Garda at my door this morning!

Tomas_S · 05-04-2012 08:46AM #1

So this morning at 8.00am I was woken up by garda! Couldnt believe it when I opened my door.
And then they started asking me was I around Blessington area couple of weeks ago and did I have a silver Volvo.
The thing was I sold Volvo a week ago, but they were accusing me of filing the car with petrol around 3 weeks ago!!! without paying and that I looked very similar on cctv.Obviously the car had same registration plates.
Anyway, I was lucky in the end I found photos of the car I sold and there was some differences like sunroof etc.
So the lesson to be learned: always cover the reg. plates when selling the car!!!

Jimdagym · 05-04-2012 08:48AM

Or when robbing petrol...

dr.fuzzenstein · 05-04-2012 08:53AM

Scuzzballs can just as easily take your reg when out on a stroll around town.
You can't cover them then.
If I see an ad with reg plates covered, my first thought is why cover them? What has he got to hide? Next ad.

Tomas_S · 05-04-2012 08:55AM

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Scuzzballs can just as easily take your reg when out on a stroll around town.
You can't cover them then.
If I see an ad with reg plates covered, my first thought is why cover them? What has he got to hide? Next ad.

Thats exactly what I was thinking when selling:mad:

MuppetCheck · 05-04-2012 09:00AM

Why bother covering the reg plates? It's not rocket science to find a similar cars reg number. You can see it as you walk down the road, in a newspaper, from sites like cartell and motorcheck pretty easily.

There is no point covering the reg when selling a car as it is just going to put potential purchasers off. People cloning plates are not idiots and can get a reg if they wish from multiple sources.

chrismon · 05-04-2012 09:06AM

Its easier to search donedeal for the same model and colour car than to find one walking down the street.

pitachu · 05-04-2012 09:10AM

A very similar thing happened to my wife's business partner so I would agree with the covering of number plates online.

Yes, someone can take a note of your plate when you're driving around, but they are then heavily reliant on seeing the correct colour and model of car driving past. However with websites like carzone, donedeal etc they can search for an example fo the exact model colour spec etc and do this safely from their home.

TheZ · 05-04-2012 09:17AM

Not sure why the Gardai act as debt collectors for private enterprises

Garages can implement a pre-pay system if they want to stop this

Any other business who has somebody who doesn't pay has to sue them in contract for the loss

SnowDrifts · 05-04-2012 09:20AM

TheZ wrote: »

Not sure why the Gardai act as debt collectors for private enterprises

Garages can implement a pre-pay system if they want to stop this

Any other business who has somebody who doesn't pay has to sue them in contract for the loss

I think your overlooking the fact that theft is a criminal offence.

Masala · 05-04-2012 09:23AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weWj_1SBIUM

....song for this thread!

(ps..just some light relief....taking nothing from the OP concerns!!)

MuppetCheck · 05-04-2012 09:25AM

chrismon wrote: »

Its easier to search donedeal for the same model and colour car than to find one walking down the street.

Yes but if reg's were all covered like the original poster said done deal wouldn't come into it:rolleyes:

Still simple to get the reg of a car if required by not using internet adverts.

itsaposter · 05-04-2012 09:25AM

Cloning cars has been going on longer than the web’s been around, just takes a bit of patience – if it’s a criminal gang then they can have several pairs of eyes looking for a particular type of car, just wandering around car parks or standing around a busy street.

Pick a common car like a toyota avensis, and you'll see an identical year and colour within minutes.

The OP was lucky there was a sunroof to help, many car distributors now offer so little variation in colour & extra features that most people would struggle to prove a car wasn’t theirs.

Bandara · 05-04-2012 09:27AM

TheZ wrote: »

Not sure why the Gardai act as debt collectors for private enterprises

Garages can implement a pre-pay system if they want to stop this

Any other business who has somebody who doesn't pay has to sue them in contract for the loss

Are you for real ?

So you rob a television from a shop the guards don't pursue it?

You are aware that theft is against the law and the guards are there to uphold the law ?

TheZ · 05-04-2012 09:31AM

SnowDrifts wrote: »

I think your overlooking the fact that theft is a criminal offence.

My point is that garages operate a payment system which allows this to happen and other businesses which allow you to take goods before payment would be told it is a civil matter

Say you order a pile of bricks and never intended to pay and it is not COD and you ignore the invoice - is that theft? What would the Gardai say to the guy who sold you the bricks? Would they say it is a civil or criminal matter?

Theft is defined in Criminal Justice (theft and fraud offences) act 2001 in s4

Subject to section 5 , a person is guilty of theft if he or she dishonestly appropriates property without the consent of its owner and with the intention of depriving its owner of it.

