Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Hagz · 18-02-2012 05:28PM

Anyone watch the Doncaster v Rotherham game today?? Quinn-McDonagh was impressive, Barnes said he has a bright future though that may be a little OTT. He certainly plays with confidence.

bleg · 18-02-2012 05:37PM

I hope o Leary stays.

profitius · 18-02-2012 06:22PM

Hagz wrote: »

Anyone watch the Doncaster v Rotherham game today?? Quinn-McDonagh was impressive, Barnes said he has a bright future though that may be a little OTT. He certainly plays with confidence.

I saw the second half. He looks a tidy player alright.

Doncaster had a good chance to kick for goal with about 5 min to go but turned it down and Rotherham scored with the last kick of the game.

.ak · 19-02-2012 12:20AM

profitius wrote: »

Murray is in a different class to TOL. He needs to speed up getting the ball from the ruck sometimes but hopefully a new backs coach will sort that out next season.

This. IMO that's all Murray needs to do become an international class SH. So close, but yet so far...

Amazotheamazing · 19-02-2012 04:17AM

Will Zebo be rewarded by Kidney? He's one of the form Irish wingers at the minute.

Bowe has 5 tries in 13 games for the Ospreys this season.
Trimble has 6 tries in 11 games for Ulster
Fitz has 4 tries in 13 games for Leinster
Gilroy has 5 tries in 19 games for Ulster
D. Kearney has 2 tries in 14 games for Leinster
Zebo has 8 tries in 14 games for Munster

I wouldn't expect him to be starting ahead of established guys like Trimble or Bowe, but you'd hope he's still fighting it out with D. Kearney and Fitz for the sub spot.

Podge_irl · 19-02-2012 04:34AM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Will Zebo be rewarded by Kidney? He's one of the form Irish wingers at the minute.

Bowe has 5 tries in 13 games for the Ospreys this season.
Trimble has 6 tries in 11 games for Ulster
Fitz has 4 tries in 13 games for Leinster
Gilroy has 5 tries in 19 games for Ulster
D. Kearney has 2 tries in 14 games for Leinster
Zebo has 8 tries in 14 games for Munster

I wouldn't expect him to be starting ahead of established guys like Trimble or Bowe, but you'd hope he's still fighting it out with D. Kearney and Fitz for the sub spot.

I like Zebo, but you have to admit that he has a lot of flaws still in his game. A winger's try scoring ratio is not everything. His defense is not fantastic and his distribution is non-existent. He's great getting the last pass with 20 metres to go but you need more at international level.

That said, I'm surprised at Kearney's poor ratio. He looks electric any time he has played for Leinster. He'd want to get over the line more (the only benefit for him is that Leinster as a team don't concentrate their scores in the wings the same way other teams do).

I still think Gilroy deserves a spot ahead of all those except Bowe and Trimble. He has had his breakout like Zebo but has expanded on his game and is good all round now. I'd must prefer him coming on with ten minutes to go in a 6N game then either Zebo or Kearney.

Teferi · 19-02-2012 04:38AM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Will Zebo be rewarded by Kidney? He's one of the form Irish wingers at the minute.

Bowe has 5 tries in 13 games for the Ospreys this season.
Trimble has 6 tries in 11 games for Ulster
Fitz has 4 tries in 13 games for Leinster
Gilroy has 5 tries in 19 games for Ulster
D. Kearney has 2 tries in 14 games for Leinster
Zebo has 8 tries in 14 games for Munster

I wouldn't expect him to be starting ahead of established guys like Trimble or Bowe, but you'd hope he's still fighting it out with D. Kearney and Fitz for the sub spot.

While Zebo going forward is great and he has a nose for the line I've felt that he still lacks that something in defence he needs to move forward in his game, something that Kearney (for instance) has worked on. Fitz is still absolute class, he just needs to avoid injury for a while and he'll be challenging for a place in the starting 15. In any case Zebo scoring a rake of tries against that Treviso team is like me scoring tries against an under-7's team.

