Security at Dublin Port is a joke

kippy · 27-03-2012 01:48PM

Judgement Day wrote: »

Agreed, but that's for another thread and not in this forum.

Why is it not about this thread?

You've been given and idea by someone who claims to work there, the inside arrangements of security at the port.
You then state the country is awash with drugs and guns.
A poster points out to you we have 3000 miles of almost unpoliced coastline.
You still infer we are awash with guns and drugs because the port security is a joke and not because we have so much unpoliced coastline?

They are all linked and as such relevant to the conversation in my opinion.

Judgement Day · 27-03-2012 02:21PM

Dodge wrote: »

hang on, you're saying the Brits do a better job and then use drugs, firearms as your basis for this? Do you honestly believe there are less drugs and firearms (even per capita) on the streets of Britain compared to Ireland? Laughable. Keep using "awash" and other tabloid BS terms though.

As has been said above, increased/lack of security at ports has NOTHING to do with these issues.

I am concerned with lawlessness in Ireland and never said whether there are more drugs and firearms available here than in the UK, so I don't know where you got that from. I just love the way you dismiss tabloid BS terms - I rarely have read a tabloid newspaper but know one thing about them, they cover items that the 'great' broadsheets only touch on from time to time as their complacent middle class readership don't wish to acknowledge or hear about what goes on in the real Ireland. You only have to pick up a local newspaper to see for yourself but then there's none so blind as those that will not see.

Judgement Day · 27-03-2012 02:24PM

kippy wrote: »

Why is it not about this thread?

You've been given and idea by someone who claims to work there, the inside arrangements of security at the port.
You then state the country is awash with drugs and guns.
A poster points out to you we have 3000 miles of almost unpoliced coastline.
You still infer we are awash with guns and drugs because the port security is a joke and not because we have so much unpoliced coastline?

They are all linked and as such relevant to the conversation in my opinion.

No, I have not stated that the country is awash with guns and drugs because of port security but that is obviously part of the problem. This is the C+T Forum and that is why starting to discuss coastal protection, drug smuggling on our coastline is off - Forum.

Dodge · 27-03-2012 02:38PM

Judgement Day wrote: »

I am concerned with lawlessness in Ireland and never said whether there are more drugs and firearms available here than in the UK, so I don't know where you got that from

OK answer 2 questions

1) Who has stronger border controls (in your eyes) - Ireland/UK?
2) Who has a bigger problem with drugs/firearms - Ireland/UK?

Judgement Day · 27-03-2012 02:57PM

Dodge wrote: »

OK answer 2 questions

1) Who has stronger border controls (in your eyes) - Ireland/UK?
2) Who has a bigger problem with drugs/firearms - Ireland/UK?

1) The UK.
2) I haven't the faintest idea but I know we have a problem.

How about these two items relating to 2006/07 relating to homicides using firearms in the UK and Ireland. Crude but interesting.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6960431.stm
UK 2006/07 - 59 firearms related homicides

Ireland 2007 - 20 firearms related homicides
http://www.crimecouncil.gov.ie/statistics_cri_crime_murder.html

Given the respective populations I think I know which country had more per capita gun crime in 2007......Anyway that's my final contribution you'll no doubt be glad to hear.

seanmacc · 27-03-2012 03:34PM

Judgement Day wrote: »

Security isn't kept 'underwraps' as you put it - it's patchy to non-existent! What part of the news items about the x-ray scanner truck that spends half of its time on the road between Rosslare and Dublin do you not understand?? Clearly from reading some of the posts I'm am mistaken in my belief that Ireland is awash with illegal drugs, firearms etc. and in fact the customs/gardai etc. are doing a wonderful job (compared to the Brits) and we actually live in Utopia.

Its funny how things always go back to the Simpsons.

“Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.
Lisa: That’s specious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thank you, dear.
Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Oh, how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn’t work.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It’s just a stupid rock.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don’t see any tigers around, do you?
[Homer thinks of this, then pulls out some money]
Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.
[Lisa refuses at first, then takes the exchange]”

In reference to the Customs X-Ray machine? When its not in use they just break the seals on trucks and containers and search them manually. People do forget that a Customs officer can do more than a Garda

Capt'n Midnight · 27-03-2012 10:03PM

Suicide bombings could've been stopped ages ago if we'd just forced everyone to wear spandex.