For a crime to occur there has to be act and mental part of it - if the Volvo owner forgot to pay then it is not theft.

SnowDrifts · 05-04-2012 09:33AM

TheZ wrote: »

For a crime to occur there has to be act and mental part of it - if the Volvo owner forgot to pay then it is not theft.

Say you order a pile of bricks and never intended to pay and it is not COD and you ignore the invoice - is that theft? What would the Gardai say to the guy who sold you the bricks? Would they say it is a civil or criminal matter?

Theft is defined in Criminal Justice (theft and fraud offences) act 2001 in s4

Subject to section 5 , a person is guilty of theft if he or she dishonestly appropriates property without the consent of its owner and with the intention of depriving its owner of it.

Again, your missing the point. It is their job to investigate if a theft did indeed take place. I thought that would be obvious to most.

djimi · 05-04-2012 09:33AM

chrismon wrote: »

Its easier to search donedeal for the same model and colour car than to find one walking down the street.

Depends on the car I suppose. If I want the reg for a black Focus or blue Micra it wouldnt take me long to find one by wandering through a car park. Maybe for something more obscure I could see the benefit, but for any "normal" car then there is little benefit in covering your plates in an online ad.

TheZ · 05-04-2012 09:38AM

SnowDrifts wrote: »

Again, your missing the point. It is their job to investigate if a theft did indeed take place. I thought that would be obvious to most.

I agree but would they investigate the bricks story I gave above. Do they investigate other cases where a payment system allows delivery of goods before payment. Or in those cases is it a "debt collection" and civil matter.

I admit I am being devils advocate on this but garages could stop this by changing their payment system.

corktina · 05-04-2012 09:44AM

or by installing rising bolards

Anan1 · 05-04-2012 10:04AM

TheZ wrote: »

I agree but would they investigate the bricks story I gave above. Do they investigate other cases where a payment system allows delivery of goods before payment. Or in those cases is it a "debt collection" and civil matter.

I admit I am being devils advocate on this but garages could stop this by changing their payment system.

Is fuel 'delivered' before you leave with it? Or is sitting on a forecourt with a just-filled but not yet paid for tank much the same as standing in a jewellers shop with a not paid for watch in your hand?

Mar4ix · 05-04-2012 10:16AM

petrol stealing is a big problem for petrolstations, i was working 2 years as security in one. there is whole science how to steal petrol and dont pay. as ex pfs security i've learned a lot ways how people steal fuel. similar car plates is just kids messing .

Bandara · 05-04-2012 10:23AM

TheZ wrote: »

I agree but would they investigate the bricks story I gave above. Do they investigate other cases where a payment system allows delivery of goods before payment. Or in those cases is it a "debt collection" and civil matter.

I admit I am being devils advocate on this but garages could stop this by changing their payment system.

I get where your coming from, but your not coming at it from a reality point of view.

To use myself as an example, so far this year I have reported 34 drive offs to the Garda, I have as a result recovered the money owed on ONE of these drive offs, all the other 33 are never going to be settled. The Garda did pursue each one and several arrests and 2 of them are currently in cloverhill prison awaiting trail.

The Guards are extremely interested in drive offs as they are mainly done by people engaged in criminal activity and are a great way for the guards to catch up with them and have something concrete on them, ie one of the guys who did me twice was caught in the act in another petrol station as a result of a bulletin they put out after I provided them with CCTV etc. When they stopped this guy he had a lot of presumed stolen goods in the boot of his car, laptops, sat navs etc.

Also I report drive offs to prevent these people getting away with it again and again, I'm fully aware I'm not getting my money back in 99% of the cases

Just to be clear, a drive-off is just that, its someone who blatently drives into a garage to steal fuel, they drive to an outside pump, cover their face/have a hoodie hide behind the pump if they can and fill to the brim, jump into their car and speed off. Quite often they will have mud smeared on their reg, false plates etc etc

We do not call someone who forget to pay for fuel a drive-off, and if we do report it to the guards we tell them very clearly that it was a simple mistake and they approach it accordingly (normally they ring the customer as against sending a car to their house) . Camera systems these days show everything so there is no confusion as to what your dealing with.

lostboy · 05-04-2012 10:23AM

had a vespa scooter plate cloned a while back and then involved in a chase about 80 miles away, ad had been on donedeal for a couple of months and the scums put the reg on an APRILIA scooter, it was all very amusing bar the guards at the door at 8AM

Mar4ix · 05-04-2012 10:37AM

Hammertime wrote: »

I get where your coming from, but your not coming at it from a reality point of view.

