Iran behind attacks on Israeli diplomats

Einhard · 15-02-2012 01:07PM

Batsy wrote: »

It is the JEWS who have been living in the area where Israel is for thousands of years, not the Palestinians, not the Muslims.

It was the Jews who founded Jerusalem thousands of years before Islam was even founded. Not only that, but the ancestors of the Palestinians only arrived in the area a couple of hundred years ago.

Eh, Jerusalem didn't originate as a Jewish city. It was resolutely pagan and polytheist for thousands of years before anyone even considered a single God called Yahweh.

Just because one once lived in a certain area doesn't mean that one has rights in perpetuity to that area. I can understand why the international community felt the need to establish a Jewish state, and why the Jews wanted one, but that doesn't lessen the fact that its creation was an injustice.

That's history though. We have to deal with things as they are now. Otherwise we'd be demanding not only the dismantling of Israel but also the expulsion of all whites from Australia.

Einhard · 15-02-2012 01:10PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

Exactly. This Palestinian cause is a weak cause because it has no solid foundations behind it.

Ah FFS Keith. Do you even engage your brain before you spout this nonsense? You claim that the Palestinians, living in the Levant for thousands of years, have no claim to the place, and yet trump the rights of Protestant Unions in the North- mere blow-ins relative to the Paelstinian settlement in Paelstine? Seriously, how can you hold two such contradictory views in your head at the same time without suffering migraines at the least?

Riddle101 · 15-02-2012 01:11PM

WW3 blah blah blah.....

It's only inevitable that Iran and Isreal clash. Personally I would like to see it just be between Iran and Isreal, no allies involved.

imme · 15-02-2012 01:12PM

If Iran is as good at nuclear bomb making as they are at espionage I think we don't have too much to worry about.

Seriously though it is worrying that they are working to make a nuclear bomb (fact).

In such an unstable and volatile region this can't bode well.

KeithAFC · 15-02-2012 01:13PM

Einhard wrote: »

Ah FFS Keith. Do you even engage your brain before you spout this nonsense? You claim that the Palestinians, living in the Levant for thousands of years, have no claim to the place, and yet trumper the rights of Protestant Unions in the North, blow ins relative to the Paelstinian settlement in Paelstine? Seriously, how can you hold two such contradictory views in your head at the same time without suffering migraines at the least?

Different debate for a different thread Einhard. Lets try and keep this on topic.

The point Batsy made was very important in regards to the Palestine cause. I don't think we should derail the thread away from that point.

wes · 15-02-2012 01:15PM

Batsy wrote: »

It is the JEWS who have been living in the area where Israel is for thousands of years, not the Palestinians, not the Muslims.

Palestinians are descended from Jews. Genetic testing has proven this.

Batsy wrote: »

It was the Jews who founded Jerusalem thousands of years before Islam was even founded. Not only that, but the ancestors of the Palestinians only arrived in the area a couple of hundred years ago.

Islam is a religion, and like most Religions it looks for converts. So, Islam coming after the founding of Jerusalem doesn't matter, as the people living there could become Muslim long after.

Also, Palestinians are descended from Jews (and the various people who lived in that area):

DNA and genetic studies
--SNIP--
One DNA study by Nebel found genetic evidence in support of historical records that "part, or perhaps the majority" of Muslim Palestinians descend from "local inhabitants, mainly Christians and Jews, who had converted after the Islamic conquest in the seventh century AD".[110] They also found substantial genetic overlap between Muslim Palestinians and Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews, though with some significant differences that might be explainable by the geographical isolation of the Jews or by immigration of Arab tribes in the first millennium.
[110]
--SNIP--

Either way there is still no excuse for ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, and I am amazed that anyone is actually defending ethnic cleansing.

tfitzgerald · 15-02-2012 01:16PM

Einhard wrote: »

Ah FFS Keith. Do you even engage your brain before you spout this nonsense? You claim that the Palestinians, living in the Levant for thousands of years, have no claim to the place, and yet trumper the rights of Protestant Unions in the North, blow ins relative to the Paelstinian settlement in Paelstine? Seriously, how can you hold two such contradictory views in your head at the same time without suffering migraines at the least?

I think Keith just got burnt:). We are going to wake up some day soon to find that Isreal has bombed the sh1t out of Iran and then we are all in trouble .

