I really want Ireland to be 'fixed'.We live in a great country,its not right.

120_Minutes · 04-03-2012 02:59PM

mikemac1 wrote: »

120_Minutes wrote: »

then we got greedy, self important and self absorbed.

OMARS_COMING_ wrote: »

We really messed up.

Sorry lads

I didn't realize I'd sold out my country and brought it to ruin

What's this "we"

A lot of the populace once they got a few quid also got an inflated sense of entitlement. The "me" decade happened everywhere else in the 80s, for us it was the mid 90s onward.

Celly Smunt · 04-03-2012 03:03PM

Can't we all just buy a union flag and get along?

TheZohanS · 04-03-2012 03:23PM

OMARS_COMING_ wrote: »

We really messed up.

Well we didn't mess up but we were certainly complacent. Now if anyone says that they didn't buy property yadda yadda and that you've had nothing to do with the mess we're in then I disagree. The property bubble had a knock on effect for everyone, it generated cash in the economy and every single person benefited as a result. Taxes were historically low, employment was high and even those on unemployment benefit had higher payments.

We may not have partied as much as property developers or the like but we certainly benefited in some way or another.

Doc Ruby · 04-03-2012 03:57PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The country has a debt bill of over $500,000 per person, the only saviour is the vast oil and gas fields off our shores but these are being given away for a paltry 12.5% corporation tax. Rarely does a country get a 2nd chance, this is ours.

There's just nothing correct in that comment. I mean factually right, not correct in the opinion sense. Ireland's public debt is not two trillion dollars and the royalties which are not the same as corporation tax are low because there aren't huge oil fields off our coast.

lividduck wrote: »

When did we ever have soverignty? we used Sterling as our currency until we joined the EMS, now we depend on others to lend us cheap money.

Sovereignty isn't a matter of loans and debts. If we wanted to tell everyone to feck off we could, and nobody could stop us, that is sovereignty. The side effects might be unpleasant mind you, like trade sanctions, but there it is.

pmcmahon wrote: »

Can't we all just buy a union flag and get along?

I've enough bogroll thanks.

KeithAFC · 04-03-2012 04:01PM

It does seem to be a right mess in the Irish Republic. Could be decades before you recover. Elections will not make any difference because the damage has been done it seems. Just a question of seeing out the storm as they say.

dxhound2005 · 04-03-2012 04:10PM

OMARS_COMING_ wrote: »

Ireland is a broken place.I can't wait until we are back on out feet and making progress.

We really messed up.How did it ever get so bad.

It's not so bad, I just looked out the window and everything seems OK. Things were a lot worse in this country in the past.

Liam Byrne · 04-03-2012 04:11PM

squod wrote: »

OMARS_COMING_ wrote: »

Ireland is a broken place.I can't wait until we are back on out feet and making progress.

We really messed up.How did it ever get so bad.

We? WTF? I didn't do jack mate. Don't include me in this.

Exactly! And at least we're allowed to point this out in AH (unlike elsewhere)

Eric Cartman · 04-03-2012 05:34PM

ItsAWindUp wrote: »

Eh, what socialism was that then?

the wasted government money and bloat of the whole civil service in trying to have the government control everything and keeping semi-state bodies alive.

Bailing out the banks and the scroungers.

Killer Wench · 04-03-2012 05:49PM

I think that should be "Omar's Coming Y'all".

Laisurg · 04-03-2012 05:52PM

We clearly don't live in a great country! I'd call it an ok country at best tbh.... It got this bad by voting in shítty governments that get worse each time and having a general ''I don't like this, but I will never ever try do anything about it'' attitude.

btard · 04-03-2012 05:53PM

OMARS_COMING_ wrote: »

Ireland is a broken place.I can't wait until we are back on out feet and making progress.

We really messed up.How did it ever get so bad.

We were never on our feet to start with. We had a few years of boom based on free credit is all. We are back to our normal state of high taxes, unemployment and emigration. Don't waste your time waiting for light at the end of the tunnel. The place was always a ****hole and always will be.

inb4 the usual 'if you don't like it leave morons'

dotsman · 04-03-2012 06:02PM

ItsAWindUp wrote: »

Eh, what socialism was that then?

Where do we start...

How about the ridiculously high minimum wage. Many employers warned that they would not be able to afford to stay in business or employ as many people, the economists warned that it would lead to huge inflation, resulting in Ireland becoming a very expensive country. The socialists laughed and, not only introduced minimum wage into Ireland, but subsequently increased it by 60% over just a few years.
How about the public sector. Far too much to go into here, but in a nutshell - Trade unions squeezing as much money out of everybody's pockets to fund their members with no attempt to actually provide a service deserving of the money that's pumped into it.
The fact that in 2006, a young unskilled worker with little motivation or work ethic, providing no economic output (in fact, very much driving the bubble) was being paid a lot more than a young highly skilled, hard-working, ambitious worker.
Socialists even decided that we should greatly increase social welfare payments throughout the boom, despite there being no real need for anybody to be on the likes of Jobseekers etc.

