30,000 still waiting for medical card

theg81der · 03-03-2012 01:57AM

zenno wrote: »

Here I am with a medical card and i never use it or needed to use it and i know i will never use it, but i'd give this medical card to a person that would need it now if i could. if it was possible to transfer it to a genuine person.

why does a reasonably young arsehole like me on the dole deserve to have it when there are people out there that really need it more than me ?. the minister for health should bring in a donation method even though it would be small for people that want to transfer and relinquish their medical card to someone that would benefit more from the use of this card now.

many people would not give up their medical card but i believe a few would for the people that need it most . call me crazy but there are people out there now that are desperate for proper medical assistance but cannot afford it.

And your special because you know the day and the hour you`ll get sick? What would you do if it was gone and you suddenly got a chronic illness? I got mine because I was sick, I couldn`t afford to go to the doctor what was I suppose to do? Why did you apply for it if you didn`t want it, mine was hard got even in the good days you obviously went through the process of applying? And what happens genius if you transfer it and then get sick?

micropig · 03-03-2012 01:59AM

The HSE implemented its decision to centralise the processing of all new applications and renewals of medical cards at the primary care reimbursement service, PCRS, in Finglas, Dublin, on 1 July 2011. Following the centralisation of the service, the PCRS reported that it was receiving approximately 20,000 applications per week. The PCRS estimates that in excess of 80% of complete applications are processed within 15 working days. Delays can occur where applications are submitted without the correct supporting documentation necessary to complete the processing of the application.

All applications are given a unique application number by the PCRS, which is immediately notified to applicants. Applicants are advised of the importance of quoting this unique application number on all correspondence with the PCRS because it is used to track all correspondence as well as the current status of the application. In cases where an application is not complete, the PCRS writes to the applicant requesting the missing documentation.

In cases where a decision is made not to grant a medical card, the applicant is informed of the decision, notified of his or her right to appeal this decision and contact details for the appeals office are provided. Where appellants submit an appeal within 21 days of a decision, they retain their medical card or GP visit card until the appeal is decided. The appeals officer notifies the appellant of the final decision in the case.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2011/12/13/00021.asp

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Kathleen Lynch): 13 Dec 2011

zenno · 03-03-2012 02:04AM

theg81der wrote: »

And your special because you know the day and the hour you`ll get sick? What would you do if it was gone and you suddenly got a chronic illness? I got mine because I was sick, I couldn`t afford to go to the doctor what was I suppose to do? Why did you apply for it if you didn`t want it, mine was hard got even in the good days you obviously went through the process of applying? And what happens genius if you transfer it and then get sick?

come on out of that. I am not special, I can handle my own problems but my whole point is, I would give this card to a person that needed it more than me. and ok if something did happen me I would sort it out myself like i always did without the luxury of the medical card. at the end of the day i don't need it and i will never need it so in my opinion i would rather give it to someone that needs it now. look i'm serious and i don't come on boards.ie to make stuff up. this is my opinion on it and that's the way i feel...I'd rather someone right now in need of it . have it.

ps...I applied for it because i could.

It just bugs me that the people that really need medical and cannot afford it are stressed out and some people that i know, and if there was a way of transferring ownership of the card then that would be a great idea imo.

woodoo · 03-03-2012 02:16AM

It would be good if someone who works there or has friends or family working there could come on here and explain. Tell us what exactly is going on in the central office.

micropig · 03-03-2012 02:27AM

woodoo wrote: »

It would be good if someone who works there or has friends or family working there could come on here and explain. Tell us what exactly is going on in the central office.

My guess is the union is tangled up in the middle of what ever it is;)

ebixa82 · 03-03-2012 03:02AM

zenno wrote: »

Here I am with a medical card and i never use it or needed to use it and i know i will never use it, but i'd give this medical card to a person that would need it now if i could. if it was possible to transfer it to a genuine person.

why does a reasonably young arsehole like me on the dole deserve to have it when there are people out there that really need it more than me ?. the minister for health should bring in a donation method even though it would be small for people that want to transfer and relinquish their medical card to someone that would benefit more from the use of this card now.

many people would not give up their medical card but i believe a few would for the people that need it most . call me crazy but there are people out there now that are desperate for proper medical assistance but cannot afford it.

