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Why is sexism such a difficult topic?
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Ickle Magoo wrote: »Or perhaps it's more to do with the hit-and-run posters that make ridiculous and unfounded comments...
Got those citations yet?
Yes and I also have many of the documents that went back and forth between Sinn Fein and British Government when the Good Friday Agreement was being drawn up also.
Who exactly do you think put forth the following argument back in 2006:
I have two daughters (one son) and so paid quite close attention to the events regarding the CC case at that time and there was non-stop discussion in the media debating the legislation that was going to be brought in to attempt to deal with the aftermath of it. It was quite a hot topic (on Radio, TV etc) and it quite clear ay the time that it was women's rights groups who putting pressure on the Government to amend the law in way that it wouldn't have a negative impact on girls.An argument in favour of the immunity for girls is that without such immunity young girls may be afraid to report a sexual offence, due to a fear of being prosecuted.
The argument was also made that boys would be open to prosecution for the same act that girls would be immune from if the draft went through, but that argument didn't seem to carry as much weight as the former one, unsurprisinly.
However, let's say that you are right and that the pressure came not from "women's rights" groups, but from elsewhere, then answer me this: if the NWCI is really all about "Equality for the sexes" - as their slogan suggests, then why is that they have never come out and condemned this gender discriminatipn legistlation that was drafted at that time, legistlation that left girls immune from from prosecution for an act that, should a similarly aged boy commit, could end up with a long prison sentence.
Before you drag the: "Why should women fight for the right's of men" strawman argument out again - I, nor do I feel do many other men, expect that, despite how many times it's trotted out but what would be nice is, if feminist groups stopped lobbying for legistlation and advantages in society that has a direct knock-on effect of causing inequality. You'd think that would be a given, cosidering their "equality" mantra, guess not.
The truth is, that feminist groups are NOT about "promoting equality" at all - what they are about is 'empowering' women to get all that they can, no matter what the societal cost - basically the Spice Girls with a lobbying fuction, lets not pretend different.Ickle Magoo wrote: »Poster B: I've got my warped perceptions and I'm keeping them *fingers in ears*
Sorry, wasn't clear - is Poster B in your little scenario male or female?
Anyway, speaking of "warped perceptions" - some were expressed regrading voting rights earlier on the thread - a touch of truth to address the balance ..
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Mr.Biscuits wrote: »Yes and I also have many of the documents that went back and forth between Sinn Fein and British Government when the Good Friday Agreement was being drawn up also.
Is that just to throw onto the whole immigrants/single mothers/travellers AH rabble-rabble parody?
It's really quite simple, you either back up your assertion:Mr.Biscuits wrote: »It was feminists that put pressure on legislators to amend the law in such a fashion. It was feminists that did not care that it was leaving boys open to criminal prosecution for an act that girls would be immune from being prosecuted for. This is why people have an issue with Feminism, because they see that when feminists get into prositions of power, they are capable of causing such inequality in our society. There is ample evidence that feminists are cocerned with their own end and not too bothered if there is an assocaited knock-on of inequality for the oppoiste sex, in many areas of society, not just this one.
Or retract it...
I also love how you can jump from commenting on one Irish group to making a blanket statement about feminist groups in general with some puerile "spice-girl jibe, while accusing anyone else of straw-manning! :pac:
I'd hazard a guess that it's because of historical male privilege and centuries of male driven/supported inequality - something some of those who inherently dislike feminism seem to conveniently forget - that fighting for injustices to women, women's rights and wanting general equality are often much of a muchness...presumably why posters have had to resort at desperately grabbing at a couple of contentious pieces of legislation/proposed legislation in which there is no consensus in any political/social circle, far less some global feminist hive-mind....0 -
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Mr.Biscuits wrote: »Ickle Magoo wrote: »Or perhaps it's more to do with the hit-and-run posters that make ridiculous and unfounded comments...
Got those citations yet?
Yes and I also have many of the documents that went back and forth between Sinn Fein and British Government when the Good Friday Agreement was being drawn up also.
