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Irish Airsoft Association ?? MAJOR AGM/EGM Issues [MOD WARNING IN POST #64 - read it]

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  • 22-03-2012 11:16pm
    #1
    alexthomaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭


    I posted earlier about whether to join the IAA but as I said Ive a few issues and well here they go.

    1. why was a person elected to the committee as a non commercial when they are !!

    The new vice-chair person was nominated and accepted and elected after stating that he is non commercial, how ever this person is one of the people who is in charge of a Team in Waterford who run a site commercially ( they accept money so its commercial). how was this allowed as the rules state that commercial people are not allowed on the exec committee - i know this was to be voted on but at time of election they are not allowed to be on the committee. so this nomination is obviously invalid, and the people who nominated should have known better and if they too are on the committee they should be removed too for rule breaking.

    I live in Waterford city so regularly attend this site !!! (sorry I did attend but im no longer allowed after voicing concerns there too)

    2: Is the IAA committee answerable to the members?

    Why do they not want to do what members want? but carry on with their own agendas? there is issues with the new IAA facebook page too. there is pics on the page showing the IAA but infact its the Team that the Vice Chair is involved with, why are these pics being used to promote the vice chairs team, the IAA facebook page should be impartial. (this team is not even affiliated according to the website of the IAA, so why are they being promoted)

    3: As stated the website for the IAA is never updated so its going on's are not visable to member or even non members, how do they expect people to join? and trust this association.. and as stated the new committee is there only a few weeks and already it seems to have its own agenda to promote teams not affilliated with it, and to shirt its own rules.

    As Mr Royle would have said "impartial , My Ar~e.

    <mod edit>
    Please read the warnings here and here before posting in this thread.


«13

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Witcher
    Registered Users Posts: 14,447 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Why don't you email them and ask these questions? You won't get answers here.


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    #3
    alexthomaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭alexthomaz


    theres no email for present committee as stated there there a few weeks and the only email address are for the old committee. and im hardly likely to get a reply from them.


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    #4
    Witcher
    Registered Users Posts: 14,447 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    info@irishairsoft.ie

    Facebook page states the new comittee is still using this address. But then again, nothing like a good sh1t stir on here.


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    #5
    bullets
    Registered Users Posts: 4,612 ✭✭✭bullets


    I never knew they (or should I say "we" being a member) had a facebook page.....off to look at it :D

    ~B


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    #6
    Zomg Okay
    Registered Users Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭Zomg Okay


    bullets wrote: »
    I never knew they (or should I say "we" being a member) had a facebook page.....off to look at it :D

    ~B

    It's only up a few days, I think.


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    #7
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    There is no harm in asking here, I recently read through the IAA forums and couldn't make head nor tail of what happened that is so controversial. I think there was an amendment to allow commercial entities on the body? Try asking on the IAA forums perhaps or airsofter.ie where they aren't as quick with the thread locks.


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    #8
    _ricochet_
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭_ricochet_


    The person in question is not commercially involved. I'd also say anyone could post a pic on that FB page.

    If you were so concerned about it you should have attended the meeting. After all the people we're nominated 40 or so days in advance.


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    #9
    gerrowadat
    Registered Users Posts: 3,363 ✭✭✭gerrowadat


    So you got barred off a site and now you've an axe to grind. Clearly with your post count of 3 you've a lot to say. Yawn.


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    #10
    Faolchu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭Faolchu


    first he asked was it worth joining in a different thread now hes got an axe to grind. seems maybe some dollys are being thrown out of a pram


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    #11
    alexthomaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭alexthomaz


    How is the person not commercially involved, this person is activly involved in the management/running of a team that operate a site, hence he does have a commercial interest.

    Also regarding posting of pics and anybody can do it, yes but the IAA Facebook page is there for all but its not a platform to promote certain teams and all teams should be treated equally. and if anything teams and sites that have paid for affiliation should have more viability on the page than non affiliated sites etc.

    and theres more than one site around i can play on, and have, i just think that people who stand for office in organizations are responsible for their actions and should be truthfull honest and promote the sport and organisation fairly and not have hidden agendas, they are there because they were elected by an organisation and not heir own team.


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    #12
    Faolchu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭Faolchu


    alexthomaz wrote: »
    How is the person not commercially involved, this person is actively involved in the management/running of a team that operate a site, hence he does have a commercial interest.