Ok brains, so you give up your medical card, then the next day you develop a respiratory tract infection which requires a GP visit (50e) plus antibiotics (10-50e). But it doesn't shift it so you go to your GP again (another 50e) and he prescribes a different antibiotic (40e). Still no results.

So you are sent to the hospital for a chest x-ray (100e). They discover you have a tumour on your left lung. But now you have no medical card or health insurance. What next?

micropig · 03-03-2012 03:09AM

ebixa82 wrote: »

Ok brains, so you give up your medical card, then the next day you develop a respiratory tract infection which requires a GP visit (50e) plus antibiotics (10-50e). But it doesn't shift it so you go to your GP again (another 50e) and he prescribes a different antibiotic (40e). Still no results.

So you are sent to the hospital for a chest x-ray (100e). They discover you have a tumour on your left lung. But now you have no medical card or health insurance. What next?

That's not the issue here though.Criteria is set down and regardless whether the application/appeal is refused or granted, it still needs to be processed.

In 2009, 72,000 claims were processed.This figure includes 42,000 reviews. Why so many reviews? I know a certain number of people circumstances will change, but over half the applicants?Seems High. Are the first round of staff carrying out the assessment properly, or is it making jobs for the lads?

GrafenPills · 03-03-2012 03:45AM

MickySticks wrote: »

Let them pay for own bloody medical expenses, I work and pay tax but I don't get to go to the doctors for free.
Sicken your hole!

MickySticks wrote: »

Aww did Jacinta get a boil on her arse and have to pay to see the doctor?
I don't begrudge anyone in desperate need of a MC but they are handed out to easily in this country.

I know what you are saying. On one hand a person can work, pay their taxes and be expected the fork the bill where as people on the social wouldnt have to dig into their pockets a single bit... That don't seem fair. Of course the eldery and very sick excluded here.

But, on the flip side. Life isnt fair. Take advantage of what you are entitled to. If the government says people on the social can get medical cards. You cant blame the 30,000 in wait applying for one.

What side of the fence stuff it would appear to be.

ArmaniJeanss · 03-03-2012 04:12AM

micropig wrote: »

In 2009, 72,000 claims were processed.This figure includes 42,000 reviews. Why so many reviews? I know a certain number of people circumstances will change, but over half the applicants?Seems High.

That would imply that every medical card gets reviewed roughly every 18 months.
Seems fair, eminently sensible even?

ebixa82 · 03-03-2012 08:59AM

Does anybody know under what agreement African and Middle Eastern people (Afghanistani, Pakistani etc) are entitled to medical cards?

Are they all claiming refugee/asylum seeker status and allowed medical cards while their application is being processed?

According to the article below Ireland has one of, if not the lowest levels of asylum acceptance in the EU.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/only-25-granted-asylum-last-year-lowest-rate-in-eu-2599995.html

(No racist comments please)

ebixa82 · 03-03-2012 09:01AM

micropig wrote: »

That's not the issue here though.Criteria is set down and regardless whether the application/appeal is refused or granted, it still needs to be processed.

In 2009, 72,000 claims were processed.This figure includes 42,000 reviews. Why so many reviews? I know a certain number of people circumstances will change, but over half the applicants?Seems High. Are the first round of staff carrying out the assessment properly, or is it making jobs for the lads?

Reviews are needed to ensure people who should no longer be on the medical card (due to having found work, emigrating etc.) are no longer on it.

mattjack · 03-03-2012 09:45AM

woodoo wrote: »

It would be good if someone who works there or has friends or family working there could come on here and explain. Tell us what exactly is going on in the central office.

Please don't attack me.In the past I have worked in the building, as a contractor, where all medical card applications are now processed.I've worked with the HSE, for over eight years.I know some of the staff very well, including the employees who process the medical card applications.

As you can appreciate,every application arrives by post,the building is NOT a public office,(there are people who turn up and try and hand deliver an application hoping it will be processed there and then....try figure out that logic).
I have no contact or reason to look at an application and never do...members of the staff will tell us about the incredible amounts applications that arrive with no PPS number,return address,attempts to claim medical cards when applicants are not entitled to them,even attempts from abroad to claim cards.
This doesnt take into account the amount of phone calls that arrive every day looking for all sorts of info. about the medical cards.
Every single one of these applications ,as far as the staff are able to, will be processed .
I,m not defending the HSE or the medical card system, but I've seen staff with their heads in their hands with sheer frustration at some of applications that arrive.