Amazotheamazing · 19-02-2012 05:18AM

Podge_irl wrote: »

I like Zebo, but you have to admit that he has a lot of flaws still in his game. A winger's try scoring ratio is not everything. His defense is not fantastic and his distribution is non-existent. He's great getting the last pass with 20 metres to go but you need more at international level.

That said, I'm surprised at Kearney's poor ratio. He looks electric any time he has played for Leinster. He'd want to get over the line more (the only benefit for him is that Leinster as a team don't concentrate their scores in the wings the same way other teams do).

I still think Gilroy deserves a spot ahead of all those except Bowe and Trimble. He has had his breakout like Zebo but has expanded on his game and is good all round now. I'd must prefer him coming on with ten minutes to go in a 6N game then either Zebo or Kearney.

I'm not for a second suggesting Zebo is the complete player. There's loads of improvement still to come from him, but he's a tryscorer and Ireland are struggling to score tries. He's more than just a "last pass" player though, he's not afraid to go through traffic if needs be. His defense is improving, hard to know what it's real standard as is as I've yet to see him really targeted (I expect Ulster will). His distribution is well below the other options.

Like I said, I wouldn't have him starting ahead of Trimble or Bowe.

Amazotheamazing · 19-02-2012 05:20AM

Teferi wrote: »

While Zebo going forward is great and he has a nose for the line I've felt that he still lacks that something in defence he needs to move forward in his game, something that Kearney (for instance) has worked on. Fitz is still absolute class, he just needs to avoid injury for a while and he'll be challenging for a place in the starting 15. In any case Zebo scoring a rake of tries against that Treviso team is like me scoring tries against an under-7's team.

Fitz has never really been a tryscorer for Ireland, ideally he'd move in to 13 for Leinster and Ireland and be a creative pivot for us. He has the skills for it. He'd have been my starting 13 in BOD's absence.

GerM · 19-02-2012 09:36AM

Podge_irl wrote: »

That said, I'm surprised at Kearney's poor ratio. He looks electric any time he has played for Leinster. He'd want to get over the line more (the only benefit for him is that Leinster as a team don't concentrate their scores in the wings the same way other teams do).

You have to take into account who Kearney has been sharing a pitch with. As nice a passer as Madigan is, Sexton is still better for structuring an attack and creating for his wingers with cross field kicks, loops and popping up throughout the back line. He has also had a number of appearances with McFadden in the centre who doesn't utilise his wingers too much. McFadden has 11 appearances in the centre this season. Wingers have only scored in 2 of them, Fitz's double against Bath and Carr against the Ulster youth team

phog · 19-02-2012 10:58AM

Teferi wrote: »

While Zebo going forward is great and he has a nose for the line I've felt that he still lacks that something in defence he needs to move forward in his game, something that Kearney (for instance) has worked on. Fitz is still absolute class, he just needs to avoid injury for a while and he'll be challenging for a place in the starting 15. In any case Zebo scoring a rake of tries against that Treviso team is like me scoring tries against an under-7's team.

All those mentioned by Amazo have probably played against Treviso so they should have score a rake of tries as well also Zebo's tries weren't all agaist Treviso.

jm08 · 19-02-2012 11:14AM

Podge_irl wrote: »

I like Zebo, but you have to admit that he has a lot of flaws still in his game. A winger's try scoring ratio is not everything. His defense is not fantastic and his distribution is non-existent. He's great getting the last pass with 20 metres to go but you need more at international level.

That said, I'm surprised at Kearney's poor ratio. He looks electric any time he has played for Leinster. He'd want to get over the line more (the only benefit for him is that Leinster as a team don't concentrate their scores in the wings the same way other teams do).

I still think Gilroy deserves a spot ahead of all those except Bowe and Trimble. He has had his breakout like Zebo but has expanded on his game and is good all round now. I'd must prefer him coming on with ten minutes to go in a 6N game then either Zebo or Kearney.

zebo started the move for his first try against Treviso then offloaded to Barnes who passed back for zebo to score. he is also very good at reclaiming kick-offs - could be our next shane horgan for that.

Players like zebo and earls get an awful lot of undeserved criticism for their distribution as chances are that they have a better chance of scoring than who they would be distributing to so they are making the right decisions.

