The New Multicultural Ireland - The Benefits?

woodoo · 29-03-2012 11:44PM

Stained Class wrote: »

Multi-racial: okay

Multi-cultural: disaster

It's been proven in the UK & other countries.

Communities of immigrants that don't/won't integrate foster suspicion in their host country.

This leads to suspicion, distrust & a general level of paranioa.

All in all, not good stuff really.

I agree i like when people come over and integrate. What i don't want is a Bradford here is Ireland with half a town or city becoming a Pakistani ghetto. Full of Pakistani culture and little else.

RichieC · 29-03-2012 11:47PM

When all their kids grow up we might get a decent football team.

wait, is the racist? I'm always wondering, like saying jews are good bankers.. it's a compliment!

Nodin · 29-03-2012 11:47PM

EGAR wrote: »

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/10/16/us-germany-merkel-immigration-idUSTRE69F1K320101016

You realise that it was virtually impossible for somebody not deemed to have 'german blood' to get citzenship until just 10 years before that speech was made?

Doc Ruby · 29-03-2012 11:57PM

iliketeaandcake wrote: »

He was asking what was in it for him and I gave him a fair answer. Ireland, as an island, has a very limited gene pool, like Iceland. It's good to mix it up a bit don't you think??!

Compare and contrast the populations of the two countries, go get a PhD in genetic studies, then come back to us and tell us how Ireland is terribly inbred. To save you some time: no, its not.

pragmatic1 · 30-03-2012 12:00AM

If you ever get ill OP, they'll likely be treating you. Think America and how immigration has been a positive force in that country. The immigrants we get in Europe are among the best and brightest in their home countries. You would be shocked at the qualifications some of them have while working menial jobs.

EGAR · 30-03-2012 12:00AM

Nodin wrote: »

You realise that it was virtually impossible for somebody not deemed to have 'german blood' to get citzenship until just 10 years before that speech was made?

This is not quite true. Many of the second generation Turks, Greek etc hold German citizenship.

Jorah · 30-03-2012 12:11AM

Nodin wrote: »

It seems to be far from the disaster you think it, as far as I can see.

As a Londoner, I disagree.

"Multiculturalism" is a broad term so to say there can only be ONE culture in a nation is false. Yet there must be a unifying strong sense of national pride that comes from a sense of a shared culture. This is incredibly difficult to do amongst various groups that have different religious and cultural loyalties.

Islam does not function in modern Western nations. Sikhism and Hinduism tend to adapt better, but they are enclosed communities. The fabric of a society is ruined when there are ethnic loyalties amongst multiple groups of people.

I'm not somebody that hates immigration or blindly accepts racist dogma. As an English person whose ancestors came from Ireland, it would be hypocritical of me to be so bigoted.

Jewish and Irish immigration to the East End of London was protested against. Yet they have been able to integrate without problem. Yet this isn't the case when you pull immigrants from different continents into a modern European nation. It's just asking for trouble.

Multi-Ethnic societies can absolutely work. However, tribal warfare is inevitable in a Multicultural society and that is what will happen if the Irish put a larger emphasis on tolerance and acceptance of new immigrants as opposed to integration of these people into Ireland.

I cannot look at Brick Lane London with the Urdu translation under the street sign and think that is right. I cannot hear locals referring to this area as "Banglatown" and believe this is a positive thing. I can't imagine the EastEnders being shelled to **** during the Blitz 70 years ago, enduring such conditions so their home town can be completely transformed by mass third world immigration.

amacachi · 30-03-2012 12:14AM

Clareboy wrote: »

No more work permits for non EU citizens

Cancel all existing non EU work permits

All non-nationals (except UK ) on welfare to be repatriated

In other words, protect our labour market and save on welfare.

Why would you let just the Brits stay?

Jorah wrote: »

Multiculturalism is an utter disaster.

Whats happened to London will be reflected in Dublin.

True, sure we can't even handle two cultures for the entire island.

woodoo · 30-03-2012 12:20AM

Jorah wrote: »

As a Londoner, I disagree.

"Multiculturalism" is a broad term so to say there can only be ONE culture in a nation is false. Yet there must be a unifying strong sense of national pride that comes from a sense of a shared culture. This is incredibly difficult to do amongst various groups that have different religious and cultural loyalties.

Islam does not function in modern Western nations. Sikhism and Hinduism tend to adapt better, but they are enclosed communities. The fabric of a society is ruined when there are ethnic loyalties amongst multiple groups of people.

I'm not somebody that hates immigration or blindly accepts racist dogma. As an English person whose ancestors came from Ireland, it would be hypocritical of me to be so bigoted.

