Michael Lowry's popularity

Going Forward · 08-04-2012 10:47PM #1

Is Lowry's popularity an indictment of the inefficiencies within the public service?

Unless he is constantly breaking and bending rules in getting preferential treatment for his constituents, is he not simply getting matters sorted efficiently for them, something which the various public services should be capable of?

Is it naive to think that politicians can only give their constituents precisely what they are legally entitled to in the way of government/state services?

kippy · 08-04-2012 10:48PM

Going Forward wrote: »

Is Lowry's popularity an indictment of the inefficiencies within the public service?

Now that is a leap of logic.

To answer, no.

Dob74 · 08-04-2012 10:56PM

Why is he meeting his olde FG buddies behind closed doors?
Surely all discussions should take place in the Dail out in the open.
Our public representitives like to meet someone with a dodgy past in private?WTF

Public service does things slow almost to help politicians like Lowry to pull strokes for them. The powers that be wouldnt have it any other way.

Going Forward · 08-04-2012 11:02PM

kippy wrote: »

Now that is a leap of logic.

To answer, no.

Whats his recipe for success then?

kippy · 08-04-2012 11:16PM

Going Forward wrote: »

Whats his recipe for success then?

Idiotic voters.
It's a big problem in this country.

thebman · 08-04-2012 11:56PM

kippy wrote: »

Idiotic voters.
It's a big problem in this country.

Voters aren't idiots. Unfortunately people like to assume this to avoid any discussion of the actual problems in our society.

kippy · 09-04-2012 12:02AM

thebman wrote: »

Voters aren't idiots. Unfortunately people like to assume this to avoid any discussion of the actual problems in our society.

A large portion of them are.

n97 mini · 09-04-2012 12:17AM

It's parish pump politics at its worst.

John O'Donoghue would get re-elected too. He sanctioned more than €5m for his pet swimming pool project in Killarney in 2006 -- despite several question marks raised over the viability of a leisure complex in a tourist town that already had 15 swimming pools. One year after it opened, the Killarney swimming pool and leisure complex was no longer viable and its operators pulled out.

Just like Jackie Healy-Rae got a by-pass and a hospital for every town in Kerry from Bertie. He'd get re-elected too (Jackie Healy-Rae that is).

Meanwhile my constituency has no hospital or swimming pool yet one company alone here is contributing about 9% of GDP.

mikemac1 · 09-04-2012 02:07AM

He's not bringing home the bacon at the moment
Almost as invisible as Coonan from Roscrea who does nothing, nothing at all

The new man is Alan Kelly

Our new train service, leisure centre, road improvements and bridge by Ballina. Almost half a million for the CBS school
They've been talking about that bridge across the Shannon for over a decade :rolleyes:. Nobody will believe it until it is built.

But that doesn't mean everyone in Tipp North thinks the same
The good people of Roscrea hate the Nenagh based Minister :eek:

“Nenagh won and we lost”, one woman claimed in reference to news that extra staff and beds are being provided at St Conlon’s Community Nursing Unit in Minister Kelly’s Nenagh base.

It's Tipp so you have to bring in the hurling

Cllr Hogan also took issue with the announcement of extra beds for Nenagh, and criticised pictures of Minister Kelly wearing a Tipperary hurling jersey on his website.
“He should have worn a Nenagh jersey, because that’s all he cares about”, Cllr Hogan told the meeting.

http://www.nenaghguardian.ie/news-detail.php?article=11VZNN

There are enough votes around Thurles to send forward a TD and Team Lowry have that area sown up

I didn't invent Team Lowry, sure it's on his own website
http://www.michaellowry.ie/lowry-team/

Nenagh and Roscrea have their own TD's, there is a strong Thurles base and he'll get some more support throughout the county.
Lowry will be stepping down next election and then you can judge what happens next, is it someone fresh and new or is it someone he handpicks.

Looking at this thread you'd think the entire area supported Lowry.
Look a bit deeper, it's a big area. Far bigger then the Dublin and Cork constituencies.

As for the Galwegian calling the voters idiots, look to your own; Frank "twenty houses" Fahy.

murphaph · 09-04-2012 08:38AM

mikemac1 wrote: »

He's not bringing home the bacon at the moment
Almost as invisible as Coonan from Roscrea who does nothing, nothing at all

The new man is Alan Kelly
Our new train service, leisure centre, road improvements and bridge by Ballina. Almost half a million for the CBS school
They've been talking about that bridge across the Shannon for over a decade :rolleyes:. Nobody will believe it until it is built.

