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What planet do these tree huggers live on?

  • 07-03-2012 07:13PM
    #1
    irishgeo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,024 ✭✭✭✭


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0307/slane.html

    Meanwhile, the Save Newgrange group has welcomed today's announcement and has called for the immediate implementation of a HGV ban of the village.
    Campaign spokesperson Vincent Salafia said: "This is a huge victory for heritage and sustainable development in Ireland.
    "The UNESCO World Heritage Site is our most popular tourist attraction, which will play a key role in our economic recovery, and it deserves the highest level of legal protection.
    "We urge the authorities to immediately implement a HGV ban in the village, in order to protect drivers, villagers and the heritage value of the village."

    I am all for protecting world hertiage sites but if Vincent thinks that newgrange is the solution to our economic problems he is very much mistaken unless we bump the admission price to 10k or something.

    I wonder what grip of reality these people have. Its a great site and we don't want roads running through it but it will not play a key role in our economic recovery.


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Immaculate Pasta
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭Immaculate Pasta


    Earth last time I checked :confused:


  • #3
    Rented Mule
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,154 ✭✭✭Rented Mule


    I'm going to guess that you are too young to remember when tourism WAS the economy.


  • #4
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    About time this HGV ban was brought in, that bridge in Slane is lethal...It's a bit away from Newgrange though

    More likely they refused it because of this:

    Other factors included the belief among board members that it had not been proven that no appropriate alternative was available, and it could have diverted traffic off the M1 tolled motorway.


  • #5
    staker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,677 ✭✭✭staker


    Vincent phrased it like that to garner public reaction, nothing more.
    I know cos he told me down the pub last night.


  • #6
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    Urrr. Pandora?


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  • #7
    44leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,137 ✭✭✭44leto


    Other factors included the belief among board members that it had not been proven that no appropriate alternative was available, and it could have diverted traffic off the M1 tolled motorway.

    This was probably the real reason. Besides Newgrange was actually restored, so its a modern construction using supposed ancient techniques, but the results are more an interpretation,(why they did that I will never know).


  • #8
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    44leto wrote: »
    This was probably the real reason. Besides Newgrange was actually restored, so its a modern construction using supposed ancient techniques, but the results are more an interpretation,(why they did that I will never know).

    Very true, they just guessed what it looked like


  • #9
    boynesider
    Closed Accounts Posts: 272 ✭✭boynesider


    This bypass would have no impact on Newgrange. It would be a few miles up the river and wouldn't even be visible from it. Ridiculous and unfair decision which will cost human life

    If our ancestors who built these structures could see the way we are constantly impeding progress and improvement for the sake of a few old stones, they would laugh at us


  • #10
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    boynesider wrote: »
    This bypass would have no impact on Newgrange. It would be a few miles up the river and wouldn't even be visible from it. Ridiculous and unfair decision which will cost human life

    If our ancestors who built these structures could see the way we are constantly impeding progress and improvement for the sake of a few old stones, they would laugh at us

    All the protesting against the M3 and it still went ahead, this has more to do with them loosing revenue off the toll bridge and not much to do with protecting heritage. I don't know how many more lives the bridge at Slane will have to take before something is done, (I hope none)


    If only there was a way we could channel the traffic from the Tolled M1 to the Tolled M3;)


  • #11
    44leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,137 ✭✭✭44leto


    boynesider wrote: »
    This bypass would have no impact on Newgrange. It would be a few miles up the river and wouldn't even be visible from it. Ridiculous and unfair decision which will cost human life

    If our ancestors who built these structures could see the way we are constantly impeding progress and improvement for the sake of a few old stones, they would laugh at us

    I wouldn't agree with you there it is a unesco heritage site, it is important, although it is on Irish soil it is still a world heritage site, it is our responsibility to care and preserve it. I think an alternative route is possible.

    The site is not just the chamber, the archeology site is all around the chamber for miles.


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  • #12
    bleg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,847 ✭✭✭bleg


    Dead right. Newgrange is amazing.


  • #13
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    44leto wrote: »
    I wouldn't agree with you there it is a unesco heritage site, it is important, although it is on Irish soil it is still a world heritage site, it is our responsibility to care and preserve it. I think an alternative route is possible.