Benny Cake · 19-02-2012 11:22AM

GerM wrote: »

You have to take into account who Kearney has been sharing a pitch with. As nice a passer as Madigan is, Sexton is still better for structuring an attack and creating for his wingers with cross field kicks, loops and popping up throughout the back line. He has also had a number of appearances with McFadden in the centre who doesn't utilise his wingers too much. McFadden has 11 appearances in the centre this season. Wingers have only scored in 2 of them, Fitz's double against Bath and Carr against the Ulster youth team

Well, Zebo has been playing outside the much malligned Earls for much of the season & Munsters midfield play in general has been poor. Does that makes Zebos try scoring even more impressive with that in mind??
He's had a great season to date & deserves credit, sure he's not the finished article, but its his first season of regular first 15 rugby & he will continue to improve.

CatFromHue · 19-02-2012 11:28AM

Zebo has in a way been rewarded for his form by Kidney. He started for the A team against England. Just from looking at the teamsheets from yesterday it's interesting to note that it was Murphy who came off for Jones.

GerM · 19-02-2012 11:35AM

Benny Cake wrote: »

Well, Zebo has been playing outside the much malligned Earls for much of the season & Munsters midfield play in general has been poor. Does that makes Zebos try scoring even more impressive with that in mind??
He's had a great season to date & deserves credit, sure he's not the finished article, but its his first season of regular first 15 rugby & he will continue to improve.

I was responding to a point solely on Kearney when someone stated their surprise in relation to him. It wasn't in relation to Zebo at all.

bamboozle · 19-02-2012 11:35AM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Will Zebo be rewarded by Kidney? He's one of the form Irish wingers at the minute.

Bowe has 5 tries in 13 games for the Ospreys this season.
Trimble has 6 tries in 11 games for Ulster
Fitz has 4 tries in 13 games for Leinster
Gilroy has 5 tries in 19 games for Ulster
D. Kearney has 2 tries in 14 games for Leinster
Zebo has 8 tries in 14 games for Munster

I wouldn't expect him to be starting ahead of established guys like Trimble or Bowe, but you'd hope he's still fighting it out with D. Kearney and Fitz for the sub spot.

i trust you didnt watch the wolfhounds game against england saxons, Zebo has lots of talent, big boot and he roams the field well looking for work...the top two inches i'd be worried about though.

bamboozle · 19-02-2012 11:37AM

Hagz wrote: »

Anyone watch the Doncaster v Rotherham game today?? Quinn-McDonagh was impressive, Barnes said he has a bright future though that may be a little OTT. He certainly plays with confidence.

how did Michael Keating and Robin Copeland do? Both players could do a job at Connacht. Think Shane Monaghan also plays for Rotherham.

totallegend · 19-02-2012 11:46AM

bamboozle wrote: »

i trust you didnt watch the wolfhounds game against england saxons, Zebo has lots of talent, big boot and he roams the field well looking for work...the top two inches i'd be worried about though.

That Wolfhounds game summed up why D Kearney is ahead of Zebo at the moment, but Zebo is starting from further back in terms of senior game time and he's making up ground, fast. Just needs to know when to back himself and when to get rid of the ball and he'll improve no end. Luckily, that's something that can be learned/coached, whereas raw pace and attacking instinct cannot, so he's not too badly off.

Both D Kearney and Zebo are still a long way short of the quality offered by a fully fit Luke Fitzgerald though.

Question; is it a done deal that Howlett is leaving/retiring at the end of the season, and if he stays, will Munster's backline not be Jones/Howlett/Laulala/Downey/Earls, i.e. no room for Zebo?

PhatPiggins · 19-02-2012 12:03PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Will Zebo be rewarded by Kidney? He's one of the form Irish wingers at the minute.

Bowe has 5 tries in 13 games for the Ospreys this season.
Trimble has 6 tries in 11 games for Ulster
Fitz has 4 tries in 13 games for Leinster
Gilroy has 5 tries in 19 games for Ulster
D. Kearney has 2 tries in 14 games for Leinster
Zebo has 8 tries in 14 games for Munster

I wouldn't expect him to be starting ahead of established guys like Trimble or Bowe, but you'd hope he's still fighting it out with D. Kearney and Fitz for the sub spot.