Batsy · 15-02-2012 01:18PM

The surnames of the Palestinians reflect that their ancestors only moved to the area from elsewhere only relatively recently. Palestinian surnames are the places where their ancestors came from:

"Khamis"= from Bahrain "Salem Hanna Khamis"
"al-ubayyidi" or "al-Obeidi"= from sudan "al-ubayyid"
"al-Faruqi"= Mosul iraq
"al-Araj" = Morocco,a member of the Saadi Dynasty "Hussein al-Araj"
"al-Lubnani" =the lebanese
"al-Mughrabi" = the Moroccan ("Maghreb" – meaning "West" in Arabic, and usually referring to North Africa or specifically to Morocco) ,"Dalal Mughrabi"
"al-Djazair"=the Algerian
"al-Qurashi"=saudi arabia "clan of Quraish"
"al-azd" =yemen "Azd tribe"
"al-Yamani"= the Yemeni "Issam Al Yamani"
"al-Afghani" = the Afghan
"Al-Sidawi" = from "Sidon" lebanon
"Al-fayyumi" = from "Faiyum" egypt
"al-Hijazi" or "Hijazi" = present-day saudi arabia "Ahlam Higazi, a "Palestinian" artist from Hebron"
"al-Hindi" =the Indian "Amin al-Hindi"
"al-Tamimi" or "Tamimi" = from the tribe or clan of Banu-Tamim "Azzam Tamimi"
"Hamati" = from syria ( HAMA city)
"Omayya" = from saudi arabia "Banu Omayya tribe" "Omayya Joha" "palestinian artist" "
"Othman" = turkey
"murad" =yemen "murad tribe"
"Alawi" = from syria (minority religious group in syria)
"Iraqi" =from Iraq.
"halabi" =from aleppo syria
"Dajani"= from saudi arabia
"Mattar" = from YEMEN (the village of BANI Mattar)
"al-baghdadi"= from bagdad iraq.
"Tarabulsi"= Tarabulus-Tripoli, Lebanon.
"Hourani" =Houran Syria.
"Zubeidi"= from iraq "Zubeidi tribe" "Zakaria Zubeidi"
"al-Husayni" =saudi arabia.
"Saudi" =Saudi Arabia.
"Metzarwah"=egypt.
"Bardawil" ="salah bardawil" HAMAS legislator in gaza,egypt "bardawil lake" area
"nashashibi"= syria.
"Bushnak" =bosnia
"zoabi"= from iraq "Haneen Zoabi".
"Turki" =turkey "Daud Turki"
"al-Kurd" = kurdistan.
"Haddadins" = YEMEN descended from Ghassanid Christian Arabs.
"Arab Abu-Kishk" = Egypt.(Bedouins)
"Arab al shakirat" = Egypt (Bedouins)
"Arab al zabidat" = Egypt (Bedouins)
"Arab al aramsha" = Egypt (Bedouins)

The reason for all this is because there has never been a sovereign state known as Palestine. It wasn't that long ago that "Palestine" was part of Greater Syria.

However, prior to the current sovereign state of Israel, there have been two previous Israels in that area.

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.

"For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."

Zuheir Mohsen, March 1977

“Of all the Palestinian lies there is no lie greater or more crushing than that which calls for the establishment of a separate Palestinian state in the West Bank... Not since the time of Dr. Goebbels has there been a case in which continual repetition of a lie has borne such great fruits....”

– From “Palestinian Lies” in Haaretz, July 1976.

Incredibly, that was written by Amnon Rubenstein of the Meretz party back in the days when supporting a 'Palestinian' state was rightfully considered treason in Israel. But Rubenstein was correct. There is no such thing as a separate 'Palestinian' nation.

Remember Azmi Bishara, the 'Israeli Arab' politician who fled Israel when he was about to be indicted for treason for helping Hezbullah in the 2006 Second Lebanon War? Well, here he is on Israeli television in 1994.

Here's the full translation of what he said (translated by an Israeli in the comments, so the English isn't great)

"i dont think that there is palestinian nation

then he ask him "you dont think there is palestine?" and he answer: no i think there is arab nation i allways thought like that and i didnt change my mind, i dont think there is palestinian nation, i think it's colonial invention palestinian nation, when was palestinian people where is what *laughing* i think there is arab nation even if i am fighting against israel i didnt turn palestine.

Relying strictly on Arab sources, Martin Sherman writes that this is all part of a lie: The lie that there is a 'Palestinian nation.'

The partition of Palestine, in 1947, and the establishment of Israel are illegal and null and void, regardless of the passage of time... The claims of historic and spiritual ties between Jews and Palestine are incompatible with the facts of history or with true conception of what constitutes statehood.

