Brolly on a funny kind of Irishness? - Free State Unionists

Doc Ruby · 02-04-2012 02:11PM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Our record is poor not because of the GAA, it's because we are a tiny country (population-wise) without the physical attributes for most pure athletic disciplines - speed (Afro-Caribbeans), endurance (East-Africans) or strength steroids (Eastern Europeans).

FYP. Also Katie Taylor would like a word.

Feisar · 02-04-2012 02:28PM

xflyer wrote: »

I don't find it surprising that the GAA figures largely in this situation and that's exactly where the blame lies. The whole ethos of the GAA is supporting my team, my village, my town, my county. Abusive comments and brawls on and off the pitch are commonplace. The whole disciplinary issue in the GAA is the subject of constant debate.

So naturally any opportunity is taken to needle people is taken. One of the best ways is to have a go at any insecurities they have. Calling them Brit B*****ds or Orangemen will absolutely infuriate them given their history.

In the article he says Which I presume in his eyes maked him more Irish than us southern softies.

The racist suggestions are ridiculous. We're the same people. How can you be racist against your own race?

His mistake is to take an attitude within the GAA and extrapolate it to the wider community. Well it doesn't happen in other sports and in general most people 'down south' see the Northerners simply as Irish, even the Unionists (whether they like it or not).

The real problem is the GAA and their unwillingness or inability to deal with disciplinary issues within the organisation.

Personally I detest the GAA because because they've had a detrimental effect on sport in general in this country and also because they encourage parochialism rather than nationalism. People are often more proud of being from Kerry or Cork than being Irish. I would think that this is where much of the problem lies. The Northerners see themselves as Irish first and foremost because "we had to fight harder for it". The Laois guy is a Laoisman first and Irish a distant second.

That's your problem.

I agree but I don't think it's the GAA. we've always been tribal. It's us that makes the GAA tribal, not the other way around. And I mean "us" in a general sense, I detest the GAA and its associated arseholes.

c_man · 02-04-2012 02:59PM

Brolly with a chip on his shoulder SHOCKER!

KeithAFC · 02-04-2012 03:17PM

guitarzero wrote: »

It's interesting the superiority mind set people have the further down the republic you go. "Them nordies" followed by rolling eyes and smug chuckling. Easy to wind up, they're different to us, they're not Irish, etc etc this my personal experience.

What's also interesting is that these people have only spent a weekend at best up north. A friend of mine had actually said "they're very different to us". I asked him who are "they" what do you define as "us"? It's so riddled with small minded nonsense and contradiction, as one of the posters mentioned above, "its pretty backward".

He is right. Ulster people in Northern Ireland are very different.

Chuck Stone · 02-04-2012 03:22PM

Skid wrote: »

the reason many people in the Republic have no interest in a United Ireland is because the prospect of dealing with judgemental, backward thinking, self-obsessed drones like himself is not an appealing one.

You seem to be quite adept at the judgemental droning yourself.

I remember being called a 'British <whatever>' in school as a slagging thing. The people who used to do it were total droolers though and had a very unsophisticated understanding of everything outside where they came from. These would generally be the same type of people who would believe that Cork is the best city in the world and 'sure why would ya want to leave it'?

Even the word 'nordie' is bandied about as some sort of descriptor but is little more than a caricature of a person from the north. The 'nordie' caricature that has been created in the minds of the intellectually lazy by the establishment media in the south.

purplepanda · 02-04-2012 03:34PM

Why does the whole nation have to be all the exact same in outlook & attitude? There are slightly different histories & cultures in regions & provinces in most world nations?

You only have to look across the sea at England, Geordies & Cockneys, Cornish & Brummies, Cornish & Yorkshire.

Ireland is not much different IMO! Go across the Island from one side to another & there are many changes along the way as you travel.:cool:

forfuxsake · 02-04-2012 03:37PM

purplepanda wrote: »

Why does the whole nation have to be all the exact same in outlook & attitude? There are slightly different histories & cultures in regions & provinces in most world nations?

You only have to look across the sea at England, Geordies & Cockneys, Cornish & Brummies, Cornish & Yorkshire.

Ireland is not much different IMO! Go across the Island from one side to another & there are many changes along the way as you travel.:cool:

Mancs and scousers, 27 miles apart.

Chuck Stone · 02-04-2012 03:46PM

purplepanda wrote: »

Why does the whole nation have to be all the exact same in outlook & attitude? There are slightly different histories & cultures in regions & provinces in most world nations?

Yes but generalising and stereotyping in a matter-of-fact way is just stupid - it's can be funny when it is understood to be a joke.

Take for example Harry Enfield's 'scousers' or 'cockneys' caricatures of Liverpudlians and Londoners - it is obviously a joke and meant to be.

steelcityblues · 02-04-2012 03:52PM

Brolly has a point.

