many people, with the likes of BMW, its soft touch materials, not having to decide for yourself if you need your lights or wipers on, being able to adjust how long your lights stay on after you exit the car, but for others, a better built car still has all its original non service parts in place and functioning correctly after 10 or more years.

My view, If a 15 year old micra/yaris or whatever can be driving around with its original mechanical parts still operating properly while often 50k plus BMW's are having these items fail at well under 10 years old.....then the Micra is better built. Of course when you consider, the equipment, handling, power etc etc then the BMW is a better car overall.

Its undeniable, though, that BMW trade as much on their badge as on their cars actual abilities(perceived or otherwise). On their own training courses they will tell you that they are able to mark up their prices based solely on the fact that they are BMW so people will still aspire to own one pay regardless.

Are BMW the best cars you can buy?.....debatable, but there is no question that they have the best marketing in the world and that's enough to convince most people IMO.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the thing with perceived higher reliability in Japanese cars (your micra, yaris or whatever) is that its like designing computers for the space shuttle

BMW gave you parking sensors, GPS navigation, computer controlled suspension, car phones, climate control etc... in the 90s, features that are only rearing their heads on cars from japan now. Japanese cars are built like the space shuttle, wait 10-15 years, see how a technology pans out and develops, then throw it into a car. The benefit of learning from a pioneering manufacturer (like BMW) and waiting for all the issues to be ironed out.

If you look at features in the new 6 series say , with following cruise control, soft close doors, corner view cameras, all sorts of fancy gearbox and suspension modes. These things will probably take till 2025 to appear in the avensis (or whatever its called then), theyll cause less if any trouble, but reliability is unfortunatly the price you pay to have the latest technology.

The 'Japanese' cars we get here are very different to the actual Japanese cars sold in Japan. Everything you could ever get on high end German marks was available on high end Japanese cars at the same time, they just weren't sold here unfortunately.

The corner view camera's, to pick an example you site from the new 6 series, where fitted to my 2006 Nissan Skyline, a model which came out in 2003. Auto close doors/soft close doors have been used on Japanese taxi's for the last 20 years.

Matt Simis wrote: »

I think the point is a fair one, from a reliability perspective, comparing a tech laden, more powerful and larger BMW driven harder to a Micra, which largely is little more than seats in a shell and a radio is an unfair and lopsided comparison. A Primera or even Camry could slot in there too, the limited scope is the same.

The car with more "in it" will unquestionably have more failures. A more apples to apples comparison would be between a 330i and Toyota Supra (maybe M3 vs Supra TT).



I would say VW/VAG have the best marketing team in the car world.

The problem is that its often the basic components and systems, the ones that all cars have regardless of price, that tend to fail more often on German marques then others.