To use myself as an example, so far this year I have reported 34 drive offs to the Garda, .....

only 34 in 3 months ? its roughly 11 a onth, or 1 in three days. not bad.

when i started work as security(contractor), there was 4 to 6 drive-offs every day, after 2 years when i was leaving, was 2 to 3 a week (days when i didnt work :P ).
those who left, i knew on face and their cars. ... i reported in house security even before thiefs went in to forecourt. ... but, as it was big company, they never bother, "just fill report, and leave on desk after shift finished ".
As security, i didnt had rights stop people, just observe and report. :pac:

SnowDrifts · 05-04-2012 10:37AM

TheZ wrote: »

I agree but would they investigate the bricks story I gave above. Do they investigate other cases where a payment system allows delivery of goods before payment. Or in those cases is it a "debt collection" and civil matter.

I admit I am being devils advocate on this but garages could stop this by changing their payment system.

You are right in that respect TheZ - regarding the non payment of construction goods, it is still a criminal matter but most of the time, it is not pursued by criminal due process.

As Hammertime posted above, sometimes the Gardai are keen to investigate the theft of fuel as it might lead to other crimes.
Perhaps another way to think of it is, if you dont pay for your pile of bricks, they will never deliver to you again but you can keep going back to the forecourt to steal fuel.

Bandara · 05-04-2012 10:42AM

Mar4ix wrote: »

Hammertime wrote: »

I get where your coming from, but your not coming at it from a reality point of view.

To use myself as an example, so far this year I have reported 34 drive offs to the Garda, .....

only 34 in 3 months ? its roughly 11 a onth, or 1 in three days. not bad.

when i started work as security(contractor), there was 4 to 6 drive-offs every day, after 2 years when i was leaving, was 2 to 3 a week (days when i didnt work :P ).
those who left, i knew on face and their cars. ... i reported in house security even before thiefs went in to forecourt. ... but, as it was big company, they never bother, "just fill report, and leave on desk after shift finished ".
As security, i didnt had rights stop people, just observe and report. :pac:

34 x about €100 euro each

= 14 grand a year

Mar4ix · 05-04-2012 10:49AM

Hammertime wrote: »

34 x about €100 euro each

= 14 grand a year

well not bad, as compare 5 -6 drive offs every day.... youll never stop thiefs steal petrol, unless pay upfront system on. that figures what you have it is not bad figures, if you dont have a security on forecourt. you have to justify money spending, pay for security or bite loss on petrol thieves. in your case it cheaper leave as it is.

would suggest analyse when and what time that happen, and even yourself walk around in high viz, might will get lower drive offs.

Security work is not catch thief, their job to prevent , been seen.

TomMc · 05-04-2012 10:54AM

Moral of the tale, have something distinctive about your car. Dealer number plate frames may have some use, even though something more permanent would offer more of a defense. Honestly Garda it wasn't me, see I have a faded Padre Pio sticker on the windscreen.:D

Chris_Heilong · 05-04-2012 11:20AM

The Guards are investigating a crime, they are not collecting money.

TheZ · 05-04-2012 11:33AM

SnowDrifts wrote: »

You are right in that respect TheZ - regarding the non payment of construction goods, it is still a criminal matter but most of the time, it is not pursued by criminal due process.

As Hammertime posted above, sometimes the Gardai are keen to investigate the theft of fuel as it might lead to other crimes.
Perhaps another way to think of it is, if you dont pay for your pile of bricks, they will never deliver to you again but you can keep going back to the forecourt to steal fuel.

Agree with all that and Hammertime puts it in context very well as usually a pattern of behaviour which leads me to understand why Gardai will get involved

I also think the immediacy of the delivery of goods and the deliberate act of driving off makes it easier to show intent to commit theft whereas in my bricks example that will be harder

Leads me to another point - if you are going to commit a crime make it one that the authorities have to do some thinking i.e. is what you have done what a "man on the street" would regard as a crime. If something is easy to prosecute you will be prosecuted.

the guy who gets delivery of the bricks and never intended to pay is as much guilty as the guy who robs fuel but proving that will be harder as there are many explanations he can come up with

anyway i am rambling off topic

TheZ · 05-04-2012 11:35AM

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

The Guards are investigating a crime, they are not collecting money.

In the "forgot to pay" case won't a phone call or call from the Gardai result in a "if you pay now, we'll forget about it" conversation

if you genuinely forgot to pay there is no crime as you lacked the necessary mens rea

rebel.ranter · 05-04-2012 11:50AM

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

The Guards are investigating a crime, they are not collecting money.

Do you know what annoys me though. They will investigate someone stealing €50 worth of petrol but they won't investigate the situation where someone reverses into your car & causes €500 quid worth of damage & drives off. Where's the logic in that?

Garda at my door this morning!

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