Is it time to Jack the Job

Farmer Pudsey · 11-03-2012 04:22PM #1

With the high personal rates of taxation top rate over 50% and charges such as household charge at present 100 euro and going to be around 500 euro in the medium term, water charges 250-300 euro, car fuel up 20% in last six months, College fees going up every year and no hope of a accomdation grant the treat to tax the childern allowance is it time for families earning less than 50,000 a year to jack the job and go on the dole queue

If they have paid for there house should they sell it enjoy the proceeds ( holidays, booze and what ever else take there fancy) so that when they jack the job they have to be housed by the local aurhority.

Also give up medical Insurance generally sponge off state

n900guy · 11-03-2012 04:24PM

Yeah, and even if you keep on struggling through for the next few decades, kids aged 2-3 years old now will be in debt for 100k to go to university once the government copies the UK and introduces 10k/year+ fees.

AltAccount · 11-03-2012 05:34PM

You're addressing this to families who make less than €50k a year but have fully paid for a house?

Farmer Pudsey · 11-03-2012 05:43PM

AltAccount wrote: »

You're addressing this to families who make less than €50k a year but have fully paid for a house?

Not in particular and for that matter house dosen't have to be fully paid up I am just looking at the general struggle that these people have ( along with a lot of other people) and wondering what is it for what benifit will they have in 10,20,30 years time

11-03-2012 06:03PM

Would a family earning a total of 50k being paying anything near a 50% rate of taxation? I somehow doubt it.

AlekSmart · 11-03-2012 06:25PM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Not in particular and for that matter house dosen't have to be fully paid up I am just looking at the general struggle that these people have ( along with a lot of other people) and wondering what is it for what benifit will they have in 10,20,30 years time

Farmer Pudsey,You make a valid point,which it appears,modern Irelands leadership has overlooked.

The so-called austerity era appears to have been targeted almost entirely on the "Contributing Classes",which unsurprisingly is a rapidly dwindling demographic.

However,the reality of Irelands Taxation setup is stark.....we were,for decades,woefully undertaxed and fed an entirely unsustainable notion about Property Ownership (equally untaxed) being a pre-requisite for a happy and productive life.

Coincedental to this was an explosion in the numbers of individuals who,for a variety of reasons,were facilitated in withdrawing from the world of "Contributing" altogether.

Every Irish Minister For Finance for years began his Budget Speech by outlining to the house just how many po folks would be "removed from the Tax net"....this sort of stuff did'nt conform to any notion of reality,never mind economics,but was immensely popular from a Political perspective.

However once embarked upon this No Tax=Good Policy,succesive Governments could never bring themselves to alter it.
Whats self-evident is that annually removing x numbers from the role of paying any Tax left the remainder with an ever increasing Tax burden to shoulder....

It was the sort of fiscal policy which could only come from an administration comprised of Professional Gamblers,Auctioneers,Developers,Publicans and "Promoters" of varying hues......God were'nt they great days altogether....:o

The sad thing is that we're still at it,apart from a brave few who point quivering fingers in the general direction of chateau despair....:eek:

Slydice · 11-03-2012 07:09PM

What would be good would be a decent visualisation of the money which you get in the various roles.

Maybe pie charts breaking down earnings into tax, take home, rent/mortgage etc for:
- single unemployed
- single employed
- married unemployed
- married employed

rasper · 11-03-2012 07:12PM

you make unemployment sound enjoyable, bearing in mind that that house tax, water rates, fuels , vat etc will hit the unemployed as well as those lucky enough to be in a job.
I wonder are there thousands of people giving the two fingers to their employers so they can join the party lifestyle of €188 a week, not to mention why thousands are leaving the country when their can live it up on the social.

And thankfully I have a job for the time being anyway

bryaner · 11-03-2012 07:21PM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

With the high personal rates of taxation top rate over 50% and charges such as household charge at present 100 euro and going to be around 500 euro in the medium term, water charges 250-300 euro, car fuel up 20% in last six months, College fees going up every year and no hope of a accomdation grant the treat to tax the childern allowance is it time for families earning less than 50,000 a year to jack the job and go on the dole queue

If they have paid for there house should they sell it enjoy the proceeds ( holidays, booze and what ever else take there fancy) so that when they jack the job they have to be housed by the local aurhority.

