Ireland wastes 70 million on barbarisim

steddyeddy · 17-02-2012 10:46PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Glad you are clear on that. The 70 million is not spent on killing badgers. The TB eradication scheme involves cattle testing, vets fees, blood samples, compensation for farmers for destroyed "reactors" etc. The portion of this money devoted to killing badgers would be tiny.
Will you fix your inaccurate and misleading Thread title now?

A staff of seventy five? The cost of this would be tiny? Badger culling is in no way cheap.

steddyeddy · 17-02-2012 10:49PM

hooradiation wrote: »

Most are, after all it's wildly inefficient to let them starve if nothing else.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that some are missed, but badgers are creatures of habit , it's how you know where to lay the snares - they follow the same path from the set so it's quite worn, so once you know that laying the snare is trivial so unless you forget where you put it there's not much call for losing it. Also, why run the risk of the badger uprooting the snare?

Then you shoot them in the body from a distance, because they will fucking murder you if you get close.

Yeah, the young ones will starve if there are any (which is why culls are kept to out of breeding season if possible, which is now btw) but if you'd like to root around in a set that may contain another adult badger, be my guest.

Good points all well made but the point of this thread is that culling does not need to be done at all.

Indubitable · 17-02-2012 10:53PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

steddyeddy wrote: »

A staff of seventy five? The cost of this would be tiny? Badger culling is in no way cheap.

I still don't see how a staff of 75 people requires a large portion of the 70 million.

steddyeddy · 17-02-2012 10:59PM

Indubitable wrote: »

I still don't see how a staff of 75 people requires a large portion of the 70 million.

The cost of the badger cull in the uk is expected to reach 92 million. Its not just laying traps a lot of planning surveying and co-ordination are required. My point is ten euro spent on this would be a waste of money!

SafeSurfer · 17-02-2012 11:15PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

A staff of seventy five? The cost of this would be tiny? Badger culling is in no way cheap.

Just to point out a further inaccuracy in your opening post, taxpayers do not fund this, it is funded through a statuary levy on milk sales and cattle slaughtered or exported.

mconigol · 17-02-2012 11:22PM

Deer are probably much worse for spreading disease than badgers...

SafeSurfer · 17-02-2012 11:25PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

The cost of the badger cull in the uk is expected to reach 92 million. Its not just laying traps a lot of planning surveying and co-ordination are required. My point is ten euro spent on this would be a waste of money!

The UK cull estimates 23,000 to 35,000 will be killed annually. The same report estimates 50,000 are killed on the roads annually.

Why don't you direct your ire against motor vehicles?

steddyeddy · 17-02-2012 11:29PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Just to point out a further inaccuracy in your opening post, taxpayers do not fund this, it is funded through a statuary levy on milk sales and cattle slaughtered or exported.

Certainly some of it as in the uk but the taxpayer pay for a substantial amount and everybody who buys milk is paying for this complete waste of money. Have you got a link to say what proportion of this is being paid for by the levey?

steddyeddy · 17-02-2012 11:30PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The UK cull estimates 23,000 to 35,000 will be killed annually. The same report estimates 50,000 are killed on the roads annually.

Why don't you direct your ire against motor vehicles?

Because theres not an organised badger cull using motor vehicles.

Kess73 · 17-02-2012 11:47PM

It is almost laughable that such effort goes into the culling of badgers due to the potential threat of bovine TB, when there are a hell of a lot of other animals in Ireland that can carry the disease just as easily with many of them being far greater in number than the badger.

Any of the native Mustelids (of which the badger is one) can carry it, Rodents (which the badger is not) can carry it, foxes can carry it, domestic cats can carry it, deer can carry it, and so on.

What is very wrong is that all the culled badgers are not actually checked to see if they had been carrying the disease, so there would be a high probablility that a large number of killed badgers did not have it at all.

Then again this is Ireland, a country that has a pretty poor track record with it's own native species. Re-introduced species like the Red Kite and the White Tailed Sea eagle get poisoned on a regular basis and have idiots trying to claim that they are dangerous species. The Irish way seems to be one of just kill things, usually by some pretty brutal method, rather than to actually try to get information on the animal first.

steddyeddy · 17-02-2012 11:49PM

Kess73 wrote: »

It is almost laughable that such effort goes into the culling of badgers due to the potential threat of bovine TB, when there are a hell of a lot of other animals in Ireland that can carry the disease just as easily with many of them being far greater in number than the badger.

Any of the native Mustelids (of which the badger is one) can carry it, Rodents (which the badger is not) can carry it, foxes can carry it, domestic cats can carry it, deer can carry it, and so on.

What is very wrong is that all the culled badgers are not actually checked to see if they had been carrying the disease, so there would be a high probablility that a large number of killed badgers did not have it at all.