    The site is not just the chamber, the archeology site is all around the chamber for miles.

    Correct, there is Knowth, Dowth and their many miles of ancient underground tunnels (a further educated "Boynesider" should know this!) as well Tara and that site too which has yet to be full excavated.

    I'm from Louth and also a "Boynesider", have been to the sites many times and has explored some of the tunnels.
    It would be a national crime in regards to Irish history and our heritage - what helps to make us Irish and thus more special, if these works went ahead where they did.
    There was alternative routes for the motorway but the then government (FF) for their own reasons (suspicious!) decided, no, we are just looking at this direction and refused to further entertain alternative routes.

    ...And whats with the "Treehugging" slur - get your facts right OP.
    This has got nothing to do with trees!


  • #14
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    Another Boards Thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055806967

    The road was planned to be 500m away from the buffer zone of Newgrange (There is a map of the buffer zone 3rd post in thread

    22 lives have already been lost at Slane and 1600 HGVs pass through there every day......

    Google map of directions from slane to newgrange


    Map of proposed (refused) route

    The bridge is falling apart and not fit for purpose


  • #15
    Mikros
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 508 ✭✭✭Mikros


    micropig wrote: »

    22 lives have already been lost at Slane and 1600 HGVs pass through there every day......

    Quoting a figure of 22 deaths going back to the 1980's is disingenuous in my opinion, there is hardly a stretch of national road in the country that wont give a similar figure over 30 years. This seems to be main argument made for a by-pass.

    I know it's a less than ideal road and all, but in fairness the last fatal accident in Slane according to that link was in 2001 - over 10 years ago. After that accident there was a lot of work done on the approach road to the bridge and since then the situation has improved a lot. I think the last decade is a bit more relevant when making an argument for building a by-pass close to a UNESCO site.


  • #16
    skregs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 746 ✭✭✭skregs


    micropig wrote: »
    22 lives have already been lost at Slane

    Was that the year the Rolling Stones were playing it?


  • #17
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    Mikros wrote: »
    Quoting a figure of 22 deaths going back to the 1980's is disingenuous in my opinion, there is hardly a stretch of national road in the country that wont give a similar figure over 30 years. This seems to be main argument made for a by-pass.

    I know it's a less than ideal road and all, but in fairness the last fatal accident in Slane according to that link was in 2001 - over 10 years ago. After that accident there was a lot of work done on the approach road to the bridge and since then the situation has improved a lot. I think the last decade is a bit more relevant when making an argument for building a by-pass close to a UNESCO site.

    ok if those people lives aren';t sufficient for you:rolleyes:, there has been many near fatal crashes here's one from 2009

    Meath Chroinicale report 2011 about accidents at slane


    Don't kid yourself this is about saving the heritage, I was on the Tara protest, The route they will approve will probably be nearer to Newgrange :rolleyes:


  • #18
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    The fact is that Slane does need a major road around it.
    Slane is a classic small village. 3/4 pubs, a single church on the left-hand side after going through the crossroad, there is the old mill/factor beside the old bridge (which really is not made for the huge trucks of today!), there is the ancient sites (all within short distance of each other, in some cases interconnected by tunnels.) a couple of small businesses including a credit union (right-hand side thats just been build in the last few years for the community as you drive down and in - across from a pub, the "Wishing Well" at one stage), a couple of small family restaurants and a single major hotel also near the church.
    The huge trucks hauling through it did/do no good service to Slane and the now old area that still somehow manages to remain.

    A motorway is needed to bypass the area but its should have been planned and positioned better, thats all.


  • #19
    Rented Mule
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,154 ✭✭✭Rented Mule


    micropig wrote: »
    ok if those people lives aren';t sufficient for you:rolleyes:, there has been many near fatal crashes here's one from 2009

    In fairness, I don't think that this is what Mikros is saying. You'll probably find if you compare any other road over a 30+ years time frame that you would probably find similar statistics.

    I'll go one step further to say that there is no guarantee that the number of fatal crashes will go down. If anything, at higher speed, you could possibly see an increase in deaths along the bypass.


