Syrian Rebels Lose Their Halo

cyberhog · 21-03-2012 06:25AM #1

Syria's armed rebels have committed "serious human rights abuses," including kidnappings and torture, and reportedly executions, of security personnel and civilians, Human Rights Watch said Tuesday.

The group painted a dark picture that is in stark contrast to the "freedom fighter" image that the rebels and their political allies outside Syria have sought to project to the world.

In an open letter to the opposition, Human Rights Watch depicts a decentralized, disparate guerrilla structure in which armed groups seem to operate with complete autonomy, sometimes acting on sectarian motives to kidnap and kill security force members and civilians considered pro-government.

...

In its latest report, the group includes statements from witnesses suggesting that some insurgent atrocities may stem from animosity against minority sects, notably Shiite Muslims and members of the offshoot Alawite sect.

One Syrian activist, identified only as Mazen, told Human Rights Watch that members of one armed faction known as the Abu Issa group had kidnapped pro-government residents in northern Idlib province and tortured three of them to death.

...

In one especially grisly episode, an Alawite resident of Homs told the rights group that armed gang members entered his neighborhood on Jan. 23 and took his elderly parents from the family home. The gang leader first demanded money, but the man's parents later were found dead, their bodies displayed in a YouTube video, the report says.

"This is a sectarian crime," the son, identified only as Marwan, told Human Rights Watch. "My father has nothing to do with the government."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-syria-rights-report-20120321,0,3882780.story

The facade of courageous freedom fighters battling ruthless Syrian forces is beginning to crumble. Syria and its people are under attack from murderous, deceitful extremists who are committing acts of terrorism in a desperate attempt to destabilise the country. The Syrian government should do everything it can to protect the people from the sectarian extremists and terrorists that make up the insurgency.

JustinDee · 21-03-2012 08:05AM

cyberhog wrote: »

The Syrian government should do everything it can to protect the people . . .

The Syrian regime will protect only themselves, as they have been doing since assuming power.

NakedNNettles · 21-03-2012 08:17AM

cyberhog wrote: »

The facade of courageous freedom fighters battling ruthless Syrian forces is beginning to crumble. Syria and its people are under attack from murderous, deceitful extremists who are committing acts of terrorism in a desperate attempt to destabilise the country. The Syrian government should do everything it can to protect the people from the sectarian extremists and terrorists that make up the insurgency.

Shame on you, Cyberhog

If you had any seen any of the recent documentaries reported from Syria, you would think twice. Only the hardest of hearts could ally themselves with a regime that murders innocent children.

Take your propaganda elsewhere.

You should hang your head in shame there lad. Karma comes to all in the end.

Palmach · 21-03-2012 08:21AM

NakedNNettles wrote: »

Shame on you, Cyberhog

If you had any seen any of the recent documentaries reported from Syria, you would think twice. Only the hardest of hearts could ally themselves with a regime that murders innocent children.

Take your propaganda elsewhere.

You should hang your head in shame there lad. Karma comes to all in the end.

How is it propaganda? He is quoting HRW.

NinjaK · 21-03-2012 08:27AM

Only stupid people thought they had a halo in the first place, there are no 'good guys'. There are just people the west supports and those they dont.

Sponge Bob · 21-03-2012 08:31AM

Her is a helpful link for that poster. Human Rights Watch are a well known independent NGN, Shame on YOU for not knowing that much.

http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/03/20/syria-armed-opposition-groups-committing-abuses

Armed opposition elements have carried out serious human rights abuses, Human Rights Watch said today in a public letter to the Syrian National Council (SNC) and other leading Syrian opposition groups

Nodin · 21-03-2012 08:41AM

cyberhog wrote: »

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-syria-rights-report-20120321,0,3882780.story

The facade of courageous freedom fighters battling ruthless Syrian forces is beginning to crumble. Syria and its people are under attack from murderous, deceitful extremists who are committing acts of terrorism in a desperate attempt to destabilise the country. The Syrian government should do everything it can to protect the people from the sectarian extremists and terrorists that make up the insurgency.

So the Syrian government hasn't committed abuses of a similar nature then?

biko · 21-03-2012 09:30AM

Just because there is an uprising it doesn't mean the rebels are much better than the people they're trying to replace.
As usual the civilians are the biggest losers, as in any conflict.

mike65 · 21-03-2012 10:10AM

The reaction to Cyberhogs propaganda is understandable, why he is is so hostile to regime change in the middle east is up to him to explain but at every turn he highlights the downside to any force that opposes dictators while blithely overlooking the excesses of same.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 21-03-2012 10:12AM

well it's fair enough to point out that the west's darling freedom fighters don't appear to be any/much better than the regime they're fighting. As usual it'd just be best for the west to stay out of it, unlikely as that is to happen.

mike65 · 21-03-2012 10:14AM

Omelettes and Eggs, its always omelettes and eggs.

donaghs · 21-03-2012 10:15AM

Nodin wrote: »

So the Syrian government hasn't committed abuses of a similar nature then?

