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Security at Dublin Port is a joke

  • 24-03-2012 12:46AM
    #1
    scudzilla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,982 ✭✭✭✭


    Not sure if this is the right forum or not.

    I travel back to Wales to see the family quite a bit and am astounded at how poor Security is at Dublin Port. I go over maybe once ever other month, sometimes as a foot passenger, sometimes in the car.

    When i arrive at Holyhead in my Car there is always police and customs waiting just after you've checked in, they pull a lot of drivers over and give them the once over. When i drive from Dublin port there is nothing, just check in and drive straight onto the boat.

    On arrival in Dublin it's just a case of driving off and out of the port, in the past 24 months i've not seen one vehicle checked, not even seen anybody standing watching cars coming off. When i drive off in Holyhead there are always Police/Customs randomly checking vehicles.

    As a foot passenger it's just as bad, if not worse.

    When i go from Holyhead i check in, put my bags through an X-Ray machine then there's about 4 police/customs people checking passengers, Getting on the boat in Dublin you just check in, throw your bag (unchecked) onto the conveyor belt, and walk onto the boat!!!

    Getting off in Holyhead i'm met by, maybe 3 or 4 police/customs and the occasional sniffer dog, all doing random checks, getting off at Dublin and there's a couple of Gardai just asking what nationality you are!!

    Surely this is a huge security risk for Ireland, anybody could get on in Dublin with a bomb in there suitcase and have it detonate half way across the sea. Not only that how many 'Illegal' immigrants can get into the country in a vehicle??


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Comments

  • #2
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,604 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    So the Welsh check for us what's coming in and we don't give a **** about what's leaving, where's the problem?


  • #3
    dMaN24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 513 ✭✭✭dMaN24


    Have you tried to actually bring something illegal over?

    They have control, just not up in your face.
    Same with the airport.


  • #4
    littlejp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 715 ✭✭✭littlejp


    scudzilla wrote: »
    Surely this is a huge security risk for Ireland, anybody could get on in Dublin with a bomb in there suitcase and have it detonate half way across the sea. Not only that how many 'Illegal' immigrants can get into the country in a vehicle??

    Why would anyone blow up a ferry in the Irish Sea?

    Maybe the Welsh are doing such a good job their end, they don't need to put much effort in this end.


  • #5
    scudzilla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,982 ✭✭✭✭scudzilla


    littlejp wrote: »
    Why would anyone blow up a ferry in the Irish Sea?

    That's what i thought about 2 rather large buildings in NYC 15yrs ago


  • #6
    mickydoomsux
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    scudzilla wrote: »
    That's what i thought about 2 rather large buildings in NYC 15yrs ago

    Someone is going to fly an passenger jet into a ferry?


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  • #7
    littlejp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 715 ✭✭✭littlejp


    scudzilla wrote: »
    littlejp wrote: »
    Why would anyone blow up a ferry in the Irish Sea?

    That's what i thought about 2 rather large buildings in NYC 15yrs ago

    You knew/thought about 9/11 4 years before it happened? :O

    Bit of a difference in skyscrapers in Manhattan and the Irish Sea.


  • #8
    User Friendly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭User Friendly


    Scudzilla has bought into the be afraid, terrorism ****e


  • #9
    aujopimur
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭aujopimur


    The real security checks are done well out of sight and away from the port.


  • #10
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Of course security is a joke at Dublin Port - has been for all the years I have travelled through it. Why is anybody surprised, remember this: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hijacker-no-threat-to-dublin-airport-292236.html

    or this from last year: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/unnamed-activist-group-claims-damage-of-us-plane-178365.html

    which followed on from the 2003 attack: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/taxpayers-bill-for-jet-attack-hits-4m-221631.html

    Jesus, what would the State do if real terrorists decide to attack us? Life most things in this country security is done in a half arsed way and one day it will come back to bite us. :(


  • #11
    noelfirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 644 ✭✭✭noelfirl


    You never know when the Welsh separatists might pop up with their Daffy bombs.


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  • #12
    hidinginthebush
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,679 ✭✭✭hidinginthebush


    Isn't there "free travel" between Ireland and Britain? Surely that's a factor in this.


  • #13
    dardhal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭dardhal


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    Someone is going to fly an passenger jet into a ferry?