Who exactly do you think put forth the following argument back in 2006:
I have two daughters (one son) and so paid quite close attention to the events regarding the CC case at that time and there was non-stop discussion in the media debating the legislation that was going to be brought in to attempt to deal with the aftermath of it. It was quite a hot topic (on Radio, TV etc) and it quite clear ay the time that it was women's rights groups who putting pressure on the Government to amend the law in way that it wouldn't have a negative impact on girls.An argument in favour of the immunity for girls is that without such immunity young girls may be afraid to report a sexual offence, due to a fear of being prosecuted.
The argument was also made that boys would be open to prosecution for the same act that girls would be immune from if the draft went through, but that argument didn't seem to carry as much weight as the former one, unsurprisinly.
However, let's say that you are right and that the pressure came not from "women's rights" groups, but from elsewhere, then answer me this: if the NWCI is really all about "Equality for the sexes" - as their slogan suggests, then why is that they have never come out and condemned this gender discriminatipn legistlation that was drafted at that time, legistlation that left girls immune from from prosecution for an act that, should a similarly aged boy commit, could end up with a long prison sentence.
Before you drag the: "Why should women fight for the right's of men" strawman argument out again - I, nor do I feel do many other men, expect that, despite how many times it's trotted out but what would be nice is, if feminist groups stopped lobbying for legistlation and advantages in society that has a direct knock-on effect of causing inequality. You'd think that would be a given, cosidering their "equality" mantra, guess not.
The truth is, that feminist groups are NOT about "promoting equality" at all - what they are about is 'empowering' women to get all that they can, no matter what the societal cost - basically the Spice Girls with a lobbying fuction, lets not pretend different.Ickle Magoo wrote: »Poster B: I've got my warped perceptions and I'm keeping them *fingers in ears*
Sorry, wasn't clear - is Poster B in your little scenario male or female?
Anyway, speaking of "warped perceptions" - some were expressed regrading voting rights earlier on the thread - a touch of truth to address the balance ..
Excellent post!
Do some people not realise you can believe women's rights are important and think the feminist movement is hypocritical.0 -
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How commonplace is stuff as extreme as the above? I really don't think it is - at all.The problem I have with sexism is the same problem I have with racism.
They are both powerful words by definition but have been cheapened by abuse by the PC-left. The term "racist," "sexist" and to a lesser extent "homphobe" have been stretched to the point of incredibility.
For example, I keep forgetting this but according to various PC-lefty types, I am a racist, homophobic sexist pig.
So is it that you've a problem with sexism or the misuse of the word?
You are? Who says? And no leftie PC whatever (not very smart terms - just sayin') is going to condone FGM, forced marriages, honour killings. All they are arguing is that it's wrong to suspect all Muslims of practising the above.I'm not a big fan of multi-culturalism and there are some degenerate backwards cultures whose immigrants I don't think we have any obligation to maintain. I'm thinking of people who commit honor killings, have multuiple wives, practice forced marriages, FGM, seem to actively despise their adopted nation and its culture. So according to the multi-cultural left, I'm a racist.I also like to look at pictures/videos of good looking women. That, according to the Feminist-Left, means I'm objectifying women and am a sexist pig, and if I ever wanted to see a hooker (I haven't felt the need to so far), I would be an exploititative vile cretin sexist pig. This despite the probability that the Feminists are most likely doing the same thing with images of sexy men, and probably have a far easier time getting laid, when they want.
The entire feminist left (if all feminists are to the left) think that?! Surely only the extreme ones? Or are you still, despite all the discussion here, tarring all feminists with the fanatic brush?
Huh? Surely you can see the difference between "The 'Disco sucks' campaign was backed by those who had a problem with the dominant black, Latino and gay elements within disco; they typically liked corporate rock such as Foreigner and REO Speedwagon" and "a fan of Foreigner and REO Speedwagon".I also like 1980s music, in particular REO Speedwagon and Foreigner. I did not know this, but according to the Guardian, that makes me a racist, and a raving homophobe, with an, at best, questionable taste in music. Again, this despite the fact that I happily share a flat with two roomates that way inclined and I have no issues with them or their preferences whatsoever.
Are you sure the "PC left" across the board doesn't like you, as opposed to a few left-wing fanatics?If you haven't figured out by now, the PC-left doesn't like me very much, and I assure all readers, the feeling is very much mutual.
