Countdown to Bertie Ahern's expulsion from FF

MadsL · 22-03-2012 06:49AM #1

With the Mahon publishing today (3 hours time as I write) how long will it take before Martin makes good on his promise that:

“When the final report of the Mahon Tribunal is published we will act without fear or favour against anyone who is shown to have abused their position in Fianna Fáil or in elected office,” he said this evening. “Action will be swift and comprehensive.”

Will we get an immediate expulsion of Bertie? Six months, a year or never?

Any predictions?

galwayrush · 22-03-2012 07:34AM

Thankfully he didn't realise one of his dreams, to be President.
Regarding the question, nothing will happen.

DrumSteve · 22-03-2012 10:03AM

Link to the report here:

http://www.flood-tribunal.ie/images/sitecontent_921.pdf

liammur · 22-03-2012 10:32AM

Ahern will probably be expelled. But he will remain a 'legend' within the party. Similar situation to Haughey.
Right now he is seen as a liability.

Dannyboy83 · 22-03-2012 10:46AM

“When the final report of the Mahon Tribunal is published we will act without fear or favour against anyone who is shown to have abused their position in Fianna Fáil or in elected office,” he said this evening. “Action will be swift and comprehensive.”

The final report of the Mahon tribunal has found that former taoiseach Bertie Ahern "failed to truthfully account for a total of IR£165,214.25 passing through accounts connected with him".

"Much of the explanation provided by former taoiseach Bertie Ahern as to the source of the substantial funds inquired into was deemed by the tribunal to be untrue," according to the report.

"Those findings of fact which are adverse to Mr Ahern and on occasion others clearly demonstrated that important aspects of Mr Ahern's evidence was rejected by the tribunal."

They haven't shown he abused his position... how convenient...

Get out of Jail Card for MM?

Kinski · 22-03-2012 10:51AM

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

They haven't shown he abused his position... how convenient...

Get out of Jail Card for MM?

Martin won't want or need a "Get Out of Jail Free" card. They'll expel Ahern.

bmaxi · 22-03-2012 10:59AM

Judging by all the back slapping that went on at the recent Ard Fheis. expulsion from FF, however long it takes, will just be tokenism.
If my suspicions are correct, the whole Mahon Tribunal will be a whitewash job, a judiciary beholden to politicians is unlikely to upset the apple cart no matter which circus is running the show. From the tidbits emerging it would appear that the worst that will be attributed to Ahern is, he was guilty of "creative accounting".

Tin Foil Hat · 22-03-2012 11:04AM

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

They haven't shown he abused his position... how convenient...

Get out of Jail Card for MM?

Hardly. It would have been much easier for MM if this report stated in balck and white that Ahern was a crook.

corkonion · 22-03-2012 11:17AM

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

Hardly. It would have been much easier for MM if this report stated in balck and white that Ahern was a crook.

I agree, now MM cannot win, whatever he does now will be seen to be wrong, However I still believe that Bertie will be expelled.

Sierra Oscar · 22-03-2012 11:17AM

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

They haven't shown he abused his position... how convenient...

Get out of Jail Card for MM?

Hardly. It would have been much easier for MM if this report stated in balck and white that Ahern was a crook.

No doubt, but I think there will be a sufficent case put forward to expel Ahern.

Many thought that the report would let Bertie off lightly, i.e. claim his evidence had to be approached with caution but leave it at that.

Instead Mahon has pretty much dismissed all of Aherns evidence. The writing is on the wall for Ahern.

who the fug · 22-03-2012 11:18AM

Bertie is to Martin what CJ was to Bertie

Better keep Bertie in the tent pissing out

Laois_Man · 22-03-2012 11:23AM

Seriously, who the **** cares whether Ahern and/or Flynn are expelled from a Party they were yesterdays news in anyway!

Two things will annoy me about this;

1) That no criminal proceedings will be taken against anyone,

2) That expulsion of a person from a political party where that persons political career is already finished anyway will result in the current gob****es at the FF top table thinking they're some sort of hero's and will probably start calling themselves "The Peoples party" or some ****e like that because of it. They might even get a bump in the polls because of it!!

Sierra Oscar · 22-03-2012 11:29AM

Thomas Byrne has said he finds it hard to see Bertie remaining a member of the party. He has also stated that FF will be sending a report to the director of public prosecutions in regards the report.

who the fug · 22-03-2012 11:34AM

For Bertie to be charged there must be some political will to investigate and charge him, do you think Enda would want that.

Hope Mr. Martin does not use a Dail pre paid envelope when he sends it to the DPP

thecommietommy · 22-03-2012 12:09PM

liammur wrote: »

Ahern will probably be expelled. But he will remain a 'legend' within the party. Similar situation to Haughey.
Right now he is seen as a liability.

Indeed, I remember the Sindo and Evening Herald trying to manufacture " Haughey the lovable rogue " twist on his total corruption :mad:

MadsL · 22-03-2012 02:34PM

Laois_Man wrote: »

Seriously, who the **** cares whether Ahern and/or Flynn are expelled from a Party they were yesterdays news in anyway!

Two things will annoy me about this;

1) That no criminal proceedings will be taken against anyone,

2) That expulsion of a person from a political party where that persons political career is already finished anyway will result in the current gob****es at the FF top table thinking they're some sort of hero's and will probably start calling themselves "The Peoples party" or some ****e like that because of it. They might even get a bump in the polls because of it!!