"Uggghhhh My eyes, the goggles do nothing !"

Solair · 28-03-2012 02:23AM

Well, since the UK and Ireland effectively have no border, and there's no specific risk to security of the ferry itself - it's no more insecure than say a shopping centre or any other large building, I don't really see what the point of crazy levels of security would be.

Surely the best security is enhanced cooperation between police forces across the UK and Republic of Ireland ?

The CTA should really reflect a common shared border policy, rather than the current mess that it is. There shouldn't really be any need for security at Republic of Ireland - UK border interfaces, only at the external borders of the two countries, which are mostly airports.

Capt'n Midnight · 28-03-2012 10:16PM

Solair wrote: »

There shouldn't really be any need for security at Republic of Ireland - UK border interfaces, only at the external borders of the two countries, which are mostly airports.

Not too long ago in the overall scheme of things the border up north was quite intimidating. You entered a killing zone, slowly because of the barriers and talked over an intercom to hidden security personnel

people up north were banned from mainland UK

Judgement Day · 15-05-2012 01:51PM

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0515/breaking19.html

No further comment needed.

Paparazzo · 15-05-2012 02:44PM

Security at Dublin Airport is a joke. I was there about a month ago, an old couple had to go to the back of the queue because his 1 little bottle of aftershave wasn't in a clear plastic bag.
The plastic bag prevents terrorism.

kippy · 15-05-2012 04:32PM

Judgement Day wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0515/breaking19.html

No further comment needed.

Yep, all those jihadiest and terrorists getting through must have caused that audit to fail.

Did you hear yer man Veradkar on the radion today "aiport secutity must be at 100% - 99% is not enough!"

Paparazzo · 15-05-2012 08:56PM

kippy wrote: »

Yep, all those jihadiest and terrorists getting through must have caused that audit to fail.

Did you hear yer man Veradkar on the radion today "aiport secutity must be at 100% - 99% is not enough!"

That means anal cavity searches for all.
No one is going to hijack a plane from dublin airport. If you want to blow up our houses of parliament, a truck full of explosives outside the dail is 100 times easier. Taking peoples bottles of water off them is a complete joke.

January · 15-05-2012 10:09PM

Did anyone see the sign hanging off what used to be the Hurly Burly (now a rock climbing centre) heading south bound on the M50 just past the Finglas on ramp? It has three pictures, looks to be CCTV footage and says something like "Did you really think DAA wouldn't put CCTV here?!"

Paparazzo · 15-05-2012 11:31PM

January wrote: »

Did anyone see the sign hanging off what used to be the Hurly Burly (now a rock climbing centre) heading south bound on the M50 just past the Finglas on ramp? It has three pictures, looks to be CCTV footage and says something like "Did you really think DAA wouldn't put CCTV here?!"

Joe Duffy mentioned it today. He said stop calling him about it because it's not true

iprawn · 08-12-2012 04:08PM

Anybody know if i should chance bringing less then half an ounce of weed on the ferry from holyhead to dublin? what would happen if i got caught?

Capt'n Midnight · 08-12-2012 06:12PM

iprawn wrote: »

Anybody know if i should chance bringing less then half an ounce of weed on the ferry from holyhead to dublin? what would happen if i got caught?

There is a chance that it'll be legalised for medicinal purposes while you were still locked up :pac:

Boards is not a legal advice site.

seanmacc · 08-12-2012 07:58PM

iprawn wrote: »

Anybody know if i should chance bringing less then half an ounce of weed on the ferry from holyhead to dublin? what would happen if i got caught?

With a dog permenently in the Port of Holyhead and one regularly in Dublin the chances of getting caught are probably higher in Dublin Port than they are in the airport.
I've seen passengers regularly had their person and baggage pulled apart because the dog got a whiff of something and later transpired the passengers had nothing.
If you would risk it in the airport be my guest and go ahead and try it in Dublin Port. Just bear in mind that Revenue and Customs were probably the only departments in the state that go additional rescources since the economic collapse and have been very profficient latley in catching stuff coming in.

