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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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    #5642
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    My name is URL wrote: »
    I'd genuinely be surprised if at the end of all this; the overall tax-take exceeds the costs of implementing it.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/pressure-to-scrap-parking-fees-as-councils-lose-money-3026973.html

    Which is exactly what will happen. Asking an in-efficient dinosaur to eat cash faster than we can feed it. That's the actual reality.


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    #5643
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    RTE news just reported that only one sixth of those liable for the charge, so far have now paid it.


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    #5644
    egan2020
    Registered Users Posts: 567 ✭✭✭egan2020


    dvpower wrote: »
    It seems to me that the stamp duty database would be a useful primary datasource.

    IMO this is the most obvious way the government would collect details. Even where stamp duty was not paid on the purchase of a house, every single purchase was recorded with the Revenue Commissioners with purchaser's PPS number.


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    #5645
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Gingernuts31 wrote: »
    Id love to know where these figures come from. A grand you say? It won't be years to track down everyone who hasn't paid. Its only a matter of cross checking the ESB names and address's with those off the HHC database of who has and hasn't paid. Those who haven't paid can be sure of a letter by June id say.

    A letter for what ?
    Is it to remind us that we are refusing to pay ? Sure we know that already.


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    #5646
    melekalikimaka
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    eventually it will being to make money, once the subborn numpties get their late fees


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    #5647
    max 73
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭max 73


    I disagree with this "charge/tax" call it what you will but what i'ld like to know why there are exemptions


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    #5648
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    egan2020 wrote: »
    IMO this is the most obvious way the government would collect details. Even where stamp duty was not paid on the purchase of a house, every single purchase was recorded with the Revenue Commissioners with purchaser's PPS number.

    There's still many houses that haven't changed ownership in generations.


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    #5649
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    squod wrote: »
    And do what? Send the bill to Australia?
    Well, I suppose if people want to emigrate to Australia to avoid the tax ... :rolleyes:
    squod wrote: »
    Are you for real?
    Quite.


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    #5650
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    They have to be very specific in legislation.

    In this section—

    “Act of 2010” means the Value-Added Tax Consolidation Act 2010;
    “relevant person” means—
    (a) the Private Residential Tenancies Board established under
    section 150 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004,
    (b) the Electricity Supply Board established in accordance
    with the Electricity (Supply) Act 1927,
    (c) the Revenue Commissioners,
    (d) the Minister for Social Protection, or
    (e) any other person standing prescribed for the time being;
    “specified enactment” means—
    (a) the Tax Acts,
    (b) the Capital Gains Tax Acts,
    (c) the Act of 2010,
    (d) the Stamp Duties Consolidation Act 1999, or
    (e) the Act of 2003;
    “tax reference number” means—
    (a) in relation to an individual, that individual’s personal
    public service number (within the meaning of section 262
    of the Act of 2005), or
    (b) in relation to a body corporate—
    (i) the reference number stated on any return of income
    form or notice of assessment issued to that person
    by an officer of the Revenue Commissioners, or
    (ii) the registration number of the body corporate for the
    purposes of the Act of 2010.

    Who gives a **** where they get peoples details from?
    It's one thing knowing where people are, it's another thing getting them to pay.
    My home is in joint names, I wonder who they'll come after for it.


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    #5651
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    Biggins wrote: »
    RTE news just reported that only one sixth of those liable for the charge, so far have now paid it.


    i emailed them earlier today as to how accurate this was, (whether the figure they quoted included those who had registered for a waiver).
    no response as of yet, (which is as much as i expected from them:rolleyes:)


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    #5652
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    Gingernuts31 wrote: »
    Id love to know where these figures come from. A grand you say? It won't be years to track down everyone who hasn't paid. Its only a matter of cross checking the ESB names and address's with those off the HHC database of who has and hasn't paid. Those who haven't paid can be sure of a letter by June id say.

    Oooooh, a letter you say, I'm ****ting myself already.
    I wonder will that letter have to be registered, I don't accept registered letters myself.


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    #5653
    melekalikimaka
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    Who gives a **** where they get peoples details from?
    It's one thing knowing where people are, it's another thing getting them to pay.
    My home is in joint names, I wonder who they'll come after for it.

    the maturity of some posters is shocking, I can't believe some of them actually have homes in the first place.

    misdirected anger and pettiness with a dash of misplaced pride


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    #5654
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    dvpower wrote: »
    Well, I suppose if people want to emigrate to Australia to avoid the tax ... :rolleyes:

    You know the emigration figures. If you're going to keep standing up for an unfair tax at least let people know you're OK with tax dodging once it's done in another jurisdiction.

    I suspect you're also fine with rich folk avoiding it too. (Non resident multi-millionaires who own properties in the state)


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    #5655
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    melekalikimaka wrote: »

    misdirected anger and pettiness with a dash of misplaced pride

    Misdirected anger?


