Cyclist injured in accident on N4 on Lucan bypass heading west

mp31 · 13-02-2012 10:27PM #1

Was cycling home from town to Maynooth on the N4 and came across huge tailback that extended back down to the Woodies turnoff at Liffey Valley. I continued on and got to the Lucan bypass (at the top of the hill that leads down to the Leixslip turnoff) and saw a Garda in the cycle lane standing next to a red Cannondale CAAD bike which had its back end very badly damaged. Parked in the bus/filter lane was a small white van parked with the hazard lights on.
Stopped to talk to the Garda to find out what happened and he said that the cyclist was in the bus lane (and not in the dedicated cycle lane) but the van driver didn't see him(her) and went straight into the back of the bike.
Very sad to see this sort of thing and also worrying as it's my route home.
The cyclist was well lit from behind, it was dry and the street lighting was good which is even more worrying.:(
Whoever you are, I really hope you are not badly injured and that you recover quickly.

Keep_Her_Lit · 13-02-2012 11:26PM

Good of you to point this out. I share your concern for the cyclist and hope that their bike took the worst of it.

reidzer · 13-02-2012 11:57PM

I hope the guy is OK!

Is the cycle and bus lane along here not just separated by a white line? with bollards on one side separating from the main n4? I would have taught that was fairly safe...

mp31 wrote: »

Was cycling home from town to Maynooth on the N4 and came across huge tailback that extended back down to the Woodies turnoff at Liffey Valley. I continued on and got to the Lucan bypass (at the top of the hill that leads down to the Leixslip turnoff) and saw a Garda in the cycle lane standing next to a red Cannondale CAAD bike which had its back end very badly damaged. Parked in the bus/filter lane was a small white van parked with the hazard lights on.
Stopped to talk to the Garda to find out what happened and he said that the cyclist was in the bus lane (and not in the dedicated cycle lane) but the van driver didn't see him(her) and went straight into the back of the bike.
Very sad to see this sort of thing and also worrying as it's my route home.
The cyclist was well lit from behind, it was dry and the street lighting was good which is even more worrying.:(
Whoever you are, I really hope you are not badly injured and that you recover quickly.

Crow92 · 13-02-2012 11:58PM

Saw a cyclist on the ground at the bridge just before fairview park coming from town just after north strand road. (Annesly bridge maybe?) I didn't see the accident happen just him on the ground with a load of people around him, no ambulance or guards had arrived yet.

From what I could see it was evident his bike didn't have any lights. Though I'm unsure if he was a RLJ, still though it was from a car coming from east wall road so there would of been traffic lights.

kenmc · 14-02-2012 12:01AM

I hope the cyclist is ok. is the bus lane there not signed as a bus and cycle lane? what was the van doing in the bus lane though?

keith16 · 14-02-2012 12:03AM

Unbelievable...

Was cycling home from work this evening, saw a guy go past me, no lights or helmets and a big pair of headphones.

If it can happen to someone well lit up etc, it sure as hell can happen to anyone...:(

seven stars · 14-02-2012 12:06AM

Hope they're okay.

mp31, that's my commute too, although I wasn't in today. I'm trying to place where exactly it happened. Was it just after the Newcastle Rd junction, with the new(ish) flyover?

mp31 · 14-02-2012 01:19AM

I wish I'd made a better mental note but I think it was just after the R109 junction... around here http://g.co/maps/thcu6 .. see where the 'on ramp' lane from the previous junction narrows and blends into the main dual carriageway. The van was stopped in the bus lane just as the lane ends. Sorry but for some reason the view is looking back along the road against the flow of traffic but I hope you can see where I mean. If you look in the background, you can just see the R109 crossing over the N4.

Here the cycle lane and bus lane are separate (all the way along virtually). The cycle lane is higher up i.e. like a footpath but marked for bikes. The trouble is that the cycle paths along this section of the N4 (on both sides) are tricky to negotiate as there is all sorts of crap in them e.g. broken glass, rubbish, bits of wood and you end up having to weave in and out of bus stands etc. which makes 'rapid progress' difficult. Just before Xmas, heading into town, the cycle lane and bus lane were covered in a huge pile of glass from a broken bus stop glass panel. I managed to avoid it coz I was going so slow (too fat and unfit :eek:)

If you go further and keep going down the hill you eventually join the off ramp into Leixslip. Hope that all makes sense.

Am I allowed to speculate what happened? I'd like to but I'm not sure it will help.

Garda said it could have been avoided had the cyclist been using the cyclepath.

What annoyed me was that this particular driver didn't spot the cyclist who was well lit up (bike had one of those long 7 led rear lights in full mode) whilst driving conditions and visibility were good IMO.

I've spent most of the evening googling for large circular rear led lights and found nothing.

kenmc · 14-02-2012 08:18AM

mp31 wrote: »

Garda said it could have been avoided had the cyclist been using the cyclepath.

