Security at Dublin Port is a joke

scudzilla

Not sure if this is the right forum or not.

I travel back to Wales to see the family quite a bit and am astounded at how poor Security is at Dublin Port. I go over maybe once ever other month, sometimes as a foot passenger, sometimes in the car.

When i arrive at Holyhead in my Car there is always police and customs waiting just after you've checked in, they pull a lot of drivers over and give them the once over. When i drive from Dublin port there is nothing, just check in and drive straight onto the boat.

On arrival in Dublin it's just a case of driving off and out of the port, in the past 24 months i've not seen one vehicle checked, not even seen anybody standing watching cars coming off. When i drive off in Holyhead there are always Police/Customs randomly checking vehicles.

As a foot passenger it's just as bad, if not worse.

When i go from Holyhead i check in, put my bags through an X-Ray machine then there's about 4 police/customs people checking passengers, Getting on the boat in Dublin you just check in, throw your bag (unchecked) onto the conveyor belt, and walk onto the boat!!!

Getting off in Holyhead i'm met by, maybe 3 or 4 police/customs and the occasional sniffer dog, all doing random checks, getting off at Dublin and there's a couple of Gardai just asking what nationality you are!!

Surely this is a huge security risk for Ireland, anybody could get on in Dublin with a bomb in there suitcase and have it detonate half way across the sea. Not only that how many 'Illegal' immigrants can get into the country in a vehicle??

Cookie_Monster

So the Welsh check for us what's coming in and we don't give a **** about what's leaving, where's the problem?

dMaN24

Have you tried to actually bring something illegal over?

They have control, just not up in your face.
Same with the airport.

littlejp

scudzilla wrote: »

Surely this is a huge security risk for Ireland, anybody could get on in Dublin with a bomb in there suitcase and have it detonate half way across the sea. Not only that how many 'Illegal' immigrants can get into the country in a vehicle??

Why would anyone blow up a ferry in the Irish Sea?

Maybe the Welsh are doing such a good job their end, they don't need to put much effort in this end.

scudzilla

littlejp wrote: »

Why would anyone blow up a ferry in the Irish Sea?

That's what i thought about 2 rather large buildings in NYC 15yrs ago

mickydoomsux

scudzilla wrote: »

That's what i thought about 2 rather large buildings in NYC 15yrs ago

Someone is going to fly an passenger jet into a ferry?

littlejp

scudzilla wrote: »

littlejp wrote: »

Why would anyone blow up a ferry in the Irish Sea?

That's what i thought about 2 rather large buildings in NYC 15yrs ago

You knew/thought about 9/11 4 years before it happened? :O

Bit of a difference in skyscrapers in Manhattan and the Irish Sea.

User Friendly

Scudzilla has bought into the be afraid, terrorism ****e

aujopimur

The real security checks are done well out of sight and away from the port.

Judgement Day

Of course security is a joke at Dublin Port - has been for all the years I have travelled through it. Why is anybody surprised, remember this: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hijacker-no-threat-to-dublin-airport-292236.html

or this from last year: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/unnamed-activist-group-claims-damage-of-us-plane-178365.html

which followed on from the 2003 attack: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/taxpayers-bill-for-jet-attack-hits-4m-221631.html

Jesus, what would the State do if real terrorists decide to attack us? Life most things in this country security is done in a half arsed way and one day it will come back to bite us.

noelfirl

You never know when the Welsh separatists might pop up with their Daffy bombs.

hidinginthebush

Isn't there "free travel" between Ireland and Britain? Surely that's a factor in this.

dardhal

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Someone is going to fly an passenger jet into a ferry?

No, but someone with nothing to loose could plant a bomb car in the lower ferry deck, make it blast, and have some hundreds of people drown in the middle of the freezing open ocean with little former planning. Not saying that there are no controls or that we should live in a state of permanent panic just in case, but the fact is there are bad guys out there, or simply people beyond breaking point, that can easily wreak havoc if they loose their mind.

ArmaniJeanss

dardhal wrote: »

No, but someone with nothing to loose could plant a bomb car in the lower ferry deck, make it blast, and have some hundreds of people drown in the middle of the freezing open ocean with little former planning. Not saying that there are no controls or that we should live in a state of permanent panic just in case, but the fact is there are bad guys out there, or simply people beyond breaking point, that can easily wreak havoc if they loose their mind.