Ultimately, the socialist economic policies of the FF dominated government resulted in the massive rise in inflation fuelling the boom, the hugely overpriced, yet very inefficient public sector, the massive lack of skilled people (ie the unemployable) now queuing at the dole offices, and a social welfare bill we cannot afford.

GombeanMan · 04-03-2012 06:09PM

Not to mention, the EU is a left wing creation. They can't even manage money properly. It's a joke.

lividduck · 04-03-2012 06:10PM

dotsman wrote: »

Where do we start...
How about the ridiculously high minimum wage. Many employers warned that they would not be able to afford to stay in business or employ as many people, the economists warned that it would lead to huge inflation, resulting in Ireland becoming a very expensive country. The socialists laughed and, not only introduced minimum wage into Ireland, but subsequently increased it by 60% over just a few years.

How about the public sector. Far too much to go into here, but in a nutshell - Trade unions squeezing as much money out of everybody's pockets to fund their members with no attempt to actually provide a service deserving of the money that's pumped into it.

The fact that in 2006, a young unskilled worker with little motivation or work ethic, providing no economic output (in fact, very much driving the bubble) was being paid a lot more than a young highly skilled, hard-working, ambitious worker.

Socialists even decided that we should greatly increase social welfare payments throughout the boom, despite there being no real need for anybody to be on the likes of Jobseekers etc.

Ultimately, the socialist economic policies of the FF dominated government resulted in the massive rise in inflation fuelling the boom, the hugely overpriced, yet very inefficient public sector, the massive lack of skilled people (ie the unemployable) now queuing at the dole offices, and a social welfare bill we cannot afford.

€8.65 an hour could hardly be described as ridiculously high in a country where it costs €50 to see a doctor, a half decent place to live costs €600+ to rent, where there is no pre-school provision,where there is practically no public transport outside of large urban areas. and where everything has a charge or levy on it .
If socialism causes economic crisis why is Sweden not broke?
No one in their right mind could blame the economic crisis on the minimum wage.

Chuck Stone · 04-03-2012 06:14PM

This is why we can't have nice things.

GombeanMan · 04-03-2012 06:15PM

lividduck wrote: »

€8.65 an hour could hardly be described as ridiculously high in a country where it costs €50 to see a doctor, a half decent place to live costs €600+ to rent, where there is no pre-school provision,where there is practically no public transport outside of large urban areas. and where everything has a charge or levy on it .
If socialism causes economic crisis why is Sweden not broke?
No one in their right mind could blame the economic crisis on the minimum wage.

The Doctor has also gone through years of medical school and college, not to mention 100,000 euro and upwards in loans for that schooling. The minimum wage artifically cuts out a large sector of people who could work for very little, build some track record, then earn more increases. This creates a situation whereby you can command better wages, because if not, the guy down the street will. Minimum wage schemes hurt profits. The minimum wage does nothing to encourage hard work. Rent is also artificially high as a result of Government interference in the market. Socialism again at work. If they just removed 80% of the regulations out there, we would probably be able to cut prices across the board for everyone.

dotsman · 04-03-2012 06:21PM

lividduck wrote: »

€8.65 an hour could hardly be described as ridiculously high in a country where it costs €50 to see a doctor, a half decent place to live costs €600+ to rent, where there is no pre-school provision,where there is practically no public transport outside of large urban areas. and where everything has a charge or levy on it .
If socialism causes economic crisis why is Sweden not broke?
No one in their right mind could blame the economic crisis on the minimum wage.

And why do you think it costs €50 to see a doctor? Why do you think it costs €600 for rent? Why do you think Ireland is so expensive (when, just 20 years ago it was very cheap)

Minimum wage is a wolf in sheep's clothing. People on it (or near it) think, "great, another increase, I'm going to have more money (for doing nothing)!", whereas the reality is that some of them will simply lose their jobs because of it, while the rest, although receiving the increase, will quickly notice a matching increase in the cost of living, thus it has an overall negative impact on the economy.

Nodin · 04-03-2012 06:35PM

dotsman wrote: »

And why do you think it costs €50 to see a doctor? Why do you think it costs €600 for rent? Why do you think Ireland is so expensive (when, just 20 years ago it was very cheap)

Minimum wage is a wolf in sheep's clothing. People on it (or near it) think, "great, another increase, I'm going to have more money (for doing nothing)!",............

...or 'Great, I'm finally getting half-decent pay for what I'm doing, as oppossed to being shafted'

themandan6611 · 04-03-2012 06:38PM

shame Jim died, i bet he'd fix it

dotsman · 04-03-2012 06:49PM

Nodin wrote: »

...or 'Great, I'm finally getting half-decent pay for what I'm doing, as oppossed to being shafted'

Interesting terminology. If you fell you are being shafted, why not upskill and earn a higher wage? It's a free country - nobody is forcing you to be unskilled.

Nodin · 04-03-2012 06:54PM

dotsman wrote: »

Interesting terminology. If you fell you are being shafted, why not upskill and earn a higher wage? It's a free country - nobody is forcing you to be unskilled.