MJ

Pingi · 03-03-2012 12:41PM

I worked for the phoneline for the medical card for a few weeks in the summer until I was able to get another job that related to my qualifications.

The people on the phones do not see the medical card applications ever, they just handle the calls and are insanely busy doing so (worst job I've ever had, < €9 PH too) sometimes there would be crazy waiting times for people to get through I saw anywhere from 0-40 minutes and we never had more than 30 seconds between calls. Always heard that the processing team where completely rushed off there feet worse than us and to try and cut down the amount of query's we would send up. It's not a case of the staff doing nothing More staff were clearly needed/under funded.

Applications at the time where taking from 3-8 weeks when sent full completed, But I would have to think less than half came in fully completed.

I completely agree that the forms should outline clearer and what evidence is required spelled out as the applications. As the main thing that delays applications is them being incomplete. You literally have to prove everything you put on the application and anything that can be traced as income to your PPSN which is only right.

The things people used to try and pass off where laughable. "I give me ma €70 a week rent" "the woman down the road minds my kids for €200 a week",

One woman told me she sent proof that she had an au paire which would bring her below the guidelines, I questioned this with the processors as I wouldn't of thought having an Au paire would count as childcare deductible from what you can earn and got a message back from them saying that she sent a letter in her own hand writing saying "I pay an au paire €300 a week signed X" :rolleyes:

All of the above might have been true, but whats to stop people saying they're paying out any amount of unrecorded cash of any amount. Also people wanting what they pay in private school fees, big car loans and credit card/phone bills taken into consideration PFFFT

People moving houses and not informing the HSE, Renewal applications going to old address and card expires, (they could have rang and requested a new form when they saw it was coming to an end) or People filling out the online application that clearly states you need to print and post all evidence once complete never doing so, then ringing up F'ing the call centre workers out of it cause they can't see the Dr for free

I've seen people eg those in road traffic accidents be given cards the next day for faxing through Drs reports and proof of there incomes. From what I saw they really do try and help as best they can with what they have.

micropig · 03-03-2012 12:50PM

ebixa82 wrote: »

Reviews are needed to ensure people who should no longer be on the medical card (due to having found work, emigrating etc.) are no longer on it.

Well it would take a team of 60 workers each processing 5.6 applications a day to hit the target of 72,000.

150 staff in the medical card processing, Can any one tell us, in a department set up to process applications,how many are actually doing this task? What are the others doing.

They claim that 20,000 applications are arriving in a week, why so few actually being processed.

mattjack wrote: »

Please don't attack me.In the past I have worked in the building, as a contractor, where all medical card applications are now processed.I've worked with the HSE, for over eight years.I know some of the staff very well, including the employees who process the medical card applications.

As you can appreciate,every application arrives by post,the building is NOT a public office,(there are people who turn up and try and hand deliver an application hoping it will be processed there and then....try figure out that logic).
I have no contact or reason to look at an application and never do...members of the staff will tell us about the incredible amounts applications that arrive with no PPS number,return address,attempts to claim medical cards when applicants are not entitled to them,even attempts from abroad to claim cards.
This doesnt take into account the amount of phone calls that arrive every day looking for all sorts of info. about the medical cards.
Every single one of these applications ,as far as the staff are able to, will be processed .
I,m not defending the HSE or the medical card system, but I've seen staff with their heads in their hands with sheer frustration at some of applications that arrive.

MJ

I understand about missing informations, but the process in the office is the same. Notify applicant of information missing, file the file for future reference. I doubt (but I could be wrong) that they sit looking at the application until the missing information is replied, They get on with the next one.

As for people emigrating etc. Noted on system, file is filed.

People applying that are not entitled-refuse, notify patient, record on system, file.

The only delay I can see would be waiting for returned information, the process in the office would remain the same.

And there is a lot of people in the department and I can't figure out what they all do..

mattjack · 03-03-2012 01:09PM

micropig wrote: »

Well it would take a team of 60 workers each processing 5.6 applications a day to hit the target of 72,000.

