Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

Giggsy11 · 30-03-2012 11:41AM

Trilla wrote: »

Does Cleverly have the injury history Anderson does? Has he ever played more than 7 or 8 games in a row? We wouldn't get much for him thats the only reason it wouldn't make much sense to get rid imo.

Yes Cleverley has almost similar injury record. I read that in redcafe, someone posted all the injury problems Cleverley had. There is not much between them.

Nalz · 30-03-2012 11:46AM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Yes Cleverley has almost similar injury record. I read that in redcafe, someone posted all the injury problems Cleverley had. There is not much between them.

Really I didnt know that. I thought he was clean enough. He played full seasons at Wigan and Hull. I know he did his shoulder in at Leicester and everyone at OT was shítting it but that was a once off no? When did Ando ever play two full seasons in a row?

Giggsy11 · 30-03-2012 11:46AM

Trilla wrote: »

Really I didnt know that. I thought he was clean enough. He played full seasons at Wigan and Hull. When did Ando ever do that?

Cleverley injury record.
2007- Ruled out for seven months
2009: Shoulder injury that cut short his loan spell for Leicester.
2009: Watford loan, Knee ligament injury due to which his loan spell ended in April
2010-11: Missed few games for Wigan
2011-12 Barely played and was out for many months.

Nalz · 30-03-2012 11:48AM

Trilla wrote: »

Really I didnt know that. I thought he was clean enough. He played full seasons at Wigan and Hull. I know he did his shoulder in at Leicester and everyone at OT was shítting it but that was a once off no? When did Ando ever play two full seasons in a row?

Sorry Watford not Hull, and almost a full season!

Giggsy11 · 30-03-2012 11:50AM

Cleverley and Anderson's best season on appearances. Also this season Anderson has played more games.

Cleverley:
2009-10: 35 appearances
2010-11: 25 appearances
2011-12: 12 appearances

Anderson:
2007-08: 38 appearances
2008-09: 38 appearances
2010-11: 30 appearances
2011-12: 16 appearances

Nalz · 30-03-2012 11:54AM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Cleverley:
2009-10: 35 appearances
2010-11: 25 appearances
2011-12: 12 appearances

Anderson:
2007-08: 38 appearances
2008-09: 38 appearances
2010-11: 30 appearances
2011-12: 16 appearances

Cheers. I thought Cleverely had a better injury record. But surely form, development and number of competitions come in to play here in terms of appearances?

Speaking of form and putting injuries aside, Anderson has gone missing many a game too. How long are we going to put faith in him and hoping he goes on a run/stays fit?

Giggsy11 · 30-03-2012 11:56AM

Trilla wrote: »

Sorry Watford not Hull, and almost a full season!

No not almost a full season. He was injured for around 2 months.

Also if we consider last 3 seasons (Including this) Cleverely has played 3 games more than Anderson. Anderson played at highest level whereas Cleverley at Wigan and second tier league.

Giggsy11 · 30-03-2012 12:01PM

Trilla wrote: »

Cheers. I thought Cleverely had a better injury record. But surely form, development and number of competitions come in to play here in terms of appearances?

Speaking of form and putting injuries aside, Anderson has gone missing many a game too. How long are we going to put faith in him and hoping he goes on a run/stays fit?

We can also say because Anderson played in many games he was injured? I mean how many times has Cleverely played 3 games in a week?

Yes Anderson has gone missing in many games, but when he got run of games more often he did well than not. And how many games did Cleverley play at top level to say he can do better than Anderson? When Clevereley was playing in bottom league and smaller teams, Anderson was playing in champions league games.

Only thing that is holding back Anderson is his injuries where Cleverley is not better either. If he can stay injury free I believe he will become very good player for us. I mean both of them. I dont know why fans are showing double standards when it comes to Cleverley and Anderson. (Not directed at you, just general observation

)

Nalz · 30-03-2012 12:04PM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

No not almost a full season. He was injured for around 2 months.

Are you being picky here? He was injured when, in April? Thats the second last month of a season of which May is not even a full month.

Also I dont think the level of football has much to do with it to be honest.

I agree though Cleverley has picked up a few knocks over the years, more than I knewe of, but its annoying in terms of investment and the faith we consistently seem to have in Anderson. Maybe this is the blindness, that Ando has played in big games or some important premier league games and was disappointing.

Giggsy11 · 30-03-2012 12:11PM

Trilla wrote: »

Are you being picky here? He was injured when, in April? Thats the second last month of a season of which May is not even a full month.

Also I dont think the level of football has much to do with it to be honest.

I agree though Cleverley has picked up a few knocks over the years, more than I knewe of, but its annoying in terms of investment and the faith we consistently seem to have in Anderson.

Not being picky, just that when Anderson was injured for a month or two we dont count it as full season. Anyways benefit of doubt, Clverley played full season. But so did Anderson in his first season after he was back from his foot injury. He played almost same number of league games as Cleverley did at Watford. So again not much to choose there.

I agree with your last line though, it is annoying that we have paid so much for Anderson and he has been injured every season. But imo now that shouldn't be in equation when we compare Anderson and Cleverley. That was done 5 years back and now we have 2 players who should be judged on the performance on the pitch and availability to the team.

