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Overflow pipe for condensate drain.
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Without sounding like a miserable basturd:eek: but some manufactures require a larger diameter pipe to feed the condensate pipe from the boiler in to, creating a air gap to prevent condensate backing up and filling the combustion chamber, only a problem if it happens and there would be no warranty cover as the damage is quite bad, PCB, gas valve, fan, insulation commonly would require replacing.
Prmarily, Im trying to make it easier for when someone installs a new boiler, in that the condensate drain is in place, (edit and for me, so nothing needs ripping out or can only be done where it looks unsightly)
From the black bolded
Are you saying that some manufacturers require a larger diameter pipe to feed the 22mm condensate drain which would be connected into say a dishwasher/sink drain
or
are you saying that a larger diameter pipe is needed all the way to the point it is connected to the dishwasher/sink drain.
I'm assuming you are saying the first? in which case I could still fit a 22mm pipe and they could feed into it with whatever diameter is required by the boiler instructions. (there is the issue if the rgi in question at the time would think this is acceptable)
From the red bolded part
At this stage Im more curious than anything,one , sounds like youare saying that adding a larger diameter pipe is like adding an air gap that acts to prevent it siphoning condensate back up to the boiler
and also
how could condensate back up that much even without it ? I've read a lot of condensate can be produced (edit under the correct conditions, ie that allow condensing to occur), but surely the boiler would switch itself off if the condensate didnt drain? but why would it not drain?
trying to think why condensate wouldn't drain, if the drain was clear, if its connected to a washing machine/dishwasher drain it seems less likely that the drain will be blocked, maybe a sink drain could have food waste, but other than that I'm curious as to what could cause condensate to fail to drain? maybe someone jamming a load of potato peels down the sink???
Also the damage you suggest sounds catastrophic
How does that damage the PCB,insulation,gas valve and fan??, sounds like a boiler self destructing/blowing up or being driven over with a bulldozer, while I think nothing is impossible, it sounds a bit unlikely, when I'd have hazarded a guess it would have switched itself off by that stage?
edit I can see you replied about a plug not removed while I was writing this, but that seems like an exceptional event rather than a common, I'd hope to go for a boiler that has the PCB somewhat protected from water draining down over this, I'm suprised that I've heard this before (my Mothers gas boiler leaked over the PCB) and that some kind of PCB protection isnt standard??0 -
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yes there is, it's called a air gap;)
They are, you only have to fit them properly, it's easy.
What occurred was the installer didn't read the book that came with coloured pictures
They will burn gas, if you cover half a burner it will still burn, the flame picture will be brutal but it will stay alight.
Right, I'm off to bed now or I'll be more grumpy than usuall tomorrow
fair enough, hit the hay myself, my knowledge of the subject has increased and i find it interesting enough anyway, as per which fault occured first, i suppose that is common across a lot of situations, RTFM
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Call me old fashioned but a S-plan is a S-plan and I couldn't use a relay unless I had no other choice.
Admittedly I was lucky as working in London everything was S,Y or W plan, the switchable fused spur was in arms lenth of the boiler and there always was a 3a fuse fitted:) and I would have to wire a system the same. Personally I find the wiring standards here can be bad (which is a pet hate of mine), things are getting better but it has to be plumber/installer led.
I'd like to see more plumbers wiring their own heating systems and taking a steps towards being heating engineers which would include a uniform wiring design, ripping out all the cack and starting again, if we don't set the standard then it will always be cack.
No disrespect to sparks as some of my best friends are sparks, but heating engineers should be wiring heating systems, then I'd see less 7 foot room stats, stats above rads, beside the front door, boilers with no interlocks, boilers with no earths, boilers with no perminant lives and my all time favourite a roomstat a inch over a toaster:pac:
Ok, well I'm replying out of interest not need at this stage as some of what you are saying is outside my realm of experience even though a lot of it seems to make sense re standardised wiring.