150 staff in the medical card processing, Can any one tell us, in a department set up to process applications,how many are actually doing this task? What are the others doing.

They claim that 20,000 applications are arriving in a week, why so few actually being processed.

I understand about missing informations, but the process in the office is the same. Notify applicant of information missing, file the file for future reference. I doubt (but I could be wrong) that they sit looking at the application until the missing information is replied, They get on with the next one.

As for people emigrating etc. Noted on system, file is filed.

People applying that are not entitled-refuse, notify patient, record on system, file.

The only delay I can see would be waiting for returned information, the process in the office would remain the same.

And there is a lot of people in the department and I can't figure out what they all do..

Fair points.... Again I worked there over a couple of years as a contractor,so my view would be based on what I see,the volume of post into that building regarding medical cards and the waiting time for phone calls always suggested to me that the staff were run off their feet.
I actually worked in the postal room and in reception as the phone calls arrive.

micropig · 03-03-2012 01:12PM

The PCRS has recently put in place a national on-line facility which allows local
health offices to track the current status of applications and reviews being
dealt with by the PCRS......

In addition to the above the PCRS has now launched a facility -
www.medicalcard.ie - where a person who has applied through the national
central office can view the status of their medical/GP visit card application or review online, using a unique reference number that is provided on the
acknowledgement sent to them. If a mobile telephone number is supplied with the application/review, an acknowledgement of receipt and the application status/progress of the case will automatically be delivered to the applicant by text message as their case proceeds through the assessment process.

The PCRS is also finalising the development of a facility which will allow people to apply on-line if they wish.

http://www.mater.ie/patients/leaflets/Letter%20re%20centralisation%20of%20medical%20card%20apps%20and%20reviews%20190110.pdf
So it's all on line:eek:

The HSE has also put in place a dedicated telephone number for Oireachtas Members enquiring about medical/GP visit card applications/reviews being
dealt with by the PCRS

:rolleyes:

As of the 8 October 2010 the central office has received 211,801 applications/reviews,
issued 171,237 medical cards on foot of these applications and a further 7,185 cards are
due to be issued in the coming days. 6,008 applications were not successful.
All complete applications are processed in 15 working days. The length of time it takes
to process an incomplete application depends on how quickly the client provides any
required missing information or documentary evidence to the office to allow the
appropriate process to be completed. In respect of every incomplete application we write
to the applicant and we request any missing information. We await information in respect
of 12,994 applications.

http://hse.ie/eng/about/PersonalPQ/PQ/2009_PQ_Responses/October_2009/Oct_13/Tom_Hayes_PQ_35378-09_.pdf

@MattJack I would love to spend a day watching what goes on in these places and thanks for sharing it, I'm now thinking they're far too many managers in these places and not enough people doing the task the office was established to do.

zenno · 03-03-2012 01:17PM

ebixa82 wrote: »

Ok brains, so you give up your medical card, then the next day you develop a respiratory tract infection which requires a GP visit (50e) plus antibiotics (10-50e). But it doesn't shift it so you go to your GP again (another 50e) and he prescribes a different antibiotic (40e). Still no results.

So you are sent to the hospital for a chest x-ray (100e). They discover you have a tumour on your left lung. But now you have no medical card or health insurance. What next?

some people just don't get it... my comment was layed out as said, i.e.. someone out there right now is in more need for it than me. I don't dwell on the future or if something happens as i am fine right now but if someone could use my card right now then i believe that would be helpful. that's all i was saying. the bloody thing is lieing here for a year and not once did i need to use it so i'd rather give it to someone that does need it. simple really.

people keep thinking about themselves all the time, me me me, stop to think that someone needs sh1t now.

mattjack · 03-03-2012 01:21PM

micropig wrote: »

http://www.mater.ie/patients/leaflets/Letter%20re%20centralisation%20of%20medical%20card%20apps%20and%20reviews%20190110.pdf
So it's all on line:eek:

:rolleyes:

http://hse.ie/eng/about/PersonalPQ/PQ/2009_PQ_Responses/October_2009/Oct_13/Tom_Hayes_PQ_35378-09_.pdf

@MattJack I would love to spend a day watching what goes on in these places and thanks for sharing it, I'm now thinking they're far too many managers in these places and not enough people doing the task the office was established to do.