Jewish and Irish immigration to the East End of London was protested against. Yet they have been able to integrate without problem. Yet this isn't the case when you pull immigrants from different continents into a modern European nation. It's just asking for trouble.

Multi-Ethnic societies can absolutely work. However, tribal warfare is inevitable in a Multicultural society and that is what will happen if the Irish put a larger emphasis on tolerance and acceptance of new immigrants as opposed to integration of these people into Ireland.

I cannot look at Brick Lane London with the Urdu translation under the street sign and think that is right. I cannot hear locals referring to this area as "Banglatown" and believe this is a positive thing. I can't imagine the EastEnders being shelled to **** during the Blitz 70 years ago, enduring such conditions so their home town can be completely transformed by mass third world immigration.

Wise words. Its just a pity anything other than blind acceptance of the march towards multiculturalism is shouted down as racist.

We need to move very slow here in Ireland with immigration. That way there is a higher chance to integrate. We also need to put Irish culture first and not be to afraid to say to newcomers... "no, sorry this is how we do it here". When in Rome and all that. People come here they adapt to our ways of life and if they can't handle that then they can go home imo

amacachi · 30-03-2012 12:22AM

woodoo wrote: »

"no, sorry this is how we do it here"

Other than whether something is legal or not what business is it of yours exactly?

bwatson · 30-03-2012 12:24AM

Jorah wrote: »

As a Londoner, I disagree.

"Multiculturalism" is a broad term so to say there can only be ONE culture in a nation is false. Yet there must be a unifying strong sense of national pride that comes from a sense of a shared culture. This is incredibly difficult to do amongst various groups that have different religious and cultural loyalties.

Islam does not function in modern Western nations. Sikhism and Hinduism tend to adapt better, but they are enclosed communities. The fabric of a society is ruined when there are ethnic loyalties amongst multiple groups of people.

I'm not somebody that hates immigration or blindly accepts racist dogma. As an English person whose ancestors came from Ireland, it would be hypocritical of me to be so bigoted.

Jewish and Irish immigration to the East End of London was protested against. Yet they have been able to integrate without problem. Yet this isn't the case when you pull immigrants from different continents into a modern European nation. It's just asking for trouble.

Multi-Ethnic societies can absolutely work. However, tribal warfare is inevitable in a Multicultural society and that is what will happen if the Irish put a larger emphasis on tolerance and acceptance of new immigrants as opposed to integration of these people into Ireland.

I cannot look at Brick Lane London with the Urdu translation under the street sign and think that is right. I cannot hear locals referring to this area as "Banglatown" and believe this is a positive thing. I can't imagine the EastEnders being shelled to **** during the Blitz 70 years ago, enduring such conditions so their home town can be completely transformed by mass third world immigration.

Your post is fantastic and I completely agree.

I don't have any problem with foreign culture having some sort of effect on a host nation. You may see Polish shops, Jewish shops etc around parts of London and that is fantastic as they add a different dimension to a local community. However, when you have Bangladeshi/Pakistani areas which have more or less consumed entire districts, forced the retreat of native shops, businesses and communities, and enforced a way of life which is deemed acceptable accepted in the distant land they have arrived from, it simply isn't on. Seeing the road signs on the streets of London, the heart of the anglosphere etc is very disconcerting. Ken will be back soon to ensure there are many more to accompany them

Doc Ruby · 30-03-2012 12:31AM

Jorah wrote: »

As a Londoner

And we're off.

amacachi wrote: »

Why would you let just the Brits stay?

Three guesses and the first two don't count.

amacachi wrote: »

True, sure we can't even handle two cultures for the entire island.

Except we've had dozens of cultures in the Republic for the last ten years and we seem to be handling it just fine.

bwatson wrote: »

Your post is fantastic and I completely agree.

Please stop being a cliche.

woodoo · 30-03-2012 12:32AM

amacachi wrote: »

Other than whether something is legal or not what business is it of yours exactly?

I'm talking about silly things like not calling a blackboard a blackboard anymore, minimising Christmas celebrations for fear of insulting other religions, women expecting to be allowed wear the burqa where others wouldn't be allowed cover their face and on and on.

The King of Moo · 30-03-2012 12:35AM

woodoo wrote: »

I'm talking about silly things like not calling a blackboard a blackboard anymore, minimising Christmas celebrations for fear of insulting other religions, women expecting to be allowed wear the burqa where others wouldn't be allowed cover their face and on and on.

I don't think any of these things have happened in Ireland.