A boat is an incredibly easy target.
For an airplane you can concentrate the security at the airport (xRay scanners and the like) and make it close to 100% secure.

Whereas the same (hugely expensive) level of security is pointless for a boat as the it's biggest vulnerability is in the open sea - its fairly easy to get close to any boat and do a huge amount of damage with a handheld rocket or a few grenades.

So there's little or no point in doing airport style levels of security at a ferry terminal. That the UK choose to do so shouldn't influence us to do something so illogical.

Victor

Judgement Day wrote: »

Of course security is a joke at Dublin Port - has been for all the years I have travelled through it. Why is anybody surprised, remember this: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hijacker-no-threat-to-dublin-airport-292236.html

I'd not heard of it. Note that he was a taxi hi-jacker, not an aircraft hi-jacker.

latenia

dardhal wrote: »

No, but someone with nothing to loose could plant a bomb car in the lower ferry deck, make it blast, and have some hundreds of people drown in the middle of the freezing open ocean with little former planning.

A bomb big enough to sink a ferry before it made it back to port or before a full evacuation could be carried out would never make it aboard. Someone else mentioned hanheld grenades or rockets which is just ridiculous-they'd barely scuttle a fishing boat.
Islamic terrorism is on the wane anyway so why are you afraid of something that's about as likely to happen as a tsunami toppling the ship?

Cookie_Monster

Ferries aren't really good terrorist targets, no point in hijacking it, can't really crash it into anything to make a scene in a short enough timescale. Blowing it up is difficult to do quickly too, you'd need a massive bomb to make a big enough hole to sink it quickly enough to kill people

ps there's a maritime forum for this now

ArmaniJeanss

latenia wrote: »

Someone else mentioned handheld grenades or rockets which is just ridiculous-they'd barely scuttle a fishing boat.

It was me.
To be honest I wasn't talking in terms of actually sinking a big ferry - more in terms of causing loss of life, general terror, etc. Which can be done without ever being on the ship, as its a big target which is relatively easy to get close to. As opposed to an airplane which is an almost impossible target once its taken off.

So therefore imo having post911 airport style security in a ferry terminal would be kind of pointless?

Judgement Day

latenia wrote: »

A bomb big enough to sink a ferry before it made it back to port or before a full evacuation could be carried out would never make it aboard. Someone else mentioned hanheld grenades or rockets which is just ridiculous-they'd barely scuttle a fishing boat.
Islamic terrorism is on the wane anyway so why are you afraid of something that's about as likely to happen as a tsunami toppling the ship?

Care to enlighten the rest of us of where you're getting your information from? :rolleyes:

AlekSmart

It's difficult if not impossible to plan a reasonable approach to violent lunacy.

If a psychopath,motivated by whatever demons inhabit their mind at any given moment,decides to visit death and destruction upon us then we have to deal with it as it occurs.

The issues rest with ourselves,the non-loonies,who have to decide just how much individual freedom to sacrifice in order to contain wild-eyed raving lunatics.

For example,the Toulouse killer Mr Merah,drags an 8 year old girl by her hair and has to re-arm himself in order to discharge a large caliber firearm into her head....does anybody realistically expect increased security at Dublin Port would prevent an Irish Merah from doing the same ?

However the real issue for us all,lies more with the statement today from Mr Merahs brother,Abdelkader....

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/french-serial-killer-had-20-bullet-wounds-after-gunfight-3060027.html

Merah's older brother, Abdelkader (29) told police: "I am very proud of my brother. I regret nothing for him and I approve of what he did."

The real challenge for us all is to resist the urge to erect peace-fences,minefields and such tangible barriers as suggested by the OP and get out and live our lives as freely as we can ?

Del2005

scudzilla wrote: »

Not sure if this is the right forum or not.

I travel back to Wales to see the family quite a bit and am astounded at how poor Security is at Dublin Port. I go over maybe once ever other month, sometimes as a foot passenger, sometimes in the car.

When i arrive at Holyhead in my Car there is always police and customs waiting just after you've checked in, they pull a lot of drivers over and give them the once over. When i drive from Dublin port there is nothing, just check in and drive straight onto the boat.

On arrival in Dublin it's just a case of driving off and out of the port, in the past 24 months i've not seen one vehicle checked, not even seen anybody standing watching cars coming off. When i drive off in Holyhead there are always Police/Customs randomly checking vehicles.

