Paddy Power's 'transphobic' ad

Doc Ruby · 21-02-2012 12:35PM

44leto wrote: »

That is a pretty disgusting attitude, they are people in the wrong bodies so with the miracle of modern medicine they can at least make their lives a little more comfortable.

I know a fair few trans people though, male and female, and to be honest they do tend to be a somewhat touchy and unpredictable bunch, which is what happens when you inject yourself with a load of hormones that aren't meant to be there.

Wouldn't hold it against them, sure its the same as weightlifters do to bodymod themselves only more extreme, but it is what it is.

smash · 21-02-2012 12:36PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

Can you blame them for being offended, when people continue to display such hatred and prejudice against them in public?

That's the thing. Until such time as they have a gender reassignment surgery they are seen as the sex they are born with. So while they might feel like a woman, in the eyes of the law they are just men dressed as women.

While the ad may be offensive, it's not really prejudice if you think about it. It's simply saying spot the men dressed as women. And that's right when you consider the law.

ejmaztec · 21-02-2012 12:37PM

Anyone offended by the ad should grow a pair.

44leto · 21-02-2012 12:38PM

Yay Huzzar lets all bash a minority, because its fun,,:rolleyes::rolleyes:

St.Spodo · 21-02-2012 12:38PM

Fishooks12 wrote: »

As a man trapped in a womans body I'm not offended, so lighten up

It's not your place to speak for all of your gender. This is an offensive ad and a group already dscriminated against shouldn't have to be the butt of cheap jokes.

Micky Dolenz · 21-02-2012 12:39PM

I think it's a cheap shot at a section of the population. We live in a time of cheap shots and laughs though. It's not surprising.

Bad Panda · 21-02-2012 12:40PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

Can you blame them for being offended, when people continue to display such hatred and prejudice against them in public?
What do you mean by "freaks shows?"
Come join us in the 21st century.

That post was clearly a joke. And a funny one. Are you offended by jokes in general? Racist etc? Look, everything is open to being made fun of in some context in my opinion. It does not mean the person making the jokes is racist/homophobic/anti-religion etc.

I'm open to having the p!ss taken out of myself and I have done for various reasons. I can see the funny side and I know people commenting don't necessarily mean it maliciously.

While I can't blame some of them for being offended, I also can't help feel that some groups/lobbyists just want publicity.

The King of Moo · 21-02-2012 12:40PM

smash wrote: »

That's the thing. Until such time as they have a gender reassignment surgery they are seen as the sex they are born with. So while they might feel like a woman, in the eyes of the law they are just men dressed as women.

While the ad may be offensive, it's not really prejudice if you think about it. It's simply saying spot the men dressed as women. And that's right when you consider the law.

I don't think the ad is very prejudiced. Silly and unfunny, yes, but I don't think there was any intention to offend (but I can see how some would get offended).

It was the "freaks show" comment aimed at all transgendered people I was quoting that I was referring to.

jester77 · 21-02-2012 12:42PM

Maybe it's just the Irish transgenders that are offended. Over here there is a theater show run by transgenders, it's fun and entertaining and 1 part of it is to guess if she's hanging.

stevenmu · 21-02-2012 12:42PM

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

also transphobic is almost as retarded a term as islamophobic

almost

As a transphobic islamaphobic retard, I'm offended by your repeated use of the work "almost".

44leto · 21-02-2012 12:43PM

Doc Ruby wrote: »

I know a fair few trans people though, male and female, and to be honest they do tend to be a somewhat touchy and unpredictable bunch, which is what happens when you inject yourself with a load of hormones that aren't meant to be there.

Wouldn't hold it against them, sure its the same as weightlifters do to bodymod themselves only more extreme, but it is what it is.

So even then they are willing to do that, that must be a powerful urge, they can't un trans themselves, no more the a gay can un-gay themselves.

If they are born that way, they are born that way, you wouldn't hate or ridicule a black guy or a disabled guy for the way he was born, that would be absurd and incredibly stupid so why do so with a trans person.

Micky Dolenz · 21-02-2012 12:43PM

jester77 wrote: »

Maybe it's just the Irish transgenders that are offended. Over here there is a theater show run by transgenders, it's fun and entertaining and 1 part of it is to guess if she's hanging.

I've seen comics take the piss out of their size, race, sex etc. Does this make it ok for everyone else to do it?

21-02-2012 12:44PM

44leto wrote: »

So even then they are willing to do that, that must be a powerful urge, they can't un trans themselves, no more the a gay can un-gay themselves.

If they are born that way, they are born that way, you wouldn't hate or ridicule a black guy or a disabled guy for the way he was born, that would be absurd and incredibly stupid so why do so with a trans person.

in this case it seems more akin to a black guy making fun of black guys, which i think is acceptable to find amusing, no?

Power pointed out that several members of the transgendered community in the UK had participated in the making of the ad

2ndcoming · 21-02-2012 12:44PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

Can you blame them for being offended, when people continue to display such hatred and prejudice against them in public?
What do you mean by "freaks shows?"
Come join us in the 21st century.