And claims of them happening in other countries have been greatly exaggerated, like the Birmingham Winterval myth which countless numbers of people still believe thanks to the daily mail.

mikemac1 · 30-03-2012 12:37AM

woodoo wrote: »

I'm talking about silly things like not calling a blackboard a blackboard anymore,

I'm pretty sure that one was an internet myth

Jorah · 30-03-2012 12:41AM

Doc Ruby wrote: »

And we're off.

Off to an opinion you don't like? Rather than trying to refute my points or discuss the issue, you'd rather dismiss everything I've said because of my location...

Mr.Biscuits · 30-03-2012 12:41AM

woodoo wrote: »

There are 544,357 non irish people in the country now according to the census. I'd be interested in knowing how many of them are unemployed.

Roughly 20% of people on social welfare are non-nationals.

I remember back in 2010 there was a staggering report that in that year alone - the number of foreign nationals on the dole, jumped from 45,000 to almost 80,000.

Just like there were many many warnings regarding Ireland's economic good fortune not being all that it seemed, there too were equally as many warnings regarding the amount of non-nationals we were letting into the country, but as with everything else in Ireland, the people that needed to listen, didn't - they just stuck their fingers in their ears, pointed their fingers and screamed: 'racist!' - and they're still doing it, just not with as much vigor as they were.

Maybe in another ten years time, just as we can all sit down now and see Bertie and Co in their true and deserving light, we too will be able to do the same regarding Ireland's Immigration policies of the past fifteen years and just what a negative impact that has had on the country. Maybe, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

amacachi · 30-03-2012 12:43AM

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Three guesses and the first two don't count.

Eh?

Except we've had dozens of cultures in the Republic for the last ten years and we seem to be handling it just fine.

I was being half-sarcastic since when ya look at the Love Ulster debacle it seems we're not that great. It's fine for now as long as the recent immigrants haven't really politicized themselves.

woodoo wrote: »

I'm talking about silly things like not calling a blackboard a blackboard anymore, minimising Christmas celebrations for fear of insulting other religions, women expecting to be allowed wear the burqa where others wouldn't be allowed cover their face and on and on.

The blackboard thing is a myth, Christmas celebrations are fine once state funds aren't spent and agreed on the burkha. You're ok with white Christians though is what I assume you're trying to get at.

Doc Ruby · 30-03-2012 12:47AM

Jorah wrote: »

Off to an opinion you don't like? Rather than trying to refute my points or discuss the issue, you'd rather dismiss everything I've said because of my location...

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Except we've had dozens of cultures in the Republic for the last ten years and we seem to be handling it just fine.

Next we roll out the "Ireland hasn't had enough time to become racist", then we rock the "UK was racist in a shorter time than ten years if you look at the various acts of parliament", before wrapping it up with "any other country would have had riots if one person in six was foreign over a period of ten years".

Any questions?

amacachi · 30-03-2012 12:49AM

Mr.Biscuits wrote: »

Roughly 20% of people on social welfare are non-nationals.

I remember back in 2010 there was a staggering report that in that year alone - the number of foreign nationals on the dole, jumped from 45,000 to almost 80,000.

There's 766,770 people in the country who were born abroad which is about 16.7% of the population. Given that foreign-born residents will naturally be underrepresented in the pensioner and under-15s age groups that puts that 20% pretty much on par for everyone. Given how reliant they were on the worst-affected sectors in the recession and yet have only the same unemployment rate it's pretty good going by them.

amacachi · 30-03-2012 12:51AM

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Next we roll out the "Ireland hasn't had enough time to become racist", then we rock the "UK was racist in a shorter time than ten years if you look at the various acts of parliament", before wrapping it up with "any other country would have had riots if one person in six was foreign over a period of ten years".

In fairness there's merit in that "time to become racist" thing, I've noticed a slow change in sentiment since the start of the crash unfortunately.

KeithAFC · 30-03-2012 12:52AM

amacachi wrote: »

Why would you let just the Brits stay?

True, sure we can't even handle two cultures for the entire island.

That is more deep rooted though. We seem to be pretty much accepted now.

Doc Ruby · 30-03-2012 12:53AM

amacachi wrote: »

In fairness there's merit in that "time to become racist" thing, I've noticed a slow change in sentiment since the start of the crash unfortunately.

Did you notice it on AH from anonymous posters, entirely anecdotally from your own experiences, or through a peer reviewed study?

amacachi · 30-03-2012 01:00AM

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Did you notice it on AH from anonymous posters, entirely anecdotally from your own experiences, or through a peer reviewed study?

Own experiences.

Jorah · 30-03-2012 01:02AM

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Next we roll out the "Ireland hasn't had enough time to become racist", then we rock the "UK was racist in a shorter time than ten years if you look at the various acts of parliament", before wrapping it up with "any other country would have had riots if one person in six was foreign over a period of ten years".