– Articles 17 and 18 of the original Palestinian National Covenant (1964). (The same clauses appear almost verbatim as Clauses 19 and 20 in the current version. Both are posted at the website of the Permanent Observer Mission of Palestine at the UN.) This declaration, made long before any “occupation” or “settlements,” highlights that Arab enmity towards Israel is fueled by its being – not by its borders. It proves irrefutably that the establishment of a Palestinian state and the eradication of Jewish presence in Judea and Samaria will do nothing to attenuate the refusal to acknowledge the right of the Jews to a nation-state, whatever its frontiers – if any further proof was necessary after the 2005 Gaza debacle.

All of this should be borne in mind as September 23 approaches. For what we are about to witness at the UN is nothing less an endeavor at political alchemy – the conjuring up of a substantive political construct out of mere political myth; an attempt to produce a nation where the elements of nationhood do not exist; an effort to construct a state when the components of statehood are absent.

...

Not only do the Palestinians admit that they are not a discrete sociological entity, i.e., a people.

They also concede that as a political unit, i.e., a nation, their demands and aspirations as are neither genuine nor permanent.

Thus Muhsin candidly confessed: “It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity, because it is in the interest of the Arabs to encourage a separate Palestinian identity. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel [sic].”

Doesn’t get much more explicit than that! Indeed the Palestinians not only affirm that their national demands are bogus, but that they are only a temporary instrumental ruse.

...

Article 16 of the original version of the Palestinian National sets out the desire of the people of Palestine, “who look forward to... restoring the legitimate situation to Palestine, establishing peace and security in its territory, and enabling its people to exercise national sovereignty...”

However, since the Covenant was adopted in 1964, well before Israel “occupied” a square inch of the “West Bank” or Gaza, the question is precisely what is meant by “its territory” in which the Palestinians were “looking forward...to exercise national sovereignty.” Indeed in Article 24, they state specifically what this territory did not include, and where they were not seeking to exercise “national sovereignty.”

In it they explicitly proclaim that they do not desire to “exercise any territorial sovereignty over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, [or] on the Gaza Strip.”

From this we learn two stunning facts. Not only did the Palestinians not claim the “West Bank” and Gaza as part of their homeland, but they specifically excluded them from it. Moreover, they explicitly acknowledged – and accepted –that the “West Bank” belonged to another sovereign entity, the Hashemite Kingdom.

There is thus not the slightest resemblance – indeed not even one square inch of overlap – between the territory claimed by the Palestinians as their “homeland” when they first formulated their national aspirations and the “homeland” allegedly envisaged/claimed today.

Indeed, the two visions of “homeland” territories are mutually exclusive.

Accordingly, it would seem that Jewish rule is far more central in defining the location of the Palestinian “homeland” than any “collective historical memory.”

For the Palestinians only incorporated the “West Bank” (and Gaza) in their territorial claims when they came under Israeli control – clearly vindicating the view that the concept of “Palestinian-ness” is a fabricated construct, conjured up to further the Arab quest to repudiate “Jewishness.”

Read the whole thing: http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=238146

Why should we give one square inch of the Holy Land to these stinking frauds?

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2011/09/when-were-there-ever-any-palestinians.html

Einhard · 15-02-2012 01:19PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

Different debate for a different thread Einhard. Lets try and keep this on topic.

The point Batsy made was very important in regards to the Palestine cause. I don't think we should derail the thread away from that point.

No it's not a deifferent debate. You cannot logically claim that Unionists in the North have a claim to a land they settled hundreds of years ago, and deny the same right to the Palestinians, a people who were living in the Levant when the ancestors of many a Protestant Unionist was scratching about in the forests between the Weser and the Elbe!

Einhard · 15-02-2012 01:20PM

Batsy wrote: »

The surnames of the Palestinians reflect that their ancestors only moved to the area from elsewhere only relatively recently. Palestinian surnames are the places where their ancestors came from:

And the vast majority of Israelis living in the Middle East only moved there from somewhere else relatively recently.

Batsy · 15-02-2012 01:20PM

wes wrote: »

Palestinians are descended from Jews. Genetic testing has proven this.

Islam is a religion, and like most Religions it looks for converts. So, Islam coming after the founding of Jerusalem doesn't matter, as the people living there could become Muslim long after.