As a foot passenger it's just as bad, if not worse.

When i go from Holyhead i check in, put my bags through an X-Ray machine then there's about 4 police/customs people checking passengers, Getting on the boat in Dublin you just check in, throw your bag (unchecked) onto the conveyor belt, and walk onto the boat!!!

Getting off in Holyhead i'm met by, maybe 3 or 4 police/customs and the occasional sniffer dog, all doing random checks, getting off at Dublin and there's a couple of Gardai just asking what nationality you are!!

Surely this is a huge security risk for Ireland, anybody could get on in Dublin with a bomb in there suitcase and have it detonate half way across the sea. Not only that how many 'Illegal' immigrants can get into the country in a vehicle??

I had the other way. Going out of Dublin my bag and helmet where scanned on the xray machine and I was made walk through the metal detector, I was picking a bike up at Holyhead. Walked off the boat past a shed load of UK customs and police, but no one was stopped. On the way back I just drove straight onto the boat with no checks, never got checked when I went through French ports.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

It was me.
To be honest I wasn't talking in terms of actually sinking a big ferry - more in terms of causing loss of life, general terror, etc. Which can be done without ever being on the ship, as its a big target which is relatively easy to get close to.

It would be much easier to just walk into a town/shopping centre with a bomb in a bag and walk out. Why would a terrorist go for a hard target, a ferry is relatively difficult to attack, when you have loads of easy targets outside their front door

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

As opposed to an airplane which is an almost impossible target once its taken off.

Planes can be easily gotten from the ground, look up hire powered lasers and planes. If you really wanted too it wouldn't be take hard to stick a heavy machine gun into the back of a van, park it at the end of a runway and blow a fully loaded 747 up on takeoff.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

So therefore imo having post911 airport style security in a ferry terminal would be kind of pointless?

To be honest post 911 security in airports is pointless also. There are so many ways of bringing down a plane, the restrictions are just a con to fool people into thinking that they aren't in danger.

corktina

You may not see much security, but you don't know how much they see of you.

Please don't be asking for MORE security, it's OTT as it is in some places.Or do you want to start fining people for bringing in an apple like in Aus?

n900guy

hidinginthebush wrote: »

Isn't there "free travel" between Ireland and Britain? Surely that's a factor in this.

The UK wants to remain outside of the Schengen agreement. The area includes Ireland; the Common Travel Area is not a legislated area, but simply the area that Schengen doesn't apply - and it's only between UK and Ireland. From a transportation and passport perspective, the UK (Britain) doesn't view Ireland as a separate nation, and vice versa from our government's perspective.

The vast majority of illegals in Ireland come from the UK; more from Northern Ireland by road than from Wales by boat.

Irish security policy is set 100% by the UK. The only time the CTA was ever put into legislation with respect to "passport free travel" is when Schengen was written. There is no UK or Ireland statute guaranteeing passport free travel AFAIK; merely the lack of a need of passport when travelling between Britain and Ireland and that this area common to both islands remains outside Schengen.

MarkK

n900guy wrote: »

Irish security policy is set 100% by the UK.

You may aswell say that UK security policy is 100% set by Ireland, the open border goes both ways you know!

n900guy wrote: »

There is no UK or Ireland statute guaranteeing passport free travel AFAIK; merely the lack of a need of passport when travelling between Britain and Ireland and that this area common to both islands remains outside Schengen.

Only UK and Irish citizens don't need a passport, everyone else is required to carry one.

Judgement Day

corktina wrote: »

You may not see much security, but you don't know how much they see of you.

Please don't be asking for MORE security, it's OTT as it is in some places.Or do you want to start fining people for bringing in an apple like in Aus?

I do and I'm happy to admit it. Everybody passing in and out of the country should be required to carry a passport, it's pure stupidity the way things currently stand. People with serious criminal convictions -such as Larry Murphy http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=77679974 should be unable to travel freely throughout Europe - they should be unable to obtain passports. It is wishy washy, hand wringing, liberal, pinko policies that have this, and other countries, awash with ne'er-do-wells and it's not political correct to mention it.

kippy

Honestly,
I think the security at ports is adequate, there could be more checks of cargo etc but I dont actually know how much of that goes on so it may not be a fair point.