The Laois players involved obviously like being part of a 32 county sporting organisation, yet see the Armagh lads as something 'different' and 'inferior', not on a regional level, but something worse.

John Doe1 · 02-04-2012 03:58PM

Edz87 wrote: »

They have a silly accent.

Their argument is invalid.

Racism:p

xflyer · 02-04-2012 04:09PM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Our record is poor not because of the GAA, it's because we are a tiny country (population-wise) without the physical attributes for most pure athletic disciplines - speed (Afro-Caribbeans), endurance (East-Africans) or strength (Eastern Europeans).

But we're under achieve even in other sports not dominated by these countries.

Also, is a measure of a sport's worth whether it is played internationally or not? Plenty of Aussies play Aussie Rules or Rugby League - doesn't seem to affect their nation's standing in international sport.

That actually proves my point, the Aussie rules people didn't attempt to eradicate cricket, soccer and all the other 'garrison games' as did the GAA.

My point isn't whether GAA is a good game or not. But it has had a detrimental effect on the playing of other sports and it feeds off the innate tribalism of Irish people. I don't think that's a positive thing.

steelcityblues · 02-04-2012 04:13PM

xflyer wrote: »

My point isn't whether GAA is a good game or not. But it has had a detrimental effect on the playing of other sports and it feeds off the innate tribalism of Irish people. I don't think that's a positive thing.

You do not think all team sports have a level of tribalism? In places like Glasgow or Manchester, you can be in for a beating if you wear the 'wrong' colours in a certain part of the city. Limiting it to the GAA is dishonest.

WesternZulu · 02-04-2012 04:17PM

xflyer wrote: »

But we're under achieve even in other sports not dominated by these countries.

That actually proves my point, the Aussie rules people didn't attempt to eradicate cricket, soccer and all the other 'garrison games' as did the GAA.

Maybe if other sports had put half as much effort and money into their own sports at a local level as the GAA has done throughout the years, we would be more successful at an international level.

xflyer wrote: »

My point isn't whether GAA is a good game or not. But it has had a detrimental effect on the playing of other sports and it feeds off the innate tribalism of Irish people. I don't think that's a positive thing.

Every sport feeds off tribalism, wait till the summer when the whole country gets behind the soccer team for the European Championships. Same difference.

benway · 02-04-2012 04:20PM

xflyer wrote: »

That actually proves my point, the Aussie rules people didn't attempt to eradicate cricket, soccer and all the other 'garrison games' as did the GAA.

Well, seeing as cultural imperialism was going the other way for so long, I don't blame them for being a bit protective, plus the ban has been gone quite a while now.

If anything, we probably punch a little above our weight on the international scene, imho.

The rugby team are certainly doing alright, give or take a slightly disappointing World Cup and Six Nations ... only disappointing because we were in with a not unrealistic shout of winning both.

Then again, the IRFU went to the trouble of nurturing the sport at grass-roots level, encouraging school-kids around the country to get involved and to develop their skills ...

xflyer · 02-04-2012 04:22PM

steelcityblues wrote: »

You do not think all team sports have a level of tribalism? In places like Glasgow or Manchester, you can be in for a beating if you wear the 'wrong' colours in a certain part of the city. Limiting it to the GAA is dishonest.

We're not talking about England or Scotland. We're talking about Ireland.

WesternZulu · 02-04-2012 04:23PM

Actually a lot of the rugby lads have played Gaelic Football, some at a very decent level (Rob Carney, Tommy Bowe, Shane Horgan).

If anything it helped them in their respective sports as opposed to hindering their development.

xflyer · 02-04-2012 04:32PM

WesternZulu wrote: »

Maybe if other sports had put half as much effort and money into their own sports at a local level as the GAA has done throughout the years, we would be more successful at an international level.

That's the standard excuse and it ignores the history of the ban which froze out anything other GAA, particularly in rural counties. While it's gone now, it's effect is still evident.

Every sport feeds off tribalism, wait till the summer when the whole country gets behind the soccer team for the European Championships. Same difference.

The whole country including the North will be behind the Irish team, that's nationalism. The Irish soccer team is a classic example of the effect of the dominance of GAA. That's why they often have to resort to players born in Britain. There is a much smaller pool of soccer players to choose from once you move away from the Dublin, Cork and other big towns with a tradition of playing soccer. I wonder how many members of the Irish team have come from GAA strongholds like Kerry, Tipperary, Kilkenny over the years?

benway · 02-04-2012 04:35PM

WesternZulu wrote: »

Actually a lot of the rugby lads have played Gaelic Football, some at a very decent level (Rob Carney, Tommy Bowe, Shane Horgan).