I'm a good bit left of centre - generally (I don't care whether my views are to the left or right, I just go with what I believe is fair) and you seem pretty reasonable to me.
Oh and I like some Foreigner and REO Speedwagon songs too. :pac:0 -
I have a problem with the misuse of the words sexist and racist, and by extension the PC left that are responsible for the vast bulk of the misuse.So is it that you've a problem with sexism or the misuse of the word?
Happens virtually every time I question multiculturalism on these boards.You are? Who says?
Agreed, I have no problem with Muslims who integrate into society and just happen to pray 5 times a day. I have a very severe problem, however, with those who don't. And I get the sense that the multicultural left doesn't like to talk about these issues.All they are arguing is that it's wrong to suspect all Muslims of practising the above.
http://www.feminist.ie/The entire feminist left (if all feminists are to the left) think that?! Surely only the extreme ones? Or are you still, despite all the discussion here, tarring all feminists with the fanatic brush?
You will find a lot of what I have a problem with featured prominently on that page, including continuous moaning about charity calendars.
And lets not forget this:
http://www.feminist.ie/2011/02/call-for-change-of-irish-law-on-prostitution/
which includes this piece:David Begg, General Secretary of ICTU said “Having legislation in place that says we, as a society, do not believe it is acceptable for someone to buy another’s body for sexual gratification, exploiting the poverty, past history of abuse or limited life choices Seems very clearly a strong position by the Feminist-Left. And crazy.
Likewise, you seem reasonable to me. I just think that some elements within the Left, and a lot of feminists and multiculturalists are frighteningly wrong on a lot of issues.I'm a good bit left of centre - generally (I don't care whether my views are to the left or right, I just go with what I believe is fair) and you seem pretty reasonable to me.Oh and I like some Foreigner and REO Speedwagon songs too. :pac:
;) https://u24.gov.ua/
Join NAFO today:0 -
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And lets not forget this:
http://www.feminist.ie/2011/02/call-for-change-of-irish-law-on-prostitution/
which includes this piece: Seems very clearly a strong position by the Feminist-Left. And crazy.
Again, not a hive mind. I'm a feminist, and my politics are usually left of centre. Here's a post from 2010 on prostitution.
You can't classify all of any group as one thing. That's why I get irritated on these threads, because you can't know a person's whole viewpoint by one tag--it's only a particular ideology, not the summing up of a person's character.
ETA: That said, the trafficking concern is a valid one. I'd tackle that by legalisation, but with the knowledge that it's not as simple as that either.0 -
ETA: That said, the trafficking concern is a valid one. I'd tackle that by legalisation, but with the knowledge that it's not as simple as that either.
A dyed in the wool leftie then! Things are never that simple with lefties, things are always very, very simple with righties!
Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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Micky Dolenz wrote: »Mod
Please do not post in this thread again.As per opening post.
Putting inflammatory words in mouths where those words weren't mentioned.
Micky,
Why don't you have your username in bold anymore like a normal MOD? I'm not trying to be smart but when you put on your mod hat now I keep thinking 'what's this jumped up fcuker raving about?'
Back on topic, did anyone say 'we're gonna need a bigger boat' yet? :pac:0 -
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Micky,
Why don't you have your username in bold anymore like a normal MOD? I'm not trying to be smart but when you put on your mod hat now I keep thinking 'what's this jumped up fcuker raving about?'
I'm not a normal mod, abnormal maybe :P. i don't like the bold name, to be honest if I could have it non italic I would be happy with that.
Whether or not my name is bold you may still think I'm a jumped up fcuker :P0 -
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Micky Dolenz wrote: »I'm not a normal mod, abnormal maybe :P. i don't like the bold name, to be honest if I could have it non italic I would be happy with that.
Whether or not my name is bold you may still think I'm a jumped up fcuker :P
It doesn't put me out ar anything, in fact I feel it gives you less weight as a mod. Maybe I'm alone here but I think you should go back coz you don't seem like a 'real mod' to me anymore!
Sorry for the interruption people.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S7v4fuguHI
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