However, the bigger issue is this.
If you are a person wishing to evade the authorities to:
A. Bring something illegal into the country.
B. Bring yourself, undocumented into the country.
or any other form of illegalness,
Why would you get on a passenger ferry?

We have three and a half thousand miles of coastline, hundreds and hundreds of sheltered beaches and bays, and good knows how many square miles of sea.
And it's policed by:
Maybe 6 or 7 navy boats and a few coast guard boats, if at all.

If you want to "feel more secure" and are one who feels more secure at ports with more visible security, think of that I mentioned above, and ask yourself if someone really wanted to blow up a passenger ferry, do you think they would do it from the inside?

A criminal with access to a boat, speed or otherwise, could be in or out of Ireland in a few hours if they so wanted.

Judgement Day

kippy wrote: »

Honestly,
I think the security at ports is adequate, there could be more checks of cargo etc but I dont actually know how much of that goes on so it may not be a fair point.

However, the bigger issue is this.
If you are a person wishing to evade the authorities to:
A. Bring something illegal into the country.
B. Bring yourself, undocumented into the country.
or any other form of illegalness,
Why would you get on a passenger ferry?

We have three and a half thousand miles of coastline, hundreds and hundreds of sheltered beaches and bays, and good knows how many square miles of sea.
And it's policed by:
Maybe 6 or 7 navy boats and a few coast guard boats, if at all.

If you want to "feel more secure" and are one who feels more secure at ports with more visible security, think of that I mentioned above, and ask yourself if someone really wanted to blow up a passenger ferry, do you think they would do it from the inside?

A criminal with access to a boat, speed or otherwise, could be in or out of Ireland in a few hours if they so wanted.

Should we add a poll to this thread? You fit into the handwringing lobby - the problem is too big so we'll do nothing about it.

kippy

Judgement Day wrote: »

Should we add a poll to this thread? You fit into the handwringing lobby - the problem is too big so we'll do nothing about it.

Not at all,
The point I and others are making, is that there is security at ports (none of us know how much, security doesnt have to be visible to be effective), if you want the airport style security, (in your face, scanners, etc etc) you need to ask yourself what are you trying to do, what the impact will be upon your customers and running costs, and is this level of security warranted?

I'd be happier if the time was spent reviewing our coastal security resources. I have no idea who or what gets into or out of the country through those means and I am in now way satisified we have put enough resources towards it.

There's no point locking the windows if the front door is open, with a sign pointing to it.

Del2005

kippy wrote: »

The point I and others are making, is that there is security at ports (none of us know how much, security doesnt have to be visible to be effective), if you want the airport style security, (in your face, scanners, etc etc) you need to ask yourself what are you trying to do, what the impact will be upon your customers and running costs, and is this level of security warranted?

The point is that no mater what level of security you put in place it will be circumvented if someone wants to.

The OTT security at airports is to make passengers feel comfortable flying rather than actually protecting the plane or passengers, since a plane can still be easily downed with hand carry items.

kippy

Del2005 wrote: »

The point is that no mater what level of security you put in place it will be circumvented if someone wants to.

The OTT security at airports is to make passengers feel comfortable flying rather than actually protecting the plane or passengers, since a plane can still be easily downed with hand carry items.

I agree, that is what I said, although it may have been a bit long winded.

parsi

I went foot passenger between Portsmouth ad St Malo one year. We had to go through airport style security and a yachting had his knife taken off him.

These knives were on sale on the ferry. Vehicle passengers were free to bring canteens of cutlery in their cars.

Made no sense to me.

Judgement Day

Del2005 wrote: »

The point is that no mater what level of security you put in place it will be circumvented if someone wants to.

The OTT security at airports is to make passengers feel comfortable flying rather than actually protecting the plane or passengers, since a plane can still be easily downed with hand carry items.

So do you fit into the handwringing category?

charlemont

The H&M Customs in Holyhead caught me years ago with Weed, Only personal use though so I got the next ferry home.

Cookie_Monster

Judgement Day wrote: »

So do you fit into the handwringing category?

do you fit into the "OMG, terrorists are everywhere" category? Most airport security is pointless, you can still bring items on a plane that can take it down with little difficulty after all, laptop batteries being the most obvious. They will not stop anyone determined to blow up / hijack a plane.

