Bertie Ahern statement/resignation

RobbingBandit · 23-03-2012 05:07AM

Orando Broom wrote: »

Name me one Irish man or woman who could lead a revolution in this country, who could sweep out the old guard of all colour and stripe and root and branch reform our dysfunctional political system. One name, that is all I ask.

Me, yes I am serious. Fcuk these basterds who are in power and opposition, elections do not work and neither does oligarchy as lets face it the same people running every few years or those they have inspired is not democracy. We need to overhaul the entire public system nothing should be allowed to remain as it is it does not work, if your family be that any member of it has served in any area of politics and fcuked up in any way you should be prohibited from doing so.

Jesus Wept · 23-03-2012 05:11AM

Awful_Bliss wrote: »

I bet Bertie doesn't give two f**ks about being expelled from Fianna Fail. He's on a fat pension and living off giving speeches to idiots who still believe he's a faultless man. He will give a f**k if he's thrown in jail and buggered by three big lads in the jacks. We all know this won't happen.

The current government think, however, that they can put thousands of people in court for not paying a 100euros household charge. They'll let this cockroach off the hook along with the likes of Sean Fitzpatrick et al.

Most of them know he is crooked, they just admire it.

John Doe1 wrote: »

Ahern is a prime example of why dublin should be given back to the vikings

Yea it's a Dublin thing alright. Crooked politician all over the country.

expectationlost · 23-03-2012 05:59AM

you could get him kicked off the council of state but you'd probably have to wait till he's prosecuted so....:/

gurramok · 23-03-2012 07:37AM

benway wrote: »

Still on VB, Charlie Flanagan reckons Bertie could be charged with lying under oath for one thing, as well as tax offences...

Ah yeh, will he get 6 years like the garlic man? Yeh right.:rolleyes:

KeithAFC · 23-03-2012 07:44AM

wexie wrote: »

Obama vows to return to 'magical' Ireland
Barack Obama given Irish ancestry certificate

I'm telling ya, it's a sign.....

Lets hope it is just the Republic.

cournioni · 23-03-2012 09:33AM

PerlenBacher wrote: »

Bertie is bad enough. But its the people who supported him and still do that make me sick.

Was watching the news earlier and it interviewed a few random members of the public. Most were telling it the way it is ... except one woman in perticular :rolleyes:

To quote, "Bertie wasnt all that bad, sure he did good things like the croke park thing" :rolleyes:

I'm convinced that the people who support him are buying into his whole "ah how are ya", smiley, "look at me aren't I friendly?!" act that he puts on. He's a abject little ****er, and I hope he gets what should be coming to him.

the groutch · 23-03-2012 09:48AM

I can't wait to dance on his grave, like that guy did with Haughey

Biggins · 23-03-2012 09:51AM

cournioni wrote: »

I'm convinced that the people who support him are buying into his whole "ah how are ya", smiley, "look at me aren't I friendly?!" act that he puts on...

Thats exactly how Haughty got elected - and Ahern was his underling (Minister of Finance - no less!).
The man learned well from his other previous crook!

...And think on this, the Mahon Tribunal only really dealed with a few financial dealings, within a very small couple of years.
So what might have been going on for some time before that and with how many other people, over years, decades...?
We will never know!
...Well unless Ahern is in a dock and maybe - maybe spills some secrets he's keeping. A dock where many maybe still in power, does not want to see him in!

Chairman Meow · 23-03-2012 10:00AM

Jack_Russell wrote: »

poor aul Bertie,

didn't he have a portrait of Padraig Pearse in his office?

and him a lover of the GAA as well, a modest pint drinker, a man of the paeple, an ordinary man, and a more devout Catholic you'll not witness.

didn't ye all vote fer him when we were booming?

and if we were still booming wouldn't ye still be voting 'n cheering fer him?

sure he transformed this place!

I never voted for FF or Bertie, ever. I always knew he was crooked as a dogs hind leg. He's a lying, cheating, underhanded scumbag of a human being who should be ashamed to show his ****ing face in public.
But hey it only cost a few hundred million Euro to prove what everyone already knew...that was money well spent.
The ****er should rot in jail.

ilovesleep · 23-03-2012 10:00AM

Biggins wrote: »

Thats exactly how Haughty got elected - and Ahern was his underling (Minister of Finance - no less!).
The man learned well from his other previous crook!