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    #5656
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    egan2020 wrote: »
    IMO this is the most obvious way the government would collect details. Even where stamp duty was not paid on the purchase of a house, every single purchase was recorded with the Revenue Commissioners with purchaser's PPS number.
    I don't think there is any doubt at all about the ability to identify the defaulters. It is idiocy to suggest otherwise (abundant around here).

    The only question is around enforcement. That's the real game.


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    #5657
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    melekalikimaka wrote: »
    eventually it will being to make money, once the subborn numpties get their late fees

    :pac:


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    #5658
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    i emailed them earlier today as to how accurate this was, (whether the figure they quoted included those who had registered for a waiver).
    no response as of yet, (which is as much as i expected from them:rolleyes:)
    Bank Holiday Monday


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    #5659
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    dvpower wrote: »
    How so?
    It seems to me that once they have access to the various data sources, the data matching is a fairly simple matter. It used to be quite difficult in the distant past to match people with variations of their names and address in different databases, but the technology is quite advanced now.

    I think people should be wary of taking advise that the task is too big.

    As I've said DV, what difference will it make if they 'know where you live' or not.
    I still won't pay, and all these threats by Big Phil make me even more determined not to.


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    #5660
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    melekalikimaka wrote: »
    the maturity of some posters is shocking, I can't believe some of them actually have homes in the first place.

    misdirected anger and pettiness with a dash of misplaced pride

    More artillery being brought into this thread now.
    Too late. The war is lost.


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    #5661
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    i emailed them earlier today as to how accurate this was, (whether the figure they quoted included those who had registered for a waiver).
    no response as of yet, (which is as much as i expected from them:rolleyes:)

    I can't quote that the figure is accurate but I came across it here:

    * http://www.thejournal.ie/people-using-household-charge-to-express-their-anger-says-wallace-389555-Mar2012/
    So far just one sixth of homeowners have signed up for the household charge. Deputy Wallace said the government has “underestimated the amount of anger out in the country”.

    The figure was quoted on insideireland.ie › Business & News - but the site link seems to be down at the moment.

    I guess they might have sources in the relevant government collection department.


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    #5662
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    egan2020 wrote: »
    IMO this is the most obvious way the government would collect details. Even where stamp duty was not paid on the purchase of a house, every single purchase was recorded with the Revenue Commissioners with purchaser's PPS number.

    Wow! another way to find out where you live.

    I'm at my wits end here, what with the letters and the fact that they have my address, I don't know what to do, all this worry and stress. NOT!


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    #5663
    melekalikimaka
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    tayto lover wrote: »
    More artillery being brought into this thread now.
    Too late. The war is lost.

    have they retracted the tax? no still there. sorry my mistake thought you were right for a moment


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    #5664
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    As I've said DV, what difference will it make if they 'know where you live' or not.
    I still won't pay, and all these threats by Big Phil make me even more determined not to.
    That's because, Gerry, you are a person of high principle. You'll refuse to pay come what may, up to the point (and beyond) that you are held in contempt of court for failing to follow a direction.

    But others won't have your fortitude.


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    #5665
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    dvpower wrote: »
    Bank Holiday Monday


    Still would expect someone to be working in the news department. im sure im bottom of their priorty list though lol


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    #5666
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    srsly78 wrote: »
    They should just collect it through the electricity bill like they do in Greece, cut people off if they don't pay. All the internet hardcases would fall in line pretty quickly then. These new law changes facilitate exactly this kind of stuff.

    I have a backup generator, happy days!
    God, you pro-tax muppets are getting more desperate by the day!


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    #5667
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    Biggins wrote: »
    I can't quote that the figure is accurate but I came across it here:

    * http://www.thejournal.ie/people-using-household-charge-to-express-their-anger-says-wallace-389555-Mar2012/



    The figure was quoted on insideireland.ie › Business & News - but the site link seems to be down at the moment.

    I guess they might have sources in the relevant government collection department.



    this is the sentence i queried, (from rte website)

    By last Friday, over 260,000 households of the 1.6 million liable had paid the charge.


    just wondering were they padding it by saying paid instead of registered (im sure the no side wouldnt do that :D)


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    #5668
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    I have a backup generator, happy days!
    Gerry is going off matrix to avoid the tax. Admirable determination.


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    #5669
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    melekalikimaka wrote: »
    the maturity of some posters is shocking, I can't believe some of them actually have homes in the first place.

    misdirected anger and pettiness with a dash of misplaced pride

    Your a funny person.
    Now it's the maturity of people that's in question because they stand up for themselves.
    As you call people 'numpties'.
    Good chap.


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    #5670
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    dvpower wrote: »
    That's because, Gerry, you are a person of high principle. You'll refuse to pay come what may, up to the point (and beyond) that you are held in contempt of court for failing to follow a direction.

    But others won't have your fortitude.

    This government needs a wake up call, DV, otherwise they'll go the same way as the last 3 administrations. It's up to the citizens to keep them in check.
    I'm sure you wouldn't disagree with me there.


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    #5671
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    dvpower wrote: »
    Gerry is going off matrix to avoid the tax. Admirable determination.
    Only if I have to, the price of diesel is going up too....


This discussion has been closed.
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