Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Fireball07 · 19-02-2012 01:53PM

I think Zebo is brilliant, and his form this season has been superb but I wouldn't be fast-tracking him into the Irish team yet, especially when we have lots of other options. Wait till next year before bringing him, he's nowhere near the complete player yet but he has loads of talent.

Fantastic pace, good boot, his kicking is generally pretty intelligent and he's very solid under a high ball. His tackling, and defence in general is questionable as is his decision-making at times.

Hagz · 19-02-2012 02:00PM

Similar story to Fionn Carr for me atm. High strike rate, and exciting with ball in hand, but has a few too many flaws that would make me nervous to watch him play in green.

But he looks like a classy player and is still only 20? 21?. I like how he's got a good left boot as well. Hopefully come next year he'll have worked on other parts of his game.

I'd have Bowe, Trimble and Fitzgerald ahead of him atm. It'll be interesting to see if/when Howlett returns will Zebo be able to force himself into the team.

CiaranMT · 19-02-2012 02:44PM

Zebo butchered a try in the first half when he should've passed to Hurley (I think?) on his right in acres of space. Same move eventually led to Murphy's try, but he got lucky.

That said, his split-second pause to wrong-foot the defender for his own try was excellent.

jm08 · 19-02-2012 03:19PM

Fireball07 wrote: »

I think Zebo is brilliant, and his form this season has been superb but I wouldn't be fast-tracking him into the Irish team yet, especially when we have lots of other options. Wait till next year before bringing him, he's nowhere near the complete player yet but he has loads of talent.

Fantastic pace, good boot, his kicking is generally pretty intelligent and he's very solid under a high ball. His tackling, and defence in general is questionable as is his decision-making at times.

I wouldn't be rushing him either into the international team . it was interesting to hear donal lenihan say yesterday that he is very laid back but a hard worker which is a great attribute to have , very confident, reminds me of rob kearney in that respect.

is his defence that bad ? munster seem to have a very good defence and it hasn't got much worse since he has started playing regularly. Surely it can get better with more gametime.

as for his decision making - he is only finding his feet at Rabo/HCup level with regard to his pace to find out what is on or not. He sure is fast out of the blocks - ireland could do with a speedster on the wing.

Fireball07 · 19-02-2012 04:04PM

jm08 wrote: »

I wouldn't be rushing him either into the international team . it was interesting to hear donal lenihan say yesterday that he is very laid back but a hard worker which is a great attribute to have , very confident, reminds me of rob kearney in that respect.

is his defence that bad ? munster seem to have a very good defence and it hasn't got much worse since he has started playing regularly. Surely it can get better with more gametime.

as for his decision making - he is only finding his feet at Rabo/HCup level with regard to his pace to find out what is on or not. He sure is fast out of the blocks - ireland could do with a speedster on the wing.

I don't know how bad it is really, he hasn't been tested much but he does seem to have a very dodgy tackling technique at times. Hasn't been exposed much yet but it is something players can work on and hopefully he'll get it sorted before it becomes a problem.

He is definitely one of the fastest players in Ireland and does have an eye for the tryline. Decision-making should come with experience and if it does, he'll be a top top player. No need to rush him though.

Amazotheamazing · 19-02-2012 04:49PM

Fireball07 wrote: »

I don't know how bad it is really, he hasn't been tested much but he does seem to have a very dodgy tackling technique at times. Hasn't been exposed much yet but it is something players can work on and hopefully he'll get it sorted before it becomes a problem.

He is definitely one of the fastest players in Ireland and does have an eye for the tryline. Decision-making should come with experience and if it does, he'll be a top top player. No need to rush him though.

From here on out we can assume teams are going to target him, it'll be interesting to see how he copes. Course, if they are paying extra attention to him, it'll hopefully open up space elsewhere for Earls et al to exploit.

Tox56 · 19-02-2012 05:22PM

jm08 wrote: »

I wouldn't be rushing him either into the international team . it was interesting to hear donal lenihan say yesterday that he is very laid back but a hard worker which is a great attribute to have , very confident, reminds me of rob kearney in that respect.

is his defence that bad ? munster seem to have a very good defence and it hasn't got much worse since he has started playing regularly. Surely it can get better with more gametime.

as for his decision making - he is only finding his feet at Rabo/HCup level with regard to his pace to find out what is on or not. He sure is fast out of the blocks - ireland could do with a speedster on the wing.