You need to get a sense of humour. What are you, German or something?!

smash · 21-02-2012 12:45PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

It was the "freaks show" comment aimed at all transgendered people I was quoting that I was referring to.

I know of a trans person who nearly got fired because they kept using the female toilets in their office. The female staff objected countless times and they were brought up in front of HR where they said they must live as a woman. The company came down hard on them and stated that just because of their situation, it didn't mean they'd have special privileges. If they wanted to use the female toilets they'd have to become a female through surgery. The trans person claimed prejudice were swiftly told by HR that if they wanted to go down that route they could try but they'd fail under the eyes of the law.

jester77 · 21-02-2012 12:47PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I've seen comics take the piss out of their size, race, sex etc. Does this make it ok for everyone else to do it?

No one is taking the piss out of them.

And anyone that takes the piss out of anyone based on their race, creed, sex, etc is not much of a human.

chin_grin · 21-02-2012 12:47PM

Transgenders. Great bunch of........hmm......not too sure.

The King of Moo · 21-02-2012 12:49PM

Bad Panda wrote: »

That post was clearly a joke. And a funny one. Are you offended by jokes in general? Racist etc? Look, everything is open to being made fun of in some context in my opinion. It does not mean the person making the jokes is racist/homophobic/anti-religion etc.

I'm open to having the p!ss taken out of myself and I have done for various reasons. I can see the funny side and I know people commenting don't necessarily mean it maliciously.

While I can't blame some of them for being offended, I also can't help feel that some groups/lobbyists just want publicity.

Well then, I've really lost my sense of humour, as not only was it not clearly a joke to me, thinking of it now as a joke, it still doesn't seem particularly funny.

I wasn't offended by it though, as I'm not transsexual. I just though it seemed to be a pretty hateful remark. Now Mickey Dazzler may have meant it as an ironic joke, but maybe it's a sad indication of the neanderthalic attitudes which still exist among some people in this country that I assumed it wasn't a joke.

As for jokes which take the piss out of all groups: it would be ideal if we could do that, but there is a difference in making a joke about a dominant social group, like white straight men, and a minority who experience lots of prejudice.

No-one's that bothered about jokes about the dominant group, because as a whole, they have it pretty good.

But jokes coming from the dominant group aimed at the minority can come across as bullying, even if the joker has the best intentions. And I can understand that while some transsexuals might take the joke, others might get offended.

It's all about power relations: there is a difference between the little guy laughing at the big guy, and the big guy laughing at the little guy.

TheZohanS · 21-02-2012 12:53PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I've seen comics take the piss out of their size, race, sex etc. Does this make it ok for everyone else to do it?

Every week we have a thread in AH that discriminates in some way, it seems to be the norm here now, how long was that fat girl thread going for? Is that right? No, it's not.

People laugh, for the most part, at jokes that don't affect them. As soon as it they're included in the demographic that's being insulted, bam. Uproar.

The King of Moo · 21-02-2012 12:54PM

smash wrote: »

I know of a trans person who nearly got fired because they kept using the female toilets in their office. The female staff objected countless times and they were brought up in front of HR where they said they must live as a woman. The company came down hard on them and stated that just because of their situation, it didn't mean they'd have special privileges. If they wanted to use the female toilets they'd have to become a female through surgery. The trans person claimed prejudice were swiftly told by HR that if they wanted to go down that route they could try but they'd fail under the eyes of the law.

I don't think that was a case of prejudice though, just the company being practical. It's the people who talk about them as "freaks" or having something wrong in the head that I mean as the prejudiced ones.

ejmaztec · 21-02-2012 12:54PM

We're long overdue for a gingerphobic thread.

AeoNGriM · 21-02-2012 12:56PM

St.Spodo wrote: »

It's not your place to speak for all of your gender. This is an offensive ad and a group already dscriminated against shouldn't have to be the butt of cheap jokes.

It's not the TENI's place to speak for their gender(s) either, but they've decided to be offended for everyone anyway, despite the fact that transgender people were involved in making the ad.

The ad wasn't intended to discriminate or poke fun at anyone, so fcuk them if they can't take a joke.

/shrug

smash · 21-02-2012 12:56PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

I don't think that was a case of prejudice though, just the company being practical. It's the people who talk about them as "freaks" or having something wrong in the head that I mean as the prejudiced ones.

I know. I agree that calling them freaks is wrong. I was just pointing out a case to show how they feel that nearly everything is prejudice against them.

The King of Moo · 21-02-2012 12:59PM

smash wrote: »

I know. I agree that calling them freaks is wrong. I was just pointing out a case to show how they feel that nearly everything is prejudice against them.

In fairness though, that was just one particular person. You can't say all transgender people would act the same way.

Doc Ruby · 21-02-2012 12:59PM

44leto wrote: »

So even then they are willing to do that, that must be a powerful urge, they can't un trans themselves, no more the a gay can un-gay themselves.

Er, I know a couple of gay guys that decided entirely of their own volition to go straight. Also this same behaviour has been observed in animals. As for powerful urges, people set themselves on fire for religion, who knows what really goes on up there.

