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What are the differences?

  • 27-03-2012 3:48pm
    #1
    Crann na Beatha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭


    This post has been deleted.


Comments

  • #2
    Doug Cartel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭Doug Cartel


    Aquila wrote: »
    What are the major difference's between Judo,Ju-Jitsu and Brazilian Ju-jitsu?
    Judo is wrestling with a jacket on, the aim is to throw your opponent and then if that's not enough to finish him off you pin or choke/joint lock them. How much time spent doing throws and how much time spent doing ground fighting varies from school to school, but the focus is mainly on the throws.

    BJJ is quite similar, but focuses on fighting on the ground, and doesn't consider the fight over until somebody gets a choke or joint lock.

    Ju-jitsu is technically a catch all term for a wide variety of Japanese martial arts (armed and unarmed) which operate on a principal of yielding to an on-coming force in order to control it. In practice if somebody talks about "Japanese" or "Traditional" ju-jutsu, they are talking about something that looks like judo with punching and kicking added in.

    That's one way of differentiating them. Another way would be to say that Judo and BJJ focus very much on making you do the techniques against a resisting opponent, and leave things out that would be too dangerous to do so. Ju-jitsu has more techniques, but these are often only practised in a very static manner, such as in pre-arranged two man forms.

    Between judo and BJJ I would say that there is a philosophical difference in that judo encourages you to go for a quick decisive win, even if it means taking a bit of a risk, where as BJJ encourages you to take a more methodical approach, where you progressively work your way to a win.


  • #3
    slammer187
    Registered Users Posts: 145 ✭✭slammer187


    In Judo there's no such thing as 'Open' guard, You don't learn to pass guard from standing, there are no leglocks and you don't learn the kinds of transitions or drill submissions as much as you do in BJJ

    In BJJ there's a total focus on the ground, whilst you do learn some judo and there and some great Judo players in BJJ such as Roger Gracie, Rodolfo Vieira, Xande Ribeiro and the Camarillo Bros. that come from a Judo background a common option for people is to pull guard, In BJJ you're aloud to aloud to attack the legs for takedowns and you have until the match finished to play on the ground as opposed to the 10 seconds you get in Judo. In BJJ you also score for techniques on the ground and score for back control (In Judo controlling the back isn't considered as a pin so you are stood back up within a space of time depending on the ref) the ways you can win in BJJ are by points or submission or Judges decision much the same as Judo!

    Basically they're both grappling arts with different rules and objectives, essentially BJJ is more dynamic because of the rules and Judo is more focus on the sole objective of scoring Ippon even though you can win by submission or points.

    As far as Ju-Jitsu goes or however you spell it I don't know anything about it :P


  • #4
    Doug Cartel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭Doug Cartel


    slammer187 wrote: »
    In Judo there's no such thing as 'Open' guard,
    That's a bit of a semantic fudge due to the naming scheme used in judo. The various guard positions are seen as "transition" positions and therefore get no name. That does not mean they do not exist. In my judo club we spend a fair amount of time working on things like butterfly sweeps.

    Of course this varies from club to club. We are a university club and get a lot of blow-ins, and often we will get guys who have fantastic throwing games, but once they are on the ground all they do is try to dig themselves into a turtle position.


  • #5
    slammer187
    Registered Users Posts: 145 ✭✭slammer187


    Doug Cartel wrote: »
    That's a bit of a semantic fudge due to the naming scheme used in judo. The various guard positions are seen as "transition" positions and therefore get no name. That does not mean they do not exist. In my judo club we spend a fair amount of time working on things like butterfly sweeps.

    Of course this varies from club to club. We are a university club and get a lot of blow-ins, and often we will get guys who have fantastic throwing games, but once they are on the ground all they do is try to dig themselves into a turtle position.

    It's hard to define but generally speaking a legit open guard is played with tension and you have full mobility to move your hips off of your back and you should also be able to play if from when your opponents of on their knees or from standing which you can't do with butterfly. I see it more as a position with which you can grip fight and transition into other guards.