    No, but someone with nothing to loose could plant a bomb car in the lower ferry deck, make it blast, and have some hundreds of people drown in the middle of the freezing open ocean with little former planning. Not saying that there are no controls or that we should live in a state of permanent panic just in case, but the fact is there are bad guys out there, or simply people beyond breaking point, that can easily wreak havoc if they loose their mind.


  • #14
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,823 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    dardhal wrote: »
    No, but someone with nothing to loose could plant a bomb car in the lower ferry deck, make it blast, and have some hundreds of people drown in the middle of the freezing open ocean with little former planning. Not saying that there are no controls or that we should live in a state of permanent panic just in case, but the fact is there are bad guys out there, or simply people beyond breaking point, that can easily wreak havoc if they loose their mind.

    A boat is an incredibly easy target.
    For an airplane you can concentrate the security at the airport (xRay scanners and the like) and make it close to 100% secure.

    Whereas the same (hugely expensive) level of security is pointless for a boat as the it's biggest vulnerability is in the open sea - its fairly easy to get close to any boat and do a huge amount of damage with a handheld rocket or a few grenades.

    So there's little or no point in doing airport style levels of security at a ferry terminal. That the UK choose to do so shouldn't influence us to do something so illogical.


  • #15
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,722 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Of course security is a joke at Dublin Port - has been for all the years I have travelled through it. Why is anybody surprised, remember this: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hijacker-no-threat-to-dublin-airport-292236.html
    I'd not heard of it. Note that he was a taxi hi-jacker, not an aircraft hi-jacker.


  • #16
    latenia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭latenia


    dardhal wrote: »
    No, but someone with nothing to loose could plant a bomb car in the lower ferry deck, make it blast, and have some hundreds of people drown in the middle of the freezing open ocean with little former planning.

    A bomb big enough to sink a ferry before it made it back to port or before a full evacuation could be carried out would never make it aboard. Someone else mentioned hanheld grenades or rockets which is just ridiculous-they'd barely scuttle a fishing boat.
    Islamic terrorism is on the wane anyway so why are you afraid of something that's about as likely to happen as a tsunami toppling the ship?


  • #17
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,604 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Ferries aren't really good terrorist targets, no point in hijacking it, can't really crash it into anything to make a scene in a short enough timescale. Blowing it up is difficult to do quickly too, you'd need a massive bomb to make a big enough hole to sink it quickly enough to kill people

    ps there's a maritime forum for this now ;)


  • #18
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,823 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    latenia wrote: »
    Someone else mentioned handheld grenades or rockets which is just ridiculous-they'd barely scuttle a fishing boat.

    It was me.
    To be honest I wasn't talking in terms of actually sinking a big ferry - more in terms of causing loss of life, general terror, etc. Which can be done without ever being on the ship, as its a big target which is relatively easy to get close to. As opposed to an airplane which is an almost impossible target once its taken off.

    So therefore imo having post911 airport style security in a ferry terminal would be kind of pointless?


  • #19
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    latenia wrote: »
    A bomb big enough to sink a ferry before it made it back to port or before a full evacuation could be carried out would never make it aboard. Someone else mentioned hanheld grenades or rockets which is just ridiculous-they'd barely scuttle a fishing boat.
    Islamic terrorism is on the wane anyway so why are you afraid of something that's about as likely to happen as a tsunami toppling the ship?


    Care to enlighten the rest of us of where you're getting your information from? :rolleyes:


  • #20
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,004 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    It's difficult if not impossible to plan a reasonable approach to violent lunacy.

    If a psychopath,motivated by whatever demons inhabit their mind at any given moment,decides to visit death and destruction upon us then we have to deal with it as it occurs.

    The issues rest with ourselves,the non-loonies,who have to decide just how much individual freedom to sacrifice in order to contain wild-eyed raving lunatics.

    For example,the Toulouse killer Mr Merah,drags an 8 year old girl by her hair and has to re-arm himself in order to discharge a large caliber firearm into her head....does anybody realistically expect increased security at Dublin Port would prevent an Irish Merah from doing the same ?

    However the real issue for us all,lies more with the statement today from Mr Merahs brother,Abdelkader....

    http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/french-serial-killer-had-20-bullet-wounds-after-gunfight-3060027.html
    Merah's older brother, Abdelkader (29) told police: "I am very proud of my brother. I regret nothing for him and I approve of what he did."

    The real challenge for us all is to resist the urge to erect peace-fences,minefields and such tangible barriers as suggested by the OP and get out and live our lives as freely as we can ?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #21
    Del2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,184 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    scudzilla wrote: »
    Not sure if this is the right forum or not.

