money..??

14-02-2012 03:03PM

nobody said that everyone should have been renting

COYW · 14-02-2012 03:10PM

Feeona wrote: »

But what it points to is that Ireland is not a country that is in serious trouble when you're talking about people getting by.

Most people here can no longer sustain the lifestyle they became accustomed to over the boom years. This dip in lifestyle is being sold as some class of poverty. As others have said, people still have the money to go to concerts, holidays, sports events and such but they can no longer do so at the same rate that they did previously.

davet82 wrote: »

I know most countries in europe and in the US rent, what laws do they have to protect the tenant to make your tenancy more... secure lets say?

The government controls the leases. So you essentially get a long term lease from the government.

mkdon05 · 14-02-2012 03:14PM

bluewolf wrote: »

nobody said that everyone should have been renting

Well there wouldn't have really been a third option then.

14-02-2012 03:16PM

mkdon05 wrote: »

Well there wouldn't have really been a third option then.

do you think something is only an option if absolutely everybody in the entire country should do it?
if i ask you for options on where to do my shopping, is shopping at tesco only an option if absolutely everyone in the country must shop in tesco and ignore all the other shops?

maybe you think the original person's other suggested options, i.e. 1, Pay big money in a fairly decent area 2, Pay not so big money (but still overpriced) to live in a not so nice area. were also unrealistic unless absolutely everyone chooses one of them?

AeoNGriM · 14-02-2012 03:17PM

get back....I'm alright Jack, keep your hands off my stack?

mkdon05 · 14-02-2012 03:37PM

What were people options then? Buy an overpriced house in a nice area, Buy an overpriced house in a bad area or Rent. Can we agree there were 3 options?

If renting was to be included in the options list, then someone would still have to buy that house to rent it out.

If Tesco was the only shop to buy groceries , then you only have one option, regardless of how many people go there or not. Eat or die.

TheMilkyPirate · 14-02-2012 03:38PM

I will always rent, The only way i will ever buy a house is if i win a shedload of money and can outright afford one. I love renting when my year lease is up if i fancy a change i can move onto a different house no hassle no problem, If i like the house 8 times outta ten the landlord has no problem extending your lease. No big debts hanging over me like a giant cloud of doom. Bollox to that.

14-02-2012 03:38PM

mkdon05 wrote: »

What were people options then? Buy an overpriced house in a nice area, Buy an overpriced house in a bad area or Rent. Can we agree there were 3 options?

That's what I originally said...

Mance Rayder · 14-02-2012 03:41PM

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Well anyone who got caught up in buying gafs on my ma's road in artane for 600,000 euros in 2007 are thick eejits and made their own bed

Yeah thats madness in fairness. Anyone with sense would of known they were over priced by about 450k.

mkdon05 · 14-02-2012 03:44PM

bluewolf wrote: »

That's what I originally said...

I know that but its the bit I said after what you quoted that is important.

ronjo · 14-02-2012 03:48PM

mkdon05 wrote: »

I know that but its the bit I said after what you quoted that is important.

Will you just let it go.
Of course people had the option to rent and you are just looking for a petty argument by saying that its not a fair option to include.

Doc Ruby · 14-02-2012 03:52PM

I think people in Ireland at least should have the option to buy a house if they want to, its a fairly underpopulated and underdeveloped country, urbanisation is way below European norms.

mkdon05 · 14-02-2012 03:59PM

ronjo wrote: »

Will you just let it go.
Of course people had the option to rent and you are just looking for a petty argument by saying that its not a fair option to include.

I give up, you're missing the point altogether. Is it really not a valid point or do you just not want to accept it because it doesn't fit in with your ' look at me, I didn't buy a house, I rented because I'm clever' when in fact you didn't have the means to buy a house and just got lucky.

later12 · 14-02-2012 04:00PM

CiscoStudent wrote: »

Yeah thats madness in fairness. Anyone with sense would of known they were over priced by about 450k.

There is no such thing as a true and known intrinsic value in an asset. All "intrinsic values" in finance are based on perception and are sensitive to market factors and economic performance. To be a little more blunt, an object is worth what the highest bidder is willing to pay.

There is no rule that €450,000 is the highest that anyone should pay for a home on a specific road, beyond which anything extra is unreasonable. That's just an arbitrary and impractical rule that has no basis in finance or economics, or more importantly common sense at all.

ronjo · 14-02-2012 04:04PM

mkdon05 wrote: »

I give up, you're missing the point altogether. Is it really not a valid point or do you just not want to accept it because it doesn't fit in with your ' look at me, I didn't buy a house, I rented because I'm clever' when in fact you didn't have the means to buy a house and just got lucky.

Could I have
1, Paid big money in a fairly decent area? YES
2, Paid not so big money (but still overpriced) to live in a not so nice area? YES
3, Rented? YES

Did I do any of the above? NO

Glad to hear you are giving up though.

Feeona · 14-02-2012 04:13PM

I dislike the implication usually thrown about that most people bought a house during the boom out of sheer greed and/or stupidity. The possible fact that maybe people wanted stability for themselves and their family rarely seems to be mentioned. Stability you could not rely on in rented accommodation in Ireland. Of course we have families living in over priced houses/flats because they bought during the boom. I don't think it's fair to point and gloat 'Ha they should have rented'. These are real families, with real parents who probably travel three hours a day to and from work, get home and try and do a bit of homework with their kids, have a bit to eat and straight to bed. They can't move closer to work because they can't sell their houses. They can't leave their jobs due to financial commitments. They bought at the time thinking 'We'll get jobs closer to home/we'll move closer to work when the kids are a bit older' etc.

