Joe Calzaghe Legend ?

Not mad on Joe's style, his slapping, lack of power, but he was a winner, great stamina, good chin, great footwork, speed, tactics, strong and durable.

Who did he duck? Roy Jones? Winky 154 lb Wright? C'mon!

I won't go into it, but look at their careers and you will see that their paths never crossed, same with Toney and Calzaghe, and same with Hopkins and Calzaghe. Hop was a 160 lb fighter up until a few years ago.

Joe is a true warrior who knew how to win, and in my mind, at peak, him and Jones would have been a real good scrap. Remember, when they met, BOTH were past it.

Lacy was an over-hyped flop, and Joe knew this and proved it.
The Kessler win, when Joe was past his best, was Joe's best win.

Hatton was brutally exposed twice by two great fighters. People always say, "well at least he met them," yes he did, and he did sh1t. Hatton has his skill set and Joe has his, but Hatton is not in the same league
as Joe Calzaghe. Joe is far more versatile than Hatton.

joepenguin wrote: »

Even with all his flaws, the division he was in and opposition available Joe is a legend. So is his dad as a trainer.

Although Enzo's career has stalled, the fact he managed to:
-Get Gavin Rees to win a version of a World title, and at 2/3 weight classes above where he should be fighting.

-Get Enzo Maccarinelli fighting well enough that a super fight with David Haye could be justified. Even if Maccarinelli had managed to beat all the same guys, were it not for his quality performance v Braithwaite the Haye fight may still have been made but would not have earned Macca so much nor have been half the occasiosn.

-Have Bradley Pryce win the Commonwealth title, and at 1/2 weight classes above where he should have been fighting. Pryce had been failing miserably at domestic level and then went on to be a solid Commonwealth champion making quite a few defences and beating a very good fighter in Ossie Duran to capture the belt.

-Start the very promising career of Nathan Cleverly

Shows what a good trainer he was, and that's added to what he did with his own son.

A man who never boxed in his life and he has trained 3 fighters to World titles, another to a Commonwealth title and another of his did get into the position to fight for a World title(Gary Lockett). Frank Warren managing all of his fighters has helped, but never the less he's done very well for himself.

He's unlikely to have much success in the future, Joe and Lockett have retired, Maccarinelli has left him and the two left aren't the most dedicated guys in the World, and Pryce may be a little shopworn. Rees could pick up a British or Commonwealth title but he has no one really left in his stable and with his son retired I can't see him having the same dedication.

Big Ears wrote: »

A man who never boxed in his life and he has trained 3 fighters to World titles, another to a Commonwealth title and another of his did get into the position to fight for a World title(Gary Lockett).

Exactly, legendary stuff. Never boxed, never coached, didnt even pay head to a lot of the sport science and nutrition info. Just did his thing and look what he produced. Imo he should have been a little more open minded but its not as if he could have won 47 out of 46 so who am i to criticise.

I think his career at the top is over alright though as his training methods need a particular type fo fighter that is probably hard to come by. That's not to say he's no good, just seems stuck in his ways so you either have faith in him or you dont. With Joe retired he will have a higher % of his attention for other fighters but naturally with his son out of the game he may not have the same passion. Some story though.

ODD-JOB wrote: »

I always remembered Pavlik as the fighter who was avoided by Joe.

Not a legend in my opinion . A winner - Yes .
But ledgend title only comes from extraordinary achivements.

Kessler , Jones ,Lacey - now we wonder how good these fighter really were , since seeing them post Calzaghe

A. Ward schooled Kessler
Jones was past his best no doubt
Lacey was found out as a HBO hype job.

Hopkins beat Joe in 80% of public opinion .

Hopkins is a real legend in my opinion , and continues to be at 44 +

80%??? Are you for real???

Hopkins is a fukin dirtbag. He is absolute visual rape to watch and my only hope is that he does actually move up to heavyweight and challenge David Haye as i would like to see the scumbag carried out on a stretcher and never fight again.
Calzaghe easily beat him and the only way the fight could be scored for hopkins is if you were giving points for attempted sexual molestation or bitch whingeing.

People saying Calzaghe had no power are talking out through their arses. He broke his hands in the fight against Robin Reid and has never punched the same way since. He couldnt throw with the power he had because he'd keep breaking his hands again if he did. He turned away from power and concentrated on speed and very few people could live with his speed. Believe me, if Joe had been in trouble late on in any fight you'd have seen what power he had left. He just never really had to use it to get the results.

Is Joe a legend? No. But he's a bloody good boxer who won world titles and retired undefeated. In comparisson to some of the fighters out there being called legends he is as good and he will be remembered as one of the best british fighters of his era. However, I rate Eubank and Benn just as highly. The only difference is they got beaten.

cowzerp wrote: »

Hopkins will torture Haye if they fight, i'd say it would be a very handy fight for B Hop



The bookies at the end of the fight where strongly given the fight to BHop and they dont work off who they like, Bhop won that fight as far as im concerned even if he was negative..



Wrong, he simply moved up a level and stopping average fighters is harder than stopping journeymen.Eubank was his 1st real fight and that went the distance, many felt Reid won the fight also and that also went to split decision so his 1st 2 ok fights where decisions.

Joe was never a power puncher by any stretch and only ever got 2 actual KO's on his record against frank minton and tyler hughes!!! he stopped lads through pressure, usually raining 15-20 slaps on while the ref stopped it.

Joe flattened the granite chinned Eubank with a single punch in the first round. He didn't stay down but there was no question as to the power of the shot. He broke both hands against Reid in the first 3 rounds and still won the fight, although it was a split decision and i myself thought Reid had done enough.
I dont think that the fight against Hopkins was for a bookies belt so i dont really care what they thought at the end of the fight. Joe won it. Check the records.
Hopkins barely threw a proper punch beyond the 4th round. It wasn't just negative, it was an insult to the term boxing. Akinwande v Lewis was all jabs and slick combos compared to that horror show. I thought BHop was going to call out Randy Couture after that display.
And ftr, David Haye would decapitate Hop. He might have a good chin but he wouldnt stand a chance against that power. I doubt it would go beyond 6.