...the usual idealistic guff, which takes no account of general economic conditions, societal conditioning etc. We had a system where there was no minimum wage for many years, and it resulted in exploitation and abuse.

lividduck · 04-03-2012 07:12PM

GombeanMan wrote: »

The Doctor has also gone through years of medical school and college, not to mention 100,000 euro and upwards in loans for that schooling. The minimum wage artifically cuts out a large sector of people who could work for very little, build some track record, then earn more increases. This creates a situation whereby you can command better wages, because if not, the guy down the street will. Minimum wage schemes hurt profits. The minimum wage does nothing to encourage hard work. Rent is also artificially high as a result of Government interference in the market. Socialism again at work. If they just removed 80% of the regulations out there, we would probably be able to cut prices across the board for everyone.

No €100,000 No loans at all, the guy on the minimum wage pays for the rich doctors FREE 3rd level education!
You are certainly living up to the name you chose.
:mad:

lividduck · 04-03-2012 07:15PM

dotsman wrote: »

And why do you think it costs €50 to see a doctor? Why do you think it costs €600 for rent? Why do you think Ireland is so expensive (when, just 20 years ago it was very cheap)

Minimum wage is a wolf in sheep's clothing. People on it (or near it) think, "great, another increase, I'm going to have more money (for doing nothing)!", whereas the reality is that some of them will simply lose their jobs because of it, while the rest, although receiving the increase, will quickly notice a matching increase in the cost of living, thus it has an overall negative impact on the economy.

WTF, what do you mean "doing nothing"?

lividduck · 04-03-2012 07:16PM

Since Im not interested in feeding the T****S im getting out now. Advise others to do the same.

Eric Cartman · 04-03-2012 07:17PM

lividduck wrote: »

WTF, what do you mean "doing nothing"?

minimum wage over values some labour and takes from higher wages at higher positions due to having to pay out 8.65 an hour for somebody who might only generate 4 euro an hour of value to the employer

mikemac1 · 04-03-2012 07:19PM

GombeanMan wrote: »

The Doctor has also gone through years of medical school and college, not to mention 100,000 euro and upwards in loans for that schooling.

This is an Irish site, not American

If you get the points and get on the course then the State pays the fees

mikemac1 · 04-03-2012 07:23PM

dotsman wrote: »

[*]The fact that in 2006, a young unskilled worker with little motivation or work ethic, providing no economic output (in fact, very much driving the bubble) was being paid a lot more than a young highly skilled, hard-working, ambitious worker.

Market rates set your wage

And you don't last long labouring on a site sweating and freezing and drenched outside hauling around bricks and digging trenches if you don't have a work ethic. It was well paid and anyone could have worked it, you had your summers free didn't you.

Just because you have a piece of paper does not make you more hard working or mean others lack ambition

dotsman · 04-03-2012 07:27PM

Nodin wrote: »

...the usual idealistic guff, which takes no account of general economic conditions, societal conditioning etc. We had a system where there was no minimum wage for many years, and it resulted in exploitation and abuse.

...the usual socialist guff. Any chance of examples (I mean; an example of someone who has been prevented from getting an education? From doing a FAS course? From working hard and impressing their boss to be promoted to a better position, from learning an economically useful skill in their own time etc)?

lividduck wrote: »

WTF, what do you mean "doing nothing"?

"Doing nothing to economically deserve a massive raise". If an employee's labour contributes €7 per hour to their employer, then the employer can pay them anything up to €7 per hour and still make a profit. If a socialist comes along and says that that person must now be paid €8 an hour for the exact same labour, then either the employer lets the employee go (and the taxpayer must fund the now unemployed labourer) or jack up prices to enable that employee's labour contribute in excess of €8 (thus causing massive inflation).

GombeanMan · 04-03-2012 07:37PM

lividduck wrote: »

No €100,000 No loans at all, the guy on the minimum wage pays for the rich doctors FREE 3rd level education!
You are certainly living up to the name you chose.
:mad:

I apologise for being an ass:( You are right. RCSI is very expensive here, but the others are state funded. Which is correct.

dxhound2005 · 04-03-2012 07:37PM

dotsman wrote: »

...the usual socialist guff. Any chance of examples (I mean; an example of someone who has been prevented from getting an education? From doing a FAS course? From working hard and impressing their boss to be promoted to a better position, from learning an economically useful skill in their own time etc)?

"Doing nothing to economically deserve a massive raise". If an employee's labour contributes €7 per hour to their employer, then the employer can pay them anything up to €7 per hour and still make a profit. If a socialist comes along and says that that person must now be paid €8 an hour for the exact same labour, then either the employer lets the employee go (and the taxpayer must fund the now unemployed labourer) or jack up prices to enable that employee's labour contribute in excess of €8 (thus causing massive inflation).

Don't worry about inflation.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/ireland/inflation-average-imf-data.html

I really want Ireland to be 'fixed'.We live in a great country,its not right.

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