All I'm saying in my experience is they do tend to be quicker on the trigger finger than most, which is a characteristic of hormone use and abuse.

44leto wrote: »

If they are born that way, they are born that way, you wouldn't hate or ridicule a black guy or a disabled guy for the way he was born, that would be absurd and incredibly stupid so why do so with a trans person.

There is to the best of my knowledge no biological evidence that homosexuality is a genetic trait. Doesn't mean much given our very basic understanding of how it all fits together at the moment, but again, thats how it stands right now.

Bad Panda · 21-02-2012 12:59PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

Well then, I've really lost my sense of humour, as not only was it not clearly a joke to me, thinking of it now as a joke, it still doesn't seem particularly funny.

I wasn't offended by it though, as I'm not transsexual. I just though it seemed to be a pretty hateful remark. Now Mickey Dazzler may have meant it as an ironic joke, but maybe it's a sad indication of the neanderthalic attitudes which still exist among some people in this country that I assumed it wasn't a joke.

As for jokes which take the piss out of all groups: it would be ideal if we could do that, but there is a difference in making a joke about a dominant social group, like white straight men, and a minority who experience lots of prejudice.

No-one's that bothered about jokes about the dominant group, because as a whole, they have it pretty good.

But jokes coming from the dominant group aimed at the minority can come across as bullying, even if the joker has the best intentions. And I can understand that while some transsexuals might take the joke, others might get offended.

It's all about power relations: there is a difference between the little guy laughing at the big guy, and the big guy laughing at the little guy.

It's not the kind of joke that's going to be funny the more you look at it, it was an 'in the moment' comment and you probably didn't find it funny due to your stance on the subject, fair enough.

I understand what you're saying, but I think you're being 'too PC' about the whole thing. You can't outlaw jokes.

People today are more liberal, but they won't stop being people and making jokes against others that are different.

I've seen jokes/skits about rich white guys plenty of times and plenty of 'foreigner' jokes directed at me. I don't care, because I know there's no malicious intent and it can be funny.

And for the record, I was a victim of racists taunts many, many times growing up in Ireland, but kids AND by their parents.

If someone wants to make fun of me 'for a laugh'. I'm OK with that, but it better be funny is all!

And I'll give it back and then some.

token101 · 21-02-2012 01:04PM

44leto wrote: »

That is a pretty disgusting attitude, they are people in the wrong bodies so with the miracle of modern medicine they can at least make their lives a little more comfortable.

Trans-gendered people are a group of people looking for respect and some kind of acceptance, if they regard this add as offensive then it is.

Us Irish as a whole, there is usually a national uproar when ever the British media slags us off, but it wasn't always like that, anti Irish jokes on the British media were so common it was routine. But we demanded respect and you seldom hear them now. As the TGs are now.

They participated in the ad though?

And not all Irish people are in uproar. I thought the Baddiel and Skinner sketch with Ray Houghton all those years ago was hilarious. If they want to be offended, be offended.

lardossan wrote: »

So mocking people on a nationwide marketing campaign based on their faith or race is OK too?

We had an award winning comedy series devoted to mocking people based on their faith. As long as it doesn't promote hatred and is genuinely done, or meant to be done, humourously, I don't have a problem with it. You'd struggle to find comedy that is totally neutral.

St.Spodo · 21-02-2012 01:06PM

AeoNGriM wrote: »

It's not the TENI's place to speak for their gender(s) either, but they've decided to be offended for everyone anyway, despite the fact that transgender people were involved in making the ad.

The ad wasn't intended to discriminate or poke fun at anyone, so fcuk them if they can't take a joke.

/shrug

They've decided that the ad is offensive to a minority group, which it is. It doesn't matter who isn't offended by it. If one in five transgender people find it offends their gender, it is an objectionable ad. See the ASAI's website for details about this.

token101 · 21-02-2012 01:10PM

St.Spodo wrote: »

They've decided that the ad is offensive to a minority group, which it is. It doesn't matter who isn't offended by it. If one in five transgender people find it offends their gender, it is an objectionable ad. See the ASAI's website for details about this.

Object away. Everyone objects to something. Doesn't mean it should be banned though.

chin_grin · 21-02-2012 01:11PM

St.Spodo wrote: »

They've decided that the ad is offensive to a minority group, which it is. It doesn't matter who isn't offended by it. If one in five transgender people find it offends their gender, it is an objectionable ad. See the ASAI's website for details about this.

Well I'm a man (shocking I know!) and I find the use of the male of the species as a butt of every joke in every ad and the all round "jester", discriminatory.

It's a terrible affliction being subjected to this constant stereotyping by the media. That I either should be a dab hand at mechanics or should eat here or should lose weight there or that I need to stop going grey so I don't look like a twat. Or use head and shoulders and my life suddenly gets narrated like a football match and I become some pseudo-suave generic smart-casually dressed c*nt.

It's terrible so it is.

Paddy Power's 'transphobic' ad

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