We should have one but he's playing 13.

phog · 19-02-2012 05:37PM

totallegend wrote: »

That Wolfhounds game summed up why D Kearney is ahead of Zebo at the moment, but Zebo is starting from further back in terms of senior game time and he's making up ground, fast. Just needs to know when to back himself and when to get rid of the ball and he'll improve no end. Luckily, that's something that can be learned/coached, whereas raw pace and attacking instinct cannot, so he's not too badly off.

Both D Kearney and Zebo are still a long way short of the quality offered by a fully fit Luke Fitzgerald though.

Question; is it a done deal that Howlett is leaving/retiring at the end of the season, and if he stays, will Munster's backline not be Jones/Howlett/Laulala/Downey/Earls, i.e. no room for Zebo?

The Woulfhounds is probably the worst game to try and second guess how good/poor players are, as a team they're just together for a couple of days, it's like the BaBas, they get together try and gel and hopefully it will alraight on the night.

Teferi wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Wonderful thought.

Tox56 · 19-02-2012 05:58PM

phog wrote: »

The Woulfhounds is probably the worst game to try and second guess how good/poor players are, as a team they're just together for a couple of days, it's like the BaBas, they get together try and gel and hopefully it will alraight on the night.

Wonderful thought.

I look at it another way, it shows how a player gets on when he has to adapt to a new situation and how he plays with new people around him, as he will have to do for Ireland, and the best players rise to the top.

phog · 19-02-2012 06:04PM

Tox56 wrote: »

I look at it another way, it shows how a player gets on when he has to adapt to a new situation and how he plays with new people around him, as he will have to do for Ireland, and the best players rise to the top.

Of course you can look it at it loads of ways but if he's ever to play for Ireland he will get lots more prep time in the senior setup than what he gets when playing for the Woulfhounds.

phog · 19-02-2012 06:07PM

Save Tokula arrives in Ireland, he's greeted in Cork airport by Garrett Fitzgerald, Munster CEO.

x2_b0aeb97

Teferi · 19-02-2012 06:10PM

phog wrote: »

Wonderful thought.

I think it was sufficient reply for your inevitable blind defence of all things Munster.

Tox56 · 19-02-2012 06:14PM

phog wrote: »

Of course you can look it at it loads of ways but if he's ever to play for Ireland he will get lots more prep time in the senior setup than what he gets when playing for the Woulfhounds.

Yes I'm not arguing that, just that D Kearney should be ahead of Zebo, and the Wolfhounds was a good example of why, as they were both in the same boat.

danthefan · 19-02-2012 06:14PM

Zebo is a really really good finisher but imo he's nowhere near good enough for international rugby imo, his positioning can be very suspect and he just cannot or will not pass the ball to players in a better position than him.

CatFromHue · 19-02-2012 06:16PM

I wonder how long it will be before Tokula realises the reason why Irish people only buy shorts when they're going away from Ireland!

He's an interesting signing as I think he's playing for a contract so should be keen to get stuck in.

danthefan · 19-02-2012 06:27PM

The other issue is that having a guy who plays wing and only wing on the bench is lunacy. Zebo would have to either start or he doesn't make the 22.

phog · 19-02-2012 06:30PM

Teferi wrote: »

I think it was sufficient reply for your inevitable blind defence of all things Munster.

Not all things Munster at all, just correcting an error in your post.

phog · 19-02-2012 06:32PM

danthefan wrote: »

The other issue is that having a guy who plays wing and only wing on the bench is lunacy. Zebo would have to either start or he doesn't make the 22.

Who's talking about benching him, he'll make the first 15

Hagz · 19-02-2012 06:35PM

phog wrote: »

Who's talking about benching him, he'll make the first 15

Ahead of who?
11. Earls
12. Downey
13. Laulala
14. Howlett
15. Jones

Benny Cake · 19-02-2012 06:39PM

Hagz wrote: »

Ahead of who?
11. Earls
12. Downey
13. Laulala
14. Howlett
15. Jones

I'm not convinced Dougie will be back next year.

irishbucsfan · 19-02-2012 06:41PM

I wouldn't be surprised to see Howlett back next year, now would I be surprised to see Earls, Murphy and Howlett all ahead of Zebo until he develops into a better all round player.