    .
    he's involved in the running of a team but is he an owner/part owner of the site in question?

    does he derive any income from the site?

    how is the running of a team commercial? does he derive any income form the team? if so how? does the team act as consultants for other teams or something? i would assume that the team is a bunch of like minded individuals that skirmish together some wearing the same cloths to make it look like a uniform etc. how is this commercial? coz i cant for the life of me see anyway of deriving income from it

    also i looked the the FB page it was created on paddys day that's 6 days ago, and i can see 2 pictures, Whiskey Delta and what looks like some of the lads from redbarn so how are they promoting one team over another? the pic of WD to me anyway is just highlighting airsoft in a local community event and you may be just reading too much into it.

    the page is up less than a week and has 2 pictures on it, get over yourself mate

    as for people standing for office having integrity, tell that to bertie;)


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    #13
    BioHazRd
    Registered Users Posts: 2,088 ✭✭✭BioHazRd


    alexthomaz wrote: »

    Also regarding posting of pics and anybody can do it, yes but the IAA Facebook page is there for all but its not a platform to promote certain teams and all teams should be treated equally. and if anything teams and sites that have paid for affiliation should have more viability on the page than non affiliated sites etc.
    The iaa represent ALL players / teams whether they are members or not. Also, affiliation is not paid for, it is free, so at least get your facts straight before making baseless accusations
    alexthomaz wrote: »

    i just think that people who stand for office in organizations are responsible for their actions and should be truthfull honest and promote the sport and organisation fairly and not have hidden agendas, they are there because they were elected by an organisation and not heir own team.

    Again your factual knowledge is lacking somewhat. They were elected in by those present at the EGM. There was more than just their team mates present


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    #14
    Nuke1973
    Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭Nuke1973


    HI,

    I'll post about this here and if you want to ask questions in any more detail then feel free to e-mail me on patrick.noonan@irishairsoft.ie or the whole committee on info@irishairsoft.ie.

    I am the new PRO for the IAA and the new committee is not yet in place two weeks.

    The facebook page is up about a week. There was a group which you could become a member of but I felt an open page was a better way of going about things and offered more transparency and anyone can post on it or offer suggestions.

    One person has approached me about a photo of Whiskey Delta being posted and asked that it be changed, my repsonse was that I would mention it but I didn't see it as being a big issue. There are photo's of WAC's Closer(not put up by us but more than welcome) and some guys from Redbarn going to Copehill.

    Any person is welcome to post(or ask us to post) their pics or videos or opinions, negative and positive, on the page. If you have any issues that you bring to us then we will endeavour to address them and explain our reasoning behind things.

    1. why was a person elected to the committee as a non commercial when they are !!

    Jamie Malone is a well known member of the Whiskey Delta team in Waterford and this team runs the Manor site not far from Waterford.

    The crux of the issue here is does that constitute a commercial interest ? As Jamie does not benefit financially from this then my opinion and that of the voting membership at the EGM would have been no.

    Does every member of Whiskey Delta(or any other team that run their own site) have a commercial interest so ?


    2: Is the IAA committee answerable to the members?

    Of course it is, the committee are elected by the members and any member can approach us or under the constition can even arrange for an EGM which could remove us.

    3: As stated the website for the IAA is never updated so its going on's are not visable to member or even non members, how do they expect people to join? and trust this association.. and as stated the new committee is there only a few weeks and already it seems to have its own agenda to promote teams not affilliated with it, and to shirt its own rules.

    We have not updated the website since we were elected. That is as much down to a learning curve and an amount of work to do as anything else. There is no sinister motive behind it. There are big plans for website changes but this is neither the time or the place to go into those further. I aired some of my views on the needs for these changes at the EGM.

    This committee certainly does have an agenda which was openly stated at the recent EGM and that is to improve the transparency with which we do business, to improve the association's standing both within and without the entire airsoft community and to strive to improve all areas of the sport for members and non-members alike.

    I stress the entire community as we feel we are just as much an association for plinkers and collectors as we are for skirmishers.


    Finally, I'd like to ask if you are a member ? If you are and you have ideas and would like to take them further then would you consider a place on either the executive or non executive committee ? If you don't want to be on a committee then please put your ideas forward.

    Even if you are not a member we still feel that we are your representative body so by all means contact us with ideas and issues and they will be taken on board and considered.

    It is always easier to stand on the sidelines and be a critic then to get involved and try to change things for the better. The latter is what we are trying to do but we also recognise that we won't be able to please all the people all the time.

    It is unlikely that I will post on this thread again unless the committee asks me to as I personally do not think anonymous forums are a good way for an association to conduct business. That's not saying i don't use them or disagree with them but anonymity does tend to dilute responsibility and transparency for some people.

