Do we now have an armed Police force?

ardinn · 07-04-2012 03:39PM #1

Big drugs hauls all over the place over the weekend but I have never seen so many Armed Response Units around the place.

Checkpoints around my area have had only ASU'S for the last 3 days and every 2nd guarda vehicle I see is an ASU.

Is it safe to say we might as well have an armed police force, these vehicles over the last few months, from what I see, Outnumber the general squad car by a long shot.

Why dont they just arm the guards anyway? Would you be opposed to it? Do you notice the increased armed garda presence in your area?

The Snipe · 07-04-2012 03:41PM

Well, I think one in every number of guards needs to be trained in firearms, so we may aswell!

Mickeroo · 07-04-2012 03:42PM

Big difference between armed response units going about their business and the everyday garda on the street packing heat imho.

44leto · 07-04-2012 04:43PM

Yeah we do, Judge Dread types who have a brief to shoot scumbags for scumbaggery, on site, no need for long judicial processes.

minidazzler · 07-04-2012 04:49PM

The Snipe wrote: »

Well, I think one in every number of guards needs to be trained in firearms, so we may aswell!

They should ALL be trained in firearms, but they should not all carry firearms. They should be trained just so they can all make a weapon safe if they seize one or find one. And so they can tell the difference between an Airsoft gun and a real firearm.

hondasam · 07-04-2012 04:49PM

Some of them can't be trusted with pepper spray, no way would I like to see them all carrying guns.

Grayson · 07-04-2012 05:01PM

Mickeroo wrote: »

Big difference between armed response units going about their business and the everyday garda on the street packing heat imho.

Yep. Criminals like bank robbers might carry guns. But regular muggers don't. If regular cops had guns, we'd see more guns amongst "ordinary" criminals.

drdeadlift · 07-04-2012 05:18PM

We cant trust them with guns!!!! should they be officers of the law then?? who recruited the gangly arm idiot

drdeadlift · 07-04-2012 05:21PM

Grayson wrote: »

Yep. Criminals like bank robbers might carry guns. But regular muggers don't. If regular cops had guns, we'd see more guns amongst "ordinary" criminals.

Then the ordinary criminal would no longer be an ordinary criminal.
Jim that robs the newsagent isnt going to exchange his hammer for a gun just because the local copper has one,he only wants the till no a big gun fight.

izeult · 07-04-2012 10:58PM

There have always been armed guards, my dad was one - special branch and he was armed. I guess now they're just a lot more visible than they used to be before.

Potential-Monke · 08-04-2012 12:08AM

There is a new RSU (Regional Support Unit) for the Tipp/Waterford/Carlow/Kilkenny Divisions, so that's why you've seen them more often. But they can only carry out certain checkpoints, and respond to certain calls (ie: they can't be sent to "normal" calls, only ones which involve firearms or major financial institutes.

And to train every Garda to handle or make-safe firearms would cost an arm and a leg, as they would require minimum 2 days per year on the range to stay trained.

I don't think they should have guns, but definitely tazers.

kincsem · 08-04-2012 12:15AM

I don't even know what an ASU is.

Pottler · 08-04-2012 12:40AM

kincsem wrote: »

I don't even know what an ASU is.

its like a posh version of a tracker mortgage.

xflyer · 08-04-2012 12:44AM

Yes we do, have you seen the those guys driving around in the Volvos? But it's way past time the standard Garda carries a gun as standard.

The criminals carry guns. Just how many dead policeman do we need before common sense rules?

Amirani · 08-04-2012 12:49AM

xflyer wrote: »

Yes we do, have you seen the those guys driving around in the Volvos? But it's way past time the standard Garda carries a gun as standard.

The criminals carry guns. Just how many dead policeman do we need before common sense rules?

How many dead policemen have we had? Would that number really be less if they had guns?

Del2005 · 08-04-2012 12:50AM

Don't worry they are planning on reducing the amount of armed Gardaí. There's a thread in Emergency Services,can't link as on phone.

WolfgangWeisen · 08-04-2012 12:55AM

The last statistic I heard with regards to armed Gardai was that there are currently 1,500 detectives licensed to carry a gun in the Republic of Ireland.

Sure there's more armed Sinn Fein members in the republic than that

Witcher · 08-04-2012 12:55AM

I'm not sure there is a need for every member to be armed, though Gardai on motorbikes should probably be be armed, they're on their own and are often the first to arrive at a scene because of their vehicle.

The cost of training and then equipping every Garda with a firearm pretty much cans the idea given the current financial situation, plus how many Gardai joined up because it's an unarmed force and wouldn't draw a gun in a tough situation because of that, those people would be a liability with a firearm.

Larianne · 08-04-2012 12:55AM

kincsem wrote: »

I don't even know what an ASU is.

Armed Search Unit?

Witcher · 08-04-2012 12:58AM

Larianne wrote: »

Armed Search Unit?

Armed Support Unit

Larianne · 08-04-2012 01:00AM

Blay wrote: »

Armed Support Unit

Damnit! So close. :cool:

Pottler · 08-04-2012 01:00AM

xflyer wrote: »

Yes we do, have you seen the those guys driving around in the Volvos? But it's way past time the standard Garda carries a gun as standard.

The criminals carry guns. Just how many dead policeman do we need before common sense rules?

I wonder if the standard of the standard Garda would meet the standards required to issue a standard firearm. Common sense seems to tell me that we have not exactly had a rash of Gards getting blown away recently - and from what I've seen, most of the "criminals" the Gards have to deal with get it hard to carry a Tax disc more so than a .44 magnum. I think you should be posting in the "Compton Forum" which is ==>thataway, Homes.