Also give up medical Insurance generally sponge off state

I'm just back working after 3 years on the dole-hell (20 years previous work) the job I'm at is not my life choice of work and the money is pretty low, but I've never been happier being back at the old slog and I nearly smile at the alarm clock at 5.30am, the dole and whatever alleged benefits is not the place to be..

bryaner · 11-03-2012 07:27PM

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Would a family earning a total of 50k being paying anything near a 50% rate of taxation? I somehow doubt it.

I think a married couple can earn around €63,000 before they jump into the 40% paye bracket

SBWife · 11-03-2012 07:38PM

bryaner wrote: »

I think a married couple can earn around €63,000 before they jump into the 40% paye bracket

And the 40% is a marginal rate their overall Paye rate is a weighted average of their earnings at the lower and higher rates.

bryaner · 11-03-2012 07:59PM

SBWife wrote: »

And the 40% is a marginal rate their overall Paye rate is a weighted average of their earnings at the lower and higher rates.

Aye well worth going to work for..

Farmer Pudsey · 11-03-2012 08:32PM

SBWife wrote: »

And the 40% is a marginal rate their overall Paye rate is a weighted average of their earnings at the lower and higher rates.

When USC and PRSI are taken into account the taxation rates are near 30% and over 50% for after you tax credits are used and all tax credits are credited at lower band of 20%

bryaner · 11-03-2012 08:57PM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

When USC and PRSI are taken into account the taxation rates are near 30% and over 50% for after you tax credits are used and all tax credits are credited at lower band of 20%

PRSI was always paid and USC we will just have to get over with i guess, but its still better working than being on the dole for me anyway..

Voltex · 11-03-2012 08:58PM

This is the reality of my situation...our household income is roughly 100K Gross...but over the last 18 months or so our disposable income has reduced by €1100 which nett of tax comes in at a rough 18% reduction.
We have made changes..so that we live according to our means...but the kicker is not knowin whats coming down the line...and what getting to me is that Ive worked so hard building our business..going to college part time in the evenings and becoming more qualified and ensuring more success for our company that has doubled its employment levels over the last 6 months...yet the prospects for me and my family are probably not here in Ireland.

GetWithIt · 12-03-2012 11:04AM

Just to add a bit of realism.

Many of the Social Welfare benefits discussed here are not available to anyone who simply jacks in their job. You will not Jobseekers Benefit. You will only receive Jobseekers Allowance on a means tested basis. The same for the medical card. Housing is allocated on a needs basis. Other benefits are at the discretion of the social welfare officer.

Other benefits, such as child allowance, are available on a universal basis.

Farmer Pudsey · 12-03-2012 08:54PM

GetWithIt wrote: »

Just to add a bit of realism.

Many of the Social Welfare benefits discussed here are not available to anyone who simply jacks in their job. You will not Jobseekers Benefit. You will only receive Jobseekers Allowance on a means tested basis. The same for the medical card. Housing is allocated on a needs basis. Other benefits are at the discretion of the social welfare officer.

Other benefits, such as child allowance, are available on a universal basis.

We relise all that so we are ( not me in prticular) thinking liquidating all our assets litererly and then getting the state to look after us, Life a struggle it would be nice not to have a large diesel bill every week as well as a little time off and after all after 20 years it would be nice not to have to get up in the morning and summertime is coming

Cool Mo D · 12-03-2012 10:52PM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

When USC and PRSI are taken into account the taxation rates are near 30% and over 50% for after you tax credits are used and all tax credits are credited at lower band of 20%

The amount of tax an average person pays will be a lot lower than the high rate, and probably under the low rate though.

A single person earning €30,000 a year will pay €5,055 in Income tax + PRSI + USC. That's a rate of 16.8%

A single person earning €60,000 a year will pay €20,067 in Income tax + PRSI + USC. That's a rate of 33.4%

At €100,000 a year, their overall rate will be 41%, and at €200,000 it will be 47%. Unless you are earning almost a million a year, your overall tax rate will be under 50%

cast_iron · 12-03-2012 10:58PM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Life a struggle it would be nice not to have a large diesel bill every week as well as a little time off and after all after 20 years it would be nice not to have to get up in the morning and summertime is coming

I think you've been reading a few too many tabloids.
Yes, there might well be no diesel bill. But then there's no car, because you can't afford it on the dole long term. There is no free state to those who lose (or jack in) their jobs.
Summertime? Personally I've found our winters more pleasant than our summers in recent years. And what would you do in the summer - on €180 odd, and that's not "spending money". That's ALL of your money.