But that doesn't mean everyone in Tipp North thinks the same
The good people of Roscrea hate the Nenagh based Minister :eek:

It's Tipp so you have to bring in the hurling

http://www.nenaghguardian.ie/news-detail.php?article=11VZNN

There are enough votes around Thurles to send forward a TD and Team Lowry have that area sown up

I didn't invent Team Lowry, sure it's on his own website
http://www.michaellowry.ie/lowry-team/

Nenagh and Roscrea have their own TD's, there is a strong Thurles base and he'll get some more support throughout the county.
Lowry will be stepping down next election and then you can judge what happens next, is it someone fresh and new or is it someone he handpicks.

Looking at this thread you'd think the entire area supported Lowry.
Look a bit deeper, it's a big area. Far bigger then the Dublin and Cork constituencies.

As for the Galwegian calling the voters idiots, look to your own; Frank "twenty houses" Fahy.

This whole post sums up what is deeply wrong with the Irish political system and the electorate that vote in it.

The Irish electorate are incredibly parochial. My town, my parish bullsh!t comes waaay ahead of the national interest. Our electorate is in general ignorant in the extreme.

The likes of Lowry and Fahy simply don't get elected in the UK/Germany/Netherlands etc. Possibly they get elected in southern Italy. What do we want to be as a country? A southern Italy or a Germany/UK?

I want more for my country than parish pump politics but you have it in Ireland even in the cities-stupid northside/southside divisions and so on. Not as bad as the rural voters but still there.

doomed · 09-04-2012 09:07AM

Before we head off on the "look what the thick peasants of North Tipp voted for" trail, it is worth remembering that Charlie's Haughey's corruption was well known when we elected him Taoiseach and gave him huge votes in his Dublin constituency. Liam Lawlor and Ray Burke also got elected without the benefit of any reputation for honesty. And did we actually learn much from Mahon about Bertie that we didn't know when we made him Taoiseach the last time?

Maybe it is something to do with being a former colony but we almost see pulling strokes and a bit of brown envelope activity as an act of rebellion against authority, forgetting of course that the victim is now ourselves and the integrity of our State.

Because we have a PR system we think we have a sophisticated electorate. We don't. We just have a complicated process for putting unsuitable people into a national parliament.

We are also not the only country where you have politicians who pride themselves of being a constituency man first and foremost. They have these in other countries and they have a name for them. They call them "local councillors".

doomed · 09-04-2012 09:12AM

Going Forward wrote: »

Is Lowry's popularity an indictment of the inefficiencies within the public service?

You should get that checked out. I am sure there are tablets

n97 mini · 09-04-2012 03:15PM

murphaph wrote: »

What do we want to be as a country? A southern Italy or a Germany/UK?

Feck that!

I want a big house in the country, a BMW, a very small school for my kids, a hospital, a swimming pool and a bypass. I'd also want a bus route and a train station. When my daughter finishes school I want a local job for her teaching or in the ESB, earning enough to buy her own BMW. And I'm going to give her a site to build a big house on, so she won't have to pay stamp duty. And I want the council to connect my house to the mains sewerage, I don't care what the cost, cos I aint paying no septic tank tax.

M cebee · 09-04-2012 03:19PM

it's an indictment of the voters alright

they we/they re-elect a crook like him

what service did he do the country giving away a valuable license?

would never happen in the uk,he'd be out on his ear

mikemac1 · 09-04-2012 03:25PM

murphaph wrote: »

I want more for my country than parish pump politics but you have it in Ireland even in the cities-stupid northside/southside divisions and so on. Not as bad as the rural voters but still there.

At least rural divisions are set

In your own area Lawlor was able to turn Clondalkin into Lucan

Not as bad as rural voters?

murphaph · 09-04-2012 03:55PM

mikemac1 wrote: »

At least rural divisions are set

In your own area Lawlor was able to turn Clondalkin into Lucan

Not as bad as rural voters?

Lawlor was not re-elected after any shenanigans of his became public knowledge of course. Anyway, I clearly stated that stupid divisions exist in urban Ireland too, but it's telling that you immediately and exclusively focused on the least relevant part of my whole post and made a "rural v urban" issue out of it!!

Do you agree that Irish voters in general focus far too much on local issues at the expense of the national good?

D1stant · 09-04-2012 04:10PM

Dob74 wrote: »

Why is he meeting his olde FG buddies behind closed doors?
Surely all discussions should take place in the Dail out in the open.
Our public representitives like to meet someone with a dodgy past in private?WTF

Public service does things slow almost to help politicians like Lowry to pull strokes for them. The powers that be wouldnt have it any other way.

All politics is done behind closed doors. The Dail is the after event party. The Whip system ensures that. If our public reps were barred from meeting people with dodgy pasts well.... they would have very few people to meet

p.s. For the record - Lowry is a cunt

Sponge Bob · 09-04-2012 05:05PM

Look at his tweets 2200 "following"

https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=michael_lowry

"Looking forward to the opening of Jimmy Doyle Rd later today.Road will be of huge benefit to the town of Thurles."

goose2005 · 09-04-2012 05:30PM

Going Forward wrote: »

Unless he is constantly breaking and bending rules in getting preferential treatment for his constituents, is he not simply getting matters sorted efficiently for them, something which the various public services should be capable of?