    If anyone has any ideas, criticisms or would like to help out then please contact me or the committee on the e-mail addresses above.


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    #15
    Evade
    Registered Users Posts: 6,725 ✭✭✭Evade


    Nuke1973 wrote: »
    I am a member of SEAC(though I live in west Cork) and they run the Asylum, does that mean I have a commercial interest in Airsoft ?
    That's not accurate. Section 8 run the Asylum and although there are a lot of members of section Section 8 in SEAC (and vice versa) they are separate entities.


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    #16
    Nuke1973
    Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭Nuke1973


    Evade wrote: »
    That's not accurate. Section 8 run the Asylum and although there are a lot of members of section Section 8 in SEAC (and vice versa) they are separate entities.

    On foot of this I have rechecked my info and SEAC do not run the Asylum, apologies for the inaccuracy above.

    Apparently Section 8 do not run it either. It is a commercial entity owned and run by two individuals.


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    #17
    gerrowadat
    Registered Users Posts: 3,363 ✭✭✭gerrowadat


    Cheers for the reply Nuke1973. Just ignore this dude, he clearly has something up his nose.

    The same stuff was levelled at the Hawks when they were a team and had 2 committee members on the IAA. Whenever a picture of a Hawk appeared somewhere, people complained that there'd need to be a picture of a contractor and viper and a ghost and whatever other teams were around. Those people needed to lighten the **** up, and so does this guy. Learn to ration your time and patience :-)


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    #18
    alexthomaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭alexthomaz


    what I said was "they were elected by an organisation, and not by their own team",

    And as such they are there to promote the whole airsoft community and not their own team. I never said anything about being electet by just members of their own team, i realise that there were other people at the EGM


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    #19
    The_Outlaw
    Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭The_Outlaw


    Nuke1973 wrote: »
    1. why was a person elected to the committee as a non commercial when they are !!

    Jamie Malone is a well known member of the Whiskey Delta team in Waterford and this team runs the Manor site not far from Waterford.

    The crux of the issue here is does that constitute a commercial interest ? As Jamie does not benefit financially from this then my opinion and that of the voting membership at the EGM would have been no.

    Does every member of Whiskey Delta(or any other team that run their own site) have a commercial interest so ?

    Ok I have a question to ask on the above underscored response.

    If Whiskey Delta run a site near waterford and Mr Malone is a well known member of the Whiskey delta team the following needs to be clarified in order to clear the situation up.

    1. Although Mr Malone is a well known member of the team, Is he an actual owner or part owner of the team in question?

    2. Is the site in question outside of waterford an actual profit making site. Does it have a annual turn over and if so does Mr Malone benifit from this financially or is the money earned by the site put back into the site itself?

    If the answer to one or both of these questions is Yes then Mr Malone has a commercial interest and the points raised by the origional poster are valid. If the answers are No then the points raised are not valid... its that simple.

    And before anyone decided to jump down my throut in relation to my comments (as most people here seem to do at each other as everyone seems to have an opinion on everything) I am just clarifying the reason the origional question was asked. Nothing more and nothing less.

    On a side not, I am more interested to find out what happens to a members money once they register. I signed up on the 15th of March with the IAA and have heard nothing since.....

    I am not expecting to have received a membership card within the first few days but an email would have been nice to state that you were looking after new members rather than just taking money from them.


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    #20
    The_Outlaw
    Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭The_Outlaw


    jamesalbert wrote: »
    Hello Friends
    Individual members of the IAA enjoy discounts at some of our affiliates, and also help us with our running costs with membership fees. The IAA is a volunteer-run organisation and we rely on individuals for our ongoing running costs.
    Thanks

    Hi James, I was hoping to get a little bit more of a personal response rather than a generic response. I didnt join to get discounts, simply to get an irish version of an Ukara card to make it easier to travel abroad.

    But thanks anyway.


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    #21
    gerrowadat
    Registered Users Posts: 3,363 ✭✭✭gerrowadat


    The_Outlaw wrote: »
    Hi James, I was hoping to get a little bit more of a personal response rather than a generic response. I didnt join to get discounts, simply to get an irish version of an Ukara card to make it easier to travel abroad.

    But thanks anyway.

    IAA membership isn't anything close to a UKARA card.

    You should probably get a card soon enough though, they get done in batches.


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    #22
    The_Outlaw
    Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭The_Outlaw


    Thanks for the update. I am totally aware that the IAA membership card is nothing close to a Ukara membership, however it will assist in international travel.

