Do you stop to help at car accidents?

the keen edge · 24-02-2012 12:53PM

Joey the lips wrote: »

on a different note op have you thought of setting up a camera and filming the amount of accidents then send it to the local papers or council.

summerskin wrote: »

I take it you live just outside Kilcolgan?

Drove past at 8am this morning and the wreckage looked awful. I'm surprised and happy that nobody was killed.

It is a blackspot though, and mainly caused by the old folk driving at 50kmh on a 100 limit area, and the yummy mummies dropping their kids off at the nearby school who NEED to get as near as possible to pick up little Fiachra and Emily, slowing to a halt in the process.

But yes, I have always stopped to try and help where appropriate and possible.

Yeah it is in Kilcolgan.

The reason that there is a lot of accidents at this particular location has nothing to do with the school, nor IMO slow driving speeds; the section of road at this location is like something out of GranTourismo.
Incidentally one of the drivers was arrested at the scene this morning.

Back on topic, I'm glad that others find my OP shocking. By the time I got out to the accident two cars had stopped, they too commented on how unbelievable they thought it was that the cars before them drove away.

later12 · 24-02-2012 12:59PM

xoxyx wrote: »

I find that hard to comprehend. I've heard of the bystander effect, in particular in the Jamie Bulger case, where, despite seeing a child crying and being led off by two slightly older children, nobody got involved

2 schoolkids holding hands with a crying toddler walking around a supermarket?

Yeah, I'd just presume the Mum was off buying cigarettes or gone for a wizz tbh. I would certainly stop to help someone who wasn't injured as best I could, but there's nothing particularly strange or noteworthy about that Jamie Bulger scene you describe.

whitewave · 24-02-2012 01:01PM

I stopped at a crash once and my friend ran down to help while I waited for the ambulance...within about 5 minutes a massive crowd had gathered round, with the majority of them taking out phones and recording what was going on. Fairly disgusted me to be honest. One girl even leaned over the stretcher while the guy was being brought up to the ambulance so she could get a decent look at his misery...

Run_to_da_hills · 24-02-2012 01:05PM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Isn't it illegal not to??

In France it is a serious offence not to, In Germany and the US I believe not, I have even heard of off duty paramedics not wanting to get involved in accident cases because of potential lawsuits in case something goes wrong.

Overflow · 24-02-2012 01:12PM

That's shocking behavior to be honest. Is it not a legal requirement to stop, well it is here in Norway. Not sure about back home.

As part of compulsory driving school here, you have to take a basic first aid course before you get your drivers license.

I was in a crash last week, lost control of the car on ice and crashed into a snow bank. The car was stuck and damaged. Every single car the passed by stopped to help me out and stop traffic, one person let me use their phone (battery dead on mine), another three lads were crawling around in knee deep snow checking my car for damage. Then a guy with a winch on his jeep pulled me free and then the lads gave me a push start. They also followed me all the way home to make sure the car was ok and i didn't crash again

I would have no problem doing the same.

opinion guy · 24-02-2012 01:15PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Turns out she had gone to another hospital for religious reasons

Wha ??
You don't get to choose which hospital the ambulance brings you to - for religious reasons or otherwise

Celly Smunt · 24-02-2012 01:16PM

Only stop and help if it's safe to do so,the last thing the emergency services need is for somebody else to be splattered all over the road as well the crash.

be sensible not stupidly heroic.

seamus · 24-02-2012 01:18PM

The only time I've ever come across an accident where there were no Gardai in attendance was in the pitch dark, a car partially in the ditch off the N81, another car stopped and two people standing around. I pulled over and asked if everyone was OK and if they needed any help, but they said they were grand so I went on.

I probably wouldn't bother stopping if there are Gardai in attendence unless it looked like they needed a hand (e.g. a massive scene and only a single Garda on his own)

I can't imagine like in the OP's case actually witnessing a serious accident taking place and just driving around it. Bizarre.

_feedback_ · 24-02-2012 01:20PM

That story in the OP is incredible. How could you...

If I was in that situation I definately would stop. However, I don't stop when there is already help there.

Also, I fúcking hate rubberneckers.

24-02-2012 01:20PM

opinion guy wrote: »

Wha ??
You don't get to choose which hospital the ambulance brings you to - for religious reasons or otherwise

Well she did!! I arrived in Crumlin and she wasn't there, so the nurse did some investigation and was told that she had insisted she be taken to Temple Street because there was a muslim doctor there. And we were in Donnybrook, pretty much on the Canal so they could have gotten to Crumlin much quicker.

My name is URL · 24-02-2012 01:23PM

I've been lucky enough not to have come across any serious accident but if I ever do I'd definitely stop and help.