Amazotheamazing · 19-02-2012 06:42PM

Hagz wrote: »

Ahead of who?
11. Earls
12. Downey
13. Laulala
14. Howlett
15. Jones

Who knows what the future brings? Munster have enough depth to start serious squad rotation in the backs.

Teferi · 19-02-2012 07:04PM

phog wrote: »

All those mentioned by Amazo have probably played against Treviso so they should have score a rake of tries as well also Zebo's tries weren't all agaist Treviso.

phog wrote: »

Not all things Munster at all, just correcting an error in your post.

There was no mistake and you pointed out the bloody obvious which was pretty laughable (which I have bolded).

Apart from that, Zebo scored those tries against an under strength Treviso which would help to make him look good. I also praised him if you want to go back and read what I wrote.

irishbucsfan · 19-02-2012 07:14PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Who knows what the future brings? Munster have enough depth to start serious squad rotation in the backs.

I have to agree. If Munster rotated with their current backs depth, the results would be pretty serious.

phog · 19-02-2012 07:36PM

Teferi wrote: »

There was no mistake and you pointed out the bloody obvious which was pretty laughable (which I have bolded).

Apart from that, Zebo scored those tries against an under strength Treviso which would help to make him look good. I also praised him if you want to go back and read what I wrote.

You dissed his efforts against Treviso but fail to take that into account for the others that Amazo listed. His highest try count in one game was in a H/C game away to Northampton.

Amazotheamazing · 19-02-2012 07:36PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I have to agree. If Munster rotated with their current backs depth, the results would be pretty serious.

I was referring to next season. Like I said, the future is unknown but if guys like Hanrahan come through we should be better.

This year i think it's really about getting guys like Murray, Barnes and Zebo into the team consistently. Our backs seem to be improving week on week but we're still quite far off being decent.

It'll be interesting to see who starts at 10 next weekend. Keatley was injured this weekend, could be a good chance for Deasy or Cusack. Cusack is the better kicker but Deasy is probably the more rounded player, if Keatley is out.

boynesider · 19-02-2012 07:38PM

Zebo has incredible talent and potential but he is still clearly a bit headless. Give him time though. This is still only his first real year of top level rugby

However if he were to be brought into the Ireland set up sooner rather than later along with someone like D Kearney or Madigan I would have no objections. Wales are picking young lads on little more than Pro12 form and they are doing alright and they Irish squad needs some serious freshening up IMO

totallegend · 19-02-2012 07:47PM

phog wrote: »

Of course you can look it at it loads of ways but if he's ever to play for Ireland he will get lots more prep time in the senior setup than what he gets when playing for the Woulfhounds.

My point about Zebo letting himself down for the Wolfhounds was more in relation to his brainfart on his own try line in the second half and his butchering of a try in the first half, not sure how either instance was affected by lack of time together.

But read my initial post, I'm not criticising him, in fact I'm very positive and optimistic about him, but D Kearney is the more complete player at this stage.

phog · 19-02-2012 07:56PM

totallegend wrote: »

My point about Zebo letting himself down for the Wolfhounds was more in relation to his brainfart on his own try line in the second half and his butchering of a try in the first half, not sure how either instance was affected by lack of time together.

But read my initial post, I'm not criticising him, in fact I'm very positive and optimistic about him, but D Kearney is the more complete player at this stage.

I would tend to agree with you about Kearney being ahead of him but my take on your post was you were basing that on the Woulfhounds game alone and that was the reason for my reply.

donfers · 19-02-2012 09:34PM

Our backs are grand, i've no concerns on that front with regard to the playing staff but maybe a top-class backs coach might be a good idea to bring the best out of them

but with the new signings in the centres we'll wait and see how they get on, ideally I'd like two more signings - a back rower and a loose head prop and if TOL leaves then maybe a scrum-half

any ideas on if we'll get a top-class back rower and loose-head prop? any speculation there? I know Rhys Ruddock decided to stay with Leinster after we were in for him so we must be looking on that front......on the Bowe thing, he's a good player but do we really need him with Jones back fit and Zebo coming through, we already have good reserves Hurley and Murphy and Hanrahan and O'Dea are good prospects - I'd prefer to spend the money that would have been invested in Bowe elsewhere

so basically

- how many more signings do you think we'll make?

- where do you think we most urgently need reinforcements?

and.....

- who would you like us to get/who do you think we'll get???

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