MS sufferer rides wheelchair for 2 hours to kill herself

Fenian Army wrote: »

Brave of her? Selfish and dangerous more like, what if someone saw her floating and jumped in to save her but drowned?

Thats what happened my friend a few years ago, saw someone face down in a canal, jumped in to try and rescue him and drowned himself.

She obviously didn't think of that. But if she was legally allowed to end her life in a comfortable way then that wouldn't be an issue.

Fenian Army wrote: »

Brave of her? Selfish and dangerous more like, what if someone saw her floating and jumped in to save her but drowned? Thats what happened my friend a few years ago, saw someone face down in a canal, jumped in to try and rescue him and drowned himself.

Not to mention the longterm effects it could have on the workers who saw her, the copper who tried to save her, the paramedics, the family she left behind etc etc.

It's always strange when a story like this comes along and people applaud the woman involved for being brave on the one hand and then as a society we are trying our hardest to prevent suicide on the other.

I know of a family on the continent with a similarly disabled member who was unofficially told to consider 'euthanasia' as an option.. why? because their family were struggling to cope with the costs of long term care. Fantastic in that case. As if he wasn't feeling like a burden on them already. It may seem fine to support euthanasia but not so easy to put into practice and implement. It's an incredibly difficult situation which isn't solved by simply legalising euthanasia.

Mr.Biscuits wrote: »

Yet another reason why the name 'Terry Wahls' should be known to all MS sufferrers and her book: the first prescription written by neurologists for newly diagnosed patients.

Some caution is required here. Wahls only talks about Secondary Progressive (SP) MS, not the Relapsing-Remitting (RR) type, which is far more common at first diagnosis. In general, claims of "reversing MS" need to approached very sceptically, and Wahls has a disclaimer on her website in case anyone thinks she is making such claims. Of course diet and exercise are beneficial, but that's a different question.

As already pointed out (I think): what happens in clinics in Switzerland etc. is not Euthanasia, it's assisted suicide. If you saw that documentary made by Sir Terry Pratchett, the patient took the pills unaided. Such details are scrupulously observed for legal reasons. The only thing that prevented the patient in the OP's story from doing this was cost, not a legal issue of any sort.

It's not nice to think about it, but everyone dies: if we know the day is approaching, then refusing to think about the details of when and how is a denial of that fact. My concerns about dying are not about death in the abstract sense, but are about the details. Will it be painful? Will I be a burden on others, alive or dead? These are questions that we can at least try to answer, and we can find ways to avoid those potential problems in the process of dying.

FLOOPER wrote: »

That's a contradiction in terms. The person with the degenerative disease is suffering psychological trauma enough to want to end their own lives.

Would you not stop a member of your family from killing themselves if they were suffering from psychologcal trauma brought on by depression/schizonphrenia/physical illness?

The crime is that sufferers aren't getting or can't get the right treatment both physical and psychological.

It just seems sometimes that life is treated like an affliction and disease rather than something that should be more respected. Kill it and the pain goes away. What most depressed suicidals think!

But depression causing psychological trauma can be treated.

A terminal illness causing psychological trauma can't be treated so you can't truly rid the person of the trauma.

And of course there's the crucial factor of the loss of quality of life involved in debilitating illnesses, completely apart from any psychological trauma. Again, that's often of a purely physical nature and untreatable.

Terrible thing that woman had to do, a really tragic case. I'm a 33 year old guy with progressive MS, I certainly hope I don't end up in that situation. If I do I'll be paying a final visit out to Howth Head, life isn't worth living if you are in constant pain and getting more and more disabled.

FLOOPER wrote: »

Well yes to a point but the point I'm tryingto make is that it's not the debilitating illness directly that's causing the sufferer to end their life but the psychological trauma around it.

People who have schizophrenia are never cured. Their symptoms are diminsihed somewhat by drugs if they're lucky. It's supposed to be one of the most tortuous diseases one can suffer from.

I think if more energy/compassion/love was put into sufferers of MS into their mental wellbeing then I think as a species/people we would be going in the right direction.

I'm sure hospices around the country could teach us something maybe.

I agree that care aimed at the psychological suffering of people with debilitating illnesses is essential.

I just think that for some people the loss of quality of life is too high, from their perspective, and they can quite rationally decide that they don't want to carry on living.

The poor lady,I would have certainly done what she did and would fully support the introduction of legal euthanasia or assisted suicide.

I always have been for it. However, when reading this I thought of my own recent experiences. I was diagnosed with a long term illness, thankfully nothing that would effect me as severely as ms, however I spent a few weeks in hospital in a ward with people who were suffering from ms of various levels of severity, it's not a nice disease at any level believe me. I got to know one girl very well over about four weeks, she could only use her head and neck and her left arm to a minimal extent. I got to know her so well, between the two if us we operated like one person and helped each other with things that we couldnt do for ourselves.she generally was very content with life and having lived with her ms for many years she had accepted her lot in life. however the one thing that ate away at her was the burden that she felt she placed on her family. I am almost certain that this girl if given the chance and because she is just so selfless would probably choose assisted suicide if given the option purely because she would believe her family would rather not have her as a burden despite her otherwise enjoying life, sadly her family did come across like this to me when they came to visit her which was no where near as frequently as my own family visited me.

Ultimately, meeting this girl and getting to know her and what she was like made me really think about this and wonder how much this option could be regulated to ensure that people were choosing suicide for the "right" reasons rather than feeling pressured into it.

I hope I have explained this properly and that people understand what I am saying. I don't disagree with it and have always been for it but I do now have concerns about it after learning more about people who would seriously consider this option.

Stark wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGXSPf9b-xI

I didn't bother clicking on that video once I saw it was by "The Onion". I've no idea why you think a satirical video would fit right in the middle of this pretty serious discussion which is going on!

Stark wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGXSPf9b-xI

Seriously not funny !!

MrStuffins wrote: »

And for those (the usual suspects in at least one case) here saying what she did was selfish.............. so what? Good for her! She was living a life of hell and wanted to end it! The decorators that saw it will get over it!I doubt she actually thought "Well, I better spend the next 40 years trapped behind 2 eyeballs because if I kill myself, someone might see me and have a few nightmares"

"A few nightmares"... lol. Someone very close to me is retired from an emergency service for almost 15 years now and still gets nightmares/emotional problems about things they came across and dealt with during their career. It's easy for you to say 'ah sure it will only be a few nightmares'..

MrStuffins wrote: »

Yeah, and it seems it's easy for you to compare a guy you've never met seeing this lady floating in the water with someone who has worked in the Emergency Services for 15 years :rolleyes:

..and the PC who jumped into the canal and got her out and presumably tried to resucitate her? Ah sure, she'll get over it too. Maybe a few nightmares...