@Micropig Sir.... from my experience , you just hit the nail on the head.

micropig · 03-03-2012 01:25PM

mattjack wrote: »

@Micropig Sir.... from my experience , you just hit the nail on the head.

I had suspected just as much;)

A round of sackings is in order, get in more people who of are of the right grade off the live register, who actually want to work.

Put the sacked out cutting the grass in Croke Park:p:D

ebixa82 · 03-03-2012 01:48PM

zenno wrote: »

some people just don't get it... my comment was layed out as said, i.e.. someone out there right now is in more need for it than me. I don't dwell on the future or if something happens as i am fine right now but if someone could use my card right now then i believe that would be helpful. that's all i was saying. the bloody thing is lieing here for a year and not once did i need to use it so i'd rather give it to someone that does need it. simple really.

people keep thinking about themselves all the time, me me me, stop to think that someone needs sh1t now.

You seem to think that there is a finite amount of medical cards available.

There is not. If you need a card, you will be granted one. It's called means testing.

You are not depriving anyone of a card by not using yours.

The issue is the delay in processing, not that there is not enough available.

zenno · 03-03-2012 02:03PM

ebixa82 wrote: »

You seem to think that there is a finite amount of medical cards available.

There is not. If you need a card, you will be granted one. It's called means testing.

You are not depriving anyone of a card by not using yours.

The issue is the delay in processing, not that there is not enough available.

you still miss my point after all this... it is not the point of people eligible for medical cards it is a point that citizens/taxpayers of this country older folk as well that cannot afford to pay for their medical expenses are the ones i am talking about. I am talking about people that need medical but cannot afford it. I would give it to a person of this predicament. the dole heads get it regardless and the majority of them are in good health but the people that need this sh1t are frightened to call a bloody ambulance out because it will be a 100 euro charge. look if I could give this card to a person that needed it i would. you're statement is nullified.

micropig · 03-03-2012 02:07PM

Also applies to some workers in the medical card office (mostly managers and upper grades):p

ebixa82 · 03-03-2012 02:17PM

zenno wrote: »

you still miss my point after all this... it is not the point of people eligible for medical cards it is a point that citizens/taxpayers of this country older folk as well that cannot afford to pay for their medical expenses are the ones i am talking about. I am talking about people that need medical but cannot afford it. I would give it to a person of this predicament. the dole heads get it regardless and the majority of them are in good health but the people that need this sh1t are frightened to call a bloody ambulance out because it will be a 100 euro charge. look if I could give this card to a person that needed it i would. you're statement is nullified.

You seem to not understand how the scheme works. Being a primary health care professional I do.

If you have a medical card and never use it then you are not impacting on the health care system.

You are not denying someone else a card.

If you feel so strongly I suggest you go to your LHO and give them back your card. Tell them you don't need it. However doing so won't make a blind bit of difference to someone else's eligibility or their waiting time.

zenno · 03-03-2012 02:23PM

ebixa82 wrote: »

You seem to not understand how the scheme works. Being a primary health care professional I do.

If you have a medical card and never use it then you are not impacting on the health care system.

You are not denying someone else a card.

If you feel so strongly I suggest you go to your LHO and give them back your card. Tell them you don't need it. However doing so won't make a blind bit of difference to someone else's eligibility or their waiting time.

I understand you're point but it's just bugging me when i see people i know and others in serious need of medical help on and off and i have a card sitting here that could benefit someone else. but i see the point you are making. that's the way she goes as they say. ah well.

micropig · 03-03-2012 02:26PM

ebixa82 wrote: »

You seem to not understand how the scheme works. Being a primary health care professional I do.

If you have a medical card and never use it then you are not impacting on the health care system.

You are not denying someone else a card.

If you feel so strongly I suggest you go to your LHO and give them back your card. Tell them you don't need it. However doing so won't make a blind bit of difference to someone else's eligibility or their waiting time.

From what I understood Zenno means that being a compassionate person, Zenno would gladly give up their medical card, if it meant that an ill person waiting was given one in exchange. Zenno has a heart and does not like to see people suffering, when Zenno has what they need, but is not using it.

We know that's not how the system works.

I understood that from their first post.

Being a primary healthcare professional, you are obviously intelligent, can you give us more of an insight in to how it works?

zenno · 03-03-2012 02:38PM

ebixa82 wrote: »

However doing so won't make a blind bit of difference to someone else's eligibility or their waiting time.