I'd say a better idea would be for you to grow your own.

Judgement Day · 08-12-2012 09:11PM

iprawn wrote: »

Anybody know if i should chance bringing less then half an ounce of weed on the ferry from holyhead to dublin? what would happen if i got caught?

PM me your arrival details and I'll pass them on.

quikquest · 08-12-2012 10:33PM

seanmacc wrote: »

As someone who works for a particular ferry company that operates in Dublin Port I would say that security is far from a joke. There is a totally different attitude to security in Ireland than there is in the UK. A lot of people from Britain, when they see layers upon layers of visible security measures like patting people down, checking ID, pulling apart bags and cars and have police with MP5's walking all over the place they actually feel safer and it gives the appearance of a water tight system. What you don't see in Dublin Port is a vast sophisticated camera system with vehicle registration reading software that covers around 90% of the port area.
What you don't see either is customs officers. Customs have a huge operation in Dublin Port and a lot of their officers walk around in plain clothing keeping an eye on who's going on the passenger ferries. Chances are that your checked in baggage has had the customs dog over it. Customs get advanced manifests of booked traffic (Cars, foot passengers and Freight) as well as the final manifest when the ship sails. This info is sent automatically to the Gardai also. There is also a very strong presence of plain clothes Gardai around the port.
During extraordinarily busy sailings the ferry companies do employ additional security, most of which is invisible on the ship.
The security measures you see in Holyhead are more so for show and are not really any more effective than those in Dublin Port.

Hi ,

I am just curious about the part "customs get a manifest of passengers etc"... So do customs know everytime I leave the country? Seems very Big Brother to me. And what do they do with this info?

The reason I am curious is because if they have these resources (and they SHOULD and its sent to the Gardai... how come if a child gets kidnapped or a car gets stolen and exported to the UK to be brought onto Europe... The guards don't seem to be able to find out? Surely if they have a database with passenger names and car details for bookings, they would be able to find this info right away?

I think they should have this and if they did it would be unreal in stopping/tracing stolen cars, dole tourists etc....

Also.. i know you work in the Port.... but I wonder do Airlines have this agreement with customs to forward manifests?

i.e people who claim dole in ireland and fly to the UK/France/Spain etc.

Thanks

L1011 · 08-12-2012 11:31PM

I've never seen a sniffer dog in the corralls when travelling by car on the ferries. Feck knows if they wander around the cars on the deck, not sure what they can smell through a steel/glass skin either though.

seanmacc · 09-12-2012 12:56AM

quikquest wrote: »

Hi ,

I am just curious about the part "customs get a manifest of passengers etc"... So do customs know everytime I leave the country? Seems very Big Brother to me. And what do they do with this info?

The reason I am curious is because if they have these resources (and they SHOULD and its sent to the Gardai... how come if a child gets kidnapped or a car gets stolen and exported to the UK to be brought onto Europe... The guards don't seem to be able to find out? Surely if they have a database with passenger names and car details for bookings, they would be able to find this info right away?

I think they should have this and if they did it would be unreal in stopping/tracing stolen cars, dole tourists etc....

Also.. i know you work in the Port.... but I wonder do Airlines have this agreement with customs to forward manifests?

i.e people who claim dole in ireland and fly to the UK/France/Spain etc.

Thanks

Depending on the ferry companies the manifest information is readily accessible to the Gardai, Department of Agriculture and Customs. Some companies forward it electronically automatically to the authorities after each sailing others the Customs Gardai ect will send someone down to the office to get it. Under the Data Protection Act these state bodies are allowed to get this info without much hassle. Its not so much a database they would have but more so a wad of pdf files.

When it comes to missing people, kidnappings ect. there is no requirement for the companies to collect passport info. Under the Common Travel Area once you are an Irish or UK resident you can travel to the UK unhindered. You can buy a ticket online and say your Michael Mouse and will be allowed travel, just expect that if you were to give a name like this that you will be met by someone in uniform who will scrutinize you. The only information that is fairly accurately taken is the vehicle registrations.