Is it not 9 tries, 6 in the Pro 12 and 3 in the HC

PhatPiggins · 19-02-2012 12:05PM

bamboozle wrote: »

i trust you didnt watch the wolfhounds game against england saxons, Zebo has lots of talent, big boot and he roams the field well looking for work...the top two inches i'd be worried about though.

A wingers primary purpose is surely to score tries, if he can't do that then surely it doesn't matter how good (smart) he is in the other aspects of his game.

jm08 · 19-02-2012 12:07PM

totallegend wrote: »

That Wolfhounds game summed up why D Kearney is ahead of Zebo at the moment, but Zebo is starting from further back in terms of senior game time and he's making up ground, fast. Just needs to know when to back himself and when to get rid of the ball and he'll improve no end. Luckily, that's something that can be learned/coached, whereas raw pace and attacking instinct cannot, so he's not too badly off.

Both D Kearney and Zebo are still a long way short of the quality offered by a fully fit Luke Fitzgerald though.

Question; is it a done deal that Howlett is leaving/retiring at the end of the season, and if he stays, will Munster's backline not be Jones/Howlett/Laulala/Downey/Earls, i.e. no room for Zebo?

kearney was the only standout player in that game. some players who are doing well for their province were very poor that night . might have a lot to do with the team only came together the week before .

howlett will be 34 next season so even if he stays he will be winding down a bit id imagine. think laulala/downe are caretaking for the emergence of hanrahan to play with earls in the centre i'd say that would mean that munster could end up with 9 murray , 10 keatley, 11 zebo, 12 hanrahan, 13 earls , 14 hurley/murphy, 15 jones/hurley. O'dea looks like a good prosect in a year or time will tell.

profitius · 19-02-2012 12:16PM

Zebo is a very good finisher but he has to improve other aspects of his game. Yesterday he kicked the ball out on the full because of not paying attention, failed to pass when in a good position and got a stupid yellow card which resulted in 7pts against Munster. You can get away with those blunders at Pro 12 level but they are crucial at international level.

I've been very impressed with Dave Kearney. What impresses me most is his awareness of players around him and his consistency. He makes few mistakes and is a running threat too. I'd have him over Fitz because he is more consistent.

One Munster player who has also impressed me this season is Luke O'Dea. 2 tries in 3 games and he created a few tries too.

jacothelad · 19-02-2012 12:24PM

PhatPiggins wrote: »

I'm a big Murray fan but he's been very hit and miss for Munster this season. Bar that game you mention, O'Leary has come on for him in every game and things on the pitch have improved with TOL's intro :eek:

In particular O'Leary was getting to rucks and passing the ball out much faster then Murray which improved our back play no end.

I would tend to agree that Murray hasn't looked like an international 9 because of his slowness in decision making and the ruck issue.

Podge_irl wrote: »

I like Zebo, but you have to admit that he has a lot of flaws still in his game. A winger's try scoring ratio is not everything. His defense is not fantastic and his distribution is non-existent. He's great getting the last pass with 20 metres to go but you need more at international level.

That said, I'm surprised at Kearney's poor ratio. He looks electric any time he has played for Leinster. He'd want to get over the line more (the only benefit for him is that Leinster as a team don't concentrate their scores in the wings the same way other teams do).

I still think Gilroy deserves a spot ahead of all those except Bowe and Trimble. He has had his breakout like Zebo but has expanded on his game and is good all round now. I'd must prefer him coming on with ten minutes to go in a 6N game then either Zebo or Kearney.

Much as I would love to agree with you as an Ulster fan, Gilroy is not playing well this season. There was a lot of instant hype last year when he came on and scored two pretty simple tries on his debut and ended up scoring something like 8 tries in 13 games. He doesn't have Zebo's top end speed. He is a decent player but I would think Simon will go much further. In the game on Friday night he was given the ball with a clear run to the line. For some reason only known to himself he checked his run allowing James to catch him. Zebo would have scored.