    For example I like to play guard with a cross collar and sleeve grip which I grip fight for from butterfly guard, sometimes I get butterfly sweep but I usually transition from butterfly into submissons or different types of guards like de la riva or knee shield with my cross collar and sleeve grip.

    Basically Marcelo Garcia is known for having a good butterfly guard but mainly uses it to transition into X-guard or a submission.

    But I suppose under the rules of Judo butterfly guard is the closest thing to a 'non-closed' guard that there is :P


  • #6
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Aquila wrote: »
    What are the major difference's between Judo,Ju-Jitsu and Brazilian Ju-jitsu?

    Major Differences?

    Jujutsu: generic term, originated in 17th Century Japan. Generally used to describe systems that placed an emphasis on grappling, Often designed for situations where arms and armour were being used. Older styles are rarely found outside Japan.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeki2y-r-Dc


    Judo: modern martial way based jujutsu, originated in meiji period japan. emphasis on training as means of education/self development. Training placed an emphasis on unarmed grappling alone. Developed into an Olympic sport.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y08NyDg2TE


    Jiu Jitstu/Ju Jitsu: Genric term used by some self defence and martial arts schools to describe what they do, originated in western europe and america between world wars. The emphasis in training will be on grappling. Usually has no actual connection to jujutsu as it was trained in its homeland, although some will claim otherwise

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odpCJtVBsos


    Brazillian/Gracie JiuJitsu: Modern grappling style based on Judo. Originated in Brazil between the world wars, heavy emphasis placed on grappling from prone positions.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAAnrqDygns


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  • #7
    SBG Ireland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 826 ✭✭✭SBG Ireland


    imho from around 15yrs experience the difference would be

    judo - by blackbelt you can throw a decent strong athletic guy who is resisting
    BJJ - by blackbelt you can submit a decent strong athletic guy who is resisting
    JJJ - by BB you can do cool demos against non resisting static opponents.

    this is purely anecdotal and purely based on my personal experience of being thrown on my head but dozens of judo bbs, submitted by 100s bjj bbs and having trained with dozens of jjj bbs who didnt seem to have any real applicable skill.


  • #8
    Barry.Oglesby
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭Barry.Oglesby


    SBG Ireland wrote: »
    imho from around 15yrs experience the difference would be

    judo - by blackbelt you can throw a decent strong athletic guy who is resisting
    BJJ - by blackbelt you can submit a decent strong athletic guy who is resisting
    JJJ - by BB you can do cool demos against non resisting static opponents.

    this is purely anecdotal and purely based on my personal experience of being thrown on my head but dozens of judo bbs, submitted by 100s bjj bbs and having trained with dozens of jjj bbs who didnt seem to have any real applicable skill.
    There's a really hard style jiu jitsu ... Jutsu... Joutsiu around eastern Europe. You may have come across it. Anyway they say a lot of polish/Ukrainian BJJ guys started with it. COmpetitions look a lot like C class mma.

    That being said, I agree with your sentiments. I've never met a judo black belt who couldn't throw me, or a BJJ black belt who couldn't submit me, but I have met jiu jitsu black belts who couldn't fight. I think it's fair to say that standards vary.


  • #9
    SBG Ireland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 826 ✭✭✭SBG Ireland


    and of course the varying standards comes down to one thing....how they are trained, training methods :)


  • #10
    Doug Cartel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭Doug Cartel


    SBG Ireland wrote: »
    judo - by blackbelt you can throw a decent strong athletic guy who is resisting
    BJJ - by blackbelt you can submit a decent strong athletic guy who is resisting
    JJJ - by BB you can do cool demos against non resisting static opponents.
    The guy who teaches jujutsu at my judo club seems to be able to handle himself. His classes are a mix of alive training with simple drills and mma style sparring and but also the more stereotypical sequences of standing wrist locks and eye-gouges, kicks to the knee, etc.

    Back when I was in Edinburgh the jujutsu guys who trained in the hall across from my judo class couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. They were basically a martial arts themed drinking club.


  • #11
    ryoishin
    Registered Users Posts: 754 ✭✭✭ryoishin


    Japanese jujutsu is just a term and often means judo with karate. Everytime I go to Japan they ask me in the airport why I am there and they have nt a clue what jujutsu, koryu, ryuha is. Say judo and they smile at you.