Customs generally use manifests to build intelligence on passengers who are up to no good and they do have closer links I believe with the UK customs, police and boarder force. They aren't there at the arrival of every sailing at all times during the year. They do get a big find every other day. I've noticed lately that they've had a massive focus on getting large amounts of cigarettes off Eastern Europeans driving back to Dublin.
Customs generally use the port to train their sniffer dogs in, at certain times of the year there is a dog there constantly for every sailing. Dublin Port is hardly a ring of steel but from some of the finds I've seen around the port in the past few months they are catching a hell of a lot more.

The airlines do share that information with the authorities. Having been detained briefly by US Immigration (Homeland Security) in Dublin airport last year there was a gentleman who was due to be on the same flight as myself who had a green card but had supposedly been living in Ireland. The agents were going through pages of manifests for the flights he said he supposedly left the US on. His green card was taken from him when they eventually discovered he'd been out of the US more than 8 months.

RATM · 09-12-2012 01:13AM

Del2005 wrote: »

The point is that no mater what level of security you put in place it will be circumvented if someone wants to.

The OTT security at airports is to make passengers feel comfortable flying rather than actually protecting the plane or passengers, since a plane can still be easily downed with hand carry items.

Couldn't agree more. I use the back road from Finglas to go to the airport quite a bit. It runs parallel with the runway and there are dozens of vantage spots where someone who wanted to blow up a plane could do so with a rocket launcher or RPG's- when they turn at the end taxiing and get set to do their take off run they are no more than 50m from the roadside and the only thing separating is a 2m high fence with a topping of barbed wire.

Dublin isn't unique in having runways very close to roads- you can get pretty close to the runways at Heathrow too and lots of plane spotters park up and watch them land and take off at close quarters.

All the sh1t we go through at airport security is just a futile waste of time. If a terrorist really wants to take a plane out they don't even have to be on the dam thing.

On the topic of Dublin port security I can relate a story from personal experience, one of a Garda who worked down there but drank a lot in a pub where I was a barman a few years back. Anyway the guy had a huge gambling problem, in the 10's of thousands. Thing was that he cashed his Garda cheque in the pub on payday and although he was paid very well a lot of things about his lifestyle, car, holiday homes, numerous holidays with a large family, etc and his huge debt (some of it owed to the pub) just didn't add up. A few of us who worked there got talking about it and another barman had seen him take envelopes from strangers on a couple of occasions. We were never going to find out if he was on the take to keep his eyes closed down at the port but there is no way his income was covering his outgoings.

I remember at the time googling about for major drug hauls at Dublin port and surprisingly they seem to be very few and far between. Same also goes for the Shannon Free Zone. In my mind it is a lot easier for a trafficker to use ferries than go to all the hassle of using yachts and high-powered ribs. I'm not saying 100% of drugs that come into Ireland come through the ports but there has to be a significant amount that is getting past the people who are supposed to be on the lookout for it

Victor · 09-12-2012 03:33AM

iprawn wrote: »

Anybody know if i should chance

No you shouldn't

We can't give you legal advice. so we are hardly going to give you advice on how to break the law.

Moderator.

Capt'n Midnight · 09-12-2012 03:32PM

RATM wrote: »

Dublin isn't unique in having runways very close to roads- you can get pretty close to the runways at Heathrow too and lots of plane spotters park up and watch them land and take off at close quarters.

All the sh1t we go through at airport security is just a futile waste of time. If a terrorist really wants to take a plane out they don't even have to be on the dam thing.

Remember this ? http://www.nytimes.com/1994/03/14/world/ira-forces-2-hour-closing-of-london-airports.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

In the morning, Heathrow airport was hit by another mortar attack, the third in five days, but the four shells that struck did not explode and no injuries or damage were reported.
...
The British security services, stung by criticism that they had not taken sufficient precautions during the attacks Wednesday evening and Friday morning, activated a full alert plan

Thing about security nowadays is that things like CCTV are used afterwards to track backwards, just because you get through doesn't mean they won't come looking for you later on.