My brother was first on the scene of a crash which claimed the lives of a mother and her son and seriously injured another 2 kids and their dad last Christmas.. I don't know how I'd deal with such a thing.

flanders1979 · 24-02-2012 01:25PM

If it was safe to do do, like not being on a bad bend. Some people think putting on their hazard lights turns on some sort of forcefield.

Nothingbetter2d · 24-02-2012 01:32PM

i remember a women getting killed when she fell asleep at the wheel near kilkenny and went in under a lorry. i was on the bus to work (my car was in the garage having the exhaust replaced after a speedbump in kilkenny city promptly removed it the day before) when we came across the accident. the truck's engine was on fire and the bus driver jumped out with some fire extinguishers to put out the fire. the truck driver was ok some minor scratches and in shock....but the poor women was mangled under the engine block of the lorry. she died instantly.

the keen edge · 24-02-2012 01:41PM

seamus wrote: »

I can't imagine like in the OP's case actually witnessing a serious accident taking place and just driving around it. Bizarre.

elviscostello wrote: »

That story in the OP is incredible. How could you...

If I was in that situation I definately would stop. However, I don't stop when there is already help there.

These cars drove through the scene of the accident before steam started coming out of what remained of the engine bay of the crashed car; they were immediately there upon the scene.

As I was looking out the window I could hear the cracking of glass and plastic under their tyres as they drove through.

I don't want to come across as righteous.
As I was going over to the scene, I was thinking to myself Do I really want to see this? I don't really want to see this.
As I mention before, I recently did a Occupational first aid course, and even thought you're thought pretty basic stuff, it gave me a bit of confidence that maybe I could possibly help someone.

Please Kill Me · 24-02-2012 01:43PM

Yes, I have stopped and always will. I would like to think that if my missus was in an accident, someone would stop to help her. I'd always help, without hesitation.

Whispered · 24-02-2012 01:52PM

I would stop and have done before, luckily nothing serious. Fingers crossed it will stay that way. I genuinely don't feel I'd be any good in a crisis.

I was in an accident where a cow ran into the side/front of the car I was travelling in and came in through the front window. The car was in a worse state than the cow! I was 7, my sister 3, sitting screaming in the back, It was so long ago it's kind of vague but I remember looking out the window at someone in a slowly passing car looking back in at me.

I also remember we had just gotten a hamster called sox, when the car braked he got thrown against his cage. He spent months with bar marks across his little body.

Lived for years after!

What should one do in an emergency situation? I know it depends on the situation, but are there some "golden rules" or anything?

First Aid Ireland · 24-02-2012 01:52PM

People have their own reasons for not stopping. Off the top of my head I know a couple of people who faint at the sight of blood. I know lots of people who wouldn't have the confidence. People might be afraid of stopping their own car, with their small baby in it, on a busy road.

People have all kinds of reasons and, by and large, i think they should be respected.

The vast majority of untrained intervention at most RTAs won't be the difference between life or death.

That's not to say that there's no role for compassion and holding a hand. of course there is. The studies mostly show that the less traumatic the immediate aftermath of an incident, the less severe any PTSD might be.

But I don't think people are dying with any kind of regularity because of the inaction of strangers.

Most times I've been at a situation like that there's been too many people trying to get involved, as opposed to too few.

I still always have total admiration for people with zero training who are just willing to roll their sleeves up and get stuck in at bad accidents. They may not be able to help much, but it's a really admirable mindset.

Cedrus · 24-02-2012 01:55PM

I've heard* of medical professionals being sued after helping at accident scenes, despite having no control of the circumstances or even the necessary equipment, they may even have saved a life but not the injured parties full mobility. I know several doctors and nurses who refuse to stop because of this.

Myself I'm fortunate to have only arrived at scenes where the emergency services were in control or minor accidents where I've helped pick up motorbikes, switch of engines, clear the road etc.

I have also had a couple of bike spills where nobody helped at all, one where about 30 car drivers saw me come off on ice and just drove on, one where several people helped me up and gave me witness contact details, and one where people came out of nearby buildings, called 3 ambulances, brought me a blanket and a mug of sugary tea.

I suppose if an accident happens immediately in front, some people don't react in time, they manage to avoid joining the crash but they're past the scene before the penny drops that they could do something. Then they're embarrassed or just callous and think 'there's other people behind, they'll stop'. While the people in the say 3rd & 4th cars, have a little more time to react and so stop.

* Sorry no references

meoklmrk91 · 24-02-2012 02:03PM

I was in a car accident not long after I first started driving, about six months. Was coming around a normal bend at about 30mph when the car just started to skid out of no where, crashed into a fence but me and my friend who were in the car were fine, even so a car with two fellas that was behind me and saw everything just drove on past.