Also, Palestinians are descended from Jews (and the various people who lived in that area):

Either way there is still no excuse for ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, and I am amazed that anyone is actually defending ethnic cleansing.

I don't care what you say. There has never been a sovereign state known as Palestine.

KeithAFC · 15-02-2012 01:22PM

Einhard wrote: »

No it's not a deifferent debate. You cannot logically claim that Unionists in the North have a claim to a land they settled hundreds of years ago, and deny the same right to the Palestinians, a people who were living in the Levant when the ancestors of many a Protestant Unionist was scratching about in the forests between the Weser and the Elbe!

Like I said I don't think this thread should be allowed to get taken off topic because the argument is being lost on the pro Palestinian side. I won't discuss the constitutionalist question on this thread in regards to N.I.

Einhard · 15-02-2012 01:24PM

Batsy wrote: »

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=238146

Why should we give one square inch of the Holy Land to these stinking frauds?

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2011/09/when-were-there-ever-any-palestinians.html

You know what, it's people like you on both sides that have exacerbated the situation in the region to the extent that compromise and peaceful co-existence now seem like alien concepts.

We're not "giving" the Holy Land to them- they have lived there for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

By your logic, we should demand all non-native Americans vacate that continent, and all Protestant Unions get the hell out of Northern Ireland.

Why do you have such an apparent hatred for the Palestinian people?

wes · 15-02-2012 01:24PM

Batsy wrote: »

The surnames of the Palestinians reflect that their ancestors only moved to the area from elsewhere only relatively recently. Palestinian surnames are the places where their ancestors came from:

No it doesn't. The genetic tests tell a different story. So unless you can refute them, then you claims are just fiction. Nothing in the article (from the hugely biased Jerusalem post btw) refutes the genetic evidence. So its very simple, unless you can provide proof that the genetic evidence is wrong, you are spouting racist fiction and nothing more.

**EDIT**
Posting an article that doesn't address the point I made at all, is nothing short of astonishing. My proof is based on genetics, and you didn't bother to address that point at all, and instead ignored it.
**END EDIT**

Batsy wrote: »

Why should we give one square inch of the Holy Land to these stinking frauds?

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2011/09/when-were-there-ever-any-palestinians.html

So again defending ethnic cleansing. Nothing short of disgusting, and quite frankly you are no position to judge Iran or anyone else, considering you support of ethnic cleansing.

wes · 15-02-2012 01:25PM

Batsy wrote: »

I don't care what you say. There has never been a sovereign state known as Palestine.

Which doesn't justify the ethnic cleansing of the people living there, nor should that effect there rights. Again more excuses for racism and ethnic cleansing.

Einhard · 15-02-2012 01:26PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

Like I said I don't think this thread should be allowed to get taken off topic because the argument is being lost on the pro Palestinian side. I won't discuss the constitutionalist question on this thread in regards to N.I.

I'm pro- neither side. I've never heard the argument so perhaps you could present if for me? I promise that I'll engage with an open mind. I'm genuinely curious to know how you can reconcile two such apparently contradictory opinions.

If you continue to choose not to address the issue, I'll assume that you can't reconcile the two and your opinions are just thought up on the hoof, and probably therefore not worth of serious consideration.

Batsy · 15-02-2012 01:28PM

wes wrote: »

Which doesn't justify the ethnic cleansing of the people living there, nor should that effect there rights. Again more excuses for racism and ethnic cleansing.

Which group of people do you think has more rights and freedoms? Muslims living in Israel, or Jews living in Palestine?

I'd say it's the former.

If someone's being "racist" here it isn't the Israelis.

Einhard · 15-02-2012 01:29PM

Batsy wrote: »

I don't care what you say. There has never been a sovereign state known as Palestine.

There was never a sovereign state known as east Timor either. Should the world have used that rather inane and irrelevant fact to deny them freedom from an Indonesia which had a history of brutal oppression there?

Indeed, there was never a sovereign state known as Ireland until we won our independence. If only someone had told the Brits- they would have had an entirely legitimate reason not to negotiate or compromise!

Biggins · 15-02-2012 01:32PM

Regardless of who is right and who is wrong - I'm no expert in this topic so I'm not qualified to say "who threw the first proverbial stone!" - the fact is that if the Israelis think they have amassed enough belief to think that Iran is responsible for whatever, the one thing you can be sure of is that they WILL hit back.
There is no "if's" or "buts" about that.
Its just a case of how and when - and the Israelis are very good at playing waiting games when necessary.

wes · 15-02-2012 01:34PM

Batsy wrote: »

Which group of people do you think has more rights and freedoms? Muslims living in Israel, or Jews living in Palestine?