K-9 · 08-04-2012 01:11AM

ardinn wrote: »

Big drugs hauls all over the place over the weekend but I have never seen so many Armed Response Units around the place.

Checkpoints around my area have had only ASU'S for the last 3 days and every 2nd guarda vehicle I see is an ASU.

Is it safe to say we might as well have an armed police force, these vehicles over the last few months, from what I see, Outnumber the general squad car by a long shot.

Why dont they just arm the guards anyway? Would you be opposed to it? Do you notice the increased armed garda presence in your area?

About 1 in every 3 Garda divisions has an armed response unit, a division would usually be the nearest large town, though in large counties, often not the case.

Roughly 1/3 are armed or allowed carry a gun, usually detectives. They obviously had a tip off in your area, I haven't seen one in years.

ardinn · 08-04-2012 01:41AM

K-9 wrote: »

About 1 in every 3 Garda divisions has an armed response unit, a division would usually be the nearest large town, though in large counties, often not the case.

Roughly 1/3 are armed or allowed carry a gun, usually detectives. They obviously had a tip off in your area, I haven't seen one in years.

I Guarantee you have,

They are very similar to the traffic core and usually go un-noticed unless your close to it

K-9 · 08-04-2012 01:56AM

ardinn wrote: »

I Guarantee you have,

They are very similar to the traffic core and usually go un-noticed unless your close to it

Thinking about it, probably did, at a border crossing.

Saw 3 squad cars tonight and no ASU's!

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy · 08-04-2012 02:47AM

Title of this thread looks like it belongs in conspiracy theories!!

Local-womanizer · 08-04-2012 02:56AM

I see the RSU all the time up here just driving around. I have seen them stop cars, without the Traffic Corp present.

A pert of me thinks yes, they should at least have some sort of firearm, be it a taser or pistol. The case in Co. Tipp last month where a member of the public produced 2 firearms on 2 members of the force and fire at them while all they could do is take cover behind a car is a serious situation for anyone to be in, least of all someone we expect to enforce the law. That situation could have had a much worse outcome than it had.

ieoinu · 08-04-2012 03:40AM

NiallSparky wrote: »

How many dead policemen have we had? Would that number really be less if they had guns?

If it saved one it'd be enough! Who's life it may have saved we'll never know, but just imagine it was you or your relative's life that was cut short and someone flippantly asked the same question as you?

minidazzler · 08-04-2012 02:03PM

ieoinu wrote: »

If it saved one it'd be enough! Who's life it may have saved we'll never know, but just imagine it was you or your relative's life that was cut short and someone flippantly asked the same question as you?

The problem with arming an entire police force are there are some who will interpret their rules of force differently even if they aren't open to interpretation (which they actually have to be). And that could quite easily lead to a civilian getting shot for some trivial reason. Saving one Garda isn't enough, actions they take have to be justified to protect the majority of people, and while I am for the most part in favour of an armed police force, you can't just train and arm people who joined an unarmed police force.

ieoinu · 08-04-2012 11:45PM

minidazzler wrote: »

The problem with arming an entire police force are there are some who will interpret their rules of force differently even if they aren't open to interpretation (which they actually have to be). And that could quite easily lead to a civilian getting shot for some trivial reason. Saving one Garda isn't enough, actions they take have to be justified to protect the majority of people, and while I am for the most part in favour of an armed police force, you can't just train and arm people who joined an unarmed police force.

Everything is open to interpretation, including the use of force. By your argument there should be no armed police whatsoever. Who is to say that the Gardaí that are armed now are the ones that definitely will never err and those unarmed Gardai are the reckless/unable ones that will/may end up shooting an innocent.

AGS becoming a fully armed police force is a departure i would not like to see. Not because I fear of the welfare of the innocent but because I'd see it as a sad reflection as to what we have become as a nation.

Not to be flippant but you could also argue that the police shouldn't drive cars because someone innocent may get killed when the respond to an incident.

Why should those that stand betwixt those of right and wrong be left without the ability to protect themselves so as to appease my sentiment our your somewhat shallow argument. Remember the police are innocent too and don't go around shooting recklessly, criminals do! And criminals have to be tackled using the full force of the law, and those that face them require and deserve to be able to protect themselves fully.

DonQuay1 · 15-04-2012 11:39AM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

There is a new RSU (Regional Support Unit) for the Tipp/Waterford/Carlow/Kilkenny Divisions, so that's why you've seen them more often. But they can only carry out certain checkpoints, and respond to certain calls (ie: they can't be sent to "normal" calls, only ones which involve firearms or major financial institutes.

And to train every Garda to handle or make-safe firearms would cost an arm and a leg, as they would require minimum 2 days per year on the range to stay trained.

I don't think they should have guns, but definitely tazers.

Even if the entire Gardai were trained up on firearms - they'd they'd never be able to use their guns anyway.

They'd all go deaf and have to be paid millions in compo. Then they'd still have to work as deaf cops protecting the country. Just like the entire deaf army that we have to protect our national borders .... Even the partime soldiers are deaf!

"As of 2004, the Minister for Defence expected the total liability to amount to €300 million to 17,000 claimants, ........"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Army_deafness_claims

"The Irish Army has 8,500 active personnel,[11] and 13,000 in the Army Reserve. The country is divided into three areas for administrative and operational reasons, and in each area there is an Infantry brigade........"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Forces_%28Ireland%29

Do we now have an armed Police force?

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