...And think on this, the Mahon Tribunal only really dealed with a few financial dealings, within a very small couple of years.
So what might have been going on for some time before that and with how many other people, over years, decades...?
We will never know!
...Well unless Ahern is in a dock and maybe - maybe spills some secrets he's keeping. A dock where many maybe still in power, does not want to see him in!

Pressure has to be put on this fcuk big time so he sings.

Did the tribunal find anything about his office - 200,000+ euro was spent renovating his office. That's the same amount as a mortgage and money went missing there but into who's pocket?

Biggins · 23-03-2012 10:05AM

ilovesleep wrote: »

Pressure has to be put on this fcuk big time so he sings.

Did the tribunal find anything about his office - 200,000+ euro was spent renovating his office. That's the same amount as a mortgage and money went missing there but into who's pocket?

The tribunal judges wanted to dig more into other areas but there was a rush to court by opposition, to force the judges to have more limited remit in what they could delve into.
The judges suspected there might be more, much more (and I suspect they were/are right) but if they wanted to go further and investigate more - that soon was shot down by heads in Dublin.
The obvious question arises - if heads in Dublin were innocent - what had they to fear?

toexpress · 23-03-2012 10:11AM

Digging further into things is really rather pointless. We all knew for quite some time what Bertie Ahern and many of his friends and colleagues were. We didn't need a 15 year tribunal and millions of Euro spent to tell us that. It simply, in the most expensive way possible, confirmed what anyone with a brain in their head already knew.

If we spend more money digging it will still be an exercise in futility because even if they find him corrupt and charges are brought before a court of law Bertie will delay for years and years and if it did actually get a hearing date he would never see the inside of a prison cell.

I hate to break this to the nation but the time served for any of these has been done. It was Frank Dunlop and he certainly didn't serve his time with dignity and respect for the Irish people.

As frustrating as it is I suggest we all suck it up and move on. Nothing more will ever happen

ilovesleep · 23-03-2012 10:22AM

toexpress wrote: »

Digging further into things is really rather pointless. We all knew for quite some time what Bertie Ahern and many of his friends and colleagues were. We didn't need a 15 year tribunal and millions of Euro spent to tell us that. It simply, in the most expensive way possible, confirmed what anyone with a brain in their head already knew.

You're missing the point. FG could be very well deep rooted in corruption and this is the party that we elected last year to care for this country and in reality they are just covering their own asses.

crusher000 · 23-03-2012 10:26AM

To think the men of 1916 laid down their lives to get this countries Independance for the likes Bertie and the majority of our politicians could line their own pockets and break our nation. Do our politicians say an Oath on election to the Dail? If so any politician found not only to be corrupt but incompetent should be charged in bringing the security of this State into jeopardy. I have said it before not on these forums and will say it again our politicans do not represent the majority of the citizens of this country whom are working class and until that day comes it will be always about them making more money and keeping the rest of us down. We need greater represntation for the working and poor classes (don't like using these terms but what's the alternatives) to truly reflect the demographic make up of Irelands population.

dark crystal · 23-03-2012 10:36AM

One thing I'm still not clear about - if Bertie is expelled from the FF party, will he still be entitled to his pension...

Faolchu · 23-03-2012 10:38AM

so here's a question, am i right in thinking that the CAB or what ever can confiscate the proceeds of crime? if so and hypothetically its proven that he did take a back hander. the back hander would be a proceed of a hypothetical crime as fraud is a crime. so CAB can seize the funds of the alleged crime.

take this hypothetical situation on step further. he hypothetically does many a favor for his mates and in return gets a few extra ticks on the ballot paper as well as the occasional dig out or tip on the horses etc. now the alleged fraud that has taken place has resulted in his election to government should his ministers pay & benefits including pension then not be considered the proceeds of crime and thus seized by the CAB?

probably never happen but its a nice pipe dream

Biggins · 23-03-2012 10:39AM

toexpress wrote: »

Digging further into things is really rather pointless. We all knew for quite some time what Bertie Ahern and many of his friends and colleagues were. We didn't need a 15 year tribunal and millions of Euro spent to tell us that. It simply, in the most expensive way possible, confirmed what anyone with a brain in their head already knew.

If we spend more money digging it will still be an exercise in futility because even if they find him corrupt and charges are brought before a court of law Bertie will delay for years and years and if it did actually get a hearing date he would never see the inside of a prison cell.