Judgement Day

I sure do belong to the OMG the Fifth columnists are everywhere and if I had it within my power do something about it I would. No point in my rehashing my views but I am an unashamed member of the hang 'em, shoot 'em and flog 'em brigade.

Cookie_Monster

Judgement Day wrote: »

I sure do belong to the OMG the Fifth columnists are everywhere and if I had it within my power do something about it I would. No point in my rehashing my views but I am an unashamed member of the hang 'em, shoot 'em and flog 'em brigade.

excessive security everywhere is not the answer to that though, proper sentencing and deterrents are, ie catch the ****ers and shoot them and make it blindingly obvious to any potential wrongdoers they are in for a world of **** if even caught planning the slightest dodgy thing. The more properly resourced policing and background security you have for that the less need for all the BS everyone has to go through at the likes of airports.

I certainly believe having officers with machine guns strolling round Heathrow is a far more effective deterrent than stopping people with bottles of water and scissors...

bk

I'm really surprised any Irish person would buy into the whole "Security Theatre" thing.

On the island of Ireland we had real continuous terrorism for 30 years, with fully armed soldiers and armed personal carriers patrolling the streets of Northern Ireland, gunship helicopters in the air and army bases with massive gun towers all over the north monitoring every movement and even with all that it never stopped the terrorism from happening.

So knowing all this, how could any Irish person buy into "security theatre"?

The whole extra airport security thing has no real benefit in stopping terrorists. Literally thousands of guns are either accidentally or purposefully (for testing) snuck onto US flights every year!! The increased security hasn't stopped a single terrorist. It didn't stop the shoe or pants bombers, vigilant passengers did.

The extra security is only there for psychological purposes, to make people feel more safe about flying. It really wont stop any terrorism.

So no, there is really no need for ridiculous security measures at ports. Anyway the security at ports is directed at stopping illegal immigrants, criminals trying to leave the country and drug smuggling. Ferries really aren't considered a high threat terrorism target. They are just far too difficult to sink.

The greatest threat of terrorism in US and UK ports is actually containers. The real fear most security analysts have is some nut job terrorist shipping a nuclear dirty bomb into a UK or US port in a standard transport container.

Del2005

Judgement Day wrote: »

So do you fit into the handwringing category?

Nope

bk wrote: »

I'm really surprised any Irish person would buy into the whole "Security Theatre" thing.

On the island of Ireland we had real continuous terrorism for 30 years, with fully armed soldiers and armed personal carriers patrolling the streets of Northern Ireland, gunship helicopters in the air and army bases with massive gun towers all over the north monitoring every movement and even with all that it never stopped the terrorism from happening.

So knowing all this, how could any Irish person buy into "security theatre"?

The whole extra airport security thing has no real benefit in stopping terrorists. Literally thousands of guns are either accidentally or purposefully (for testing) snuck onto US flights every year!! The increased security hasn't stopped a single terrorist. It didn't stop the shoe or pants bombers, vigilant passengers did.

The extra security is only there for psychological purposes, to make people feel more safe about flying. It really wont stop any terrorism.

So no, there is really no need for ridiculous security measures at ports. Anyway the security at ports is directed at stopping illegal immigrants, criminals trying to leave the country and drug smuggling. Ferries really aren't considered a high threat terrorism target. They are just far too difficult to sink.

The greatest threat of terrorism in US and UK ports is actually containers. The real fear most security analysts have is some nut job terrorist shipping a nuclear dirty bomb into a UK or US port in a standard transport container.

+1

Judgement Day

bk wrote: »

I'm really surprised any Irish person would buy into the whole "Security Theatre" thing.

On the island of Ireland we had real continuous terrorism for 30 years, with fully armed soldiers and armed personal carriers patrolling the streets of Northern Ireland, gunship helicopters in the air and army bases with massive gun towers all over the north monitoring every movement and even with all that it never stopped the terrorism from happening.

So knowing all this, how could any Irish person buy into "security theatre"?

The whole extra airport security thing has no real benefit in stopping terrorists. Literally thousands of guns are either accidentally or purposefully (for testing) snuck onto US flights every year!! The increased security hasn't stopped a single terrorist. It didn't stop the shoe or pants bombers, vigilant passengers did.

The extra security is only there for psychological purposes, to make people feel more safe about flying. It really wont stop any terrorism.