Any questions?

You're not making any sense.

It doesn't matter if I'm from London or Amsterdam. I'm from a place where Multiculturalism is failing and I'm giving my opinion on it.

CajunOnTour · 30-03-2012 01:21AM

Great news in the census; despite the best efforts of FF the population rose and there was little net emigration in the year to April 2011 (three years after the crash).

While no doubt the current illegitimate FG & Labour Regime will have had Irish people emigrating in despair and disgust at the destruction of democracy in Ireland since then, the continued influx of young bright productive people from across the globe will compliment those of us still here (and with luck they'll pay our college fees)

These incomers will more than compensate for those forced to emigrate because of the construction and financial collapse and suicidal policies of the current Fascist Government. They are also very easy on the eye, especially the eastern females. My current girlfriend is Polish, neither she nor her family has ever drawn welfare in Ireland, so I can vouch for them them on several fronts.

I think Food Science or Agriculture, Genetic crop engineering is the way to go (that's where I'm headed); maybe for a few years while we recover we could stop funding pointless third level education in Law, Arts, and Social "sciences"?

At least till we finish with the Bank Reparations to the EU, which will take until another election restores democracy.

Skimming the thread one thing is clear - we need to cut out this xenophobic and barely disguised racist reaction to the great news contained in the census.

Doc Ruby · 30-03-2012 01:23AM

amacachi wrote: »

Own experiences.

Fair enough, not meaning to be a hardass about it, but I'm pretty impressed by our national response to mass immigration. It gives one faith.

Jorah wrote: »

You're not making any sense.

It doesn't matter if I'm from London or Amsterdam. I'm from a place where Multiculturalism is failing and I'm giving my opinion on it.

But it does matter, since it appears to be failing where you're from and not failing where I'm from. I agree that many of the more extreme attitudes of muslim minority sects need readjustment, but either we don't have them here or they are blunted by the local easygoing attitude.

amacachi · 30-03-2012 01:24AM

CajunOnTour wrote: »

Great news in the census; despite the best efforts of FF the population rose and there was little net emigration in the year to April 2011 (three years after the crash).

While no doubt the current illegitimate FG & Labour Regime will have had Irish people emigrating in despair and disgust at the destruction of democracy in Ireland since then, the continued influx of young bright productive people from across the globe will copliment those of us still here (and with luck they'll pay our college fees)

These incomers will more than compensate for those forced to emigrate because of the construction and financial collapse and suicidal policies of the current Fascist Government.

I think Food Science or Agriculture, Genetic crop engineering is the way to go (that's where I'm headed); maybe for a few years while we recover we could stop funding pointless third level education in Law, Arts, and Social "sciences"?

At least till we finish with the Bank Reparations to the EU, which will take until another election restores democracy.

Skimming the thread one thing is clear - we need to cut out this xenophobic and barely disguised racist reaction to the great news contained in the census.

Huh.

mikemac1 · 30-03-2012 01:26AM

CajunOnTour wrote: »

Great news in the census; despite the best efforts of FF the population rose and there was little net emigration in the year to April 2011 (three years after the crash).

While no doubt the current illegitimate FG & Labour Regime will have had Irish people emigrating in despair and disgust at the destruction of democracy in Ireland since then, the continued influx of young bright productive people from across the globe will copliment those of us still here (and with luck they'll pay our college fees)

These incomers will more than compensate for those forced to emigrate because of the construction and financial collapse and suicidal policies of the current Fascist Government.

I think Food Science or Agriculture, Genetic crop engineering is the way to go (that's where I'm headed); maybe for a few years while we recover we could stop funding pointless third level education in Law, Arts, and Social "sciences"?

At least till we finish with the Bank Reparations to the EU, which will take until another election restores democracy.

Skimming the thread one thing is clear - we need to cut out this xenophobic and barely disguised racist reaction to the great news contained in the census.

Strange post

Seems to me it was written by a smug student will little experience of working in the real world and dealing with real pressures

amacachi · 30-03-2012 01:28AM

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Fair enough, not meaning to be a hardass about it, but I'm pretty impressed by our national response to mass immigration. It gives one faith.

So was I til maybe 18 months ago but I've been alarmed at the changes in attitudes I've seen in that time.
Actually tbh having 1 in 6 of a population being foreign-born is just damn impressive, I wonder if anywhere other than places full of refugee camps has a higher proportion than that. Quick glance says the US and UK are both lower anyway.

The New Multicultural Ireland - The Benefits?

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