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Palestinian hunger striker - 61 days, detained without charge, near death

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Comments

  • #62
    Kirby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    What part of my post do you disagree with? Was he not a member of a terrorist organisation?


  • #63
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Kirby wrote: »
    What part of my post do you disagree with? Was he not a member of a terrorist organisation?

    He acted as their spokesman in the past. He is not charged with anything, however, nor was he told why he was being held.


  • #64
    Kirby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    And therefore I re-iterate the question. Is the moral outrage directed at the internment of an "innocent" man or the fact that internment happens at all? If he was a known terrorist as opposed to an unknown one......would anyone care about the morals of locking him up without trial?

    Do we really have the right to dictate the judicial system in another country?


  • #65
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Kirby wrote: »
    And therefore I re-iterate the question. Is the moral outrage directed at the internment of an "innocent" man or the fact that internment happens at all? ?

    It's the fact that internment without trial or charge happens at all.
    Kirby wrote: »
    If he was a known terrorist as opposed to an unknown one......would anyone care?

    Do we really have the right to dictate the judicial system in another country?

    ...where that country is illegally imposing itself outside its borders, its happened a few times.


  • #66
    Kirby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    Nodin wrote: »
    illegally imposing itself outside its borders.

    I think you will find that there are countries in the west that do this to a far greater degree. Nobody sanctions them.


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  • #67
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Kirby wrote: »
    I think you will find that there are countries in the west that do this to a far greater degree. Nobody sanctions them.

    Would you care to give a few examples of this?


  • #68
    Kirby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    I wont get into a tit for tat. You know what i'm referring to.


  • #69
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Kirby wrote: »
    I wont get into a tit for tat. You know what i'm referring to.

    I genuinely have no idea what you're on about, hence the question.


  • #70
    cloptrop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭cloptrop


    So he is in a palestine jail for 61 days waiting on a court date. He is shackled to a bed?
    Id say he is shackled to the bed cause hes craaaaaaaaaaaaazy. 61 days is normal to be remanded in custody , even in Ireland.
    What did he do? Im sure he isnt completly innocent.
    He is a member of a terrorist organisation????????????/ Oh dear let him go.


  • #71
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    cloptrop wrote: »
    So he is in a palestine jail for 61 days waiting on a court date. He is shackled to a bed?
    Id say he is shackled to the bed cause hes craaaaaaaaaaaaazy. 61 days is normal to be remanded in custody , even in Ireland.
    What did he do? Im sure he isnt completly innocent.
    He is a member of a terrorist organisation????????????/ Oh dear let him go.

    Did you read the thread?


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  • #72
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    lividduck wrote: »
    Yea, the nerve of these jews expecting to be allowed to live in peace in their homeland.
    Who started the yom kippur war? NOT ISRAEL.
    Who started the 6 day war NOT ISRAEL.
    If you are that interested in human rights look to Syria, Libya,Iran.
    Last time I checked the Israelis were not publicly hanging gays!

    Care to share with us the massive ethnic cleansing of native Palestinians from the newly declared State Of Israel in 1948-49 and Israel's refusal to allow those refugees to return home ever since?

    Or Israel's joint 1956 war on Egypt along with France and Britain which is shamelessly labelled as the Suez Canal Crisis in the West?

    And you can see for yourself that Israel did in fact start the Six Day War in 1967.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

    But hey, why let facts enter into the domain. :rolleyes:


  • #73
    Seachmall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Kirby wrote: »
    If you learned he was responsible for murdering 100 people would you care that he hadn't been given a trial?

    How would we know that without a trial?


  • #74
    Ronin247
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭Ronin247


    Nodin wrote: »
    I'm not seeing the similarity.
    The presumption of innocence is removed by CAB and we have no problem with that.

    I think I would have noticed somebody saying "Why don't we treat them like the Israelis do the Palestinians" meself.
    But have you heard people complaining that criminals are treated too easy and that our justice system is too lenient??


    ...because, as a terrorist organisation, they're already under any number of limitations and penalties. You will not be seeing the Islamic Jihad entry in the Eurovision song contest any time soon. Israel deals with terrorists differently.