Aside from that, lets put a couple of number on it.
Single person earning €45k: take home = €33,000 (that's €634 per week)
Single person on the JSA: take home = €9,776k (that's €188 per week)

That's €23,000 worth of "benefits" required every year before it even breaks even to be more beneficial on the dole.

cast_iron · 13-03-2012 12:15AM

geeman wrote: »

Transportation for work: 2k
Rent: 5k
Medical Bills: ??

Depending on how much you make, you might actually be better off on the dole, you'd certainly have less stress in your life....

Ok, lets revise my earlier earnings of €45k down to €30k:

Single person earning €30k: take home = €25,000 (that's €480 per week)

That still leaves a difference of €15k of benefits before you break even.

Lets take your estimates of €2k and €5k. We are left with an extra €7k per year. That's €135 per week. When your only income is aprox €180 per week, that extra €135 per week is actually quite alot.
My point is, I really don't see how the idea can make sense to someone financially. The mental implications of not working are an entire matter altogether.

Also, this country has free medical care (excluding gp visits).

Farmer Pudsey · 13-03-2012 01:07AM

Cool Mo D wrote: »

The amount of tax an average person pays will be a lot lower than the high rate, and probably under the low rate though.

A single person earning €30,000 a year will pay €5,055 in Income tax + PRSI + USC. That's a rate of 16.8%

A single person earning €60,000 a year will pay €20,067 in Income tax + PRSI + USC. That's a rate of 33.4%

At €100,000 a year, their overall rate will be 41%, and at €200,000 it will be 47%. Unless you are earning almost a million a year, your overall tax rate will be under 50%

You are averageing total tax take, after 50,000 I will be paying nearly 50% of all the money I am earning to the government if I liquidate all my assets I have three kids to send to 3rd level at 50,000 no grant. On unemployment grant 6100 and no regristration fee 2250 other childern's school will feel sorry for me so I will not have to contribute to it for general school costs also will not be charged for school exams get back to school allowances and if government decide to tax Child Allowance i still get it, free Medical card looking back over last 3 years doctor bills and prescriptions average 427 euro so adding all about 10000 euro if CA get taxed it probally cost 1000 euro. I also attend 7-8 GAA matches a year so I will get the reduced entry rate as well as to other events that off these kind of discounts

Our car is paid for a 2008 corolla diesel so low tax and maintenance and I will have time to do alot of the maintenance myself and i will also save at least 2500 in car fuel costs. Will have time to cut a bit of timber and save a bit of turf so will save 700-1000 on winter fuel bill I like to do a bit of fishing and shooting so a couple of free dinners a week I will have plenty of time to go for walks and live a healty stress free life.

So now will have nearly 400 euro from the state ever weekand over 15000 of my bill eliminated that is over 35,000 a year and as well as that I eliminate the chance of losing CA if they tax it.

naoise80 · 13-03-2012 09:33AM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

You are averageing total tax take, after 50,000 I will be paying nearly 50% of all the money I am earning to the government if I liquidate all my assets I have three kids to send to 3rd level at 50,000 no grant. On unemployment grant 6100 and no regristration fee 2250 other childern's school will feel sorry for me so I will not have to contribute to it for general school costs also will not be charged for school exams get back to school allowances and if government decide to tax Child Allowance i still get it, free Medical card looking back over last 3 years doctor bills and prescriptions average 427 euro so adding all about 10000 euro if CA get taxed it probally cost 1000 euro. I also attend 7-8 GAA matches a year so I will get the reduced entry rate as well as to other events that off these kind of discounts

Our car is paid for a 2008 corolla diesel so low tax and maintenance and I will have time to do alot of the maintenance myself and i will also save at least 2500 in car fuel costs. Will have time to cut a bit of timber and save a bit of turf so will save 700-1000 on winter fuel bill I like to do a bit of fishing and shooting so a couple of free dinners a week I will have plenty of time to go for walks and live a healty stress free life.

So now will have nearly 400 euro from the state ever weekand over 15000 of my bill eliminated that is over 35,000 a year and as well as that I eliminate the chance of losing CA if they tax it.

Who is this "state" you keep talking about that is going to look after you and your family, just because you are too lazy to take on that responsibility?

It is me and all the other taxpayers.

Kop yourself on and don't insult me with your leeching.

NakedNNettles · 13-03-2012 10:04AM

OP

You should definately jack in the job.