Not really, he's actually clogging up state bureaucracy with endless TD's letters that have to be dealt with, as do the other 165. Stuff like this is one of the main source of re-election votes, so what incentive is there to actually improve services if politicians can profit from badly-run services?

fly_agaric · 09-04-2012 08:29PM

Going Forward wrote: »

Is Lowry's popularity an indictment of the inefficiencies within the public service?

Yes. Ireland's crappy weather is also an "indictment of the inefficiencies within the public service" ( the Teagasc Weather Control Project has not delivered the goods despite all the Tax-Payers money spent on it!:mad:).

nursextreme · 10-04-2012 06:59AM

mikemac1 wrote: »

He's not bringing home the bacon at the moment
Almost as invisible as Coonan from Roscrea who does nothing, nothing at all

The new man is Alan Kelly
Our new train service, leisure centre, road improvements and bridge by Ballina. Almost half a million for the CBS school
They've been talking about that bridge across the Shannon for over a decade :rolleyes:. Nobody will believe it until it is built.

But that doesn't mean everyone in Tipp North thinks the same
The good people of Roscrea hate the Nenagh based Minister :eek:

I think they are all bloody useless to be honest, none of them seem to look at the constituency as a whole, we would be better off with just one TD in North Tipp instead of the 3 who put all there efforts into securing votes for reelection as opposed to tackling the constituency wide issues. Where is the job creation! Unemployment is rife accross the constituency as is immigration. Health Service has moved to Limerick, Mental Health Service is amalgamating with Limerick and Clare with North Tipp being the biggest loser in that deal. Most of the infrastrustural improvement at least will make it easier for people to get away from North Tipp as they seek healthcare and jobs else where. At least that new cycle path from Nenagh to Limerick will make it easier to cycle to A and E in Limerick when you get turned away from Nenagh Hospital then you will be able to relax on a trolly for 48 hours and get your breath back.

later12 · 10-04-2012 11:39AM

Going Forward wrote: »

Is Lowry's popularity an indictment of the inefficiencies within the public service?

Lowry was a popular minister and member of government, and quite aside from his political contacts, he has contacts throughout the civil service.

This allows him favour on two areas
(1) Announcing government decisions affecting Tipperary North before they are even announced by Government. This was particularly notable when Tipperary North had Fianna Fail (government) TDs, and Lowry would beat them to the Nenagh Guardian newsdesk, making announcements of government decisions as though he was behind them.
(2) It wasn't all PR stunts. Sometimes, Lowry really was (is?) influential in administrative decisions. As well as being well informed, Lowry is often well placed to lobby those within the civil service, and those in politics.

I don't blame the people of North Tipperary one dot for voting for Lowry. He is an achiever for local services. Far from being the cradle of parochialism, North Tipperary voters did not come down in the last shower. They know that as it stands, they have to compete with parochial TDs in every other constituency in the country.

Under our electoral system, which has no tangible, direct input into a government's formation, and which elects an awful lot of nobodies with a lot of time on their hands, that's just the system the voter is handed. That's what the voter has to work with in North Tipperary and in every other constituency in the country.

liammur · 10-04-2012 02:57PM

n97 mini wrote: »

It's parish pump politics at its worst.

John O'Donoghue would get re-elected too. He sanctioned more than €5m for his pet swimming pool project in Killarney in 2006 -- despite several question marks raised over the viability of a leisure complex in a tourist town that already had 15 swimming pools. One year after it opened, the Killarney swimming pool and leisure complex was no longer viable and its operators pulled out.

Just like Jackie Healy-Rae got a by-pass and a hospital for every town in Kerry from Bertie. He'd get re-elected too (Jackie Healy-Rae that is).

Meanwhile my constituency has no hospital or swimming pool yet one company alone here is contributing about 9% of GDP.

Exactly. And even that company being located in your constituency was parish pump politics. Some politician probably pulled a few strokes to get in there and was deemed a hero.

n97 mini · 10-04-2012 03:59PM

liammur wrote: »

And even that company being located in your constituency was parish pump politics. Some politician probably pulled a few strokes to get in there and was deemed a hero.

That's a good point. I must look into it, and see who was in govt at the time, and who the local TDs were. (Although we're fairly urban here)

I always assumed the location was suitable because not long afterwards another massive one located down the road from the first one.

liammur · 10-04-2012 06:20PM

n97 mini wrote: »

That's a good point. I must look into it, and see who was in govt at the time, and who the local TDs were. (Although we're fairly urban here)

I always assumed the location was suitable because not long afterwards another massive one located down the road from the first one.