... or if the driver had seen the supposedly well lit cyclist. or million other "ifs and maybes". stupid statement by the cop.

again, I'd like to know what the driver was doing in the bus lane.

Beasty · 14-02-2012 08:57AM

mp31 wrote: »

Am I allowed to speculate what happened?

No

mp31 wrote: »

What annoyed me was that this particular driver didn't spot the cyclist who was well lit up (bike had one of those long 7 led rear lights in full mode) whilst driving conditions and visibility were good IMO.

You were not a witness and are in no position to state what did or did not happen or who did or did not do what or apportion blame, whatever the Garda said

Thanks

Beasty

seven stars · 14-02-2012 10:56AM

The gardai stopped me on the way in this morning, very close to that spot but on the other side of the road. One guard got out and gave me a bit of a bollicking for not using the cycle path, and he gave me some of the details of that accident last night. I wasn't a witness to the accident though, so I'll keep them to myself. He said that the lad is in James Connolly hospital with serious head injuries. I really, really hope he's okay. One thing I will share though, is that they're apparently going to have to prosecute the cyclist because there's a dedicated cycle path (converted footpath) at that spot and the cyclist wasn't using it. That's what he told me anyway.

I have to say that, despite giving me a bollicking, the guard who stopped me was sound about it and seemed to have my welfare as his main concern. He asked me why I wasn't using the cycle path, and I explained that I prefer to use the bus lane. He said that I wasn't in the bus lane either - which was true, I was in the hard shoulder of the dual carriageway at the underpass, and he said it was illegal to cycle in the hard shoulder of a dual carriageway. Which I thought was odd. In any case, I went by the cycle path the rest of the way as far as Palmerstown.

I'd love to know exactly what the law is with all this.

seamus · 14-02-2012 11:00AM

seven stars wrote: »

I'd love to know exactly what the law is with all this.

Despite repeated assurances that it would be repealed, the law is still that cyclists are required to use a cycle lane where one is provided.

In the case of the accident, the cyclist may well be prosecuted for not using the cycle lane, but that doesn't automatically mean that he will be deemed at fault for the incident. The two are considered separate issues.

markpb · 14-02-2012 11:00AM

seven stars wrote: »

I was in the hard shoulder of the dual carriageway at the underpass, and he said it was illegal to cycle in the hard shoulder of a dual carriageway. Which I thought was odd. In any case, I went by the cycle path the rest of the way as far as Palmerstown. I'd love to know exactly what the law is with all this.

He's right. If it's a cycle lane (with correct signs), you must cycle in it. He's also right about the hard shoulder, it's illegal to drive/cycle in it.

munchkin_utd · 14-02-2012 11:09AM

seven stars wrote: »

I'd love to know exactly what the law is with all this.

me too!

so I searched and I found the relevant act relating to cyclists

PART IV. CYCLE TRAFFIC.

Cycle tracks
28.—(1) Where a cycle track is provided on a stretch of road—

(a) every pedal cycle being driven on that stretch of road (in the direction in which traffic on the side of the road adjacent to the cycle track is required to travel) shall be driven on the cycle track only, and

(b) a vehicle other than a pedal cycle shall not be driven on the cycle track.

(2) Notwithstanding paragraph (1) of this bye-law, an invalid carriage not mechanically propelled may be driven on a cycle track, provided that it is driven in the direction in which pedal cycles are required to be driven.

Driving two abreast
29.—(1) A pedal cyclist shall not, save when overtaking other pedal cyclists (and then only if to do so will not endanger other traffic or pedestrians) drive a pedal cycle on a roadway in such a manner as to result in more than two pedal cycles driving abreast.

(2) Pedal cyclists on a roadway shall cycle in single file when overtaking other traffic.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1964/en/si/0294.html#zzsi294y1964a28

and you might note that you are also required to travel on the track in the direction of the traffic

Rew · 14-02-2012 11:38AM

markpb wrote: »

He's also right about the hard shoulder, it's illegal to drive/cycle in it.

That's a a balls I do it every day for about 2km of my comute. Interestingly there is a sign along the way at one of the exits that say "Suggested Cycle Route" which is an odd thing to put up somewhere where your are cycling illegally.

galwaycyclist · 14-02-2012 11:38AM

seven stars wrote: »

I was in the hard shoulder of the dual carriageway at the underpass, and he said it was illegal to cycle in the hard shoulder of a dual carriageway. Which I thought was odd. In any case, I went by the cycle path the rest of the way as far as Palmerstown.

I'd love to know exactly what the law is with all this.

The law regarding Hard Shoulders is a matter of dispute every so often someone shows up on an internet bulletin board and claims it is illegal.

In the 1970s, the use of Hard Shoulders was associated with a 50% reduction in cyclist injuries.