If anything it will provide an education in appreciating what you once had, because you clearly live in cloud cookoo land.

Head The Wall · 13-03-2012 12:40PM

Do you actually spend 427 a month on doctors and prescriptions?

n900guy · 13-03-2012 06:09PM

Cool Mo D wrote: »

The amount of tax an average person pays will be a lot lower than the high rate, and probably under the low rate though.

A single person earning €30,000 a year will pay €5,055 in Income tax + PRSI + USC. That's a rate of 16.8%

A single person earning €60,000 a year will pay €20,067 in Income tax + PRSI + USC. That's a rate of 33.4%

At €100,000 a year, their overall rate will be 41%, and at €200,000 it will be 47%. Unless you are earning almost a million a year, your overall tax rate will be under 50%

Net pay on 100k private sector is 59k (41%) or public sector 51k (49%).

For numbers around 30k, tax in Ireland is still way lower than it needs to be to pay for services like healthcare. Someone on 30k in Germany would be paying 10-11% every month for healthcare, not optional.

Welease · 13-03-2012 07:31PM

n900guy wrote: »

[
Net pay on 100k private sector is 59k (41%) or public sector 51k (49%).

For numbers around 30k, tax in Ireland is still way lower than it needs to be to pay for services like healthcare. Someone on 30k in Germany would be paying 10-11% every month for healthcare, not optional.

It's considerably higher than that.. 41% doesn't kick in until just under €42K for a married person (it's 20% below that), and you also have considerable tax credits to subtract before you even begin to pay tax at 20%..

The reality is that a married person on €100K will pay about 25-30K direct paye tax (plus USC)..

n900guy · 13-03-2012 08:42PM

Welease wrote: »

It's considerably higher than that.. 41% doesn't kick in until just under €42K for a married person (it's 20% below that), and you also have considerable tax credits to subtract before you even begin to pay tax at 20%..

The reality is that a married person on €100K will pay about 25-30K direct paye tax (plus USC)..

It includes credits, check www.taxcalc.eu.

Welease · 13-03-2012 09:19PM

n900guy wrote: »

It includes credits, check www.taxcalc.eu.

Ahh ok.. we were talking about different elements..

I mistakenly assumed your response to Cool Mo D was looking at the PAYE income tax aspect only which were the numbers he was using.. not including the USC, PRSI which you used etc..

Your 41% calc is correct when looking at the total gross minus government taxes/levies pay for a single person.

Farmer Pudsey · 13-03-2012 09:26PM

Head The Wall wrote: »

Do you actually spend 427 a month on doctors and prescriptions?

No this is the average over the last three years that we paid as a family in any year of doctor and medicine costs that if I was unemployed would be paid by a medical card.

I feel very upset over being called a leech I am just looking at the option's of myself and my wife of leaving the Rat Race

With our kids now starting 3rd level I feel I will be working for nothing I know that my employer avails of 3rd level grants for his kids he drives a 2011 Mercedes even though he has two in 3rd level and still gets the fees paid for his kids and full rate grant for one of his childern.

Even if I take on another job at the weekends nearly half the money is taken in USC and Tax so if he can get grant aided why should'nt I

I have 20 days holidays in the year and my wife the same however her employer makes her take 3 weeks in June and I have to take mine in August and she has to keep the 3 days for Christmas and so has only 2 other days so we have not had a holiday togeather for 10 years. If we go on holidays with the Kids only one or the other can go

We now see this as catching up time a couple of our friends have retires a year ago and seem to have a nice lifestyle Brien from Offaly, Dermot from Louth and John from South Kerry

bbam · 13-03-2012 09:27PM

In fairness things are hard at the moment... However growing up in the 70's i think things were worse then...
Most people don't want to just sit back and take handouts if they have another option... A job will still pay more than being on the scratcher,(you may need FIS) and if your lucky you may enjoy earning it too...

Also what example does it give if kids see you just giving up on life and society and intentionally making yourself unemployed...

Things ARE hard but it's all relative, it's not like we're living the life of those in 3rd world countries...

lmimmfn · 13-03-2012 10:25PM

cast_iron wrote: »

I think you've been reading a few too many tabloids.
Yes, there might well be no diesel bill. But then there's no car, because you can't afford it on the dole long term.

Not true, ive had several arguments here from those on welfare regarding a car and apparantly its a must have on welfare, who's going to drive the kids to school?

Is it time to Jack the Job

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