So no, there is really no need for ridiculous security measures at ports. Anyway the security at ports is directed at stopping illegal immigrants, criminals trying to leave the country and drug smuggling. Ferries really aren't considered a high threat terrorism target. They are just far too difficult to sink.

The greatest threat of terrorism in US and UK ports is actually containers. The real fear most security analysts have is some nut job terrorist shipping a nuclear dirty bomb into a UK or US port in a standard transport container.

Any links to back up the above or is it just hearsay? Incidentally, I totally agree that the threat posed by shipping containers is far the most worrying but that is also dealt with in the same lackadaisical manner by the authorities here. The Customs with their one x-ray scanner truck which is rotated between the ports is beyond a joke as any serious smuggler/terror group would have no difficulty in establishing its location. Slightly poor journalistic report here on tenders for new scanner vans: http://www.irishtrucker.com/news/new-x-ray-van-to-combat-illegal-imports-008682

Another point, you say increased security hasn't prevented any attacks - how on earth do you know that? Every person picked up because of airport/port security doesn't make the 9 o'clock news!! We only get to hear about the successful evaders - 9/11 etc.

bk

Judgement Day wrote: »

Any links to back up the above or is it just hearsay?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_Security_Administration#Covert_security_tests.3B_gaming_and_failures

20 out of 22 tests failed.

Judgement Day wrote: »

The Customs with their one x-ray scanner truck which is rotated between the ports is beyond a joke as any serious smuggler/terror group would have no difficulty in establishing its location.

But lets be honest, Ireland is definitely not a target for a terrorist dirt bomb. US and UK maybe, but not Ireland. Lets be realistic here.

Judgement Day wrote: »

Another point, you say increased security hasn't prevented any attacks - how on earth do you know that? Every person picked up because of airport/port security doesn't make the 9 o'clock news!! We only get to hear about the successful evaders - 9/11 etc.

Because you can guarantee that any real terrorist threat stopped by the TSA would be promoted all over the media. The TSA are getting a lot of bad PR in the US, they would love to have some good news for a change and would shout about it from the highest rooftops if they did.

Again the TSA didn't catch either the shoe bomber or the pants bomber. Vigilant passengers did.

The problem with airport security is that it totally ignores the many other ways to bring down a plane. Such as parking a heavy machine gun or shoulder launched missile at the end of the runway. Fun fact the area around Tel Aviv airport is restricted for just this reason. It is heavily patrolled by soldiers and the road into the area has an armed checkpoints and searches. Another fun fact, they have no problem with you carrying a bottle of water onto a plane in Tel Aviv, probably the most secure airport in the world, but they make you dump the same bottle when transferring in Paris.

And even if you create perfect security, nothing to stop a bunch of guys from walking into the airport and setting off a bomb or a couple of AK-47's and a couple of grenades in the security line, killing many people. This exact thing happened in Tel Aviv in 1978. Improve security at the airport, well just do the same at a school or a shopping center or a sports event.

Security is hard and costs a lot of money. You always need to balance the cost of it with the realistic change of an actual attack happening. And exactly what terrorist group are we a target for here in Ireland?

I'm really surprised an Irish person (I'm assuming you are Irish JD) doesn't understand this.

dowlingm

Israeli security works on a whole different level. They don't look at what you're carrying, they look at YOU. The profiling techniques they use are those you can get away with when your country is in a perpetual state of emergency and not too concerned about what civil liberties groups have to say about it. The trade off in the rest of the West for trying to be... um... colour blind is the patting down of 6 year olds. It's one of those things there is no "right answer" to until we all wake up one day and stop killing each other for stupid reasons.

purplepanda

bk wrote: »

But lets be honest, Ireland is definitely not a target for a terrorist dirt bomb. US and UK maybe, but not Ireland. Lets be realistic here.

I'm really surprised an Irish person (I'm assuming you are Irish JD) doesn't understand this.

Amazing how many Irish people seem to believe that a terrorist attack couldn't happen!!!! There will be some radical islamic extremists that consider Ireland to have aided the US military & it's allies by allowing the use of it's airspace, & a landing base & facilties at Shannon airport. That is threat enough for security to be vigilant IMO.

I

Capt'n Midnight

TBH the I'm more nervous in the queues leading up to security checks it's the most people you will get in one place.

bk wrote: »

The greatest threat of terrorism in US and UK ports is actually containers. The real fear most security analysts have is some nut job terrorist shipping a nuclear dirty bomb into a UK or US port in a standard transport container.