ODD-JOB wrote: »

I always remembered Pavlik as the fighter who was avoided by Joe.

Not a legend in my opinion . A winner - Yes .
But ledgend title only comes from extraordinary achivements.

Kessler , Jones ,Lacey - now we wonder how good these fighter really were , since seeing them post Calzaghe

A. Ward schooled Kessler
+

i'm going to go out on a limb here and say Ward would have given a prime joe calzaghe a stiff challenge. Kessler is not a bad fighter he was just made to look like one against a guy who has great footwork and handspeed.

wouldnt say Joe Calzaghe is a legend he was a great champion did what he had to do to win wasnt a fan but do admire what he did with his career
as far as fighting former champs past their best that was good management easier fights for big money thats why his career went on for so long and he stayed champ its common sense fighters turn professional first and foremost to get paid for boxing otherwise they would just stay amatuer But what Joe did do was fight the big fights for big paydays and i think that shows intelligence.
Joe retired undefeated as champion beat some big names but in the current climate it doesnt make him a legend because we know he beat some fighters past their best not all just some but in 50 ,60 years time when were all gone maybe people of that error will look back and say that guy Joe Calzaghe is a legend.

Andrew Flexing wrote: »

Some interesting posts here...I think Joe had great talent and heart. But I think if all fighters in their prime RJJ was the best and would have beaten Joe if it had have been organised prior to RJJ's demise. Also
hopkins would have done likewise.

Just bumping an old thread. The Hopkins point gets me. Hopkins was a MW for his peak years. I would like to see where at 168-175 Hopkins could have been better than Joe? I have seen nothing from him at 168-175 to say he beats the best Clazaghe.

When they did meet he was beaten by a past it Joe.. Hopkins style is just not all that good for beating Joe's. Hopkins is too patient, too "lazy" and doesn't have terrific power. Joe beats Hopkins on workrate most times.

Bernard's best night above MW was his win over Tarver. But that is Tarver. Joe offers a lot more problems. Bernard's tactics and cuteness may work against some men, but Joe is too clever and tactical to be deceived by Hopkins.

He is a legend wales anyway

walshb wrote: »

And same with Hop. Who did he meet that was special? One can criticise many men for their opposition. Bottom line, at 168 lbs, no man on earth was better than Calzaghe from 1997-2007. That is a fact.

Remember: Kessler was seen as the real deal and a past it Joe met and bet him.

He beat pavlik and Pavlik was highly rated at the time, also De la Hoya and Trinidad who was unbeaten like pavlik, that and the kessler win go down as the same for me-that was Joes best win and performance against decent opponent, his good wins are not that good in hindsight-lacy useless, Kessler good but far from great and both RJJ and Bhop who where shadows of themselves and both dropped him, many feel Bhop won too as did the bookies

Calzaghe was exciting against bums

Funny, for a guy with lovely balance and feet and very good handspeed, Joe was a lot of the time very tough to watch. He was involved in many scrappy and awkward fights. Born winner. Unreal stamina, balance, hand speed, and was quite stong too. Very rough inside. That is why he would be a match for any man at 168. Also, his punch technique was pretty poor. But he suffered terribly with his hands, even as an amateur. And his technique altered to alleviate this.

walshb wrote: »

Also, his punch technique was pretty poor. But he suffered terribly with his hands, even as an amateur. And his technique altered to alleviate this.

Why where they bad? answer-his bad technique wrecked them.

walshb wrote: »

I was waiting for that. Pavlik proved to be very beatable and one dimensional. Calzaghe would have eaten him alive.


Kessler was far more a challenge to Calzaghe than two blown up WW fighters were for a big natural MW like Bernard.

Anyway, when they did meet, Calzaghe beat Bernard. Calzaghe moved to LHW too. And Joe was every bit as past it as Bernard, if anyone wants to make the excuse that Bernard was past it.

I'd like to know what verison of Bhop that was not a shadow, would beat Calzaghe?

Bernard did not lose to Joe because he was a shadow of himself. He lost because Joe's style is wrong for him.

I just named good names, was not comparing them to Kessler.

The 1 i was comparing to Kessler was Pavlik as he was unbeaten and was going through people for fun-i firmly believe if Hopkins had bothered his hole like he did in the Pavlik fight he would have gone through Calzaghe-he lost a contentious decision even though he fought half hearted in the fight.

Calzaghe anyway you look at if fought 1, relevant good fighter in his career and that was Kessler who is/was just good, all the other names he fought where not relevant when he met them.

Eubank, RJJ, Bhop. No way you can say Calzaghe was just as shot as Bhop-Calzaghe retired at his best and could have fought Pavlik too but wanted no part of Pavlik even though the fans where calling for it.

Calzaghe would be just like Hatton if Hatton had not fought Pacman and Mayweather-difference is Joe fought 2 imposters who had legendary names.

cowzerp wrote: »

Why where they bad? answer-his bad technique wrecked them.
.

Possibly, but sometimes even correct punching can damage hands. Some fighters suffer terribly with their hands, technique or not. Barry did. Floyd did/does. Joe did too, worse than others, and was in a lot of pain from it. This must be considered.

walshb wrote: »

Possibly, but sometimes even correct punching can damage hands. Some fighters suffer terribly with their hands, technique or not

Yes i know that, But the way Joe punched was guaranteed to smash your hands up so doing that when your hands are damaged makes no sense-this is why his hands where damaged, he always slapped when he got frantic in fights.