Huge hike in road tax as motor cash dries up

creedp · 05-03-2012 12:11PM

RoverJames wrote: »

Surprising was the wrong word
I should have put it in inverted commas, sadly, it is not surprising to see a motoring journalist come out with such moronic drivel.

As mentioned earlier .. he won't get to drive the latest BMW in Cannes [alog with all the other benefits] too often if he doesn't support a low CO2 tax policy.

antiskeptic · 05-03-2012 12:13PM

Jesh1 wrote: »

Linky.......

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/huge-hike-in-road-tax-as-motor-cash-dries-up-3039261.html

What did anyone expect? Tax take under the old system is X. Tax take under the new (incentive grounded) system is Y.

Take take from Y turns out to be significantly less than from X. How long could Y be sustained?

Not very long ..was my own guess back then.

Joe 90 · 05-03-2012 12:15PM

Bullseye1 wrote: »

This was inevitable. How someone can drive a brand new 2.0 BMW around for less than €300 a year and the older model is closer to €800. Thats a significant drop.

Living in the UK as I do I would regard the €300 as more than enough.

Eric Cartman · 05-03-2012 12:26PM

So the new tax is going to be size based too , I can see everyone in ireland rushing to buy tiny cars and make us look more 'european' , buying a 2nd hand range rover will never have been so cheap

smash · 05-03-2012 12:31PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

buying a 2nd hand range rover will never have been so cheap

What's the point if you can't afford to run it.

TomMc · 05-03-2012 12:33PM

On the present/newer CO2 System: If motor tax on 3L diesels increases greatly, is there any chance the EUR2000+ a year tax on some 2.0L petrols might come down a little? In recognition of all those who would like to see more late model rally car specials on our roads.:D

Or is anything bigger than 1.4L or 1.6L seen as a gas guzzler like the old days.

Gophur · 05-03-2012 12:35PM

Mr.David wrote: »

His post is not clap-trap, as you say yourself.

........

It is clap-trap, because he quotes non-existant sources to justify his claim.

I'm not going to (and no one else should either) do the research he was too lazy to do. Get some figures and quote the source, otherwise he might as well not post at all. I'm well aware of the car manufacturing supply chain.

After all, it is well knows than 82.35% of all statistics are made up on the spot !;)

pa990 · 05-03-2012 12:41PM

TomMc wrote: »

On the present/newer CO2 System: If motor tax on 3L diesels increases greatly, is there any chance the EUR2000+ a year tax on some 2.0L petrols might come down a little? In recognition of all those who would like to see more late model rally car specials on our roads.:D

Or is anything bigger than 1.4L or 1.6L seen as a gas guzzler like the old days.

Tax on a pre 08 2L car is €660
Nowhere near €2000+

Sesshoumaru · 05-03-2012 12:46PM

TomMc wrote: »

More the case of those who are prepared to spend the most (many others can afford it but choose not to) will be taxed the most. It is a discretionary spend therefore more a luxury tax than a progressive one.

I wouldn't argue with your logic. I would say though that even a luxury tax can be implemented in a "progressive" manner. My reading is that under the new system it may be the case that two cars can have the same emissions, but the larger (& more expensive?) car will be charged more in motor tax.

wonski · 05-03-2012 12:49PM

This is disgusting, really. Why not to put an extra 1000E in tax/year for electric cars now, or - maybe later. It is tough to buy a car now, as you can't really know what it is gonna cost you in the near future. Just another way to get money from us...

Chris_Heilong · 05-03-2012 12:50PM

this and the household charge are a disgrace, we should get to vote on all these issues IMO because it really is the last straw.

Deco99 · 05-03-2012 12:52PM

anyone have any figures on what its likely to be? 1.6lt diesel, now €160, what we thinking this is likely to be after this is brought in? is this next decembers budget or is it being brought in shortly?

Atomic Pineapple · 05-03-2012 12:55PM

Its about time the farce that is emissions based tax was sorted out, this is a good thing in my opinion.

Sesshoumaru · 05-03-2012 01:01PM

wonski wrote: »

This is disgusting, really. Why not to put an extra 1000E in tax/year for electric cars now, or - maybe later. It is tough to buy a car now, as you can't really know what it is gonna cost you in the near future. Just another way to get money from us...

As I said, electric cars can be powered by anything that produces electricity. Coal, Nuclear, Solar, Oil, Tidal, Wind, Gas etc. We need to reduce our dependency on oil for transport, which is the only energy source for Petrol & Diesel cars. The country as a whole will be much better off when we don't have to rely on an unreliable energy source such as Oil.

So I don't see what policy objective it would serve to increase motor tax on EV's to 1000 euro?

Chuck_Norris · 05-03-2012 01:11PM

draffodx wrote: »

Its about time the farce that is emissions based tax was sorted out, this is a good thing in my opinion.

I would agree wholeheartedly with this Draff.

Unfortunately, I get the sinking feeling that yet another opportunity to bring in a progressive motor taxation system is going to be lost in yet another desperate money grabbing move.

The ideal system would be a usage based one, but that ain't ever gonna happen.

Henry Ford III · 05-03-2012 01:17PM

They've just put up the VAT!!!

We motorists are getting a raw deal, and it'll only get worse. VRT, VAT, Excise Duty, motor tax, tolls. The list is almost endless and we pay billions per annum. The trouble is that money gets hoovered up into central funds, and much/most of it isn't spent on the roads.

Thankfully we simply have to be getting nearer and nearer to the tipping point.