Nalz · 30-03-2012 12:14PM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

That was done 5 years back and now we have 2 players who should be judged on the performance on the pitch and availability to the team.

Very true.

Smegball · 30-03-2012 12:26PM

I would definitely keep Anderson. Before his injury near the start of the season he was absolutely amazing. He's only 23.

Pro. F · 30-03-2012 12:49PM

That's a pity to see that Cleverley's injury record is so bad. Hopefully it clears up from now on because he is obviously a class player. He definitely has all the skills to be the long term replacement for Scholes and is good enough already to be in the first team.

Anderson should be sold in the summer and somebody more useful brought in imo. He has plenty of skill, but he can't be relied on to fill either role in the centre. He's far too lazy to be relied on defensively and he can't shoot to save his life so he comes up very short in the role of a creative cm.

I had a lot of patience for Anderson over the years, but I've lost it this season. Himself and Cleverley did a lot of good things when they had their run of games together and they showed how useful it is to have two central midfielders who can actually control the ball properly. But even while that was going on it finally became clear to me that Anderson's flaws mean he can't be relied on. Add that to his injuries and he just doesn't bring enough to the squad imo. Get him off the wage bill if at all possible and get in somebody who offers more.

Giggsy11 · 30-03-2012 02:49PM

Pro. F wrote: »

That's a pity to see that Cleverley's injury record is so bad. Hopefully it clears up from now on because he is obviously a class player. He definitely has all the skills to be the long term replacement for Scholes and is good enough already to be in the first team.

Anderson should be sold in the summer and somebody more useful brought in imo. He has plenty of skill, but he can't be relied on to fill either role in the centre. He's far too lazy to be relied on defensively and he can't shoot to save his life so he comes up very short in the role of a creative cm.

I had a lot of patience for Anderson over the years, but I've lost it this season. Himself and Cleverley did a lot of good things when they had their run of games together and they showed how useful it is to have two central midfielders who can actually control the ball properly. But even while that was going on it finally became clear to me that Anderson's flaws mean he can't be relied on. Add that to his injuries and he just doesn't bring enough to the squad imo. Get him off the wage bill if at all possible and get in somebody who offers more.

Anderson is lot better than Cleverley defensively. He averages more tackles, interceptions, blocks, clearances per game.

I like Cleverley, he brings lot to the team but he is massively overrated now a days as few said in the previous thread. He has barely played and didn't do any better than Anderson still he is rated as top player whereas Anderson is not. When we played so much better at the start of the season Anderson was better than Cleverley.

Backstreet Moyes · 30-03-2012 05:02PM

Do people remember when Anderson first joined and he was very attacking. He is very good at dribbling and has alot of power when running with the ball. But Ferguson tried to turn him into a more defensive player. I think he plays too deep and instead of running at players he ends up trying hollywood balls that rarely come off. I would like to see him be giving a more free roll to run with the ball. Would like to see a midfield trio of Anderson, Cleverley and Carrick and see what its like.

Skud · 30-03-2012 05:21PM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Cleverley and Anderson's best season on appearances. Also this season Anderson has played more games.

Cleverley:
2009-10: 35 appearances
2010-11: 25 appearances
2011-12: 12 appearances

Anderson:
2007-08: 38 appearances
2008-09: 38 appearances
2010-11: 30 appearances
2011-12: 16 appearances

Those stats do not present Utd's medical team / training regimes in any positive light!

Al Capwned · 30-03-2012 05:25PM

ah lads not the medical staff argument again......

Red Crow · 30-03-2012 05:34PM

Pro. F wrote: »

That's a pity to see that Cleverley's injury record is so bad. Hopefully it clears up from now on because he is obviously a class player. He definitely has all the skills to be the long term replacement for Scholes and is good enough already to be in the first team.

Anderson should be sold in the summer and somebody more useful brought in imo. He has plenty of skill, but he can't be relied on to fill either role in the centre. He's far too lazy to be relied on defensively and he can't shoot to save his life so he comes up very short in the role of a creative cm.

I had a lot of patience for Anderson over the years, but I've lost it this season. Himself and Cleverley did a lot of good things when they had their run of games together and they showed how useful it is to have two central midfielders who can actually control the ball properly. But even while that was going on it finally became clear to me that Anderson's flaws mean he can't be relied on. Add that to his injuries and he just doesn't bring enough to the squad imo. Get him off the wage bill if at all possible and get in somebody who offers more.

On what do you base the fact that he is obviously a class player. Perhaps you meant it loosely. I don't "see" a Cleverley and Carrick partnership developing. When Cleverley had his run of good form at the start he played alongside a certain Mr. Anderson, who was in great form too. Carrick and Cleverley are too alike. They both sit too close to the defence to have them both on the team. Our problem this year has been pressing the ball high up the pitch, which was massively exposed in Europe.

I'm not criticising Cleverley either. I don't think he took his chance and he probably wasn't able too after getting injured in such a good vein of form. Am I excited about Cleverley? Of course, he looked great in spells. But, if he gets moved out wide like Bilbao away then he's not going to be here very long.