That's silly, almost all the media coverage is of the government's atrocities. The OP is just pointing out that its not a one-way affair.

Interesting reading Robert Fisk's Independent articles on Syria recently. I get the impression he believes the regime will survive as enough Syrians are more afraid of the alternative, e.g. an intolerant Sunni-theocracy.

biko · 21-03-2012 10:23AM

mike65 wrote: »

The reaction to Cyberhogs propaganda is understandable, why he is is so hostile to regime change in the middle east is up to him to explain but at every turn he highlights the downside to any force that opposes dictators while blithely overlooking the excesses of same.

If previous uprisings is anything to go by then the new overlords won't be much better than the old one's.

mike65 · 21-03-2012 10:27AM

Well if that's not a compelling reason for oppressed people to do nothing....

garhjw · 21-03-2012 10:31AM

i think the general public perception of these uprisings can be "good vs evil" a lot of the time. that is very very rarely what is actually happening. i think that is all the OP was pointing out.

czx · 21-03-2012 10:41AM

biko wrote: »

Just because there is an uprising it doesn't mean the rebels are much better than the people they're trying to replace.
As usual the civilians are the biggest losers, as in any conflict.

Except when Che Guevara is involved, right?

Laminations · 21-03-2012 10:41AM

mike65 wrote: »

Well if that's not a compelling reason for oppressed people to do nothing....

Yes. Because they are the only options - kidnap, torture, execute or do nothing.

Not that cyberhogs suggestions are supportable

cyberhog wrote: »

The Syrian government should do everything it can to protect the people from the sectarian extremists and terrorists that make up the insurgency.

Would that include kidnap, torture and execution? Mass indiscriminate killings? Do you want to qualify that 'do everything they can' remark?

We should only support regime change if it's a change for the better, towards democratic self governance. But in this and most conflicts we should always support the innocent civilians caught in between.

Jonny7 · 21-03-2012 11:57AM

Few are suggesting that the rebels in Syria are whiter than white - its practically a civil war, there is now violence on both sides.

Demonising the rebels and opposition in Syria is not the same as understanding them, and is clearly just an effort to continue using Syria as a proxy for some other agenda, carefully ignoring the root cause of the violence.

Assad clearly intends to hold onto power by any means necessary. Even if he goes or is ousted, there will be a lot of violence, reprisals, upheaval - he and his brother and the regime bare the burden of responsibility and culpability for bringing their country down this path.

Defiler Of The Coffin · 21-03-2012 12:10PM

As the article says; there is no one 'opposition' to the Assad regime, there are numerous groups fighting to bring down the Syrian government, all of which are poorly-armed and vastly outnumbered by government forces. It's not a case of the entire opposition being a motley crew of terrorists and murderers as the OP seems to be implying. I haven't seen any reports of atrocities carried out by rebels that comes close to what the government has committed.

Nodin · 21-03-2012 12:58PM

donaghs wrote: »

That's silly, almost all the media coverage is of the government's atrocities. The OP is just pointing out that its not a one-way affair.

............

I suggest you re-read his OP, as he's suggesting rather more than that.

Border-Rat · 21-03-2012 02:38PM

biko wrote: »

Just because there is an uprising it doesn't mean the rebels are much better than the people they're trying to replace.
As usual the civilians are the biggest losers, as in any conflict.

It all depends on how the TV presents it for most.

RichieC · 21-03-2012 03:34PM

It would be the evil rebels all over the papers if the yanks had as much investment in Syria as Russia do.

Einhard · 21-03-2012 09:37PM

Wow, quelle surprise that cyberhog sets up another thread dedicated to the evils deeds of those rebelling against dictators. Never seems to get too bothered about the leaders themselves though....unless they're of the elected, Israeli sort that is.

RichieC · 21-03-2012 10:22PM

Einhard wrote: »

Wow, quelle surprise that cyberhog sets up another thread dedicated to the evils deeds of those rebelling against dictators. Never seems to get too bothered about the leaders themselves though....unless they're of the elected, Israeli sort that is.

Not much to add, so, Einhard?