    Secondly, Israel - as the occupying colonising force in the OT- is the aggressor.
    The settlements in the occupied terroritories in my opinion are wrong.Bombing innocent women and children as a deliberate tactic as Islamic Jihad do is a cowardly,barbaric and abhorrent way to carry out a "war".I have no sympathy for any terrorist who behaves this way and this man, Khader Adnan, was a spokesman for these cowards.No sympathy from me



  • #75
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Ronin247 wrote: »
    The settlements in the occupied terroritories in my opinion are wrong.Bombing innocent women and children as a deliberate tactic as Islamic Jihad do is a cowardly,barbaric and abhorrent way to carry out a "war".I have no sympathy for any terrorist who behaves this way and this man, Khader Adnan, was a spokesman for these cowards.No sympathy from me


    What about the bombing of innocent women and children by the Israeli (wait for it :D ) "Defence" Forces?


  • #76
    Nulty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,843 ✭✭✭Nulty


    Kirby wrote: »
    Wasn't he a member of a terrorist group? Guilty people protest too ya know. People seem to be assuming that this lad is innocent.

    Are people outraged over the fact that he has been held without charge or the fact that he is innocent?

    If you learned he was responsible for murdering 100 people would you care that he hadn't been given a trial?

    There are no innocent people Kirby, there is a reason they call it "Not Guilty". He has not been charged or convicted of any crime and therefore he is "Not Guilty" and as a result - it is you who are assuming, not the people protesting his capture.


  • #77
    token101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,050 ✭✭✭token101


    wes wrote: »
    The Israeli's (and tbh the US and many other Western countries), don't particularly care about the lives of Palestinians. They will claim he is a terrorists or come up with some other lie to smear him, and say he deserved to die or some other excuse. He won't be released and he will sadly die, and his name will be probably be smeared with all sorts of lies.

    He acted as spokesman for the Islamic Jihad. If that's true, it's not exactly necessary to smear his name. He should be charged.

    I don't agree that the Israelis are leaving him to die. He's starving himself to highlight his cause. He hasn't been starved or denied treatment.


  • #78
    token101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,050 ✭✭✭token101


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    What about the bombing of innocent women and children by the Israeli (wait for it :D ) "Defence" Forces?

    That doesn't make Islamic Jihad right though. It's not a defence.


  • #79
    cloptrop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭cloptrop


    So some spokesman for a terrorist organisation got arrested. What do terrorist organisation spokesmen do? They argue in favour of terrorists , they drum up support for terrorism they recruit and they are a member of an illegal organisation.
    Pick your charge.
    Just because he is on hunger strike doesnt mean he should be let go. There are so many eco warriors on here that find a shred of hidden news somewhere on the jim corr website and run it like its auswitz.
    This fella is making a martyr out of himself . Simle as .
    Ram a milkshake down his throat or let him die all the same. Damn terrorists.


  • #80
    humanji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    cloptrop wrote: »
    So some spokesman for a terrorist organisation got arrested. What do terrorist organisation spokesmen do? They argue in favour of terrorists , they drum up support for terrorism they recruit and they are a member of an illegal organisation.
    Pick your charge.
    Just because he is on hunger strike doesnt mean he should be let go. There are so many eco warriors on here that find a shred of hidden news somewhere on the jim corr website and run it like its auswitz.
    This fella is making a martyr out of himself . Simle as .
    Ram a milkshake down his throat or let him die all the same. Damn terrorists.
    Just because he is associated with terrorists doesn't mean he should be held without charge for in indefinite amount of time. If there's evidence of a crime, it should be used in a trial. People shouldn't be locked up on the odd chance that they may have commited a crime.


  • #81
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Ronin247 wrote: »
    Palestinian Islamic Jihad is a Terrorist organisation who carry out deliberate targetting of civillians.

    Any proof that this man was involved in any of that? Oh wait there is none.
    Ronin247 wrote: »
    There are plenty of threads condemning Israel but not very many about the suicide bombings of innocent civilians.I am opposed to both sides atrocities.....a lot of posters seem to be opposed to one sides only.

    Considering that the man in question was not involved in violence against Israel, kind of puts a lie to what your saying. So unless you can prove he was involved in violence, than you don't have a leg to stand on. You also miss my point, that if it was the other way around, it would also be wrong, but then if it was the other way around, there would be presumption of innocence, which apparently doesn't apply to Palestinians.