I'd say it's the former.

I'd say you delusional, as there is no Palestinian state (you said as much youreself earlier), and Israelis do have superior rights in the West Bank:
Rights group slams planned 'Israelis only' highway in West Bank

Also, Israel controls the West Bank, with the exception of giving the PA, what amounts to the power of a local authority in some limited areas. Israeli's living in the West Bank, live under Israeli law and not Palesitnian law, and are not governed by Palestinians. Simply put you claim is utterly ridiculous to the point, where you clearly have no idea what you are talking about, and just seem to change the subject when shown to be wrong.

Batsy wrote: »

If someone's being "racist" here it isn't the Israelis.

There is certainly racism on both sides, but Israel is the occupying power, and to claim that Palestians are some how oppressing Jews is utterly lauaghable, and cleary show you have no idea what your talking about. Palestinains do no rule over any Jews, they don't even rule over themselves. You clearly have very little knowledge of the conflict imho.

I also notice you have yet to condemn the ethnic cleansing.....

up for anything · 15-02-2012 01:36PM

fedor.2. wrote: »

I think we all agree that Iran needs to be taught a lesson once and for all

No actually, we don't all agree. :rolleyes:

Zebra3 wrote: »

Congrats on starting a thread with a nice catchy title that you can't back up with facts. :rolleyes:

It's a stupid poster who states in a thread title "Iran behind attacks on Israeli diplomats". If I'd been typing that, I would have written "Iran behind attacks on Israeli diplomats?" unless of course I had bundles of written proof to back up my allegations.

Einhard · 15-02-2012 01:37PM

up for anything wrote: »

It's a stupid poster who states in a thread title "Iran behind attacks on Israeli diplomats". If I'd been typing that, I would have written "Iran behind attacks on Israeli diplomats?" unless of course I had bundles of written proof to back up my allegations.

In fairness, many people have linked Israel to the attcks on Iranian scientists without a similar burden of proof and they are seldom ever called on it.

Batsy · 15-02-2012 01:38PM

Einhard wrote: »

There was never a sovereign state known as east Timor either. Should the world have used that rather inane and irrelevant fact to deny them freedom from an Indonesia which had a history of brutal oppression there?

Indeed, there was never a sovereign state known as Ireland until we won our independence. If only someone had told the Brits- they would have had an entirely legitimate reason not to negotiate or compromise!

Those are different cases entirely.

No "Palestinians" were shouting for an independent Palestinian state before the third Israel came along. "Palestinians" were never bothered about having an independent Palestinian state before. But now that the vile, nasty, baby-eating Jews have got their own Jewish state in an area that the Muslims, for some reason, think should be a Muslim state, the "Palestinians" have started banging on about the "evils" perpetrated against the "Palestinian people" (when the Palestinian people don't actually exist due to their ancestors coming mainly from other Middle Eastern states nearby) and calling for fellow Palestinians to overthrow the "occupying Israelis" when, in fact, Palestine is NOT occupied by Israel because there has never been a sovereign state of Palestine.

Rather than Israel occupying what was once a sovereign state, Israel merely declared independence from the British Mandate for Palestine, which was not a sovereign state because it was previously part of Syria.

MagicMarker · 15-02-2012 01:40PM

Linked Article in OP

Two men fled the scene while the third, wounded and disorientated from the blast, attempted to hail down a taxi before throwing a grenade at the car and then again at police.

The assailant, an Iranian national identified as Saied Moradi, missed his target, however, and the bomb detonated in front of him, blowing off one leg and requiring the amputation of the other.

Fucking lol!

karma_ · 15-02-2012 01:44PM

Batsy wrote: »

Those are different cases entirely.

No "Palestinians" were shouting for an independent Palestinian state before the third Israel came along. "Palestinians" were never bothered about having an independent Palestinian state before. But now that the vile, nasty, baby-eating Jews have got their own Jewish state in an area that the Muslims, for some reason, think should be a Muslim state, the "Palestinians" have started banging on about the "evils" perpetrated against the "Palestinian people" (when the Palestinian people don't actually exist due to their ancestors coming mainly from other Middle Eastern states nearby) and calling for fellow Palestinians to overthrow the "occupying Israelis" when, in fact, Palestine is NOT occupied by Israel because there has never been a sovereign state of Palestine.