    I travel back to Wales to see the family quite a bit and am astounded at how poor Security is at Dublin Port. I go over maybe once ever other month, sometimes as a foot passenger, sometimes in the car.

    When i arrive at Holyhead in my Car there is always police and customs waiting just after you've checked in, they pull a lot of drivers over and give them the once over. When i drive from Dublin port there is nothing, just check in and drive straight onto the boat.

    On arrival in Dublin it's just a case of driving off and out of the port, in the past 24 months i've not seen one vehicle checked, not even seen anybody standing watching cars coming off. When i drive off in Holyhead there are always Police/Customs randomly checking vehicles.

    As a foot passenger it's just as bad, if not worse.

    When i go from Holyhead i check in, put my bags through an X-Ray machine then there's about 4 police/customs people checking passengers, Getting on the boat in Dublin you just check in, throw your bag (unchecked) onto the conveyor belt, and walk onto the boat!!!

    Getting off in Holyhead i'm met by, maybe 3 or 4 police/customs and the occasional sniffer dog, all doing random checks, getting off at Dublin and there's a couple of Gardai just asking what nationality you are!!

    Surely this is a huge security risk for Ireland, anybody could get on in Dublin with a bomb in there suitcase and have it detonate half way across the sea. Not only that how many 'Illegal' immigrants can get into the country in a vehicle??

    I had the other way. Going out of Dublin my bag and helmet where scanned on the xray machine and I was made walk through the metal detector, I was picking a bike up at Holyhead. Walked off the boat past a shed load of UK customs and police, but no one was stopped. On the way back I just drove straight onto the boat with no checks, never got checked when I went through French ports.
    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    It was me.
    To be honest I wasn't talking in terms of actually sinking a big ferry - more in terms of causing loss of life, general terror, etc. Which can be done without ever being on the ship, as its a big target which is relatively easy to get close to.

    It would be much easier to just walk into a town/shopping centre with a bomb in a bag and walk out. Why would a terrorist go for a hard target, a ferry is relatively difficult to attack, when you have loads of easy targets outside their front door
    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    As opposed to an airplane which is an almost impossible target once its taken off.

    Planes can be easily gotten from the ground, look up hire powered lasers and planes. If you really wanted too it wouldn't be take hard to stick a heavy machine gun into the back of a van, park it at the end of a runway and blow a fully loaded 747 up on takeoff.
    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    So therefore imo having post911 airport style security in a ferry terminal would be kind of pointless?

    To be honest post 911 security in airports is pointless also. There are so many ways of bringing down a plane, the restrictions are just a con to fool people into thinking that they aren't in danger.


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  • #22
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    You may not see much security, but you don't know how much they see of you.

    Please don't be asking for MORE security, it's OTT as it is in some places.Or do you want to start fining people for bringing in an apple like in Aus?


  • #23
    n900guy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 288 ✭✭n900guy


    hidinginthebush wrote: »
    Isn't there "free travel" between Ireland and Britain? Surely that's a factor in this.


    The UK wants to remain outside of the Schengen agreement. The area includes Ireland; the Common Travel Area is not a legislated area, but simply the area that Schengen doesn't apply - and it's only between UK and Ireland. From a transportation and passport perspective, the UK (Britain) doesn't view Ireland as a separate nation, and vice versa from our government's perspective.

    The vast majority of illegals in Ireland come from the UK; more from Northern Ireland by road than from Wales by boat.

    Irish security policy is set 100% by the UK. The only time the CTA was ever put into legislation with respect to "passport free travel" is when Schengen was written. There is no UK or Ireland statute guaranteeing passport free travel AFAIK; merely the lack of a need of passport when travelling between Britain and Ireland and that this area common to both islands remains outside Schengen.


  • #24
    MarkK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 721 ✭✭✭MarkK


    n900guy wrote: »
    Irish security policy is set 100% by the UK.
    You may aswell say that UK security policy is 100% set by Ireland, the open border goes both ways you know!
    n900guy wrote: »
    There is no UK or Ireland statute guaranteeing passport free travel AFAIK; merely the lack of a need of passport when travelling between Britain and Ireland and that this area common to both islands remains outside Schengen.
    Only UK and Irish citizens don't need a passport, everyone else is required to carry one.


  • #25
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    corktina wrote: »
    You may not see much security, but you don't know how much they see of you.