'They should have rented' is not a solution, and smacks of unbearable smugness.

mkdon05 · 14-02-2012 04:13PM

ronjo wrote: »

Could I have
1, Paid big money in a fairly decent area? YES
2, Paid not so big money (but still overpriced) to live in a not so nice area? YES
3, Rented? YES

Did I do any of the above? NO

Glad to hear you are giving up though.

Well I'm glad to hear Mammy and Daddy could house you. Not the case for everyone!

14-02-2012 04:16PM

Feeona wrote: »

'They should have rented' is not a solution, and smacks of unbearable smugness.

I hope this is not addressed to me

The original person said there were ONLY two options. There were not. That's the end of the discussion frankly. What people "should" have done has not come into it once. I don't care what people did or did not do or should or should not have done. What I care about is people coming on here complaining that everyone in the country had to buy and couldn't do anything else

Doc Ruby · 14-02-2012 04:19PM

later10 wrote: »

There is no rule that €450,000 is the highest that anyone should pay for a home on a specific road, beyond which anything extra is unreasonable. That's just an arbitrary and impractical rule that has no basis in finance or economics, or more importantly common sense at all.

You can make a very solid case based on rental returns for the area though, which does make financial sense.

Feeona · 14-02-2012 04:20PM

bluewolf wrote: »

I hope this is not addressed to me

It's not addressed to you.

It's addressed to the countless threads pointing and laughing at those who find themselves in an unfortunate position nowadays. It's quite easy to spot the demographic of AH with threads like that!

14-02-2012 04:22PM

Feeona wrote: »

It's not addressed to you.

It's addressed to the countless threads pointing and laughing at those who find themselves in an unfortunate position nowadays. It's quite easy to spot the demographic of AH with threads like that!

okay, just a bit on edge

ronjo · 14-02-2012 04:24PM

mkdon05 wrote: »

Well I'm glad to hear Mammy and Daddy could house you. Not the case for everyone!

Thats not the case either for me but actually possibly a 4th option too I guess now that you mention it.

atila · 14-02-2012 04:24PM

Have people who like the idea of renting for life considered how they may fund housing in retirement years? buying a house is very dependent on what stage in life you are at. Always think long term when buying a house, but the same is true of choosing not to buy. You need to also consider the longer term horizon. The main thing is to have a plan and not just stumble through.

Nyan Cat · 14-02-2012 04:25PM

The point is a lot of people who did buy a house didn't actually have the means, hence the huge mortgages people are saddled with now. Yes the bank is partly to blame for throwing loans at people but that in no way excuses the responsibility that comes with the decision to do it.

It sucks that so many are saddled with huge debts now. But it is important to remember that while they couldn't know that the market would crash, you always have to be aware that the market changes. So do circumstances. And it seems many did not think about that.

I dont think renting gives anyone the moral high ground EXCEPT in cases where people refuse to acknowledge that they perhaps didn't think things through fully. And say things like '... I had to buy..' '...why should I be punished for biting..' etc or worse the ones that suggest everyone should share their burden.

Feeona · 14-02-2012 04:26PM

bluewolf wrote: »

okay, just a bit on edge

no worries!

AH gets to me sometimes too

dxhound2005 · 14-02-2012 04:26PM

Every age has it's problems and in the nature of things people who hold property for a number of years will become "richer". When I bought my house 30 years ago mortgage rates were 18% or so and rising. It was a very difficult time to be a new house owner just like now and just like always. At least people over the past few years have had the comfort of relatively stable interest rates.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/1015/1224281145830.html

later12 · 14-02-2012 04:28PM

Doc Ruby wrote: »

You can make a very solid case based on rental returns for the area though, which does make financial sense.

Yes, and indeed there is mathematical way of determining intrinsic value in an asset, be that real estate or any thing else. Banks and financial institutions do this all time time, and did so during the boom times in Ireland, too.

But these sorts of calculations are never concrete determinants of "intrinsic value". None of the property investors nor the financial institutions ever foresaw the calamitous shock that was to be delivered to the property industry and the wider economy, and could never reasonably have integrated such a shock into their calculations in determining the future effects of a housing collapse. Therefore, they could quite easily and quite reasonably have judged someone paying €600,000 or even €6,000,000 for a home to have been a reasonable and sage investment. That's entirely possible.

cb7 · 14-02-2012 04:30PM

There is a lot of people that I know moaning they have no money but yet dont want to give up their landline, broadband, gym membership, or sky!!!! I also know a few people moaning but still have a house keeper a few days a week!!! They don't work but yet don't want to give these things up. It is hard to listen to these people. There are of course genuine people who dont have much I know that. But there is also the ones who like to moan as they don't want to give up their lifestyle they have become accustomed to!!.

foxyboxer · 14-02-2012 04:32PM

gymman39 wrote: »

what probably didnt come across in my post was "is it worth putting up an image of been wealthy when things are that tight"I heard one story of a couple that have 5 credit cards and two huge loans from the bank and the credit union...madness..!!!

The 'Big Hat, No Cattle' merchants.

later12 · 14-02-2012 04:38PM

cb7 wrote: »

I also know a few people moaning but still have a house keeper a few days a week!!! They don't work but yet don't want to give these things up.

They don't work and they have a housekeeper?

Either you are friends with titled members of the royal family, or else I don't think I believe you.

money..??

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