I agree about your two points, but it will speak volumes if MM does not act against Ahern. Equally the publication of the findings could lead to someone now speaking up about the source of Berties 'digout'.

jmayo · 22-03-2012 06:15PM

MadsL wrote: »

I agree about your two points, but it will speak volumes if MM does not act against Ahern. Equally the publication of the findings could lead to someone now speaking up about the source of Berties 'digout'.

Sorry the only way anyone will speak up is if their balls are caught in a vice.
So it was with dunlop and grainne caruth.

Most of the ones involved have somehting to lose by speaking out, much like with the knowledge around before the bank guarantee.
We need someone to find religion big time or someone like flynn to put their foot in it big time.

Mr.Micro · 22-03-2012 06:22PM

jmayo wrote: »

Sorry the only way anyone will speak up is if their balls are caught in a vice.
So it was with dunlop and grainne caruth.

Most of the ones involved have somehting to lose by speaking out, much like with the knowledge around before the bank guarantee.
We need someone to find religion big time or someone like flynn to put their foot in it big time.

Ahern was at the recent Ard Fheis..... Martin will not throw him out. The report will be cited as not actually calling Ahern corrupt. Also Bertie probably knows a few things ?.... he is not one to quietly, hence his appearance at the FF Ard Fheis?

Dirk Gently · 22-03-2012 06:24PM

more interestingly is what will MM do about those FF ministers that mahon says sought to undermine the tribunal. How will he deal with them without dealing with himself too. Lab and FG also have questions to answer about their own councillors.

Mr.Micro · 22-03-2012 06:31PM

Dirk Gently wrote: »

more interestingly is what will MM do about those FF ministers that mahon says sought to undermine the tribunal. How will he deal with them without dealing with himself too. Lab and FG also have questions to answer about their own councillors.

A tough one, but I am sure the politicians will smooth everything over and continue as before. Imagine if the tribunal had looked at every County Council in Ireland. The Mahon report would only be the tip of the iceberg with regards to corruption IMO.

johngalway · 22-03-2012 06:35PM

I'd be surprised if MM does much of anything, he has the spine of a jellyfish.

Dirk Gently · 22-03-2012 06:37PM

all MM can do is offer up Bertie and lie low for a week or so until this all blows over. MM is unfortunately linked in with the next level of names who tried to undermine the tribunal. He can hardly sanction the likes of willie o dea without incriminating himself.

EchoO · 22-03-2012 06:47PM

I remember Micheal Martin being one of the pack of ff'ers sent out to defend Bertie's laughable evidence to tribunal. So I assume he is one of the ministers refered to in the report .... “(the tribunal) came under sustained and virulent attack from a number of senior government ministers who questioned, inter alia, the legality of its inquiries as well as the integrity of its members. There appears little doubt that the objective of these extraordinary and unprecedented attacks on the tribunal was to undermine the efficient conduct of the tribunal’s inquiries, erode its independence and collapse its inquiry into that individual."

If he is, then surely he and FF should be looking at his own position as head of the party.

Dirk Gently · 22-03-2012 06:56PM

EchoO wrote: »

If he is, then surely he and FF should be looking at his own position as head of the party.

yeah, if they were serious about their new reforming agenda then yes they would remove all those involved but this isn't about ending corruption or punishing those involved, it's about damage limitation. Expect Bertie to be offered up as a sacrificial lamb and nothing more.

Mr.Micro · 22-03-2012 07:08PM

johngalway wrote: »

I'd be surprised if MM does much of anything, he has the spine of a jellyfish.

I saw Martin on the news this evening and he appears already to be rowing back when asked about expelling Ahern from FF, muttering something about the wording of the report. Bertie the man who knows too much.

EchoO · 22-03-2012 07:11PM

Dirk Gently wrote: »

yeah, if they were serious about their new reforming agenda then yes they would remove all those involved but this isn't about ending corruption or punishing those involved, it's about damage limitation. Expect Bertie to be offered up as a sacrificial lamb and nothing more.

It's a pity the tribunal did go as far as naming the Ministers in question. If Martin or O'Dea had been actually named, their positions would simply be untenable.

walshb · 22-03-2012 07:29PM

I know it's clear that most of these politicians have brass necks, but I wonder how Cecelia and Georgina feel when they read such damning articles relating to their father?

Tin Foil Hat · 22-03-2012 07:35PM

walshb wrote: »

I know it's clear that most of these politicians have brass necks, but I wonder how Cecelia and Georgina feel when they read such damning articles relating to their father?

Probably the same as P. Flynn's daughter, I'd say?

raymon · 22-03-2012 08:00PM

Bertie should be allowed to stay in FF . Nobody represents the FF core values more

Mr.Micro · 22-03-2012 08:16PM

raymon wrote: »

Bertie should be allowed to stay in FF . Nobody represents the FF core values more

Indeed, the other political parties are probably hoping he will stay. He is FF, and if Martin really does want the party to be renewed, as he has talked about at length in the last year, he needs to start from now, with the likes of Ahern publicly dismissed from FF. Not likely, as he himself, was for 11 years a Minister and part of Ahern's Government.

later12 · 22-03-2012 09:32PM

I think there's no doubt but that Ahern will be kicked out of the party.

That is, if he is still a member. I would presume so.

I'm not even sure how an individual can be kicked out. Anyone know what the process is? Any precedent?

Countdown to Bertie Ahern's expulsion from FF

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