Gilroy is good at taking high balls and has a good boot, tackles well etc so he is good enough for the Pro12 and has done o.k. in the Heineken Cup. I really can't envisage a multi cap International career. I can with Zebo.

Hype710 · 19-02-2012 12:54PM

Gilroy getting tap tackled by a prop in the game against Clermont still lingers in the memory. Still a good young player but is rightly behind Zebo, Kearney and O' Halloran IMO.

totallegend · 19-02-2012 12:55PM

jm08 wrote: »

kearney was the only standout player in that game. some players who are doing well for their province were very poor that night . might have a lot to do with the team only came together the week before .

howlett will be 34 next season so even if he stays he will be winding down a bit id imagine. think laulala/downe are caretaking for the emergence of hanrahan to play with earls in the centre i'd say that would mean that munster could end up with 9 murray , 10 keatley, 11 zebo, 12 hanrahan, 13 earls , 14 hurley/murphy, 15 jones/hurley. O'dea looks like a good prosect in a year or time will tell.

Whatever about Downey/Hanrahan, Laulala is no caretaker, he's one of the best 13s in Europe and is exactly what Munster have been missing the last few years. Howlett was playing his best rugby in ages up until his injury so if he does come back (contract expires this season afaik), he could still be a great option.

Hagz · 19-02-2012 01:07PM

bamboozle wrote: »

how did Michael Keating and Robin Copeland do? Both players could do a job at Connacht. Think Shane Monaghan also plays for Rotherham.

Keating didn't get to show anything really, as Doncaster were really error strewn when attacking with the ball, however a few times he came in off his wing looking for work and he came close to scoring a try.

Copeland was great, obviously the standard of the championship isn't that high, but Copeland was bossing people physically with ball in hand.

Shane Monahan was playing on the wing and scored two tries, but all he had to do was gather a pass for both of those tries. Still, he was decent and looks like a big guy.

EDIT: Shane Cahill was playing at LH. Feisty guy with a temper (Sent off for decking a guy), but he was pretty dominant in the scrum for large parts.

Teferi · 19-02-2012 01:13PM

phog wrote: »

All those mentioned by Amazo have probably played against Treviso so they should have score a rake of tries as well also Zebo's tries weren't all agaist Treviso.

:rolleyes:

jimbomalley · 19-02-2012 01:14PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Fitz has never really been a tryscorer for Ireland, ideally he'd move in to 13 for Leinster and Ireland and be a creative pivot for us. He has the skills for it. He'd have been my starting 13 in BOD's absence.

agree...we have a few good and up and coming wingers in ireland, need to start examining who cuts it at 12 and 13...although i always saw fitzy as a 12, he does have the skill set and rugby brain to play 13

jm08 · 19-02-2012 01:17PM

totallegend wrote: »

Whatever about Downey/Hanrahan, Laulala is no caretaker, he's one of the best 13s in Europe and is exactly what Munster have been missing the last few years. Howlett was playing his best rugby in ages up until his injury so if he does come back (contract expires this season afaik), he could still be a great option.

Laulala is with munster for 2 years and munster won't be able to sign a NIQ centre then . Munster will have 4 centres (laulala, earls, barnes, Downey) which will mean they should all get a fair bit of gametime when you would expect the odd injury as well.

Howlett is coming back from a serious injury - i read an interview with john Hayes where he said himself and howlett were feeling their age at training even before his injury so it would be hardly surprising if howlett retired from playing at the end of next season when he is 35 - not long for zebo to wait - gives him plenty of time to develop without being expected to be a doug howlett overnight.

jimbomalley · 19-02-2012 01:17PM

jm08 wrote: »

zebo started the move for his first try against Treviso then offloaded to Barnes who passed back for zebo to score. he is also very good at reclaiming kick-offs - could be our next shane horgan for that.

Players like zebo and earls get an awful lot of undeserved criticism for their distribution as chances are that they have a better chance of scoring than who they would be distributing to so they are making the right decisions.

think zebo could turn out to be a cracker for munster and ireland...so much talent and pace at his disposal. just needs a good backs coach to get the rugby brain working

Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

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