If anything it helped them in their respective sports as opposed to hindering their development.

Rugby in the winter, football in the summer was always the way when I was growing up.

To bring it back on topic, the Laois thing is a very unwelcome development to my way of thinking, but this even more so:

A few days later, petrol was poured on the Dromid fire by the request from Dr Crokes’ Killarney chairman Vincent Casey that their supporters be segregated from Crossmaglen’s for their recent All-Ireland club semi-final. Casey had other demands: “We are also looking for an increased number of stewards at the venue and a bigger Garda presence than last Sunday.” He seemed to think that Crossmaglen’s supporters would be arriving sporting black berets, dark glasses and AK47s. It was of course nonsensical, but again, it illustrated a certain mindset.

One of the things I've always admired about GAA matches is the way that opposing supporters will sit alongside each other and have a bit of banter, but no real malice to it. I have never perceived a need for segregation, certainly there were no problems at Crossmaglen v Garrycastle. Apart from the result.

Stark contrast to the football factory wannabe casuals you get at League of Ireland games ... if that league hasn't folded?

ceegee · 02-04-2012 04:38PM

Didnt Brolly have that exact article in the Mail on Sunday last week?? They really are behind the times up North.

All this talk of the Laois player being racist or believing Northern people are inferior is rubbish. If you were looking to windup a GAA head from the north whats the most obvious choice?

c_man · 02-04-2012 04:42PM

xflyer wrote: »

While it's gone now, it's effect is still evident.

Really? Over four decades and it still has an effect? How? I suggest naming the areas of the country that are only represented by a GAA football or hurling club and no other sports. Should be a fairly handy task if what you've said is in any way accurate.

The whole country including the North will be behind the Irish team

No they won't...

ceegee · 02-04-2012 04:54PM

xflyer wrote: »

WesternZulu wrote: »

Maybe if other sports had put half as much effort and money into their own sports at a local level as the GAA has done throughout the years, we would be more successful at an international level.

That's the standard excuse and it ignores the history of the ban which froze out anything other GAA, particularly in rural counties. While it's gone now, it's effect is still evident.

Every sport feeds off tribalism, wait till the summer when the whole country gets behind the soccer team for the European Championships. Same difference.

The whole country including the North will be behind the Irish team, that's nationalism. The Irish soccer team is a classic example of the effect of the dominance of GAA. That's why they often have to resort to players born in Britain. There is a much smaller pool of soccer players to choose from once you move away from the Dublin, Cork and other big towns with a tradition of playing soccer. I wonder how many members of the Irish team have come from GAA strongholds like Kerry, Tipperary, Kilkenny over the years?

The whole country, INCLUDING THE NORTH???

Not sure if you got the memo but a sizable amount of the Norn Iron fans arent exactly enamoured with the FAI or their teams.

With regard to GAA strongholds producing soccer players, the last Irish squad had players from Wexford, Waterford, Galway, Tipp, Derry and Donegal. Not to mention that Cork and Dublin are also strong GAA areas. Picking players born outside of Ireland isnt down to the GAA, it happens in every country in the world. Did England pick Barnes and Hargreaves cos London GAA had robbed all their midfielders? Maybe its only cos of the Munich Shamrocks that Podolski got into the German team.

Duckworth_Luas · 02-04-2012 05:03PM

ceegee wrote: »

The whole country, INCLUDING THE NORTH???

Not sure if you got the memo but a sizable amount of the Norn Iron fans arent exactly enamoured with the FAI or their teams.

With regard to GAA strongholds producing soccer players, the last Irish squad had players from Wexford, Waterford, Galway, Tipp, Derry and Donegal. Not to mention that Cork and Dublin are also strong GAA areas. Picking players born outside of Ireland isnt down to the GAA, it happens in every country in the world. Did England pick Barnes and Hargreaves cos London GAA had robbed all their midfielders? Maybe its only cos of the Munich Shamrocks that Podolski got into the German team.

You have to admire Bayern Munich who struggled against the oppressive regime of Munich Shamrocks all those years. Once the ban ended a young hurler called Proinsias Beckenbauer was convinced to take up the rather odd sport of soccer. The rest as the say is history!

cournioni · 02-04-2012 05:09PM

As someone who lives just south of the border I think he has a point.

forfuxsake · 02-04-2012 05:10PM

ceegee wrote: »

The whole country, INCLUDING THE NORTH???

Not sure if you got the memo but a sizable amount of the Norn Iron fans arent exactly enamoured with the FAI or their teams.