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  • #82
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    token101 wrote: »
    He acted as spokesman for the Islamic Jihad. If that's true, it's not exactly necessary to smear his name.

    The smear is that people are essentially accusing him of engaging in terrorism without proof e.g. that being a spokesperson for that organisation equals him being guilty, of something, but we don't even know what that something, which shows how farcical the whole thing is, especially for those who are supporting Israel on this.


  • #83
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    token101 wrote: »
    That doesn't make Islamic Jihad right though. It's not a defence.

    The Isaraeli people have consistently endorsed their state's war on the Palestinian people. What did they expect? :confused:


  • #84
    RiseToTheTop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭RiseToTheTop


    Too many Jews in high places in the US for anything to be done.

    What is the difference between Israel and other of the US tagged "Rogue States". Israel have illegal nuclear weapons, bomb towns killing innocent people and invade countries.

    But because Jews have a major stakehold in US affairs, they "are acting against terrorists" and are a legit country. (Despite there being no such thing as Israel until World War II ended.)


  • #85
    cloptrop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭cloptrop


    humanji wrote: »
    Just because he is associated with terrorists doesn't mean he should be held without charge for in indefinite amount of time. If there's evidence of a crime, it should be used in a trial. People shouldn't be locked up on the odd chance that they may have commited a crime.
    Isreal legally owns that land that they are fighting over does it not. If a gang of travellers set up camp in your garden and started suicide bombing your family whenever they got the bus would you be here complaining that they locked up their spokesman?
    It doesnt matter who should own it . Isreal own it end of . The fact the fella wont eat has nothing to do with it . Isreal do not have the responsibility of force feeding someone. If someone wants to starve to death I say let him .


  • #86
    Seachmall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    RiseToTheTop wrote: »
    legit country. (Despite there being no such thing as Israel until World War II ended.)

    I don't get this argument. Was there a deadline on declaring countries that they missed?

    Why does when they came into existence have anything to do with them being a legit country?


  • #87
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    cloptrop wrote: »
    Isreal legally owns that land that they are fighting over does it not. ......

    It - rather notoriously - does not.


  • #88
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    RiseToTheTop wrote: »
    Too many Jews in high places in the US for anything to be done.

    What is the difference between Israel and other of the US tagged "Rogue States". Israel have illegal nuclear weapons, bomb towns killing innocent people and invade countries.

    But because Jews have a major stakehold in US affairs, they "are acting against terrorists" and are a legit country. (Despite there being no such thing as Israel until World War II ended.)

    Anti-semetic bollocks, tbh.


  • #89
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    cloptrop wrote: »
    If a gang of travellers set up camp in your garden and started suicide bombing your family whenever they got the bus would you be here complaining that they locked up their spokesman?
    Actually it would be more accurately described as thus:

    You see a large group of travellers living on a piece of land that they've lived on for generations. You decide for no good reason that the land belongs to you and build a house there and force the travellers to vacate a part of the land to suit you.
    As time goes on, you're not satisfied with the land you have and you continually relocate the travellers to other parts of the plot at gunpoint, killing any that get in your way.
    The travellers get frustrated, and in frustration they kick your car, denting it. So in retalitation you burn half of their encampment and kill hundreds of them.
    This kind of back-and-forth (small acts by them, massive overreaction by you) goes on for a little while until you decide to start capturing any travellers found outside "their" part of the land, locking them in your basement without telling them why you're doing it.

    Who's in the wrong here?


  • #90
    Ellian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 301 ✭✭Ellian


    cloptrop wrote: »
    Isreal legally owns that land that they are fighting over does it not.

    No it doesn't.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law_and_Israeli_settlements


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  • #91
    token101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,050 ✭✭✭token101


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    The Isaraeli people have consistently endorsed their state's war on the Palestinian people. What did they expect? :confused:

    So it's ok for them to blow up innocents? What about the few that don't agree? Are they legitimate targets aswell? If that's the case then it's full blown war and anything goes. I don't remember the Palestinians putting Gilad Shilat on trial.


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