  • #20
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Just be way of explanation about the old bridge.
    On either connecting side, its small hills (one of which Slane resides on).
    So driving down to the bridge (either direction), its very easy to by even accident, by kinetic energy, build up speed.
    Add to that the roads connecting to the bridge as they dip deep down to it, are VERY bendy and at places are absolute blind spots, leaving less than a half second to react (if that).
    ...Even worse at night!


  • #21
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    Biggins wrote: »
    Just be way of explanation about the old bridge.
    On either connecting side, its small hills (one of which Slane resides on).
    So driving down to the bridge (either direction), its very easy to by even accident, by kinetic energy, build up speed.
    Add to that the roads connecting to the bridge as they dip deep down to it, are VERY bendy and at places are absolute blind spots, leaving less than a half second to react (if that).
    ...Even worse at night!

    + by the time a truck gets to the bottom of the hill, they have no/very little air left in their brakes to stop, one wrong move.....


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  • #22
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    micropig wrote: »
    + by the time a truck gets to the bottom of the hill, they have no/very little air left in their brakes to stop, one wrong move.....

    Very very rare for a truck to have problems with not enough air. Much more common, and easy to do, is over heated brakes that then fade and don't work effectively, and that can happen simply because the driver hasn't slowed early enough to get the speed down before reaching the hill, particularly when coming from the north.

    It's a long steep hill that can catch someone out very easily if they don't know the area, and regrettably, there are a lot of trucks that come off the N1 at the Collon exit, come down through Slane and then take the Ratoath road off the N2, and go via Dunboyne and Maynooth to the N/M7, as that avoids the M1 toll and the M50 toll, which over time add up to a significant overhead. Banning them is unlikely to work, as for a ban to work, there has to be effective enforcement, and there's next to no enforcement now of things like no HGV's in the right hand lane of Motorways, let alone things like bans on a specific road. Can't be done with width restrictions, as there will still be trucks that have to get into the Slane area, as well as buses and coaches. IF there were no tolls on the motorways, then people might use them instead of using the roads that they were supposed to replace, but that won't happen in my lifetime, so we will continue to see fatal accidents at places like Slane, among others, because the road is being overused as a direct result of bad policy.

    It will be interesting to see what the NRA, and Meath CC come up with now,

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • #23
    starch4ser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 228 ✭✭starch4ser


    I recently saw one of these tree huggers wearing a tshirt with "liberate animals" printed on it. Honestly not sure what it means. Give them the right to vote? Allow them to take up paid employment?


  • #24
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    starch4ser wrote: »
    I recently saw one of these tree huggers wearing a tshirt with "liberate animals" printed on it. Honestly not sure what it means. Give them the right to vote? Allow them to take up paid employment?


    We already have, mostly in the public sector:p:D


  • #25
    Show Time
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Show Time


    Best way to fix the tree huggers is with a few water cannons.


  • #26
    irishgeo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,024 ✭✭✭✭irishgeo


    my point is that tourists visiting newgrange as he suggested is not going to help fix the economy.


  • #27
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    irishgeo wrote: »
    my point is that tourists visiting newgrange as he suggested is not going to help fix the economy.

    On its own, maybe not but besides the money it pulls in direct at the site itself, those visiting spend additional money in food, drink and places to stay - and every little bit helps - so yes, its does help to fix the economy.


  • #28
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    irishgeo wrote: »
    my point is that tourists visiting newgrange as he suggested is not going to help fix the economy.

    Raise the entry fee to €100,000?:D


    Newgrange is only part of what is in the area, knowth, dowth, mellifont, townely hall, whole boyne valley region, battle of the boyne to name but a few sites


  • #29
    forfuxsake
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 829 ✭✭✭forfuxsake


    micropig wrote: »
    Raise the entry fee to €100,000?:D

    and tell everybody that they have to buy tickets now because the price will go up next year and if they don't act quickly they may never get on the tickets to Newgrange ladder.


  • #30
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    forfuxsake wrote: »
    and tell everybody that they have to buy tickets now because the price will go up next year and if they don't act quickly they may never get on the tickets to Newgrange ladder.

    Sounds like a plan.

    To see the sunrise


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  • #31
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Take away the tolls on the nearby motorways and most of the traffic would vanish! POOF!!!

    Problem solved.


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