Depending on who you believe the North Koreans already have a few stashed in the states.:pac:

Ireland has had restrictions on sales of certain types of fertilizer and dry cleaning solvents for a very long time.

But in other countries you could easily fill a container park with ANFO

http://www.explosives.org/index.php/component/content/article?id=69

In the US and Canada alone, blasters use more than 6 billion pounds of explosives and 75 million detonators per year. Coal mining accounts for two-thirds of consumed explosives of which more than 80% of it is ANFO.

6 billion pounds = 2.7 million tons
that's about 20,000 Hiroshimas

bk

dowlingm wrote: »

Israeli security works on a whole different level. They don't look at what you're carrying, they look at YOU.

Actually they take a very close look at what you carry too.

Last time I went through there, they make you open your laptop and put it through a massive x-ray machine, on it's own.

They then make you open your bag and they spend about 15 minutes wiping down every hard surface in your bag (shows, bag itself, outside of the water bottle) with a cloth that they constantly place under a chemical/bomb sensor machine.

All the time the person is asking questions about where you were, where you are going, etc.

At least the people doing this are pretty young girls, I assume doing their military duty

That is real tight security, if US and European airports were as serious, then they would make you do the same, which they don't, so it is obvious they just do enough to make you "feel" safe when it is mostly ineffective.

The only real way to stop terrorism is through intelligence gathering and monitoring people of interest.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be any security at the airport, the pre 9/11 levels of security were perfectly adequate. But all the new procedures like making you take your shoes off, no liquids, full body scanners, etc. add no extra reasonable security.

But is Islamic terrorism a real threat we have to worry about in Ireland? Tell me so how many millions extra do you think we should spend on extra security? And even if we were to spend millions more, would that stop a terrorist going on a shooting rampage in a school like we saw in France last week?

Carawaystick

Judgement Day wrote: »

I do and I'm happy to admit it. Everybody passing in and out of the country should be required to carry a passport, it's pure stupidity the way things currently stand. People with serious criminal convictions -such as Larry Murphy http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=77679974 should be unable to travel freely throughout Europe - they should be unable to obtain passports. It is wishy washy, hand wringing, liberal, pinko policies that have this, and other countries, awash with ne'er-do-wells and it's not political correct to mention it.

So where would you have the passport checks between Belcoo and Blacklion? or Strabane and Lifford? or Between Jonesboro and Carrickcarnan?

I thought the likes of rapists being in jail prevented them travelling freely through europe.
Citizens of mainland europe states don't need any passports to travel in the schengen area. If they lived in Baarle-Naassau, they might not even know which country they were in at any point on the street.

Where would you draw the line at preventing a citizen from getting a passport? for traffic offences? not paying their household charge? How about Tony Blair or Asthma al Assad? both complicit in mass murder, but not convicted of it.

Judgement Day

Carawaystick wrote: »

So where would you have the passport checks between Belcoo and Blacklion? or Strabane and Lifford? or Between Jonesboro and Carrickcarnan?

I thought the likes of rapists being in jail prevented them travelling freely through europe.
Citizens of mainland europe states don't need any passports to travel in the schengen area. If they lived in Baarle-Naassau, they might not even know which country they were in at any point on the street.

Where would you draw the line at preventing a citizen from getting a passport? for traffic offences? not paying their household charge? How about Tony Blair or Asthma al Assad? both complicit in mass murder, but not convicted of it.

Why are you quoting EU babble at me - I never said that EU citizens needed passports for internal travel but they damn well should! I travelled for years before the present travel regime came into force and carrying a passport was never a problem for me. Due to the present lack of border controls we haven't a bull's notion who is in the country and don't quote the 2011 census at me please! As for convicted rapists - Larry Murphy served his sentence and was released but I don't think that he should be allowed to travel outside this country - you obviously do?

If Tony Blair is found guilty of mass murder I would expect him to be locked up and not free to travel so I don't see what you're driving at.

I'm not hung up on the issue of mass murderers, rapists or terrorists in particular but I think we need to tighten up our overall security big time - as I think do many ordinary members of the public - as opposed to the minority i.e. liberal, hand wringing etc. members of the media and chattering classes.