I hate to break this to the nation but the time served for any of these has been done. It was Frank Dunlop and he certainly didn't serve his time with dignity and respect for the Irish people.

As frustrating as it is I suggest we all suck it up and move on. Nothing more will ever happen

Digging further is never fully pointless - it clearly shows alone, that such bad behaviour will not go un-investigated or that crooks might further escape from having to answer for their actions.

There IS the argument that the country cannot afford another Tribunal - this is true.
A question arises though, as to how common criminals, drug barons, banks and related people can be investigated by the likes of the CAB, the Gardi, etc and their investigation processes, over a shorter period of time and why can't those same abilities/skills be applied to our current lot under suspicion within and now retired from the Dail?

If we are just seen to say "We can't investigate, the matter is too big and too costly" - that alone acts as a further incentive to others thinking of doing similar or already involved in similar activities, that they can continue on their illegal path so that their antics get so big and large that we would be put off by the scale of their accumulation of crimes!

To do nothing at all - is a sheer single incentive for crooks to continue.
A compromise, a further better way of investigation beyond 'tribunals' must be found and used.

Faolchu · 23-03-2012 10:40AM

dark crystal wrote: »

One thing I'm still not clear about - if Bertie is expelled from the FF party, will he still be entitled to his pension...

its a ministers pension and as he served as a minister then i would think he would be entitled to it regardless of being a party member or not because its related to his time in government ad not his time as a party member, i mean indos etc get ministers pensions if they hold ministerial positions.

Biggins · 23-03-2012 10:41AM

dark crystal wrote: »

One thing I'm still not clear about - if Bertie is expelled from the FF party, will he still be entitled to his pension...

Absolutely - all of them.

He was elected to the Dail - from which the pensions come.

ilovesleep · 23-03-2012 10:42AM

crusher000 wrote: »

To think the men of 1916 laid down their lives to get this countries Independance for the likes Bertie and the majority of our politicians could line their own pockets and break our nation. Do our politicians say an Oath on election to the Dail? If so any politician found not only to be corrupt but incompetent should be charged in bringing the security of this State into jeopardy. I have said it before not on these forums and will say it again our politicans do not represent the majority of the citizens of this country whom are working class and until that day comes it will be always about them making more money and keeping the rest of us down. We need greater represntation for the working and poor classes (don't like using these terms but what's the alternatives) to truly reflect the demographic make up of Irelands population.

I'm almost in tears at the thought of it. The people of 1916 fought and died to free us from the english rule and for our independence just to have our very own screw us over.

dark crystal · 23-03-2012 10:44AM

Faolchu wrote: »

its a ministers pension and as he served as a minister then i would think he would be entitled to it regardless of being a party member or not because its related to his time in government ad not his time as a party member, i mean indos etc get ministers pensions if they hold ministerial positions.

Ah, ok thanks.

Was just thinking, sure why would Bertie give two ****es what this report says, when he still gets to live off the pigs back on a generous pension, making thousands from speeches etc.

He still has it made, no matter what findings this report came up with.

JerryHandbag · 23-03-2012 10:51AM

I'd love to know whats going on in Berties mind. Does he think that because of all the back-slapping over the Good Friday Agreement, or any other good that he might have done for people, that he can then turn around and undo all that 100 times over by being such a snake?

"Ah shur de peeple luv me so dey do, its ok if I act the cute hoor"

And by Christ, if its one thing Ireland does well, its cute hoors. Especially in the corridoors of power.

As for Pee Flynn, I can't look at his cocky head (especially on that Late Late show "performance") and not want to go into the corner and puke.

Greedy ****ing swines the lot of them

Johnny Bitte · 23-03-2012 10:51AM

And don't forget when the ****r kicks the bucket he'll get a nice big state funeral and everyone will come out to say what a grand chap he was and what he did for this country!!

steve9859 · 23-03-2012 10:51AM

A British MP was jailed for using expenses to build a little wooden house for the ducks in his pond ffs.....and there is zero chance of Bertie seeing the inside of a jail cell. It's insane!!!

kryogen · 23-03-2012 10:52AM

I can't help liking Bertie tbh.

Nice chap, very good with people, far more charismatic and likable then most eejit Irish politicians.

The Tribunal didn't even call him a liar in the legal sense of the word, there is a difference between that and not accepting his account. Also, is there not more important things to be focusing on now at this time? Making him a scapegoat is fun and all that, but the system that he was part of is and was the problem, whatever he did or didn't do you can bet he was not alone.