With regard to GAA strongholds producing soccer players, the last Irish squad had players from Wexford, Waterford, Galway, Tipp, Derry and Donegal. Not to mention that Cork and Dublin are also strong GAA areas. Picking players born outside of Ireland isnt down to the GAA, it happens in every country in the world. Did England pick Barnes and Hargreaves cos London GAA had robbed all their midfielders? Maybe its only cos of the Munich Shamrocks that Podolski got into the German team.

Podolski is a German citizen who has lived there since he was two. Hardly comparable to the average English ROI player whose sole claim is that his ma got spit-roasted in a bar and the guy on the rump end was so drunk he might have been a paddy.

Doc Ruby · 02-04-2012 05:11PM

xflyer wrote: »

But we're under achieve even in other sports not dominated by these countries.

Actually per capita we scored as many medals in the 2008 Summer Olympics as the UK, and what, about three times more per capita than the USA.

Jimoslimos · 02-04-2012 05:17PM

xflyer wrote: »

This made sure that sports minded kids were funneled into GAA and that remains the case. Our record in international sports is poor compared to countries of comparable. If the local GAA club expanded it's activities to include other sports like athletics or whatever. That could improve. Whatever you think of GAA sports they don't travel well and there is little scope for even the best GAA player to move onto the international stage.

Your attitude is reminiscent of the old East German /Soviet bloc countries. International sporting recognition at all costs. Identify kids at an early age and *encourage* them to concentrate on those sports which they show most aptitude for.

"What's that Jimmy?", "You want to play hurling?.....sorry is there Olympic gold medals in that sport?....What?? No.....a world cup or championship?....No....How about concentrating on the long jump instead?? You're decent enough at that. Good lad!"

Kids should be free to play any/all or none of the sports available to them - they're not tools to be utilised in boosting our future gold medal count

Jimoslimos · 02-04-2012 05:24PM

xflyer wrote: »

The Irish soccer team is a classic example of the effect of the dominance of GAA. That's why they often have to resort to players born in Britain. There is a much smaller pool of soccer players to choose from once you move away from the Dublin, Cork and other big towns with a tradition of playing soccer. I wonder how many members of the Irish team have come from GAA strongholds like Kerry, Tipperary, Kilkenny over the years?

What about the English rugby team? A country with by far the highest number of registered players of all the unions, still select players like Flutey, Vainikolo, Tuilagi, etc. Don't even get me started on the cricket....Morgan :pac:

ceegee · 02-04-2012 05:39PM

forfuxsake wrote: »

ceegee wrote: »

The whole country, INCLUDING THE NORTH???

Not sure if you got the memo but a sizable amount of the Norn Iron fans arent exactly enamoured with the FAI or their teams.

With regard to GAA strongholds producing soccer players, the last Irish squad had players from Wexford, Waterford, Galway, Tipp, Derry and Donegal. Not to mention that Cork and Dublin are also strong GAA areas. Picking players born outside of Ireland isnt down to the GAA, it happens in every country in the world. Did England pick Barnes and Hargreaves cos London GAA had robbed all their midfielders? Maybe its only cos of the Munich Shamrocks that Podolski got into the German team.

Podolski is a German citizen who has lived there since he was two. Hardly comparable to the average English ROI player whose sole claim is that his ma got spit-roasted in a bar and the guy on the rump end was so drunk he might have been a paddy.

Care to mention any examples of these players? Pretty sure theres a grand total of ZERO players in the Irish squad with an English mam and Irish dad, let alone one conceived during a spit roast.

The majority of our recent recruits from outside the Replublic have been from catholic areas of Derry - hardly an area free from GAAs influence. In fact English born players are becoming a bit of a rarity compared to the Charlton era

benway · 02-04-2012 05:51PM

I think we can all accept that, in the recent past, the boxers, middle distance runners, swimmers (*ahem*), cyclists, and even the cricket XI have done the country proud.

The reason that the soccer team is what it is - still doing reasonably well in the grand scheme of things, imho - has very little to do with the GAA and everything to do with the fact that the sport is a shambles at grass-roots level, and that most diehard soccer fans in this country wouldn't dream of actually going to a league of Ireland game.

Going down the pub to watch Manchester United and droning on all week to anyone who'll listen about the glorious win "we" had is about as far as it goes with most of them ... in my experience these same people tend to be some of the most self-righteous critics of "gah" and all.

While I'm at it, these same people are often very keen to run down traditional music as "diddley eye" "paddywhackery", and to dismiss efforts to promote the language, like TG4, as a waste of money. While happily sitting through the X-Factor before getting on to the Premiership of a Saturday night.

Generalising horribly here, obviously, but you get the point. This is before even getting started on the Cruisers and Harrises of this world.

c_man · 02-04-2012 05:54PM

ceegee wrote: »

let alone one conceived during a spit roast.

Well, we can't be sure of that :pac:

Brolly on a funny kind of Irishness? - Free State Unionists

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