Then again this is Ireland, a country that has a pretty poor track record with it's own native species. Re-introduced species like the Red Kite and the White Tailed Sea eagle get poisoned on a regular basis and have idiots trying to claim that they are dangerous species. The Irish way seems to be one of just kill things, usually by some pretty brutal method, rather than to actually try to get information on the animal first.

Thanks Kess and that post is why your the mod of the nature forum. Very well said indeed! Ireland has indeed a very poor record with native species as you say. A lot of the justification is that a particular animal ireland takes a dislike to is classified as vermin which isnt a scientific term.

steddyeddy · 17-02-2012 11:52PM

mconigol wrote: »

Deer are probably much worse for spreading disease than badgers...

As Kess said theres lots of animals worse than badgers for spreading disease. Ill bet we have zero idea how many badgers actually carry tb aswell.

laugh · 17-02-2012 11:57PM

44leto wrote: »

Otherwise there wouldn't be a tree left in Dublin mountains.

The Dublin mountains exist only in the imagination of Dublin people.

Foghladh · 17-02-2012 11:58PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Yet you could get six months from the government if you went out baiting them with dogs.

Why would you bait them with a dog? Surely a short length of 2 be 4 would be just as handy. Has to be a lot easier than swinging a dog by its tail?

steddyeddy · 17-02-2012 11:58PM

laugh wrote: »

The Dublin mountains exist only in the imagination of Dublin people.

Ah they do exist now!

overshoot · 17-02-2012 11:58PM

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

From the article
"since 2000 the number of “reactors” – cattle that have failed the mandatory test for bovine TB – has fallen from 40,000 to 18,500.

The Minister told Independent TD Maureen O’Sullivan that in Britain, which did not cull badgers now but would begin a pilot project in the autumn, the number of reactors had increased from 6,000 in 1999 to 33,000 in 2010."

Looks like it works to me, so good in fact that it is being introduced in Britain.

steddyeddy wrote: »

The cost of the badger cull in the uk is expected to reach 92 million. Its not just laying traps a lot of planning surveying and co-ordination are required. My point is ten euro spent on this would be a waste of money!

right so lets get this right, doing this is a waste of money yet in means we have 22,500 extra cows to sell per year, not to mention not having to dispose of?
i think you(maybe it was someone else) mentioned golden eagles earlier too... seen as they were reintroduced in donegal i think this is appropriate, mink are also been targeted there where a few thousand were released from a farm by tree huggers. these are pillaging the environment, sheep, dogs to name bigger things are been killed but also the many of the eagles main food sources.
oh one more thing they (badgers) are seriously vicious things which is also why they are such a threat even though other animals carry disease. they are far more likely to attack anything and have no problems going after humans either...easily one of the worst things you will come across (if you leave dublin;))

Dr. Manhattan · 17-02-2012 11:58PM

laugh wrote: »

The Dublin mountains exist only in the imagination of Dublin people.

You're saying there are no mountains in the county of Dublin? Right, thanks for that.

laugh · 18-02-2012 12:02AM

Dr. Manhattan wrote: »

You're saying there are no mountains in the county of Dublin? Right, thanks for that.

Part of the mountain range known as the Wicklow mountains stretches into counties Carlow, Wexford and Dublin, only in Dublin do they change name.

Dr. Manhattan · 18-02-2012 12:14AM

laugh wrote: »

Part of the mountain range known as the Wicklow mountains stretches into counties Carlow, Wexford and Dublin, only in Dublin do they change name.

The parts that extend into Dublin are a reasonably distinct group, well deserving of a distinct name. The lack of local naming in other areas is presumably due to the fact that those hills are not as distinct as groups.

galwayrush · 18-02-2012 12:23AM

Lars1916 wrote: »

What's the natural enemy of the badger? Apart from us humans?

Zombie badgers.

steddyeddy · 18-02-2012 12:26AM

overshoot wrote: »

right so lets get this right, doing this is a waste of money yet in means we have 22,500 extra cows to sell per year, not to mention not having to dispose of?

We have twice the level of tb as Britian which stopped practising culls previously. Scotland doesnt practice culls yet they have nearly eradicated bovine tb. From the BBC website:

"If you've eradicated virtually all your badgers and you've still got twice the level of bovine TB in your national herd than you have in Britain, where we're not slaughtering our badgers, then clearly Ireland has got it wrong," Trevor Lawson told the BBC News website.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6653691.stm

i think you(maybe it was someone else) mentioned golden eagles earlier too... seen as they were reintroduced in donegal i think this is appropriate, mink are also been targeted there where a few thousand were released from a farm by tree huggers. these are pillaging the environment, sheep, dogs to name bigger things are been killed but also the many of the eagles main food sources.