Thanks for the great work on the Good Friday Agreement (among other things)Bertie, especially the dedication shown after the passing of your mother. People are very rarely black and white, and while I don't believe he is a saint, I won't demonising him either. Not the worst by a long shot.

dark crystal · 23-03-2012 10:58AM

steve9859 wrote: »

A British MP was jailed for using expenses to build a little wooden house for the ducks in his pond ffs.....and there is zero chance of Bertie seeing the inside of a jail cell. It's insane!!!

Yep, and the former Icelandic prime minister is on trial for presiding over the economic collapse of his country, yet Bertie will never see the inside of a courtroom.

Biggins · 23-03-2012 11:00AM

kryogen wrote: »

I can't help liking Bertie tbh.

Nice chap, very good with people, far more charismatic and likable then most eejit Irish politicians.

The Tribunal didn't even call him a liar in the legal sense of the word, there is a difference between that and not accepting his account. Also, is there not more important things to be focusing on now at this time? Making him a scapegoat is fun and all that, but the system that he was part of is and was the problem, whatever he did or didn't do you can bet he was not alone.

Thanks for the great work on the Good Friday Agreement Bertie, especially the dedication shown after the passing of your mother. People are very rarely black and white, and while I don't believe he is a saint, I won't demonising him either. Not the worst by a long shot.

That was an advertisement on behalf of Aherns supporters, Kathryn Byrne, from Dublin South East, and Louth senator Mary White. :pac:

cournioni · 23-03-2012 11:03AM

kryogen wrote: »

I can't help liking Bertie tbh.

Nice chap, very good with people, far more charismatic and likable then most eejit Irish politicians.

Here in lies the problem. Politics shouldn't be about niceness. It's about running the country and making the right decisions for the good of its people. Bertie it seems, did it to line his own pockets.

NakedNNettles · 23-03-2012 11:07AM

kryogen wrote: »

I can't help liking Bertie tbh.

Nice chap, very good with people, far more charismatic and likable then most eejit Irish politicians.

The Tribunal didn't even call him a liar in the legal sense of the word, there is a difference between that and not accepting his account. Also, is there not more important things to be focusing on now at this time? Making him a scapegoat is fun and all that, but the system that he was part of is and was the problem, whatever he did or didn't do you can bet he was not alone.

Thanks for the great work on the Good Friday Agreement (among other things)Bertie, especially the dedication shown after the passing of your mother. People are very rarely black and white, and while I don't believe he is a saint, I won't demonising him either. Not the worst by a long shot.

Nice to see a bit of honesty, I applaud you for that.

In the end it wasn't Bertie who destroyed the country, it was the people.

We all knew about these scams he was pulling long before the 2007 election yet like a bunch of lemmings, off to the polling a whole bunch of you went and placed a tick in the FF box.

A few of you would want to get off that high horse.

benway · 23-03-2012 11:08AM

toexpress wrote: »

Digging further into things is really rather pointless. We all knew for quite some time what Bertie Ahern and many of his friends and colleagues were.

Yeah, but could we prove it?

Bear in mind, also, that the Tribunal made a something like €200m (can't remember the exact figure) back in taxes and Revenue penalties owing to they payments that were revealed. In fact, we're apparently in profit from the last four Tribunals, even only counting direct payments as a result of their investigations.

It's fashionable to bash the Tribunal on cost, and yeah, it's not an ideal system, but it sees to me that the same media outlets who are obsessing about the cost were conveniently close to FF in their day.

Let's not get distracted here, we can look at finding a better procedure further down the line.

steve9859 wrote: »

there is zero chance of Bertie seeing the inside of a jail cell.

dark crystal wrote: »

Bertie will never see the inside of a courtroom.

Keep talking like that and it'll only encourage the fckers. It's up to us to demand that action is taken, and make it clear that it will be noted against the government parties if they fail to do so.

NakedNNettles wrote: »

In the end it wasn't Bertie who destroyed the country, it was the people.

Ah here. Nice try, chief. Seems that FF's party line is to try to play into the Irish people's latent self-loathing. No dice here.

Yes, people were fools to vote for them, and yes people didn't keep a close enough eye on them, but it was the culture of corruption, gombeenism and cute hoorism that Fianna Fáil oversaw, and encouraged, that destroyed the country. Can't blame us for that.

Bertie Ahern statement/resignation

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