    Please don't be asking for MORE security, it's OTT as it is in some places.Or do you want to start fining people for bringing in an apple like in Aus?

    I do and I'm happy to admit it. Everybody passing in and out of the country should be required to carry a passport, it's pure stupidity the way things currently stand. People with serious criminal convictions -such as Larry Murphy http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=77679974 should be unable to travel freely throughout Europe - they should be unable to obtain passports. It is wishy washy, hand wringing, liberal, pinko policies that have this, and other countries, awash with ne'er-do-wells and it's not political correct to mention it.


  • #26
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,244 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Honestly,
    I think the security at ports is adequate, there could be more checks of cargo etc but I dont actually know how much of that goes on so it may not be a fair point.

    However, the bigger issue is this.
    If you are a person wishing to evade the authorities to:
    A. Bring something illegal into the country.
    B. Bring yourself, undocumented into the country.
    or any other form of illegalness,
    Why would you get on a passenger ferry?

    We have three and a half thousand miles of coastline, hundreds and hundreds of sheltered beaches and bays, and good knows how many square miles of sea.
    And it's policed by:
    Maybe 6 or 7 navy boats and a few coast guard boats, if at all.

    If you want to "feel more secure" and are one who feels more secure at ports with more visible security, think of that I mentioned above, and ask yourself if someone really wanted to blow up a passenger ferry, do you think they would do it from the inside?

    A criminal with access to a boat, speed or otherwise, could be in or out of Ireland in a few hours if they so wanted.


  • #27
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    kippy wrote: »
    Honestly,
    I think the security at ports is adequate, there could be more checks of cargo etc but I dont actually know how much of that goes on so it may not be a fair point.

    However, the bigger issue is this.
    If you are a person wishing to evade the authorities to:
    A. Bring something illegal into the country.
    B. Bring yourself, undocumented into the country.
    or any other form of illegalness,
    Why would you get on a passenger ferry?

    We have three and a half thousand miles of coastline, hundreds and hundreds of sheltered beaches and bays, and good knows how many square miles of sea.
    And it's policed by:
    Maybe 6 or 7 navy boats and a few coast guard boats, if at all.

    If you want to "feel more secure" and are one who feels more secure at ports with more visible security, think of that I mentioned above, and ask yourself if someone really wanted to blow up a passenger ferry, do you think they would do it from the inside?

    A criminal with access to a boat, speed or otherwise, could be in or out of Ireland in a few hours if they so wanted.

    Should we add a poll to this thread? You fit into the handwringing lobby - the problem is too big so we'll do nothing about it.


  • #28
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,244 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Should we add a poll to this thread? You fit into the handwringing lobby - the problem is too big so we'll do nothing about it.

    Not at all,
    The point I and others are making, is that there is security at ports (none of us know how much, security doesnt have to be visible to be effective), if you want the airport style security, (in your face, scanners, etc etc) you need to ask yourself what are you trying to do, what the impact will be upon your customers and running costs, and is this level of security warranted?

    I'd be happier if the time was spent reviewing our coastal security resources. I have no idea who or what gets into or out of the country through those means and I am in now way satisified we have put enough resources towards it.

    There's no point locking the windows if the front door is open, with a sign pointing to it.


  • #29
    Del2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,184 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    kippy wrote: »
    The point I and others are making, is that there is security at ports (none of us know how much, security doesnt have to be visible to be effective), if you want the airport style security, (in your face, scanners, etc etc) you need to ask yourself what are you trying to do, what the impact will be upon your customers and running costs, and is this level of security warranted?

    The point is that no mater what level of security you put in place it will be circumvented if someone wants to.

    The OTT security at airports is to make passengers feel comfortable flying rather than actually protecting the plane or passengers, since a plane can still be easily downed with hand carry items.


  • #30
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,244 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Del2005 wrote: »
    The point is that no mater what level of security you put in place it will be circumvented if someone wants to.

    The OTT security at airports is to make passengers feel comfortable flying rather than actually protecting the plane or passengers, since a plane can still be easily downed with hand carry items.

    I agree, that is what I said, although it may have been a bit long winded.


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  • #31
    parsi
    Site Banned Posts: 5,904 ✭✭✭parsi


    I went foot passenger between Portsmouth ad St Malo one year. We had to go through airport style security and a yachting had his knife taken off him.

    These knives were on sale on the ferry. Vehicle passengers were free to bring canteens of cutlery in their cars.

    Made no sense to me.


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