I rang my dad who came down immediately and ate the head of me, assuming I was speeding etc. The gardai arrived on and made sure we were okay and once we got the car going we headed along. Then just a around the corner there were the two lads who had passed us out, they had had a much worse crash than us and the car was in bits as they had gone up on a ditch and crashed into a pole. As it turned out there was oil spilled on the road which caused both accident, my Dad was eating crow. And as for the two lads in the car well I suppose karma is a bitch. For that reason I always help when I come upon an accident. Pulled two drunk lads out of a caddy that was upside down with it's nose stuck in a ditch. They were both out of it and were very lucky to walk away, never ever drink and drive kids!

Pigeon Reaper · 24-02-2012 02:11PM

Some people just cannot cope with any new experience and go into ostrich mode. This can explain some of the behaviour. Other times everyone assumes someone else will look after an incident if there are numerous people around.It's not just with traffic accidents.
Think about when the last time you passed a drunken person on the ground in town? How do you know he was drunk and hadn't just fallen/ had a fit etc? You assume because of many people someone will have stopped if they had fallen but this isn't the case andthe same is true of thinking people on the ground are generally drunk(most of the time they are but not always)
Most people just aren't wired to deal with any strange incidents and will convince themselves that something else has happened or is more important than dealing with the true emergency. It was a bad crash but the first driver who didn't stop probably convinced themselves that it was a minor bang. The others followed due to flocking theory. The reverse also happens if one person stops to help others will stop too.

seamus · 24-02-2012 02:11PM

Whispered wrote: »

What should one do in an emergency situation? I know it depends on the situation, but are there some "golden rules" or anything?

Primary thing to do is assess the situation - how many cars, how many people, how many injuries. You should assume a person is injured unless they're out of the car, walking and talking and telling you they're fine. Then ring the emergency services and give them this information. This will help them decide how many vehicles to send.

Flag down other passing vehicles - when people see you stopped and helping, they'll be inclined to assume it's under control. So you need to wave people down to assist you. On a dark country road it's a good idea to get people to park 50m or so either side of the accident with flashers and lights on (visible as possible, basically) and waving and warning people to slow down.

If the road is small or whatever, it's also a good idea to send someone down to the closest main junction to direct any ES vehicles on the way.

paperclip2 · 24-02-2012 02:15PM

My brother died as a result of a car accident five years ago. He was front seat passenger coming home from work on a Friday evening when the driver of his car drove out across a bad intersection and a van went into the passenger side of the car.
A good few people in the area came to help straightaway. They called the cards, the fire brigade and ambulance. They brought blankets and stayed with my brother until he left in the ambulance where he lost consciousness and never recovered it.
I'm so grateful to those people who cared enough to stay with him while he was alive and conscious in those last moments. They tried to help him, they kept him calm, they held his hand, they comforted him as much as they could. I wasn't there, nor were any of my family but it means so much to me to know that he wasn't alone.

So yes I would stop at an accident.

the keen edge · 24-02-2012 02:18PM

Cedrus wrote: »

I suppose if an accident happens immediately in front, some people don't react in time, they manage to avoid joining the crash but they're past the scene before the penny drops that they could do something. Then they're embarrassed or just callous and think 'there's other people behind, they'll stop'. While the people in the say 3rd & 4th cars, have a little more time to react and so stop.

I think this here sums up the bones of why people don't stop.
People probably feel that they may also be of no help if they haven't had any training.

Still as mentioned before there is always a need to give support and comfort.

And IMO once one person stops other will also: if you being the first person to stop compels other to stop and assist, that in itself is help.

Cedrus wrote: »

I've heard* of medical professionals being sued after helping at accident scenes, despite having no control of the circumstances or even the necessary equipment, they may even have saved a life but not the injured parties full mobility. I know several doctors and nurses who refuse to stop because of this.

As long as you follow the training you have received, a first responder is legally protected.
The driver of one of the vehicle keep badgering me(in polish), to pull his suspected dislocated arm back in to place as Mel Gibson use in Lethal Weapon!.