There is a lot more known about profiling, more clues are known. For example if you are a bodyguard you don't have to worry as much about the red-faced angry shouters as for the pale faced person who is really scared about what they are nerving themselves up to do.

quikquest · 09-12-2012 07:47PM

seanmacc wrote: »

Depending on the ferry companies the manifest information is readily accessible to the Gardai, Department of Agriculture and Customs. Some companies forward it electronically automatically to the authorities after each sailing others the Customs Gardai ect will send someone down to the office to get it. Under the Data Protection Act these state bodies are allowed to get this info without much hassle. Its not so much a database they would have but more so a wad of pdf files.

When it comes to missing people, kidnappings ect. there is no requirement for the companies to collect passport info. Under the Common Travel Area once you are an Irish or UK resident you can travel to the UK unhindered. You can buy a ticket online and say your Michael Mouse and will be allowed travel, just expect that if you were to give a name like this that you will be met by someone in uniform who will scrutinize you. The only information that is fairly accurately taken is the vehicle registrations.

Customs generally use manifests to build intelligence on passengers who are up to no good and they do have closer links I believe with the UK customs, police and boarder force. They aren't there at the arrival of every sailing at all times during the year. They do get a big find every other day. I've noticed lately that they've had a massive focus on getting large amounts of cigarettes off Eastern Europeans driving back to Dublin.
Customs generally use the port to train their sniffer dogs in, at certain times of the year there is a dog there constantly for every sailing. Dublin Port is hardly a ring of steel but from some of the finds I've seen around the port in the past few months they are catching a hell of a lot more.

The airlines do share that information with the authorities. Having been detained briefly by US Immigration (Homeland Security) in Dublin airport last year there was a gentleman who was due to be on the same flight as myself who had a green card but had supposedly been living in Ireland. The agents were going through pages of manifests for the flights he said he supposedly left the US on. His green card was taken from him when they eventually discovered he'd been out of the US more than 8 months.

Thanks for that.

I actually can't believe how when cars get stolen and people are responded with "ahh sure its probably on a ferry by now" by the guards, that they don't actually go and find out if it WAS on a ferry and to where. At least then it would save people keeping an eye out for it and they know its gone.

I am also surprised that Revenue don't use this info to catch out people who are claiming the dole yet can go on holidays multiple times or work abroad. Match their name and passport number an bang cut them off.

Thanks

BlatentCheek · 09-12-2012 08:00PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

people up north were banned from mainland UK

Really I never heard of that (and I'm not saying that because I doubt you).
I take it you mean specific people, did they have to be convicted of a crime first, was it perhaps part of a recognizance on which they were released from prison?

I would have thought such restrictions on a persons movements within a country would be difficult to defend on legal and constitutional grounds, and probably would run foul of some international agreements the UK would be bound by

Victor · 09-12-2012 08:38PM

quikquest wrote: »

I actually can't believe how when cars get stolen and people are responded with "ahh sure its probably on a ferry by now" by the guards, that they don't actually go and find out if it WAS on a ferry and to where. At least then it would save people keeping an eye out for it and they know its gone.

If a vehicle is stolen, you don't think the thief will be driving it around / exporting it on the same registration, do you?

BlatentCheek wrote: »

Really I never heard of that (and I'm not saying that because I doubt you).
I take it you mean specific people, did they have to be convicted of a crime first, was it perhaps part of a recognizance on which they were released from prison?

I would have thought such restrictions on a persons movements within a country would be difficult to defend on legal and constitutional grounds, and probably would run foul of some international agreements the UK would be bound by

The Prevention of Terrorism Act allowed exclusion of Northern Ireland residents from Britain. The list of people subject to such orders was somewhat limited - I think about 100 people.

This was a legacy of The Troubles (it may have also been implemented in the 1940s). It was preventative, not responsive, so no conviction was required.

No legal and constitutional problems - it was allowed for in law and in the UK, parliament is sovereign.

http://www.google.ie/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=Prevention+of+Terrorism+Act+allowed+exclusion+of+Northern+Ireland+residents+from+Britain&btnG=

BlatentCheek · 09-12-2012 10:05PM

Interesting, cheers for that

james142 · 09-12-2012 10:10PM

Thats how good Irish customs are, they are watching you but without ya knowing

Security at Dublin Port is a joke

Comments