That's the problem with this backward country isn't it. no matter what you try and do it makes everything upside-down and twisted. and whats really unfortunate is the impression i'm getting is, who gives a sh1t about other people, the backward rule applies at all times without making a functioning stable adjustment to the citizens of this country's needs. the people that need this medical are the ones not getting it and it's just flouted to any arsehole on the street. i'm not ashamed to be on the social welfare but i am ashamed to hold a medical card when others need it much more than me.

ebixa82 · 03-03-2012 02:41PM

micropig wrote: »

From what I understood Zenno means that being a compassionate person, Zenno would gladly give up their medical card, if it meant that an ill person waiting was given one in exchange. Zenno has a heart and does not like to see people suffering, when Zenno has what they need, but is not using it.

We know that's not how the system works.

I understood that from their first post.

Being a primary healthcare professional, you are obviously intelligent, can you give us more of an insight in to how it works?

I understood he was willing to give his up. I was just trying to point out that him giving it up won't benefit another person.

Everyone has to be assessed individually. Reviews may be time consuming but are essential to ensure people who are no longer entitled to a card are not abusing the system.

The system is swamped with applications at the moment, an administrative nightmare. This is not helped by, as has been described above, the number of people who have not bothered to fill out the application form correctly.

What happens then? They have to re-apply with all forms correct placing them freshly at the back of the queue. Nobody to blame but themselves.

It has been suspected that the HSE maybe intentionally prolonging the duration of application to reduce costs.

If somebody has to wait 3-4 months before their card is granted or renewed then they must pay privately for their Doctor and prescriptions.

This could potentially save the HSE 400-500 per person in costs at the upper level. If this was to happen to 50,000 people then the savings to them could be considerable. They have budgets and targets to stick too.

And no I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

firemansammie · 03-03-2012 02:47PM

I had a baby in Oct, called them up about getting one for my son. I was advised to send in his birth cert, pps no along with my medical card number and my pps no. All this was done the first week in December. I still have not had a response from them. I have tried calling them but on pay as you go phone credit I cant hold for more than 30 mins (1st time hung up after 20 second time 30 mins) I got through last week and was told I should have called to "esculate" it? they would send it up and would have a decission in 7/10 working days. Surely it shouldnt take 3 months to process that when they have all the info already?

micropig · 03-03-2012 02:52PM

ebixa82 wrote: »

Everyone has to be assessed individually. Reviews may be time consuming but are essential to ensure people who are no longer entitled to a card are not abusing the system.

The system is swamped with applications at the moment, an administrative nightmare. This is not helped by, as has been described above, the number of people who have not bothered to fill out the application form correctly.

What happens then? They have to re-apply with all forms correct placing them freshly at the back of the queue. Nobody to blame but themselves.

So in the medical card processing office, receive application, assess, put on system, change details on standard letter, Send to medical professionals etc, wait for response, Follow up if no response, Notify applicant. next

ebixa82 wrote: »

It has been suspected that the HSE maybe intentionally prolonging the duration of application to reduce costs.

Unions

ebixa82 wrote: »

If somebody has to wait 3-4 months before their card is granted or renewed then they must pay privately for their Doctor and prescriptions.

This could potentially save the HSE 400-500 per person in costs at the upper level. If this was to happen to 50,000 people then the savings to them could be considerable. They have budgets and targets to stick too.

And no I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

Why 3-4 months, what's holding up the process?
How many applications are being processed doing daily, where's the weakest link in the chain?

ebixa82 · 03-03-2012 03:11PM

micropig wrote: »

So in the medical card processing office, receive application, assess, put on system, change details on standard letter, Send to medical professionals etc, wait for response, Follow up if no response, Notify applicant. next

Unions

Why 3-4 months, what's holding up the process?
How many applications are being processed doing daily, where's the weakest link in the chain?

The delay would be due to the sheer volume of people applying, the likes of which have never been seen before, combined with a poorly managed administration system.

If the HSE was private the underperforming and incompetent staff would be weeded out and replaced. As it is the public sector these people cannot be fired, delaying the whole system.

I don't get your "unions" comment btw!

30,000 still waiting for medical card

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