If you look at Galway at the moment, they are getting in a load of multinationals like SAP/IBM/Boston Scientific/HP. Companies get extra tax breaks for going there as they qualify for grants under the BMW scheme. As a consequence, Limerick 60 miles down has hardly got a company in despite massive job losses.
End result: 1 city booming, 1 city on the verge of shutdown. The Irish way of running a country.

n97 mini · 10-04-2012 10:49PM

liammur wrote: »

If you look at Galway at the moment, they are getting in a load of multinationals like SAP/IBM/Boston Scientific/HP. Companies get extra tax breaks for going there as they qualify for grants under the BMW scheme.

We don't even get the same relief here under the BES as the rest of the country does, as apparently we're alright for jobs.

The current "assisted" areas are all areas of Ireland excluding Dublin, Meath, Kildare and Wicklow (and with effect from 2009, Cork city and county (except for Cork Docklands).

liammur wrote: »

As a consequence, Limerick 60 miles down has hardly got a company in despite massive job losses.
End result: 1 city booming, 1 city on the verge of shutdown. The Irish way of running a country.

That's a good point too, and I remember discussing with someone recently that I would introduce a zero-rated corporation tax rate for Limerick and Waterford, and hold it in place until both cities were up to the national employment average. Companies that set up during that period would be zero rated indefinitely.

liammur · 11-04-2012 09:47AM

n97 mini wrote: »

We don't even get the same relief here under the BES as the rest of the country does, as apparently we're alright for jobs.

That's a good point too, and I remember discussing with someone recently that I would introduce a zero-rated corporation tax rate for Limerick and Waterford, and hold it in place until both cities were up to the national employment average. Companies that set up during that period would be zero rated indefinitely.

And that's exactly the problem with our political system summed up in a nutshell.
You would look at the problem from a national level. But our parish pump system means it's looked at constituency by constituency. And this is why Lowry is so popular in the Tipperary, if he didn't do anything, the government would literally let the place fall down.
Some people get a little confused with the term 'parish pump' because they take it literally and think it has to be some parish in a rural place, but it refers to any and every constituency.

n97 mini · 11-04-2012 11:01AM

liammur wrote: »

And this is why Lowry is so popular in the Tipperary, if he didn't do anything, the government would literally let the place fall down.
Some people get a little confused with the term 'parish pump' because they take it literally and think it has to be some parish in a rural place, but it refers to any and every constituency.

I think people see some constituencies getting maybe a bigger slice of the pie than they should, and the fact that most obvious of these are "down the country" leads people to use the parish pump metaphor. Lowry, Healy Rae, John O'Donoghue, Pee Flynn, but also Tony Gregory.

liammur · 11-04-2012 11:14AM

n97 mini wrote: »

I think people see some constituencies getting maybe a bigger slice of the pie than they should, and the fact that most obvious of these are "down the country" leads people to use the parish pump metaphor. Lowry, Healy Rae, John O'Donoghue, Pee Flynn, but also Tony Gregory.

But the same people won't see any problem if their constituency gets a bigger slice of the pie than it should. Indeed, they'd probably say, 'we've good politicians here, they're looking after us'

john reilly · 11-04-2012 11:15AM

n97 mini wrote: »

Feck that!

I want a big house in the country, a BMW, a very small school for my kids, a hospital, a swimming pool and a bypass. I'd also want a bus route and a train station. When my daughter finishes school I want a local job for her teaching or in the ESB, earning enough to buy her own BMW. And I'm going to give her a site to build a big house on, so she won't have to pay stamp duty. And I want the council to connect my house to the mains sewerage, I don't care what the cost, cos I aint paying no septic tank tax.

could this be anymore wrong. you do know there is no mains sewerage in the country. there is no bus or train stations and the only bmws are kanckers from dublin casing houses to rob

john reilly · 11-04-2012 11:18AM

murphaph wrote: »

This whole post sums up what is deeply wrong with the Irish political system and the electorate that vote in it.

The Irish electorate are incredibly parochial. My town, my parish bullsh!t comes waaay ahead of the national interest. Our electorate is in general ignorant in the extreme.

The likes of Lowry and Fahy simply don't get elected in the UK/Germany/Netherlands etc. Possibly they get elected in southern Italy. What do we want to be as a country? A southern Italy or a Germany/UK?

I want more for my country than parish pump politics but you have it in Ireland even in the cities-stupid northside/southside divisions and so on. Not as bad as the rural voters but still there.

cant see lowry standing in any of these countries, i dont even know if he speaks a foreign language. but this post smacks of stupid ***** from the country dont know what theyre doing, why dont we restrict the vote in general elections to city folk on account of how much they contribute to are country

Michael Lowry's popularity

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