Rather than Israel occupying what was once a sovereign state, Israel merely declared independence from the British Mandate for Palestine, which was not a sovereign state because it was previously part of Syria.

Here Batsy, you deserve a break man, you don't have to be an idiotic moron every day of your life you know.

hooradiation · 15-02-2012 01:45PM

Batsy wrote: »

Those are different cases entirely.

No "Palestinians" were shouting for an independent Palestinian state before the third Israel came along. "Palestinians" were never bothered about having an independent Palestinian state before. But now that the vile, nasty, baby-eating Jews have got their own Jewish state in an area that the Muslims, for some reason, think should be a Muslim state, the "Palestinians" have started banging on about the "evils" perpetrated against the "Palestinian people" (when the Palestinian people don't actually exist due to their ancestors coming mainly from other Middle Eastern states nearby) and calling for fellow Palestinians to overthrow the "occupying Israelis" when, in fact, Palestine is NOT occupied by Israel because there has never been a sovereign state of Palestine. Rather than Israel occupying what was once a sovereign state, Israel merely declared independence from the British Mandate for Palestine, which was not a sovereign state.

Oh hey, it's republican presidential primary candidate and human pillsbury doughboy, Newt Gingrich!

Good to know that level of disconnect from reality has been exported and embraced as part of the 'special relationship'.

RichieC · 15-02-2012 01:45PM

Well it looks like the war is all but started..

wes · 15-02-2012 01:48PM

Batsy wrote: »

Those are different cases entirely.

No there not. There perfectly valid examples.

Batsy wrote: »

No "Palestinians" were shouting for an independent Palestinian state before the third Israel came along.

Nationalism is recent thing...... Also, Zionism didn't come into existence until the late 1800's. I fail to see the Palestinian nationalism getting a later start, make it any less valid than Zionism.

Batsy wrote: »

"Palestinians" were never bothered about having an independent Palestinian state before. But now that the vile, nasty, baby-eating Jews have got their own Jewish state in an area that the Muslims, for some reason, think should be a Muslim state, the "Palestinians" have started banging on about the "evils" perpetrated against the "Palestinian people" (when the Palestinian people don't actually exist due to their ancestors coming mainly from other Middle Eastern states nearby) and calling for fellow Palestinians to overthrow the "occupying Israelis" when, in fact, Palestine is NOT occupied by Israel because there has never been a sovereign state of Palestine.

Yes, they are being occupied according to international law. The previous existence of Palestinian state is neither here nor there. The rights of the people living there can't just be ignored, due to some nonsensical excuse that you came up with.

Also, I have clearly shown that Palestinians have lived there via genetic evidence, and you have yet to refute that evidence, or even acknowledge it.

Batsy wrote: »

Rather than Israel occupying what was once a sovereign state, Israel merely declared independence from the British Mandate for Palestine, which was not a sovereign state and was once part of Syria.

The Palestinian mandate and Jordan were actually one mandate, but this was changed later by the British (again you show you haven't a clue). They were both a part of the Ottoman empire before that, where Palestine was a seperate province, and before that the Romans ruled it and so on. Lots of different people ran the place.

Either way I fail to see why it matters. The Palestinians are according to international law being occupied. As such the Israelis should get to there own side of the border, and stopping stealing someone elses land. I fail to see how the history changes the present day facts.

karma_ · 15-02-2012 01:52PM

wes wrote: »

No there not.

Nationalism is recent thing...... Also, Zionism didn't come into existence until the late 1800's. I fail to see the Palestinian nationalism getting a later start, make it any less valid than Zionism.

Yes, they are being occupied according to international law. The previous existence of Palestinian state is neither here nor there. The rights of the people living there can't just be ignored, due to some nonsensical excuse that you come up with.

Also, I have clearly shown that Palestinians have lived there via genetic evidence, and you have yet to refute that evidence, or even acknowledge it.

The Palestinian mandate and Jordan were actually one mandate, but this was changed later by the British (again you show you haven't a clue). They were both a part of the Ottoman empire before that, where Palestine was a seperate province, and before that the Romans ruled it and so on. Lots of different people ran the place.

Wasting your time wes, Batsy doesn't do logic or reason, he's too busy with his nose buried in the daily mail.

Micky Dolenz · 15-02-2012 01:53PM

karma_ wrote: »

Here Batsy, you deserve a break man, you don't have to be an idiotic moron every day of your life you know.

Banned

Iran behind attacks on Israeli diplomats

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