But can I ask you what you mean by a 7 foot room stat? do you mean at 7 foot?? all the rest re stats makes sense to me, I'm suprised anyone would put a stat near any device or in any place where it will be adversely affected by a local heat source, the idea of anything without an earth concerns me, I'm not in your business so Im interested to know what kind of interlock a boiler could have? do you mean something to shut off the gas flow in the event of a power failure that fail to a safe position? I'd assume something like that would be integral to a modern boiler? or is it something else?
As I've said, Im asking out of pure curiosity as the things you mention are similar to stuff i've come across in jobs I worked in.
In case you suspect I may try fit my own boiler, I've no intention, and while I wouldn't say I plan to grill an RGI that I'd employ to do an install, I want to be involved in the process and intend to ask plenty of questions before work begins to ensure I feel they understand what they are talking about and my requirements are tailored to the instal to suit my longterm heating needs.
as an example, I plan to ask about external temperature compensation, I've read recently about boilers that do this, so they can then alter their output so they are operating at optimal efficiency at different times of the year/for different temp conditions.0 -
Yep:)do you mean at 7 foot??I'm suprised anyone would put a stat near any device or in any place where it will be adversely affected by a local heat source,
Fitting a roomstat isn't rocket science but on large sites i tend to find badly positioned roomstats which get roomstats a bad name, I would have often identified these faults at the building stage but nobody cared:(interested to know what kind of interlock a boiler could have?
The idea of a boiler interlock is to save you money, a room stat should turn off your boiler once that zone/room has achieved temperture, this is done by fitting the right components wired correctly and it works very well, done badly it can cost you money by wasting fuel or have a detrimental effect on the boiler.
That's good, but i'v stopped worrying about it as I see it as natural selection;), many years ago a DIY fanatic on my patch decided he wanted 100% efficiency from his gas fire, so he thought long and hard about it, he decided to disconnect the gas supply to the fire in the frontroom attach a heatproof rubber hose which he then attached to a small lenth of cooper pipe, he placed the pipe pointing upwards wedged tightly between a few house bricks, he then placed a lit taper at the copper outlet turned on the gas and sat down to watch the telly. It was a lovely flame, a bit yellow by the time he was found as there was a lack of oxygen in the room but I can't argue with the efficiency he achieved:D.In case you suspect I may try fit my own boiler, I've no intentionas an example, I plan to ask about external temperature compensation, I've read recently about boilers that do this, so they can then alter their output so they are operating at optimal efficiency at different times of the year/for different temp conditions.
If you fit a outdoor sensor that reduces flow temperture you have to take into account the impact it will have on your hot water, slow reheat times, legionnaires.
I like the two pipe system Viessmann do with hot water priority but will send 80c to the coil giving great reheat times and the rad temperture can have a outdoor sensor giving you low rad tempertures and a boiler condensing for longer.0 -
If you fit a outdoor sensor that reduces flow temperture you have to take into account the impact it will have on your hot water, slow reheat times, legionnaires.
I like the two pipe system Viessmann do with hot water priority but will send 80c to the coil giving great reheat times and the rad temperture can have a outdoor sensor giving you low rad tempertures and a boiler condensing for longer.
I should say, I'd really be relying on them to tell me what in their experience works rather than suggesting I would just be grilling them, but from what I have heard, Viessman, Ariston and bosch are options to look at.
but
I'd be after efficiency across different operating conditions and something that is tried and tested with a good track record of reliability but also access to spares (preferably at a reasonable price). In a nutshell I really need to research a range of boilers, but I want the right size fitted, ie ability to produce heat is matched to the demand so not too big/too small.
When my mother got hers done (years ago) the guy doing just said ah sure stick in the biggest capacity, I think the boiler capacity to produce heat is too large, Id rather it was smaller running continuously at its optimum performance than switching on and off, having said that neither hers or mine are condensing boilers so it probably doesnt make that much difference now, but any condensing boiler i may get, id prefer it was as small as possible, but still meet the demand so it can meet its peak efficiency more of the time.
I just dont think most people think of any of this when they get a boiler.
Im sure the thread has thoroughly cooked and incinerated the subject by now 0 -
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