    Unfortunately at this moment in time Ireland is still backwards in relation to airsoft/paintball rules and regs...... Maybe when we have a valid platform to work on we can aim to have an organization put in place that will be the equivalent to Ukara..... But till that day we have to make do with what we have....
    gerrowadat wrote: »
    The_Outlaw wrote: »
    Hi James, I was hoping to get a little bit more of a personal response rather than a generic response. I didnt join to get discounts, simply to get an irish version of an Ukara card to make it easier to travel abroad.

    But thanks anyway.

    IAA membership isn't anything close to a UKARA card.

    You should probably get a card soon enough though, they get done in batches.


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    #23
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    The_Outlaw wrote: »
    Thanks for the update. I am totally aware that the IAA membership card is nothing close to a Ukara membership, however it will assist in international travel.

    Unfortunately at this moment in time Ireland is still backwards in relation to airsoft/paintball rules and regs...... Maybe when we have a valid platform to work on we can aim to have an organization put in place that will be the equivalent to Ukara..... But till that day we have to make do with what we have....

    I'd much rather have a player run IAA than a retailer run UKARA equivalent which has it's own interests at heart.


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    #24
    The_Outlaw
    Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭The_Outlaw


    Stercus Accidit wrote: »
    I'd much rather have a player run IAA than a retailer run UKARA equivalent which has it's own interests at heart.


    The interest of Ukara is to ensure that the sport continues to grow by only allowing players that show an interest in the sport obtain a RIF which in my opinion is a good thing... Currently in Ireland anyone can log onto an Irish retailers website and purchase a RIF with no proof of who they are or how old they are.... Does UKARA work ??? Yes... Do people complain????? No... Why???? because it is well run with the interest of growth of the sport involved....

    Right now all I see is people bikkering here about what the previous/current committee did or have not done. If something is asked here the committee should respond here.... People shouldnt have to send a private email to the committee for a response. If someone want to then thats up to them....

    I am not bashing previous/past committees. I am simply raising a few points that I have noticed since joining the board as an official boards member(I was a guest for a long time but decided to get my act together and sign up).

    If we can put a similare practice into place in Ireland as is currently used in the UK, I think we can do a number of positive things.

    1. Avoid all the negative publicity that comes with RIF's
    2. Put a system in place that ensures that only positive or serious players can aquire a RIF. (under 18's or all others to have two tone models unless renting)
    3. Insure that our sport is not targeted at a later date by the minister for Justice in his bid to rid ireland of a gun crazed culture....

    But we have to start somewhere i guess.......


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    #25
    Dogwatch
    Registered Users Posts: 5,553 ✭✭✭Dogwatch


    UKARA and its relevance to Ireland and how it might work has been done to death on boards.

    Use the search above and if you have a few days you can read all the back posts about it.

    The general consensus seems to be that we do not want a retailer run organisation in Ireland, but there are those that disagree.

    Each organisation has its pros and cons.


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    #26
    The_Outlaw
    Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭The_Outlaw


    I wasnt suggesting a retailer run org, simply that the way they do things works well for the community as a whole. Maybe its about time that the new committee take a few pointers as to how to move forward.....thats all....
    Dogwatch wrote: »
    UKARA and its relevance to Ireland and how it might work has been done to death on boards.

    Use the search above and if you have a few days you can read all the back posts about it.

    The general consensus seems to be that we do not want a retailer run organisation in Ireland, but there are those that disagree.

    Each organisation has its pros and cons.


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    #27
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    The_Outlaw wrote: »
    The interest of Ukara is to ensure that the sport continues to grow by only allowing players that show an interest in the sport obtain a RIF which in my opinion is a good thing... Currently in Ireland anyone can log onto an Irish retailers website and purchase a RIF with no proof of who they are or how old they are.... Does UKARA work ??? Yes... Do people complain????? No... Why???? because it is well run with the interest of growth of the sport involved....

    Right now all I see is people bikkering here about what the previous/current committee did or have not done. If something is asked here the committee should respond here.... People shouldnt have to send a private email to the committee for a response. If someone want to then thats up to them....

    I am not bashing previous/past committees. I am simply raising a few points that I have noticed since joining the board as an official boards member(I was a guest for a long time but decided to get my act together and sign up).

    If we can put a similare practice into place in Ireland as is currently used in the UK, I think we can do a number of positive things.