Lantus · 21-03-2012 11:53PM

Since the beginning of this 'developing situation' I hae looked with dispair at our media that seems to report in the mainstream predominantly about innocent syrians being killed by an oppresive and evil regime. If the west has to intervene then who benefits?

why do we never get to hear the other side of the story? who are we to decide what is right or wrong in another country? What side would we take today if the media portrays the confederates as being freedom fighters against an oppressive regime?

We are far too easily engaging our armed forces in other countries (or about to in the likes or Iran) based on the tenuous precedence of iraq and afghanistan (which were both false) and it's troubling. We are becoming judge and jury for the world based on the the geo political intentions of a very small number of people and it's not right.

The media campaing will no doubt justify our war mongering and the use of words like freedom fighters will galvanise our sense of wrong doing and justification that our ultimate weapons of war should lay utter waste to this country. A country almost none of us has ever set foot in or lived in. While wrong doing does occur and will always exist we should be mindful of being so eager to wage war on a people we know almost nothing about except what our highly controlled media tells us.

HamletOrHecuba · 22-03-2012 12:22AM

NakedNNettles wrote: »

If you had any seen any of the recent documentaries reported from Syria, you would think twice. Only the hardest of hearts could ally themselves with a regime that murders innocent children.

So you believe only the hardest of hearts would have allied with the British and Americans in WWII?

HamletOrHecuba · 22-03-2012 12:26AM

Einhard wrote: »

Wow, quelle surprise that cyberhog sets up another thread dedicated to the evils deeds of those rebelling against dictators. Never seems to get too bothered about the leaders themselves though....unless they're of the elected, Israeli sort that is.

Assad is evil- but he is by far the lesser evil. Pointing out the evil he opposes is not necessarily siding with him, and any way he has made more than enough concessions to the point that there is no justification at all for the continued rebellion. Learn the lessons of Libya and learn them well.

SamHarris · 22-03-2012 02:08AM

RichieC wrote: »

Not much to add, so, Einhard?

A little more than you, it would seem.

Hardly surprising some of the rebels are less than clean, does it change what the moves should be for a government to be established with an ounce of authority and legitimacy? Hardly.

SamHarris · 22-03-2012 02:17AM

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

Assad is evil- but he is by far the lesser evil. Pointing out the evil he opposes is not necessarily siding with him, and any way he has made more than enough concessions to the point that there is no justification at all for the continued rebellion. Learn the lessons of Libya and learn them well.

Again, hardly the point. He is a murdering dictator, the only proven method we have for establishing a government with legitmacy, particularly after such slaughter if free and fair elections. One major body is opposing this with all its power, that is the Syrian regime.

Its sad to see how childishly alot of people seem to form their opinion on a given event. I could tell the "side" various posters would take in nearly any conflict merely by listening to what major western powers say concerning it. If they make postive tones towards one side, it will be their enemy. That this cartoonish thinking can so quickly and easily be seen again and again, throughout this site and in various publications is a sad reflection of the enormous moral and intelectual decline of the mainstream left over the last 2 decades.

Hannibal · 22-03-2012 03:04AM

donaghs wrote: »

That's silly, almost all the media coverage is of the government's atrocities. The OP is just pointing out that its not a one-way affair.

Interesting reading Robert Fisk's Independent articles on Syria recently. I get the impression he believes the regime will survive as enough Syrians are more afraid of the alternative, e.g. an intolerant Sunni-theocracy.

it was the same with Libya, attempts to demonise Gaddafi to the highest extent just to enable NATO to pursue a decades long agenda to topple him while the so called "rebels" were no better.

SamHarris · 22-03-2012 03:53AM

Dotsey wrote: »

it was the same with Libya, attempts to demonise Gaddafi to the highest extent just to enable NATO to pursue a decades long agenda to topple him while the so called "rebels" were no better.

Are you implying there is some sort of cabinet that directs the world media? If so please, share your evidence with the world.

If NATO did have a decades long agenda to destroy Gadaffi, it really is irrelevant, and one could argue entirelly justified. You may be willing to take the risk that a dicatator is merely "joking" when he is threatening to go door to door in a city killing any "rat" he finds. However, for the international community this is one of the tell tale signs that a massacare is about to take place.

Really alot of these posts are more CT stuff, hinting at some sort of shadow power controlling world media. Your all also under the eronious (and entirelly childish) assumption that because one side is "demonised" or slaughtering people it must mean the other is "angelic" and free of any wrong doing. Why?

Syrian Rebels Lose Their Halo

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