Tactfully I avoided doing so.

xsiborg · 24-02-2012 02:22PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

In France it is a serious offence not to, In Germany and the US I believe not, I have even heard of off duty paramedics not wanting to get involved in accident cases because of potential lawsuits in case something goes wrong.

this.

it's becoming all too common nowadays and even so more prevalent in america for accident victims to seek compensation from their rescuers, so it is only a matter of time before we hear of a case of it here in "compo culture" ireland.

i would be thinking if i were to attempt to rescue someone from imminent danger that i may actually do more harm than good, especially in the case of a vehicle collision where injuries such as whiplash, spinal, and cranial injuries are quite common. moving them or any attempt to make them more comfortable may actually incapacitate them further.

i remember also when i did first aid training as part of my lifeguard training course, and back then at the time, AIDS was big in the media, and there wasn't a whole lot known about it, and for the ordinary joe public, there still isnt a whole lot known about it. the reason i mention this is that questions were asked of our instructor about attempting mouth to mouth resuscitation on a person who was visibly bleeding. the advice at the time was that there was nothing you COULD do.

these are just some of the fears of people who would want to offer assistance- they could be sued should the person recover, they could cause the victim further injury, or they could contract an infectious disease from the transmission of bodily fluids.

myself i was involved in an accident years ago while out cycling my bike, i attempted to cross a four lane road on a dark night wearing no visibility gear, and failing to look left before i attempted to cross- my own fault basically.

i got hit by an oncoming car in the first lane. i wasnt badly injured but the driver was badly shook up. i made sure she was ok before retrieving my bicycle from underneath her car. she continued on her way.

slightly dazed and confused by the experience, i didnt have my wits about me when i hopped back up on my bike and went to carry on into the second lane. whereupon i was hit by a second oncoming car that didnt see me. this time the driver reversed back a bit off my bicycle, put the car in gear, and sped off in haste. i got up off the road and retrieved my bicycle, yet again, only this time it was in bits.

this time rather than attempt to get up on my mangled at this stage bicycle, i checked the next two lanes before i crossed the road safely, whereupon there were two young girls who had witnessed what had just happened, only one of them was lying on the ground, whereas her friend was frozen with shock. i asked the girl was her friend ok, her friend was unable to speak so i checked the unconscious girl's vital signs and deduced she must have just fainted.

i called 999 for an ambulance for the girl (back then i had a solid brick of an 088 phone that hadnt been damaged in either collision) and waited til they arrived. the paramedic didnt know where to look as i wasnt looking in great shape myself, yet trying to explain to him that it was for the girl that had fainted (who was by now sitting up, as i had told her not to try standing) that i called the ambulance.

i was quite embarrassed by the whole incident.

for those who are wondering- in Portlaoise there is a four laneway road called James Fintan Lawlor Avenue, which is quite a steep hill, you can go in along by the wall inside the shopping centre that leads down to the car park, and then come out onto the road through a small gap in the wall, to cross the road near the blue overhead bridge, to the street across from that to get to the main street in Portlaoise. that is where this incident happened.

i57dwun4yb1pt8 · 24-02-2012 02:24PM

funny this, with all the motorist anguish at cyclists - mosts cyclists will stop and help a fellow cyclist whether down, or punctured etc .

and likely stop for a motorist in trouble as well.

i cant imagine bypassing a fresh accident , where no one is attending thats just the lowest of behaviour
and it may happen to them someday - and they might have lived if someone stopped.

Biggins · 24-02-2012 02:31PM

If I was in an accident myself, I would hope someone would stop - well someone as long as it wasn't Tom Cruise!

flanders1979 · 24-02-2012 02:33PM

Biggins wrote: »

If I was in an accident myself, I would hope someone would stop - well someone as long as it wasn't Tom Cruise!

Why not, the man is practically Jesus.

Pigeon Reaper · 24-02-2012 02:40PM

seamus wrote: »

Primary thing to do is assess the situation - how many cars, how many people, how many injuries.

The first thing to do is assess the scene safety. If it's a traffic accident try to get the traffic stopped safely. Check for other hazards such as fire or glass. Only then do you go to help someone else. Last thing anyone needs is to be run down while trying to help someone.

Biggins · 24-02-2012 02:54PM

flanders1979 wrote: »

Why not, the man is practically Jesus.

Well if we were to believe his cult, more like practically 'alien' to be accurate!

Noopti · 24-02-2012 02:55PM

Our society is gone to ****. People won't help/are afraid to help nowadays whereas years ago it would be a different story.

A less serious example, but a similar situation I witnessed a couple of days ago. Was waiting at the bus stop on Dame St with loads of people around, and this young boy (about 5 or 6) walks by bawling his eyes out, calling for his mother. He was really, really distressed. Did anyone try and help the poor kid? Of course not.....not their problem I suppose. :rolleyes:
As he walked by me I started to walk towards him to see if I could help when a kind woman ran past me towards him. She crouched down to see what she could do, then his mother emerged from a shop up the road. She also didn't seem to give two ****s that she left her young son behind on one of the busiest streets in Dublin.

It really pissed me off actually, people need to take some f*cking responsibility for the fact they live in a community of fellow people and not just in their own little bubbles of existence.

Do you stop to help at car accidents?

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