    I train in a koryu jujutsu system and bjj. I agree with John that its the training method.

    Some japanese jujutsu schools do no alive training and some do a bit and others do alot. Usually the ones that do alot are also judo players. What happens in one jujutsu club can be completely different to another.


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  • #12
    lukeyjudo
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭lukeyjudo


    SBG Ireland wrote: »
    JJJ - by BB you can do cool demos against non resisting static opponents.

    Nothing wrong with demos, B-) less black eyes, more babes! :)


  • #13
    TrollHammaren
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 651 ✭✭✭TrollHammaren


    Doug Cartel wrote: »
    The guy who teaches jujutsu at my judo club seems to be able to handle himself. His classes are a mix of alive training with simple drills and mma style sparring and but also the more stereotypical sequences of standing wrist locks and eye-gouges, kicks to the knee, etc.

    That style is basically Jujutsu only in name. It's the German police variation of Jujutsu but it's quite different to the traditional Japanese style in that the moves are more modern with a lot of the traditional moves replaced with those of other styles. Punches would be based on boxing rather than Karate, for example.


  • #14
    Doug Cartel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭Doug Cartel


    TrollHammaren wrote: »
    That style is basically Jujutsu only in name. It's the German police variation of Jujutsu but it's quite different to the traditional Japanese style in that the moves are more modern with a lot of the traditional moves replaced with those of other styles. Punches would be based on boxing rather than Karate, for example.
    My point being that "Jujutsu" can mean a whole bunch of things and it's difficult to make any blanket statements about it.

    As an aside, the style that they were practising in Edinburgh also claims to be a modernised version of traditional jujutsu. I think a lot of the "traditional" and "Japanese" styles have had to fess up to this since the internet came along.


  • #15
    SBG Ireland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 826 ✭✭✭SBG Ireland


    one name meaning many

    which is why i think terms like 'traditional' and even most 'style' names are complete waste of time. can mean very different things to different people

    most judo and bjj schools follow a similar training method which leads to them being FUNctional against resisting opponents
    if (insert style name here) does not follow a similar training method then regardless of what techniques are trained they will not be able to consistently pull them off against opponents unless they have a massive attribute advantage (a 100kg ripped athlete doesnt need much technique to throw around a weak 60kg guy....but not much skill involved, and not what martial arts is about!). but of course that's only factually speaking.


  • #16
    Dermighty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,748 ✭✭✭Dermighty


    Barry.Oglesby wrote: »
    There's a really hard style jiu jitsu ... Jutsu... Joutsiu around eastern Europe. You may have come across it. Anyway they say a lot of polish/Ukrainian BJJ guys started with it. COmpetitions look a lot like C class mma.

    That being said, I agree with your sentiments. I've never met a judo black belt who couldn't throw me, or a BJJ black belt who couldn't submit me, but I have met jiu jitsu black belts who couldn't fight. I think it's fair to say that standards vary.

    This might be what you were talking about there, I remember it being a club in UCC when I went there. I rolled with a few guys from the class last year, they wear a similar uniform to BJJ (not as heavy) and they didn't train with 1% of the pressure/resistance you train BJJ with, even taking grips or putting pressure on your opponent was quite alien to them. I've no idea how this stacks up against a black belt though.


  • #17
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Dermighty wrote: »
    This might be what you were talking about there, I remember it being a club in UCC when I went there. I rolled with a few guys from the class last year, they wear a similar uniform to BJJ (not as heavy) and they didn't train with 1% of the pressure/resistance you train BJJ with, even taking grips or putting pressure on your opponent was quite alien to them. I've no idea how this stacks up against a black belt though.

    Nah it's this stuff more likely, IIRC the german jujutsu competition stuff was semi contact and no striking allowed once a grip was taken, maybe that changed
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlYCMJNFjoE


    And for people concerned about foights, opponents and styles, worth a read:

    http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/content.php?144-A-Strategy-and-Tactics-Primer-for-the-Martial-Artist


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