I'd like to think at the start of next season we would be able to have Anderson, Cleverley, Pogba and Carrick all still at the club fit and fighting for their position. We aren't going to sign another midfielder if we re-sign Pogba and have high hopes for one of Cleverley or Anderson.

G.K. · 30-03-2012 05:50PM

Utterly removed to my view of the CM - I'd keep Pogba and Cleverly, and buy 3 new CM's.

Skud · 30-03-2012 05:54PM

alproctor wrote: »

ah lads not the medical staff argument again......

The_Kew_Tour · 30-03-2012 06:10PM

Nuts102 wrote: »

Do people remember when Anderson first joined and he was very attacking. He is very good at dribbling and has alot of power when running with the ball. But Ferguson tried to turn him into a more defensive player. I think he plays too deep and instead of running at players he ends up trying hollywood balls that rarely come off. I would like to see him be giving a more free roll to run with the ball. Would like to see a midfield trio of Anderson, Cleverley and Carrick and see what its like.

All 4 signings that summer got off to great starts with United. Anderson looked a peach of a buy at the time, and your right he did play a more free role and seemed to play well in it.

Red Crow · 30-03-2012 06:24PM

G.K. wrote: »

Utterly removed to my view of the CM - I'd keep Pogba and Cleverly, and buy 3 new CM's.

That's not feasible in so many ways. Our best CM is Carrick excluding Scholes. Sell him? That's silly imo

Son Of A Vidic · 30-03-2012 06:39PM

Smegball wrote: »

I would definitely keep Anderson. Before his injury near the start of the season he was absolutely amazing. He's only 23.

Amazing?....No, he had 4-5 relatively decent games at the start of the season, which didn't last for long and now he's indispensable?

Smegball wrote: »

He's only 23.

Which makes his 5 injury riddled seasons at United, whilst producing mostly shyte, all the more worrying.

G.K. · 30-03-2012 07:02PM

Eli Manning wrote: »

That's not feasible in so many ways. Our best CM is Carrick excluding Scholes. Sell him? That's silly imo

No, you misunderstand - I was referring to the post I quoted. I'd keep Carrick and Fletcher, Cleverly, Pogba, buy in 3 new ones and do the same thing with Scholes like they did this season again next time around.

The 3 new ones would all be young, I'd go for one in the Martinez mould, one in the Eriksen mould, and one in the Xhaka mould.

VW 1 · 30-03-2012 07:34PM

G.K. wrote: »

Eli Manning wrote: »

That's not feasible in so many ways. Our best CM is Carrick excluding Scholes. Sell him? That's silly imo

No, you misunderstand - I was referring to the post I quoted. I'd keep Carrick and Fletcher, Cleverly, Pogba, buy in 3 new ones and do the same thing with Scholes like they did this season again next time around.

The 3 new ones would all be young, I'd go for one in the Martinez mould, one in the Eriksen mould, and one in the Xhaka mould.

And after nOt buying a CM in years you think we will splash 80-90m on young talent for one position in one summer? Fair enough I agree and it'd be the stuff f dreams but it won't happen.

If we signed Martinez alone we would be doing better than any of us could expect.

PhlegmyMoses · 30-03-2012 07:52PM

Nuts102 wrote: »

I would like to see him be giving a more free roll

It's all the free rolls he gets that are the problem.

G.K. · 30-03-2012 09:05PM

VW 1 wrote: »

And after nOt buying a CM in years you think we will splash 80-90m on young talent for one position in one summer? Fair enough I agree and it'd be the stuff f dreams but it won't happen.

If we signed Martinez alone we would be doing better than any of us could expect.

I agree with you that it WON'T happen, I just think it should.

Justin10 · 30-03-2012 09:18PM

Anderson I thought was brilliant at start of season. Shocked to see he has played more then Cleverly this season.

Last time he came back he seemed to of lost a lot of weight too.
Think people forget he only 23.

kryogen · 30-03-2012 09:19PM

I still have (must be close to blind) faith in Ando, I think he can do it at United, I feel he will get an injury free run next season and will start to show that he can be consistent as well as obviously talented.

To have higher hopes for Clev over him or hold Clev up as the superior of the two has always seemed odd to me given the evidence. United knew the risks when signing Ando regarding his leg breaks etc and how sometimes players never really recover properly/always going to be susceptible to injury because of it and to let him go now, after 5 years of sticking with him, when he has surely fully matured physically now makes no sense to me.

If the same happens next season it may be time to just cut the losses and ship him on to PSG or wherever will actually pay a fee for him. But given what has been shown by him, including an improvement on his shooting he deserves another shot. Hargo was cut plenty of slack by fans when it was pretty clear that he was never going to get back.

Why write the guy off at such a young age? huge money has been invested in him and I would hate to see him move on and become a huge success elsewhere tbh, Nani took a while to develop, some players develop later then others, the majority dont do it till they are in the mid twenties, Ando has the talent in my eyes, its just a matter of finding a way to keep him fit.

MagicMarker · 30-03-2012 09:28PM

I want him to stay forever and ever and ever...

Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

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