    1. Avoid all the negative publicity that comes with RIF's
    2. Put a system in place that ensures that only positive or serious players can aquire a RIF. (under 18's or all others to have two tone models unless renting)
    3. Insure that our sport is not targeted at a later date by the minister for Justice in his bid to rid ireland of a gun crazed culture....

    But we have to start somewhere i guess.......

    I am well aware of what UKARA is and the VCRB have been since its inception. It has created a closed entry way to airsofting and requires you to spend quite a bit of money to get RIF's, with mandatory skirmishing ignoring plinkers entirely. Yes they have a financial incentive to promote their sport, they also have a financial incentive to force people to attend regular games and only to buy from certain approved shops and have done so, there is a conflict there between those with financial incentive and all the power and the regular airsofters who do not have a voice as loud as the retailers.

    Our IAA is better than UKARA, and has done a great job, if it has been quiet in the last couple of years it is because the sport hasn't been under threat and the average players aren't interested in politics. No news is good news, and if ever there is a real threat you can expect the IAA framework to work perfectly well as established.

    There is a place for a retailers representative body but it isn't as the representative of the sport & players as a whole, there is a conflict of interest. You are mad to say UKARA isn't complained about, any UK airsofter I have spoken to or seen on a UK forum hates the system as it stands.

    As has been posted this has been debated to death, UKARA isn't an ideal and hardly anyone thinks it is.

    Why does the IAA always have to be expected to be making waves? Isn't it good enough that we have it there in case we need it?


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    #28
    alexthomaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭alexthomaz


    Thanks The_Outlaw: according to the website mr malone is on the administration team of whiskey delta, and as whiskey delta run the site this would mean that he is one is the people in charge of running the site, and if a site is accepting money for entrance, loans guns, bbs, gas etc etc then surely this is being commercial, ??
    The_Outlaw wrote: »
    Ok I have a question to ask on the above underscored response.

    If Whiskey Delta run a site near waterford and Mr Malone is a well known member of the Whiskey delta team the following needs to be clarified in order to clear the situation up.

    1. Although Mr Malone is a well known member of the team, Is he an actual owner or part owner of the team in question?

    2. Is the site in question outside of waterford an actual profit making site. Does it have a annual turn over and if so does Mr Malone benifit from this financially or is the money earned by the site put back into the site itself?

    If the answer to one or both of these questions is Yes then Mr Malone has a commercial interest and the points raised by the origional poster are valid. If the answers are No then the points raised are not valid... its that simple.

    And before anyone decided to jump down my throut in relation to my comments (as most people here seem to do at each other as everyone seems to have an opinion on everything) I am just clarifying the reason the origional question was asked. Nothing more and nothing less.

    On a side not, I am more interested to find out what happens to a members money once they register. I signed up on the 15th of March with the IAA and have heard nothing since.....

    I am not expecting to have received a membership card within the first few days but an email would have been nice to state that you were looking after new members rather than just taking money from them.


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    #29
    gerrowadat
    Registered Users Posts: 3,363 ✭✭✭gerrowadat


    alexthomaz wrote: »
    Thanks The_Outlaw: according to the website mr malone is on the administration team of whiskey delta, and as whiskey delta run the site this would mean that he is one is the people in charge of running the site, and if a site is accepting money for entrance, loans guns, bbs, gas etc etc then surely this is being commercial, ??

    So why didn't you bring this up during the election?

    Are you a member of the IAA?


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    #30
    gerrowadat
    Registered Users Posts: 3,363 ✭✭✭gerrowadat


    The_Outlaw wrote: »
    I wasnt suggesting a retailer run org, simply that the way they do things works well for the community as a whole. Maybe its about time that the new committee take a few pointers as to how to move forward.....thats all....

    UKARA is a retailer run cartel. They charge money for access to their database, and they require you to play on sites registered with them.

    The IAA safety, rules standards, insurance standards etc. are well documented and enforced. UKARA has a standard as well, it's fulfilled by paying money.

    UKARA don't publish any guidelines as to eligibility for sites or retailers. They can essentially shut any airsoft retailer they don't like down overnight by removing their access to the player database, for any reason or no reason. I know you can assert the skirmisher defense without a UKARA number, but realistically it's the only game in town.

    I don't ever want to see any sporting body in Ireland that has this kind of power.


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    #31
    alexthomaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭alexthomaz


    I was not available for the AGM Or EGM,

    I'm not a member of the IAA but I dont have to be to ask questions..



    gerrowadat wrote: »
    So why didn't you bring this up during the election?

    Are you a member of the IAA?


This discussion has been closed.
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