If a guard is going around threatening to prosecute people for cycling in the Hard Shoulder then he wants his number taken and reported to his superintendent.

rp · 14-02-2012 11:52AM

I think this is the section:
6034073

I haven't seen a legal cycle lane sign on that section, although I think there may be a UK-style 'shared use' sign later on (no legal basis in Ireland), so the Bike&Bus sign means cyclist should use the bus lane.

rich.d.berry · 14-02-2012 12:13PM

Is it just me that finds the law around cycle paths confusing?

This sign here would indicate to me that cyclists are permitted to use the bus lane:

seven stars · 14-02-2012 01:41PM

This is exactly the question. That's the sign that appears all along the N4 where there's a bus lane and a (converted footpath) cycle lane. But it's also the sign that appears on the N4 all along the Chapelizod bypass, where there's a bus lane but no cycle path at all:

http://g.co/maps/ap4hv

fatwarren · 14-02-2012 01:53PM

i always avoid using the cycle lanes on the n4. when i used them before i would be guaranteed a flat tyre. nobody cleans the cyclelanes so why use them if there is a perfectly maintained bus lane?

droidus · 14-02-2012 01:59PM

Because some motorists seem to think they have the right to 'teach you a lesson' if you stay in the buslane.

Id be very interested to see what kind of signage is used to indicate the off road cycle lane and also if the victim here will be prosecuted for not using it, seeing as that would be (afaik) the first example of such a prosecution in the history of the state.

rp · 14-02-2012 02:02PM

galwaycyclist wrote: »

The law regarding Hard Shoulders is a matter of dispute every so often someone shows up on an internet bulletin board and claims it is illegal.

Seems pretty straight-forward in the RotR (my highlighting):

Road markings|What they mean
A single broken yellow line along the side of the road|This road contains a hard shoulder, which is normally only for pedestrians and cyclists. If a driver wants to allow a vehicle behind them to overtake, they may pull in to the hard shoulder briefly as long as no pedestrians or cyclists are already using it and no junctions or entrances are nearby. Different rules exist for hard shoulders on motorways. See Motorways section for details.

kenmc · 14-02-2012 02:10PM

rich.d.berry wrote: »

Is it just me that finds the law around cycle paths confusing?

This sign here would indicate to me that cyclists are permitted to use the bus lane:

Well if that sign is present where the incident occurred, that certainly looks to be a bus and bike lane, so the cyclist presumably and hopefully cannot be prosecuted for using the bus lane, whereas if the driver was in the bus lane, then presumably he can and will be prosecuted.

rich.d.berry · 14-02-2012 02:35PM

fatwarren wrote: »

i always avoid using the cycle lanes on the n4. when i used them before i would be guaranteed a flat tyre. nobody cleans the cyclelanes so why use them if there is a perfectly maintained bus lane?

It seems you're wrong and that Google managed to capture one of these rare events. Whether any cleaning actually took place with that brush is debatable though.

kenmc wrote: »

Well if that sign is present where the incident occurred, that certainly looks to be a bus and bike lane, so the cyclist presumably and hopefully cannot be prosecuted for using the bus lane, whereas if the driver was in the bus lane, then presumably he can and will be prosecuted.

Yes, that is a screen capture that I took off the Google location http://g.co/maps/thcu6 that mp31 posted on post number 8.

reidzer · 14-02-2012 02:38PM

converted footpath cycle lanes do not work in practice!

kenmc · 14-02-2012 03:05PM

rich.d.berry wrote: »

It seems you're wrong and that Google managed to capture one of these rare events. Whether any cleaning actually took place with that brush is debatable though.

Yes, that is a screen capture that I took off the Google location http://g.co/maps/thcu6 that mp31 posted on post number 8.

I know it's not a definitive source, but I can't see any signs indicating that the "cycle track" in that area is legally signed as such, using streetview. It's possible that the signage has been put in place since the street-view car mapped the area, but unless it has, then the cyclist actually had no choice but to use the bus lane, as otherwise he would have been cycling on a footpath.

Can anyone else clarify if that section is a legally signed cycle track?

trad · 14-02-2012 03:08PM

Any word of the injured cyclist?

Max Power1 · 14-02-2012 03:11PM

The cyclist probably cycled through a red light, without looking.

seamus · 14-02-2012 03:14PM

Max Power1 wrote: »

The cyclist probably cycled through a red light, without looking.

No doubt he wasn't wearing a helmet or hi-vis either, and was listening to his iPod.

Dermot Illogical · 14-02-2012 03:17PM

seamus wrote: »

No doubt he wasn't wearing a helmet or hi-vis either, and was listening to his iPod.

While plotting to evade paying road tax.

Wheely GR8 · 14-02-2012 03:20PM

Following the rules of the road ,the gaurd at the scene should have been doing his job and prevented the driver from using the bus lane.

Cyclist injured in accident on N4 on Lucan bypass heading west

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