Carawaystick

Judgement Day wrote: »

Why are you quoting EU babble at me - I never said that EU citizens needed passports for internal travel but they damn well should! I travelled for years before the present travel regime came into force and carrying a passport was never a problem for me. Due to the present lack of border controls we haven't a bull's notion who is in the country and don't quote the 2011 census at me please! As for convicted rapists - Larry Murphy served his sentence and was released but I don't think that he should be allowed to travel outside this country - you obviously do?

If Tony Blair is found guilty of mass murder I would expect him to be locked up and not free to travel so I don't see what you're driving at.

I'm not hung up on the issue of mass murderers, rapists or terrorists in particular but I think we need to tighten up our overall security big time - as I think do many ordinary members of the public - as opposed to the minority i.e. liberal, hand wringing etc. members of the media and chattering classes.

Last year the Dept of Foreign Affairs went on strike and no one could get a passport in time. Would you really like to see families prevented joining up where they were meeting other family members in the 6 counties? or if they were too skint to get a passport after the govt feiced the country up? I notice you avoided the whole border issue.

Why do you think it's alright for serious criminals to be loose in this country but not to go abroad?

Do you think the same security should be in place for internal (non-international) ferries?

Judgement Day

Carawaystick wrote: »

Last year the Dept of Foreign Affairs went on strike and no one could get a passport in time. Would you really like to see families prevented joining up where they were meeting other family members in the 6 counties? or if they were too skint to get a passport after the govt feiced the country up? I notice you avoided the whole border issue.

Why do you think it's alright for serious criminals to be loose in this country but not to go abroad?

Do you think the same security should be in place for internal (non-international) ferries?

The Dept.of Foreign Affairs and its industrial relations problems has little to do with the principal of whether or not that proper identity documents should be carried by travellers in and out of the country.

Irish criminals should not become an export commodity - why should they be inflicted on other countries. Perhaps the answer is to issue them with special passports indicating their previous activities and let their destination country decide whether to let them in or not?

Why would I think that internal ferries - anymore than internal bus services should have security checks? If you can't be arsed to debate at an adult level don't bother replying.

ArmaniJeanss

Judgement Day wrote: »

Why are you quoting EU babble at me - I never said that EU citizens needed passports for internal travel but they damn well should! I travelled for years before the present travel regime came into force and carrying a passport was never a problem for me. Due to the present lack of border controls we haven't a bull's notion who is in the country and don't quote the 2011 census at me please! As for convicted rapists - Larry Murphy served his sentence and was released but I don't think that he should be allowed to travel outside this country - you obviously do?

If Tony Blair is found guilty of mass murder I would expect him to be locked up and not free to travel so I don't see what you're driving at.

I'm not hung up on the issue of mass murderers, rapists or terrorists in particular but I think we need to tighten up our overall security big time - as I think do many ordinary members of the public - as opposed to the minority i.e. liberal, hand wringing etc. members of the media and chattering classes.

I travelled for years myself between England and Ireland by ferry never needing a passport. When I had to go further afield I needed a passport, as I still do.

By the way its beyond tiresome that anyone who doesn't share your extreme viewpoints is and I quote a few examples, 'wishy washy', 'hand wringers', 'pinko liberals'.

dowlingm

Carawaystick - JD mentioned Larry Murphy, who the word as (click the link) was in Spain. Spain is outside the Common Travel Area, thus he would have required a passport. There would be nothing stopping LM going to NI or the UK, but given the difference between the UK-Ireland Travel Area and the Schengen Zone I think it's fair enough not to count the UK as "roaming around Europe"

Also - there have been threads in the past here and RUI I think about random border checks looking for non-UK/Ireland nationals crossing the border, who do not have an automatic entitlement to the Common Travel Area where visas are an issue.

CiaranC

Judgement Day wrote: »

I'm not hung up on the issue of mass murderers, rapists or terrorists in particular but I think we need to tighten up our overall security big time - as I think do many ordinary members of the public - as opposed to the minority i.e. liberal, hand wringing etc. members of the media and chattering classes.

Why do you want more security getting on the ferry in isolation? Ive never been searched getting on a bus or train, maybe you support bringing that in too. How about police checkpoints where we can prove our innocence of terrorism every 500 metres throughout the city, East-German style?

If you think that the majority of people in this country support turning Ireland into a police state so you can feel more safe, you are off your head. No end of your 'pinko' ranting will change the fact that we like to live in a liberal democracy.