Atomic Pineapple · 05-03-2012 01:18PM

Chuck_Norris wrote: »

I would agree wholeheartedly with this Draff.

Unfortunately, I get the sinking feeling that yet another opportunity to bring in a progressive motor taxation system is going to be lost in yet another desperate money grabbing move.

The ideal system would be a usage based one, but that ain't ever gonna happen.

I agree it'll probably be put together by donkeys but I'd have more faith in a few donkeys than I would in the greens!

Chuck_Norris · 05-03-2012 01:22PM

draffodx wrote: »

I agree it'll probably be put together by donkeys but I'd have more faith in a few donkeys than I would in the greens!

Well, I suppose donkeys do eat greens!

But the longer this drip, drip, drip of information goes on, the more frustrated I get. It's absolutely soul destroying.

The Scots used to say to people who said that us and them were very similar, "Aye. But at least they had the balls to fight for our country!!" What's happened to us?

GavMan · 05-03-2012 01:23PM

Chuck, Draffodx,

What sort of regime would you implement?

sentient_6 · 05-03-2012 01:26PM

shawnee wrote: »

The system has also lead to people specifically buying diesel and cars that they would not normally buy in order to reduce their road tax. So it has distorted the whole market.

Absolutely. Interesting stats on beepbeep.ie for the first two months of this year so far. 32,742 cars sold so far, 72.67% diesel to 24.02% petrol, 92% in tax band a or b.

First off with regard the obvious skew, id find it hard to believe that all them diesels are being bought for purpose, i.e. i wonder how many are stuck doing short runs by people who dont realise what they are getting themselves into in terms of potential future issues?

But anyway, as for the emissions, this is what they supposedly wanted & incentivised. One might almost think this part of some big dastardly plan.....:pac:

Chuck_Norris · 05-03-2012 01:26PM

GavMan wrote: »

Chuck, Draffodx,

What sort of regime would you implement?

As I said earlier Gav, I would implement a usage based system. As in, load the tax onto the cost of fuel.

But not at the existing excise levels, they would have to be amended also. As in, they couldn't just put another load of tax on fuel, without it having another negative impact on consumption.

But that ain't ever gonna happen.

zenno · 05-03-2012 01:33PM

Already paying €333 a year for tax and my emissions low idle are Co 0.02 vol% -- high idle lambda 1.01 Co 0.02 vol%

I need a break ffs.

TomMc · 05-03-2012 01:36PM

pa990 wrote: »

Tax on a pre 08 2L car is €660
Nowhere near €2000+

Never said it was hence "Late Model".

Post '08 2.0L petrols range from EUR677 to EUR1129 to in some cases even as much as EUR2258.:eek: Putting a nail in the coffin of many performance cars in Ireland.

kleefarr · 05-03-2012 01:42PM

chrismon wrote: »

I dont think its fair to change this tax system.
They encouraged people to scrap cars that were in perfect working order, to buy these new lower emisions/lower tax cars.
THOUSANDS of people did this and now the people are being penalised :mad:

The general public are really being taken for a ride. It's outrageous and ridiculous.
How can it go on? People, including my self, are starting to struggle. I can no longer keep on top of my finances and am constantly juggling to make sure everything gets paid. I never over indulged, but If this motor tax affects me I'll be in trouble.
It's starting to get me and lots of others down.

conzy · 05-03-2012 01:43PM

Hopefully they will leave the pre 08 rates alone.. Or maybe bring them down to be more inline with the CO2 rates eh? eh? probably not

creedp · 05-03-2012 01:45PM

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Did you just pick that out of a random ideas generator box? There arent alot of electric cars in Ireland so its just going to punish a very small number of people.

Yes but if future proofing you policy is NB you would now plan for a world with lots of electric cars ... and dream of all that lolly! By the way the argument that because there is only a few what difference would it make is also applied to the top earners in this country when it comes to getting rid of tax breaks or increasing income tax on earners over €100k, €200k, €500k ... Doesn't mean to say it shouldn't happen if it is fair to do so

It car tax is a 'luxury tax' rather that a saving the environment tax why shouldn't it apply to EV's? An EV is still a car .. it still uses the roads .. I can see why you might give a VRT reduction to encourage people to swop from ICE's if they are as good [for the env] as everyone says they are but after that they should be taxed like every other car when used on the road.

Seweryn · 05-03-2012 01:46PM

TomMc wrote: »

Never said it was hence "Late Model".

Post '08 2.0L petrols range from EUR677 to EUR1129 to in some cases even as much as EUR2258.:eek: Putting a nail in the coffin of many performance cars in Ireland.

That is one of the problems with the taxation rates. The bands are too wide and the system should be designed more simply, i.e there should be 3-4 tax rates with small enough steps in between them. The curent system is mad in its basis, as we have some cars that are 14 times more expensive to tax than others.

05-03-2012 01:51PM

zenno wrote: »

Already paying €333 a year for tax and my emissions low idle are Co 0.02 vol% -- high idle lambda 1.01 Co 0.02 vol%

I need a break ffs.

€333/annum to tax what?

Seweryn · 05-03-2012 01:55PM

RoverJames wrote: »

€333/annum to tax what?

A 1.25 Fiesta or a Toyota Starlet, I guess

.

Voodoomelon · 05-03-2012 01:58PM

If the pre C02 rates go up again, i'll, i'll! ... I give up. Cry myself to sleep every night.

Huge hike in road tax as motor cash dries up

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