Copyright Question

pistonsvox wrote: »

Just curious what are the copyright laws in "riffs"? Is the recorded music copyright law regaraded as in full compositions or can you get sued for even using 2 bars or so of a similar phrase.

If the cool hearts didn't get clearance for using that sample, then they're open to being sued. The upside is, if they don't make any money, or don't have any money, they won't be sued.

You can't just sample riffs, however short, and use them without permission. Even tiny snippets. You can risk it. But if you end up getting a legal challenge, you could end up having to hand over all the money or at least a portion to whoever you sampled.

How many bars does it take for you to break mechanical recorded copyright law? Say if you recorded a song, which may have a similar riff or fill, and a friend or peer says to you, "that sounds exactly like this song..." Do you give up and start over, or risk the chance of a court case? Where does one draw the line?

There isn't a bar rule. Use a sample from someone else's record and there's a possibility you can be sued - if it's decided in court that the sample contributed to the success of the record, then a portion or all of the proceeds from that record could be handed over to whoever is doing the suing.

The Bressie riff is a simple common riff that thousands of people have done before. If you copied the riff - actually got a guitar and played those chords, they wouldn't have much chance suing you. If you can prove people have used the riff before Bressie, then in court Bressie can't make the claim that the riff belongs to them, and they didn't steal it from someone else.

Now days, people generally do not use original samples on records. If they have a budget, they may start with a sample - but then they go and record a soundalike snippet to replace the original sample. This means they generally do not have to pay anyone.

Though if there's something unique or instantly recognisable about the riff - even if you record your own version, you can be sued. If you recorded your own version of the Rollingstone's Satisfaction riff. Or Nirvana's Teen Spirit. You will be sued.

The Verve had to pay the Rolling Stones for a short sample the used on Bitter Sweet Symphony. I think the Rolling Stones got nearly everything from it.

Dance music producers mostly tend to get away with egregious sampling. Because there just isn't any money to be made from suing them. If you sample Queen...you'll get away with it, unless the record is successful. If it is successful, their publishers will simply seize it and all the royalties. They may even have the brass balls to release it themselves - with their publishing companies details on it. For a dance music producer you're onto a double loser - you'd have to prove it's not there's and since you've sampled their property, you'd have to pay them something, or everything, if you did win

You can always be sued. There's a saying, where there's a hit there's a writ. If you have a successful record. People will come out of the woodwork claiming they have a right to some or all of the royalties. R.E.M had to pay a royalty to the copyright holders of The Lion Sleeps Tonight for The Sidewinder Sleeps Tonite. U2 have had to pay and credit the RollingStones, Elton John, Joy Division, The people who wrote Send In The Clowns, all for little ad libs Bono has done on live recordings.

There's also a dirty trick publishers have used against each other. If they know a big record is about to be released. With a big marketing budget behind it. They can threaten to get a court injunction against the release unless they get paid off. So, they get paid off.

On the other hand people have gotten away with murder. Dinosaur Junior went as far as crediting the entire publishing for a cover of David Bowie's Quicksand to themselves.

Getting sued is only something you have to worry about if you become successful - unsuccessful people are never sued. And it's all about money.

pistonsvox wrote: »

It was actually the cool hearts that originally had that riff out first. And they're not samples. There was also a twitter post from Bressie claiming that he wrote that riff in the studio and shunned people who claimed it sounded like the cool hearts.

Yep......I've listened again. And it's not a sample. But it's not really anything you'd call a riff - it's a done to death chord progression. I've got G, D, Em, and then back again.

Bressie is not going to get sued by anyone. Because outside the world of "Irish ram our well connected mini-mini-celebs down your throat, until you think they're special because they're on RTE"..No one gives a shit who he is. If the record was internationally successful, he might have quite few problems - since it's "borrows" very heavily from lots of different people. Outside Gilligans Isle - AKA the republic of Ireland - or to give the place its' full title: The licensed vinters, small shop keepers and farmers, agricultural republic of the ancient peoples of Hibernia.

Bressie ain't no Van Morrison.

The riff wouldn't have caused Bressie problems, had the record been and international hit. Other parts would have.



Deacon Blue's publisher may have thought "Pay DAY!!!!"




Bressie isn't really a musican ........but he's done some cool stuff

My favourite!!!

I've realise something.

Because, I do music for fun and a hobby, and Am not dependant on it for a livelihood

I can say things that other people can't

Like

Bressie makes Linda Martin look like Scott Walker.

Removed a big chunk of stuff before I get in trouble for it