Makes no difference anyway because Irelands attitude to native wildlife ensure that the eagel will be poisoned anyway! I dont agree with people releasing mink by the way I hope you dont think im affiliated with the group who did that.

oh one more thing they (badgers) are seriously vicious things which is also why they are such a threat even though other animals carry disease. they are far more likely to attack anything and have no problems going after humans either...easily one of the worst things you will come across (if you leave dublin;))

Why do Irish people see every furry creature as a threat that needs to be exterminated? Seriously Irish animals arent that scary when you get down to it. Try going to dublin zoo's petting zoo and see for yourself!

Oh by the way here is a scientific paper which shows that badger culling in britian increased the number of infected cattle!

http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/682

hooradiation · 18-02-2012 12:27AM

galwayrush wrote: »

Zombie badgers.

Killer Badgers!

dirtyden · 18-02-2012 12:34AM

Bambi wrote: »

How about we start culling farmers? They've been spreading fianna failism for decades.

Most farmers are Fine Gael actually

steddyeddy · 18-02-2012 12:36AM

hooradiation wrote: »

Killer Badgers!

Pound for pound the honey badgers is the most agressive animal in the world! Count yourself lucky we dont have a mustelid like the wolverine!!

skregs · 18-02-2012 12:38AM

There was no fooking TB until we started letting the blacks in

steddyeddy · 18-02-2012 12:38AM

dirtyden wrote: »

Most farmers are Fine Gael actually

By the way my thread is not aimed at farmers in general in fact I think this will cost the farmers a lot of wasted money if this goes ahead!

overshoot · 18-02-2012 12:43AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Why do Irish people see every furry creature as a threat that needs to be exterminated? Seriously Irish animals arent that scary when you get down to it. Try going to dublin zoo's petting zoo and see for yourself!

Oh by the way here is a scientific paper which shows that badger culling in britian increased the number of infected cattle!

http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/682

i dont have a problem with irish animals, i particularly enjoy it when i see mice as its a good indicator that there arent rats around:pac:

seriously though, leave the hand fed, vaccinated animals in the zoo out of it and try seeing a wild badger! iv seen what they do to other animals, and iv heard enough stories of them attacking people. they are far less likely to run like from people as other animals like foxes and that is what makes them particularly dodgey. definately not an amimal id like to stumble across. il take a cuddly fox anyday!

also cant help noticing the dates of the anti culling papers you source, 2003 for the one above, bbc link 07 (did i see you reference a 2006 also?), yet in 2010 the tb levels in the uk have risen 550% from 99 and they are about to run their own cull.....as almighy cushion took out of your own article

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

From the article
"since 2000 the number of “reactors” – cattle that have failed the mandatory test for bovine TB – has fallen from 40,000 to 18,500.

The Minister told Independent TD Maureen O’Sullivan that in Britain, which did not cull badgers now but would begin a pilot project in the autumn, the number of reactors had increased from 6,000 in 1999 to 33,000 in 2010."

Looks like it works to me, so good in fact that it is being introduced in Britain.

Min · 18-02-2012 12:48AM

We had a TB problem in my area.

At the same time there were badgers dying in fields and on the roads, 4 badgers in 2 years died and likely from TB.

The department of Agriculture came out and culled the number of badgers in the area. There are still badgers around but the TB problem that was in the area has cleared up.

Tb in cattle is a costly disease for the taxpayers and it pays to tackle the source of the problem, as the department will look for the source of the disease, in my area it was the badger.

When cattle fail a TB test, the farmer is prevented from selling his cattle on a mart, the department has to pay for the retests until the herd goes clear.
The department has to pay the farmer compensation for the animal that failed the TB test.
If it is winter time, the department pays the farmer an allowance to feed the extra animals - since he/she can't sell cattle on the open market.
If the farmer is restricted for a long time, the department then pays a monthly allowance based on the number of cattle that had to be destroyed.

If the badger is found to be the source of TB in the area, it pays to cull or vaccinate.
Given the number of badgers in my area, a cull was no harm.

Where To · 18-02-2012 12:48AM

Ummm dunno if anyone has mentioned this but the vaccination of cattle against TB is illegal under European Law;

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31978L0052:EN:HTML

They aren't vaccinating cattle anywhere, they are vaccinating badgers but still at the testing stage.

http://www.bovinetb.info/vaccination.php

http://www.tbfreeengland.co.uk/FAQs/Questions/Why-don%E2%80%99t-we-vaccinate-cattle-/

syklops · 18-02-2012 12:54AM

Lars1916 wrote: »

What's the natural enemy of the badger? Apart from us humans?

AFAIK, the bear and the wolf are, but both are now extinct, in Ireland at least, cause of the other natural predator us. Or the British

Ireland wastes 70 million on barbarisim

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